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10 Years of C&C 3: Tiberium Wars

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46 minutes ago, Traymen said:

For me, it sounds like gibberish for followers in some sect. 

 

A sect like Nod maybe?

 

Quote

In the last cutscene for Nod in TS, Kane is launching a missile which transforms Earth into Tiberium field. So he had enough resources to do so. The only - feasible - reason why he doesn't launch the rocket could be the GDI air-defence system around the world. After taking down GDI - with its high command - there's literally nothing to stop him. But then again, if all he need is to blow up sufficient quantity of Tiberium, why does he bother with rocket, especially if he's - according to dossier - superintelligent? 

 

I think I fail to see your point here.

Tiberium leads to some kind of explosion if there is enough on a planet - thats how the Scrin detect if a planet is ready for harvesting. And its not a minor event - one mission in KW results in a explosion that turns much of Australia into a Tiberium wasteland, but that wasnt enough.

 

In TS, his plan was to use the rocket to turn the planet into Tiberium, how else would have he triggered the scrin? There was no other way to get an eplosion large enough/spread the tiberium fast enough and as long as the Philadelphia existed, he had no chance to launch the rocket.

Later, with the discovery of liquid Tiberium, he decided to use a planet based bomb (maybe because turning the planet into tiberium might kill most of his own troops). However, the only was to trigger the bomb is a blast from the ion cannon, hence the whole temple prime charade to get Boyle to use the Ion Cannon.

 

 

Again, there are 15 years between the Scrin Towers appearing and Kane using the TCN to acess them. Its entire possible that Kane had planned to capture one of the towers while its active, but GDIs attack on the Relay Node made Nod unable to use them. Nod recaptured the Taciutus by 2049 and it takes years before Kane comes up with the TCN.

For me, it seems the TCN is a workaround to get acess to the towers and not part of Kanes initial plan. Maybe Nod needed a decade to reverse engineer the towers and understand how to acess them.

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17 hours ago, Stygs said:

Tiberium leads to some kind of explosion if there is enough on a planet - thats how the Scrin detect if a planet is ready for harvesting. And its not a minor event - one mission in KW results in a explosion that turns much of Australia into a Tiberium wasteland, but that wasnt enough.

 
 

 

Nope. 

Tiberium, as such, doesn't have explosive properties. Otherwise, it couldn't be harvested. Even Liquid Tiberium isn't explosive because it needs ignition. If Scrins are in some kind of slumber between Tiberium explosions, what if Tiberium lands on a planet without lifeform at all? 

 

17 hours ago, Stygs said:

 

In TS, his plan was to use the rocket to turn the planet into Tiberium, how else would have he triggered the scrin? There was no other way to get an eplosion large enough/spread the tiberium fast enough and as long as the Philadelphia existed, he had no chance to launch the rocket.

 
 

 

Philadelphia was just a high-command space station. The only reason why Kane doesn't launch his rocket could be some air-defence system deployed around Pyramid or its capability of targeting hostile projectile. 

 

17 hours ago, Stygs said:

Later, with the discovery of liquid Tiberium, he decided to use a planet based bomb (maybe because turning the planet into tiberium might kill most of his own troops). However, the only was to trigger the bomb is a blast from the ion cannon, hence the whole temple prime charade to get Boyle to use the Ion Cannon.

 

 
 

 

From what I understand he didn't need Ion Cannon at all. Any igniter would work. The Ion Cannon shot was just a way to blame GDI for causing natural catastrophe, but did he really needed someone to take responsibility for it? He was the most hated man in the world so such PR wouldn't help him that much. After all, he started three world wars so such action wouldn't improve his rating.

 

17 hours ago, Stygs said:

Again, there are 15 years between the Scrin Towers appearing and Kane using the TCN to acess them. Its entire possible that Kane had planned to capture one of the towers while its active, but GDIs attack on the Relay Node made Nod unable to use them. Nod recaptured the Taciutus by 2049 and it takes years before Kane comes up with the TCN.

 
 

 

You're not getting the point. 

1. For last three wars, he was trying to get attention from Scrins. 

2. He knew that to ascend he'll need some kind of stargate. 

3. The Tacitus, which he had most of the time, contained info about TCN to synch and reconnect stargate (if for some reason it'll get disconnected).

 

All I'm trying to say for last few posts is, that Kane had to build TCN around the world in a number needed to synch with stargate once Scrins will attack the planet. The wars declared by him were useless and could've been omitted. 

