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Hate EA and C&C? They ruined our beloved Westwood and C&C, you say?


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#1 Alex06

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Posted Friday, 16 December 2011 - 05:55 PM

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This message is direct to all those whining, posting hate comments towards EA, accusing them of ruining C&C (or your childhood) and constantly arguing that they should focus on Generals 2 instead of C&C Tiberium Alliances, I can tell you, for fact, that you do not understand how this industry works at all. Shame on you for making such accusatory messages and threats towards EA.

EA Phenomic, who is developing C&C Tiberium Alliances, is located inside Germany. Whereas EA BioWare Victory has studios in Los Angeles, Austin (Texas) and Shanghai. BioWare Victory used to be EA Victory Games and now is partially composed of what used to be EA Los Angeles, which worked on C&C3, RA3 and C&C4. (The teams that worked on each game were not the exact same people, nor were they in the same positions) The EA Los Angeles studio was composed of teams from three different studios; EA Pacific - which started out as Westwood Pacific, and was in charge of Red Alert 2 and Generals, DreamWorks Interactive and the original Westwood studio. A large part of the team at the original Westwood studio set in Las Vegas formed a studio under the name “Petroglyph Games”, and is not affiliated with Electronic Arts (EA Games). The rest of the team moved to EALA.

BioWare Victory is doing Generals 2 and is, in a way, the spiritual successor of the studio(s) that originally worked on C&C games, and is in charge of the series. There were also a few restructuring events where they replaced good portions of the teams in the EALA studio. As such, one could now say there is very little if anyone left from the very first team that worked on a C&C, which may well be true. That is often the case in the gaming industry. Despite that, it doesn't usually stop games from being proper sequels to other games. Fortunately, Jon Van Caneghem and Ray Muzyka, who are in charge of the franchise now, have mentioned in interviews that they were fans of the original C&C games and hope to return the C&C franchise to glory.

EA Phenomic does not have the tools or knowledge to help with Generals 2. Additionally, they are a totally different studio. EA is merely a publisher. BioWare Victory and Phenomic are two different studios that are contracted with the same publisher to make games. That's ALL there is to it. EA Phenomic will never produce or release a C&C5, reboot the Tiberium series or remake a C&C4 or even C&C3. They are not the studio for that - that's BioWare Victory now, whereas it was EA Los Angeles before. EALA has mostly been re-focused on the Medal Honor franchise, but there are still studios/offices/teams for BioWare Victory in LA. Whether that is in the same studio is not known, but still highly probable.

EA Phenomic is also simply developing Tiberium Alliances as a browser game that doesn't require Facebook nor Origin for players who have time on their hands to enjoy it. When you are on break at work or you are traveling, you can play this game. It requires you only to log-in and play. Other popular franchises also have such types of games; Dragon Age and Assassin's Creed also have browser games and the biased negative comments seen about the developers, publishers and the franchises are absent with those games, when compared to C&C, which seems to show that the hatred against EA, C&C and Tiberium Alliances is merely part of some sort of incorrect, pre-conceived notions. Tiberium Alliances also doubles as a way to expand the franchise and have it reach more players and thus, perhaps even bring more options for fans to enjoy the franchise if they want, without having to necessarily play the game to uncover more of the main plots in the respective franchise. It is essentially free candy. Simply hating on EA for giving you free candy instead of a specific box of candies is irrelevant and even arrogant, because the act is meant as a gesture of generosity. There is no obligation for EA to give anyone any kind free candy.

EA cannot "focus" on Generals, as they are a publisher and cannot develop a game nor ship German employees from Germany who've only worked on browser games to LA to work on a feature-complete RTS. A new Tiberium game will come eventually.

C&C: Tiberium Alliances is a purely free-to-play browser game. It has no story and is not tied to any Tiberium game, nor the events in their plot lines, despite being based off of C&C3 with some elements of C&C4. It is not a remake of C&C3, C&C4 or a reboot or sequel of any game. There is no plot and Tiberium Alliances is not tied to the continuity or storyline of other C&C games.

The next real Tiberium game will come eventually, and will be made by BioWare Victory. If you have anything to say about it, feel free to join the forums over at www.commandandconquer.com and post your suggestions. That way, if you want a reboot, a remake of C&C4 or even of C&C3 to fix the Tiberium series, you can pay a visit to the forums and post in the Community Developer Area section. That's where the developers at BioWare Victory go to read suggestions, from the fans, for their games. They have confirmed that they will listen to their fans, and that is the reason behind the existence of the Community Developer Area sub-forum. They are already using some of the suggestions for Generals 2. The fact that the majority of C&C fans asked to see a sequel to the 2003 hit RTS “C&C: Generals”, is why we have a “C&C: Generals 2” to begin with.

In the case of BioWare Victory, it is not the BioWare we all know and love, AKA BioWare Edmonton, nor the developer of The Old Republic, AKA BioWare Austin. BioWare is a brand now, and the "BioWare" you're referring to is a BioWare studio in Edmonton that makes Dragon Age & Mass Effect. They also made Baldur's Gate and all those classic BioWare titles we all know and love. The BioWare brand is owned by Dr. Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk. These guys make sure the games offer the kind of quality BioWare is known for, as a brand, that storyline/campaign is always given some justice and respect in BioWare games, and that it is a quality experience in all areas.

I highly suggest doing some research before making such accusations as “This is not a BioWare game. BioWare is failing thanks to EA now.”, “Bring back Westwood!”, “Why are we getting this crap instead of a real C&C?”, “EA is messing with C&C again and trying to cash in with Tiberium Alliances, the next Tiberium game.” or “EA is destroying C&C.” These Wikipedia links should help you understand what I’ve been trying to communicate you:

http://en.wikipedia....estwood_Studios
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare
http://en.wikipedia..../EA_Los_Angeles
http://en.wikipedia....etroglyph_Games
http://en.wikipedia....BioWare_Victory

I will also add that C&C4 was a free-to-play game known as C&C Arena that EA, as a publisher, forced their RTS team inside their Los Angeles studio to turn into a full product. As a result, the small development team that was created to work on Kane's Wrath, went immediately into working on C&C4. Due to time and budget constraints, a lack of employee workforce, and EA forcing down the idea of having to sell an RTT competitive game as the next Tiberian game, C&C4 was released. The storyline was assembled from ideas that would go into a potential C&C4 and mostly the cancelled "Tiberium" Squad-based FPS. Though due to time constraints, not much could be arranged to make the game feel and play like a natural extension of Tiberium Wars, nor could the Scrin, the alien faction that was introduced in Tiberium Wars, be included into the game. This is the only time in which EA, as a publisher, may have had a real and actually negative impact on a C&C.

As for those quoting the glorious days of C&C at Westwood; They were not as glorious as you might think. Tiberian Sun, which was over-hyped and suffered from a long development time and constant delays, was saved by EA's buyout of Westwood Studios, which pushed the team to finish and release the game despite the one-year delay. Otherwise, the game would have been likely cancelled and Westwood disbanded, with only 2 C&C games ever seeing release: C&C 1: Tiberian Dawn and Red Alert 1. Westwood had already dug its grave financially, however, and ultimately, when Westwood tried to work on a sequel to Tiberian Sun, a Red Alert 2-based C&C Renegade type of game (which was cancelled because of DICE's rise and their upcoming Battlefield 1942 game being too similar, and Renegade's lack of global success) and a Tiberian MMORPG known as Continuum (which was cancelled because of being too risky and demanding of the small staff available), EA decided to pull the plug and focus all these divided teams to finish Generals and the Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth series rather than working on 4 or 5 different products at the same time. Ultimately, due to the financial issues Westwood did not try to fix, EA had to close down the studio and postpone Command & Conquer 3 for yet another few years. There were plans to work on Red Alert 3 back in 2004, but ultimately, the man in charge of the project, Mark Skaggs, who created Generals, left EA Pacific and it was probably decided that C&C3 was long overdue, that yet more staff were required for Battle for Middle Earth 2 and that the amount of staff and development time given for the Red Alert 3 project was not enough to see it to proper completion, which postponed the game's development. In the end, one could see that EA's buyout of Westwood may have saved the franchise, much like a fireman may have saved one's life from the fire, despite some bad times ahead for the survivor. Ultimately, what matters, is that the man survived and lived to see better times, which is parallel with C&C's history.