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2 minutes ago, Traymen said:

Nope. 

Tiberium, as such, doesn't have explosive properties. Otherwise, it couldn't be harvested.

The exact mechanism of the natural tiberium explosion isn't really known to us, since it never happened due to Kane's interference. However, the tiberium does in fact explode, that is the signal the aliens use to inform them when a planet is ready to harvest.

 

6 minutes ago, Traymen said:

From what I understand he didn't need Ion Cannon at all. Any igniter would work.

I'd probably need to play to games again to confirm, but I'm pretty sure it was specifically stated he needed the Ion Cannon to do it.

 

14 minutes ago, Traymen said:

For last three wars, he was trying to get attention from Scrins.

17 minutes ago, Traymen said:

The wars declared by him were useless and could've been omitted.

No, he was making preparations toward getting attention from the Scrin. He got their attention exactly when he intended to.

 

15 minutes ago, Traymen said:

The Tacitus, which he had most of the time, contained info about TCN to synch and reconnect stargate

I don't think so. I am fairly certain the TCN was invented by Kane, based on Scrin technology, it was not designed by the Scrin.

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20 minutes ago, Traymen said:

Tiberium, as such, doesn't have explosive properties.

 

Ever heard of Tiberian Sun-era blue Tiberium?

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1 hour ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

Ever heard of Tiberian Sun-era blue Tiberium?

 

According to C&C Wiki: 

"It is highly combustible and unstable. It detonates violently when brought into contact with fire or other explosives." 

 

Does blue Tiberium explode itself or needs fire? You see, there are several types of explosives and some of them need contact with fire where some need other explosive (such as TNT). The blue Tiberium is weak explosive and it is similar reagent to pile of sulfur, charcoal and potassium nitrate. 

 

1 hour ago, Nmenth said:

The exact mechanism of the natural tiberium explosion isn't really known to us, since it never happened due to Kane's interference. However, the tiberium does in fact explode, that is the signal the aliens use to inform them when a planet is ready to harvest.

 
 
 
 
 

 

None of Tiberium types explode itself. 

 

1 hour ago, Nmenth said:

I'd probably need to play to games again to confirm, but I'm pretty sure it was specifically stated he needed the Ion Cannon to do it.

 

He didn't. 

He could use World Altering Missle. 

 

1 hour ago, Nmenth said:

No, he was making preparations toward getting attention from the Scrin. He got their attention exactly when he intended to.

 

So how did he prepared himself after three lost wars? Because even when Scrins attack the planet, he's unable to get to stargate quickly enough to "ascend". It looks more likely that he didn't have had a plan at all or thought that somehow he'll figure out how to get to it before GDI. 

 

He finally "ascends" when GDI does not give a damn about Tacitus and build TCN all over the world, because: "Kane says so". 

 

1 hour ago, Nmenth said:

I don't think so. I am fairly certain the TCN was invented by Kane, based on Scrin technology, it was not designed by the Scrin.

 

How do You know that? 

The TCN are raised once Kane brings Tacitus to GDI HQ. So on the one hand, Kane tells GDI that this device will cleanse the world from Tiberium, while on the other he knows the true purpose of it. 

 

It would be impossible to design such building without knowledge how stargate works. However, if he knew that he didn't need Tacitus at all, the three previous wars were even more meaningless, because all he had to do was to wait until Tiberium will be a threat to humankind, come to GDI HQ and show them the solution - TCN.

 

 

Edited by Traymen
Some typos
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14 minutes ago, Traymen said:

Does blue Tiberium explode itself or needs fire?

 

Shoot anything at it. Or, better yet, load a harvester with it and pretend it's a demolition truck.

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1 hour ago, Traymen said:

None of Tiberium types explode itself.

 

Yes it does. The TW Scrin database clearly states that the Scrin harvesting forces were lured there by a Liquid Tiberium explosion - otherwise the Scrin never knew when a planet is ready. The Scrin campagin basicly starts with the Scrin waking up after the explosion:

 

 

Quote

 

.. Prediction after Ichor LQ detonation: Ichor deposits at expected levels on entire planetary surface and no indigenous population. (Probability of self-destruction or extinction due to Ichor Growth at 97%+).

... Reality after Ichor LQ detonation: Ichor deposits immature, active level IV/V civilisations inhabit most of planetary surface, weapons technology factor at 17.4.

 

They did not exspect to find any remaining civilisation. That kinda implies the Tiberium explosion should occur naturally.

In fact, one they figure out that the explosion was intentionally created, they ignore the harvesting aspect and want to find out more about the reasons. It seems that a civilisation creating a LT detonation is a reallly unusual event.

 

Quote

... Hypothesis: Indigenous species detonated Ichor LQ device to lure harvesting operations.

Why was this done? How was this done? What are the implications for the mission? What are the implications for the Overlord?

... Investigation at Ichor LQ Detonation site overrides all other priorities.

 

1 hour ago, Traymen said:

He didn't. 

He could use World Altering Missle. 

 

Why? Changing the world would kill probably kill both GDI and Nod forces, making them to weak to fight the Scrin. With the Liquid Tib Detonation, only a small part of his forces were wasted.

 

3 hours ago, Traymen said:

From what I understand he didn't need Ion Cannon at all. Any igniter would work.

 

I am afraid you missed some key points during the campaign:

 

Kane hat the bomb, but he couldnt detonate it. He NEEDED the Ion Cannon as it was the only way to generate enough energy to initiate a large enough LT reaction. Thats why he intentionally weakens his forces - the Prime Temple was a bait for the cannon.

 

1 hour ago, Traymen said:

How do You know that? 

 

Because you are right - if the TCN was part of his plans from the beginning, then his plans make no sense. But if we assume that Kane needed to adapt his plans and create the TCN to activate the Tower, it fits right in.

Keep in mind that the TT Scrin Tower was captured by Nod in TW, so it makes sense that Nod tried to find a way to activate it.

 

And no, the TCN has nothing to to with stargates. As far as I know, the TCN is used to power the Scin Tower and thats pretty much it. The Scrin were tiberium based lifeforms, so Kane needed the TCN to mimick the way the Scrin powered the Tower.

AFAIK, there nothing that hints that the TCN directly interacts with the portals.

Its the players eye implant that finally activates the portal in TT.

Edited by Stygs

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5 hours ago, Stygs said:

They did not exspect to find any remaining civilisation. That kinda implies the Tiberium explosion should occur naturally.

In fact, one they figure out that the explosion was intentionally created, they ignore the harvesting aspect and want to find out more about the reasons. It seems that a civilisation creating a LT detonation is a reallly unusual event.

 
 
 
 

 

That's even more convoluted.

So why they don't fully contaminate planet with Tiberium in the first place, huh? It's not like it's impossible - Kane with "our" technology built a missile just for this purpose...

 

5 hours ago, Stygs said:

Why? Changing the world would kill probably kill both GDI and Nod forces, making them to weak to fight the Scrin. With the Liquid Tib Detonation, only a small part of his forces were wasted.

 
 
 
 

 

According to C&C Wiki, CABAL was designed to hold the Scrins for Kane. Messiah didn't give a damn about Brotherhood nor people. In TW it seems that he even don't bother with Nod anymore...

 

5 hours ago, Stygs said:

Kane hat the bomb, but he couldnt detonate it. He NEEDED the Ion Cannon as it was the only way to generate enough energy to initiate a large enough LT reaction. Thats why he intentionally weakens his forces - the Prime Temple was a bait for the cannon.

 
 
 
 

 

No. 

There is no such statement that Ion Cannon is necessary for this operation. Just bigger detonator, but then again, he HAD A MASSIVE MISSILE used to blow up Philadelphia. I guess that would do enough blast for "call home".

 

5 hours ago, Stygs said:

Because you are right - if the TCN was part of his plans from the beginning, then his plans make no sense. But if we assume that Kane needed to adapt his plans and create the TCN to activate the Tower, it fits right in.

Keep in mind that the TT Scrin Tower was captured by Nod in TW, so it makes sense that Nod tried to fi

 
 
 
 

 

Inconsistence. 

If in some dossier we are told that Kane is some kind of genius, I bet he would have some plan "B", "C" up to "Z". But in all four games, Kane is totally different from his own predecessors. There are like 4 Kane's and each of them comes with totally different goals.

 

P.S. I had and answer to Your last paragraph but I deleted it (not intentionally) so hold up for tomorrow. 

 

EDIT: 

Thank You @Lauren for encouraging me in this discussion and for such formidable involvement in this thread. It is so mature... Take care of Yourself!

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33 minutes ago, Traymen said:

According to C&C Wiki, CABAL was designed to hold the Scrins for Kane.