Finally, “C&C: Generals 2” is also an AAA title, meaning it is of great quality and budget, on par with games such as Mass Effect, Modern Warfare, StarCraft, Diablo, World of Warcraft and Battlefield. In the past, EA has usually released C&C games every year and a half, and the development time for Tiberium Wars and Red Alert 3 were somewhere around 11 and 9 months respectively (after announcement, which does not count any pre-production). Generals 2 has been under development since Jon Van Caneghem joined EA to direct the C&C franchise back in late 2009, and will release in 2013, meaning this game may take up 3 or 4 years to develop in total, pre-production included. That is the amount of development time Blizzard and BioWare are known for with their games. As such, good quality and can be expected for this upcoming game and any other future C&C titles.

With all of this said, I hope that the amount of negative, hatred-filled posts and comments directed towards EA that I’ve seen across the web shall fall considerably and that those who still do not like what they see simply move on. As for those who have faith in BioWare Victory and EA Games, I believe they shall not disappoint, as they certainly seem to have learned from EALA's mistakes with C&C4, as has EA.

Edited by Alex06, Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 05:17 PM.

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#2 Plokite_Wolf

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Posted Friday, 16 December 2011 - 05:59 PM

I saw your attempts to bring reason to the Tiberium Alliances Trailer comments section on Youtube. All that you say is true, but it's futile. Whiny n00bs will be whiny n00bs. All that can be done about it is... well, marking their posts as spam?
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#3 Alex06

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Posted Friday, 16 December 2011 - 07:03 PM

I saw your attempts to bring reason to the Tiberium Alliances Trailer comments section on Youtube. All that you say is true, but it's futile. Whiny n00bs will be whiny n00bs. All that can be done about it is... well, marking their posts as spam?

I guess. But the point ultimately was to get potential visitors NOT to get in-line with all the mindless haters, and give EA and the developers of the game some of the decency and respect they deserve. :P

As for this thread, I posted it per Sonic's request.

EDIT: I edited the post a bit. Added some information.

Edited by Alex06, Friday, 16 December 2011 - 08:26 PM.

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#4 Sonic

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 01:33 AM

I congratulate Alex06 for this post. Its long and detailed but its how things have panned out. And the more people who read it and understand there should be less of the bitching and moaning about what EA is doing with the franchise.

And yes I asked Alex06 to post this here, in the hope that more people get to read it.

With Generals 2 up next, Tiberium Alliances is an interesting side project. The franchise is in healthy and positive position moving forward.
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#5 Lord_Kane

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 01:34 AM

Alex06.

You deserve a medal for this.
I have seen you a few times on the official C&C forums and everytime I do.

Sanity and Logic follow in your wake

Thank you for posting this.

Edited by Lord_Kane, Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 01:38 AM.

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#6 Sonic

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 01:40 AM

You see this is the sort of post where you hit that little Posted Image button and rep +1 ;) (On Alex06's original post of course).
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#7 Lord_Kane

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 01:42 AM

You see this is the sort of post where you hit that little Posted Image button and rep +1 ;) (On Alex06's original post of course).


I did that after I posted my message I just wanted to add to the appreciation :)
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#8 [NE]Fobby[GEN]

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 01:53 AM

I will also add that C&C4 was a free-to-play game known as C&C Arena that EA, as a publisher, forced their RTS team inside their Los Angeles studio to turn into a full product. As a result, the small development team that was created to work on Kane's Wrath, went immediately into working on C&C4. Due to time and budget constraints, a lack of employee workforce, and EA forcing down the idea of having to sell an RTT competitive game as the next Tiberian game, C&C4 was released. The storyline was assembled from ideas that would go into a potential C&C4 and mostly the cancelled "Tiberium" Squad-based FPS. Though due to time constraints, not much could be arranged to make the game feel and play like a natural extension of Tiberium Wars, nor could the Scrin, the alien faction that was introduced in Tiberium Wars, be included into the game. This is the only time in which EA, as a publisher, may have had a real and actually negative impact on a C&C.


^ This is probably one of the major reasons why people don't like EA developing C&C games. I've had great experiences with employees of EALA over the past few years, and there's no doubt that they were a friendly, talented bunch that cared for what they were making, but there's still a higher level of suits in the multinational corporation that call the shots. The higher ups didn't have a problem laying off lots of workers from the U.S and outsource their work to "low budget countries" (Mexico, China). There's a lot of examples of contention between the developers and the business heads. When Red Alert 3 was originally announced years before it went into development, EA had given the original team 11 months to develop it, and they simply decided that it couldn't be done. Likewise, Tiberium was cancelled because of contentions between employees and people higher in the hierarchy that had less to do with the development of the game.

With C&C4, EA forced a skunkswork RTS model onto EALA. C&C4 also only had a 1 year development time, and several months before release, the EA corporate heads announced that most of the C&C team would be laid off. For reasons and others you mentioned, the "epic conclusion" to the Tiberian saga was the series' biggest flop. I don't blame the workers of course - if you gave them a bigger workforce, another 2 years of development time, and free reign in what RTS model they could use, then we could have potentially had an excellent game. But unlike quality developers like Blizzard and Bioware (we'll see what happens with Bioware now that it's a label), the business model between C&C3 and C&C4 was to pop out as many games as possible in a short amount of time, rather than take time to develop quality games that break the ice and please the fans.

Now I'm not at all "anti-EA", I think there's a lot of good things they did for the community (C&C3 was pretty good, Battlecast Primetime, Community Summits, Battlecast Primetime, good PR). My point is that the workers at EALA have always been ernest people trying to do their best for the community and make a living. But the suits in charge of EA as a corporation just saw everything in quarterly cost-benefit numbers, which has hurt the C&C name over the long run. In 1998, Westwood owned 6% of the PC market, and by the millenium, it was clear that they wanted to expand C&C to multiple genres and platforms. A lot of that initial distaste for EA came after they cancelled what looked like promising games (or concepts) like Tiberian Incursion, Renegade 2, and Continuum.

I believe they're already heading in a better direction though. Generals 2 was a good move, because its like starting fresh, with a fresh new engine as well. It's a good time to put away the Tiberian and Red Alert saga for now and see something that is totally unique to Bioware Victory. It also looks like they're going back to traditional base building. Starcraft 2 came out shortly after C&C4, and we were able to see the huge difference between the two games - SC2 was in development for several years, it was story driven, high quality, very balanced competitive, used what worked in the late 90s, and modernized. I think EA has learned. It looks like Generals 2 has been in development for some time, and won't be released until 2013, which means its development time has already been longer than the last few C&C games we've had. I think there's an effort now to live up to the Bioware name. How long will this effort last, I don't know, but I think Generals 2 will be the best game we've seen since Generals 1 at the very least.
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#9 Cyberman0

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 02:17 AM

So lets talk, Many will not remember me. I at one time hosted CNCNZ along with being a very old friend of Sonic. I have copies of CC1 & 2, RA 1 & 2 & 3, TS, Generals, Hell I have renegade and I even a copy of Sole Survivor, if anyone can remember that far back. Needless to say I have a lot of nostalgia and love for the C&C series as a whole.