 

As told by Nmenth, and hereby confirmed by me as the ACTUAL ADMINISTRATOR of the C&C Wiki: don't take information from there as entirely factual. There's a lot of utter crap I didn't get to yet.

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13 hours ago, Traymen said:

That's even more convoluted.

So why they don't fully contaminate planet with Tiberium in the first place, huh? It's not like it's impossible - Kane with "our" technology built a missile just for this purpose...

 

Why bother? The Scrin seem to have hundreds of harvest operations and probably have a steady supply of Tiberium. Why build a missile if you can just fling a bit of Tiberium in the generel direction of any potential planet/civiliation that might become a problem in the future and then come back 50 years later to harvest it.

 

Also, noone really knows what Kanes missile in TS really did. Did it turn the whole word into Tiberium? Did it mimic a LT explosion? Did it just spread Tiberium into the atmoshpere so the whole word becomes infected?

 

13 hours ago, Traymen said:

According to C&C Wiki, CABAL was designed to hold the Scrins for Kane. Messiah didn't give a damn about Brotherhood nor people. In TW it seems that he even don't bother with Nod anymore...

 

Do you have any ingame proof for that (or anything you claimed so far)? Because the wiki has a lot of fan storys and I certainly dont remeber reading anything like that.

 

13 hours ago, Traymen said:

No. 

There is no such statement that Ion Cannon is necessary for this operation. Just bigger detonator, but then again, he HAD A MASSIVE MISSILE used to blow up Philadelphia. I guess that would do enough blast for "call home".

 

Whatever you guessed, the cinematic clearly says that Nod has no way to trigger a explosion big enough. So the massive missile was apparently not enough or they would have used that. After all, using their own nuke would have been the most obvious choice. The cinematic with the advisor would have been totally pointless if Nod could use just another detonator and be done with it.

 

The entire first half of the TW campaign is based on the idea that Kane realizes he needs the Ion Cannon against to trigger the bomb. Thats why the whole "it need the right catalyst" thing is even brought up during a GDI mission briefing. Thats why Kane interupts Boyles press conference before the mission and taunts about how "Nod reaps what it has sawn" and how people should "look to the sky" - he is taunting Boyle to use the Ion Cannon and Boyle fell for it.

Thats why people are packing stuff up during one of Kanes mission briefings in TW - he evacuating the temple.

Kane has found a way to trigger the explosion, blame GDI for it and then reappar as the messiah. Again.

 

EDIT:

In fact, Kane outright says that in KW "Only the Ion Cannon could generate enough energy":

 

What exactly was the point of this whole discussion again? Kinda losing the focus here...

 

 

Edit2:

 

 Also, if Tratos deciphered parts of Tacitus along with Kane when he was a refugee, why didn't he mention - in many conversations with GDI - that somewhere, out there are... ALIENS!? Has he forgotten to mention that? I won't even bother with Tacitus thread in TW because it seems that GDI doesn't give a damn about this thing at all.

 

Maybe because Aliens are kinda a given, considering that both Tiberium and the Tacitus are from space.

TW also mentions that the Tacitus contained a warning about the Aliens.

 

Edited by Stygs

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9 hours ago, Traymen said:

None of Tiberium types explode itself. 

That is simply wrong. In the Firestorm manual, it says the blue tiberium structures (a.k.a. vinifera monoliths; the blue equivalent to blossom trees) spread their crystals by exploding. Within game, they just kind of shimmer and a few crystals fall off of them, but in the lore, they are capable of spontaneously exploding with enough force to wipe out an entire convoy of troops.

 

And I'll say again, we don't know what mechanism the natural tiberium explosion might use, since it never happened. You can't argue against something that we know was going to happen using (incorrect) logic based on only what we had seen so far.

 

9 hours ago, Traymen said:

How do You know that? 

I don't know anything for certain, as I said a long time ago:

On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 8:28 AM, Nmenth said:

This is as I understand it, which due to intentionally unanswered questions, changing canon, and perhaps some oversights, may be utterly wrong.

However, I at least am providing lore-based evidence for my ideas, whereas you seem to be saying you are right because you are right.

 

4 hours ago, Traymen said:

he HAD A MASSIVE MISSILE used to blow up Philadelphia. I guess that would do enough blast for "call home".

The explosion that called the Scrin was 40 times bigger than the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated (Tsar Bomba). This missile that destroyed Philadelphia was a firecracker by comparison.