I am not going to talk about Westwood & EA purchase. Nor my opinions of EA in general. What I will say is I would love to see the C&C series return to what it should be, however I will not be holding my breath. I have continued to buy all of the C&C titles except for the last one. I checked it out, the controls alone where enough to make me not want to play it. That right there is a shame. I look at other games like Starcraft and they not only "Stayed True" to the series, but hit it out of the park on the last incarnation. I will give them another chance to bring the C&C series back in my eyes, but if it is going to be a AAA title they better nail it. Staying true to form for people that love or care about old series is very important, and I don't know what kind of drugs the last devs where on but they failed, hard. If they can't take a better overall of the theme / series beyond this next time, they may as well scrap it all together. It hurts me to say that however, the fact that the series that is soo old and still going is a testament to the fans. Kudos to everyone who is a die hard C&C fan. I hope that they do well, only time will tell. The fact that Bioware is involved gives me a spark of hope.

Keep chugging people, You have my old thanks..

-Cyberman0 (Formerly of Westwood Underground)
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#10 gben

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 06:38 AM

It's a shame that this title needs to live up to the BIOWARE name and not the C&C name... and I'm a little nervous that this comes under that Bioware umbrella rather than a tried and true developer in the genre... but Bioware does have a much better current track record for Q&A. So I'm positive and enthusiastic about Gen2.

It seems this time EA has made some good choices for a change.

The biggest problem with Alex's post is that it has too many words in it, and the attention span and intelligence of the people the post it was directed too means it won't get read let alone understood.

As they say...
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#11 Doctor Destiny

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 09:40 AM

The franchise is in healthy and positive position moving forward.

Moving forward is what pisses some fans off, especially those who cling to Westwood like a five year old kid to a ratty old blanket. They don't want to move forward; they want the same garbage cut, repackaged and regurgitated for every iteration of the series. Seems like the ones who whine the most just want Tiberian Sun over and over and over again in a new engine with the same old stagnant gameplay mechanics we've seen since 1995. The diehard "Westwood forever" C&C fans are like any fan base of a series that's probably run a little too long: they're obstinate and impossible to please, no matter what you do. I tend to ignore the "Westwood forever" crew since they're just in it to ruin the experience for everyone else. God forbid anyone actually enjoys Tiberium Wars or Red Alert 3. Sheesh, heaven help anyone who likes Tiberium Twilight. The old 'fanbase' is a joke, living in 1999 instead of 2011.
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#12 Sonic

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 12:57 PM

-Cyberman0 (Formerly of Westwood Underground)


Hey good to see you pop here after so many years Cyberman0. We had some great times back in the old days with the Westwood Underground.

The biggest problem with Alex's post is that it has too many words in it, and the attention span and intelligence of the people the post it was directed too means it won't get read let alone understood.


That's what someone said on our Facebook page, http://www.facebook....154477751323046, to which I replied....

To much to read. No offence but that's one of the reasons why the C&C Community is out of touch and misinformed.


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#13 Alex06

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

Glad to see some of you have read and posted replies.

@Lord_Kane - Why, thank you, kind sir!

@[NE]Fobby[GEN] - Thanks for expanding on that. I didn't do it nearly as well as you did. The C&C4 team did well with what they were given, and it's a real shame EA tried to force them into this direction. I even recall some of the developers, at release, did a live interview on Xfire, where they pretty much admitted it wasn't their choice and that ultimately, they even decided to write an ending to the series as to avoid EA from ruining the series by turning it into some kind of RTT and milking it. That was sad to hear, especially from a developer. I would've personally much rather have Tiberium than what we ended up with. That game was apparently just starting to show some promise when it was cancelled. And again, EA is to blame for hiring "10 managers for every developer", as quoted from the comments section of an article about the game's cancellation. Most of the employees who worked on the game went on to post there and revealed that there were too many managers going against each others' decisions and EA was constantly hiring people with no real idea of what the game's direction should be. But I think EA is willing to give C&C a chance, which is something we can't say for 2001-2002's EA, which cancelled Renegade 2 to instead fund Battlefield 1942, delayed C&C3 (which ultimately changed direction completely) and the Continuum MMORPG (which may have made millions and turn Westwood into what Blizzard is today).

@Cyberman0 - I think I remember your username. It's an honor to have you read this and even reply to it. I believe, as you've mentioned, that because this is an AAA title attached to the BioWare brand, I'm positive it will turn out at least decent, if not fantastic, actually.

@Plokite_Wolf @gben @Doctor Destiny - I agree with you three, that crowd is hard to please and lives indeed in the past, and I do reckon that they are probably not going to read this, but I'm sure that if someone out there reads it, and changes their behavior to a more mature one, I'll feel like this will have achieved something, at least.

Also, these so-called "fans" are not even that old. Most of them are under 21, which means they were children when growing up and playing C&C. Whereas I do fit in there, too, I'm not filled with hatred and anti-EA comments. Most of these people seem to act like children. No one would ever talk or behave in such manner in real-life. I am willing to bet that if most of these people met the developers of a new C&C, they would barely utter a single negative comment, if any. And it's ridiculous to see this kind of hatred, and in such large manner. Do they not take their death threats seriously? If I saw anyone threaten anyone with death, I'd take it seriously. Why would it be so acceptable and unrepresentative of the person's view if it is on the internet? Why do people let themselves go in such childish manners?

@Sonic - Feel free to add this to the articles section if you'd like! I recall reading in the CNCNZ news that there was a lack of articles. Perhaps you could put this one up. :P

If you need me to modify it in any way, though, before it can be posted in that section, feel free to tell me what needs editing!

Also, I've modified the first post with 2 more lines. Nothing major if you've already read it - It's probably not worth re-reading it. It was merely in case this could be linked to from other places for people to read.
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#14 Doctor Destiny

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Posted Saturday, 17 December 2011 - 10:02 PM

Also, these so-called "fans" are not even that old. Most of them are under 21, which means they were children when growing up and playing C&C. Whereas I do fit in there, too, I'm not filled with hatred and anti-EA comments. Most of these people seem to act like children. No one would ever talk or behave in such manner in real-life. I am willing to bet that if most of these people met the developers of a new C&C, they would barely utter a single negative comment, if any. And it's ridiculous to see this kind of hatred, and in such large manner. Do they not take their death threats seriously? If I saw anyone threaten anyone with death, I'd take it seriously. Why would it be so acceptable and unrepresentative of the person's view if it is on the internet? Why do people let themselves go in such childish manners?

When I say old I don't mean that literally. I mean the crew that started C&C with Tiberian Dawn or Red Alert as their first game. I'm probably one of the actual older crew out there and we're few and far between (I know there are older fans out there than I am). However, age doesn't mean anything when on the Internet and even an otherwise intelligent adult can turn into a babbling cretin at a moment's notice. However, my point was that this is the crew that doesn't want to move forward anywhere in the series and it's fairly annoying to say the least. Why ruin everyone else's good time because you're stuck on Tiberian Sun as the "holy grail of C&C"? Honestly, Tiberian Sun is easily Westwood's worst C&C game so I just don't understand why people cling to it so much. It's not even that good, but that's just me.

Admittedly, my first experience with C&C wasn't until 1998 or so when I played the first one on the Nintendo 64, but I started with Tiberian Dawn and I've enjoyed every game in the series up to Tiberian Twilight. Even though I started later than most, I've still enjoyed the direction C&C took with RA2, Generals, Tiberium Wars and even Red Alert 3. I even give Tiberian Twilight credit for trying to move C&C away from its formulaic roots. PROTIP: This is a good thing. It's just unfortunate that the game was so underwhelming in every aspect that it will never really see any acclaim. I know I'm not the only one in that 'somewhat older' C&C crew who feels this way and it just seems like the old fans are out to destroy what they once held so dear. Just makes no sense to me.

Really. Embrace the changes. Games don't stay the same forever and try to enjoy what EA has produced so far. Take the games as they are, one by one instead of trying to make a package deal out of everything. You might find yourself with more enjoyment.
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#15 Mighty BOB!

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Posted Sunday, 18 December 2011 - 01:41 AM

Lol, are people screaming that Tiberium Alliances is destroying the franchise now? I haven't been paying attention to the news since C&C's soul died years ago as far as I'm concerned.
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WOL nick: migtybob  

We are living in a post-common sense society.

Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.


#16 zocom7

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Posted Sunday, 18 December 2011 - 02:12 AM

Although I do agree with most of the facts that Alex06 said, the only comment I would say is this: Westwood is the past whereas EA and Bioware are the future.

The only parts that EALA did successfully that Westwood couldn't do back then to make a good C&C game was the AI and better multiplayer. The AI in C&C3 through C&C4 were significantly improved with minimal bugs.
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#17 Doctor Destiny

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Posted Sunday, 18 December 2011 - 02:41 AM

Right. Westwood is the past. They're not part of the equation anymore and thank god. Did you see what they had planned for C&C3? I thought this was sci-fi, not a Marvel comic.
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#18 Nmenth

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Posted Sunday, 18 December 2011 - 02:57 AM

Nothing I've seen from Westwood's C&C3 looked like a Marvel comic, I'm not sure what you're talking about...

It also seems like rather than being an EA basher, you are being a Westwood basher. The former is no better, but also no worse than the latter.
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#19 Doctor Destiny

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Posted Sunday, 18 December 2011 - 05:41 AM

I'm not a Westwood basher per se (except in the case of Tiberian Sun), but some of their ideas weren't very good and I point out bad ideas. Hell, I don't like some things EA did for TW and RA3 so it's not exclusive to whichever company I favor more (PROTIP: neither). It's just... Westwood ideas for Tiberian Incursion (or whatever it was to be called) were really bad. If you don't know what I mean by "Marvel comic", then you haven't seen what I've seen and I am not the first person to make that comparison. Also, you can't also sit back and say "Yuri being an acolyte of Kane who time traveled" isn't a really stupid idea (PROTIP: It's a stupid idea).
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#20 Alex06

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Posted Sunday, 18 December 2011 - 09:20 AM

Actually, Destiny, those "Forgotten turning into X-men", "The Tacitus is from Martians who were destroyed by the Scrin" and "Yuri and his psi-corps are part of Nod" were all just random ideas that were thrown around.

As if a developer planning the story for a new Generals, threw around an idea and asked "What if in 10 years, India nukes the world?" It's nothing more than part of a brainstorm session. It was probably written up as canon by someone who had no idea how to fill a plot hole, so they filled it with, well, filler or in this case, random brainstorming, without really questioning the logic of it and how it fits into the universe. This is a reason why I find so much fan fiction is terrible. It feels as those fan writers never go past this phase when they are writing their fan fiction.

Cypher of PlanetCNC even mentioned how ridiculous it was to the developers. Those were merely ideas that were thrown around in pre-production phase to get an idea of how the lore is to evolve. Nothing more. All those ideas from C&C3 had A LOT of opposition in the development team. Adam Isgreen, who mentioned these ideas, was simply remembering things vaguely and was probably not a part of the main writing team. (IE he was just an additional writer that helped along) C&C3: Incursion, didn't make it far. There were 4 different directions, the latter of which is TW as we know it today. All 3 directions were "put on hold" in the pre-production phase. All they had assembled were "tech demos" of the game, which is exactly what we've seen. It's the earliest pre-alpha state you could imagine. Some of it might not even be rendered on the actual game engine, instead being rendered on another game's engine or inside 3D Studio Max or Maya. That's why there isn't much concept art for specific units, environments and structures for Incursion to go around.
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