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14 hours ago, Stygs said:

Why bother? The Scrin seem to have hundreds of harvest operations and probably have a steady supply of Tiberium. Why build a missile if you can just fling a bit of Tiberium in the generel direction of any potential planet/civiliation that might become a problem in the future and then come back 50 years later to harvest it.

 
 
 

Or some guy build TCN to hamper the spread of Tiberium. There's little sense.

14 hours ago, Stygs said:

Also, noone really knows what Kanes missile in TS really did. Did it turn the whole word into Tiberium? Did it mimic a LT explosion? Did it just spread Tiberium into the atmoshpere so the whole word becomes infected?

4
 

It supposed to change carbon-based life into Tiberium-based. So it's kinda strange that after 2nd Tiberium War the goal changed from infecting everybody with Tiberium, to just "call home". 

14 hours ago, Stygs said:

Whatever you guessed, the cinematic clearly says that Nod has no way to trigger a explosion big enough. So the massive missile was apparently not enough or they would have used that. After all, using their own nuke would have been the most obvious choice. The cinematic with the advisor would have been totally pointless if Nod could use just another detonator and be done with it.

 
 

The destruction of Philadelphia was visible from Earth. My bet here is there was sufficient quantity of explosive on that rocket.

14 hours ago, Stygs said:

Do you have any ingame proof for that (or anything you claimed so far)? Because the wiki has a lot of fan storys and I certainly dont remeber reading anything like that.

The problem is: Noone knows why CABAL was introduced in the first place. He seems to know something, but don't share it with anyone and when there's an opportunity to do so, he go mental. 

14 hours ago, Stygs said:

The entire first half of the TW campaign is based on the idea that Kane realizes he needs the Ion Cannon against to trigger the bomb. Thats why the whole "it need the right catalyst" thing is even brought up during a GDI mission briefing. Thats why Kane interupts Boyles press conference before the mission and taunts about how "Nod reaps what it has sawn" and how people should "look to the sky" - he is taunting Boyle to use the Ion Cannon and Boyle fell for it.

 
 

It seems like it, but it's not. If he foresaw the need of Ion Cannon, why does he bother with that guy report at all? Like, why it's even prepared? If he knows that the only sufficient igniter is Ion Cannon, why does he order to make the report about it? For whom? He doesn't need to read it if he knows what's he doing but it seems he didn't know. 

15 hours ago, Stygs said:

What exactly was the point of this whole discussion again? Kinda losing the focus here...

The misleading goals of Kane? If he awaits the Scrins he looks kinda unprepared when they invade Earth. If he plans to use Ion Cannon, why he ask for the report about sufficient igniter? What sense does it make?

IMHO, the plot gaps are filled offhand. It's not like the story evolves with each chapter of Tiberium saga - they're totally different stories. In TD you have evil-genius, in TS a genocidal maniac, in TW smartass who outsmart himself on each point, and in TT just a guy who wants to "call home". The more I read and watch about Tiberium the more I believe in each game we see his clone.

15 hours ago, Stygs said:

TW also mentions that the Tacitus contained a warning about the Aliens.

THIS. 

The ship belonged to Scrins, right? So they wrote a warning in the "database" to warn lifeforms on some planet, that one day they'll come and bring Armageddon upon them? This is stupid, m'kay? Like what kind of strategic purpose it serves to warn the future prey about the invasion? You want to make surprise attack to go as smoothly as possible. Not to create problems You could avoid, amirite? 

13 hours ago, Nmenth said:

That is simply wrong. In the Firestorm manual, it says the blue tiberium structures (a.k.a. vinifera monoliths; the blue equivalent to blossom trees) spread their crystals by exploding. Within game, they just kind of shimmer and a few crystals fall off of them, but in the lore, they are capable of spontaneously exploding with enough force to wipe out an entire convoy of troops.

 

So what does belong to canon and not? 

In game blue crystals don't explode by themselves. They need an igniter (usually a thunder or ricochet). We are told that they may explode but even in TW we don't see self-ignited explosions of blue Tiberium. 

13 hours ago, Nmenth said:

And I'll say again, we don't know what mechanism the natural tiberium explosion might use, since it never happened. You can't argue against something that we know was going to happen using (incorrect) logic based on only what we had seen so far.

2

We are not told anything about properties of Tiberium. Just it's toxic, possible to harvest and it spread quickly. It's not like we can read the dr. Mobius research... 

13 hours ago, Nmenth said:

However, I at least am providing lore-based evidence for my ideas, whereas you seem to be saying you are right because you are right.

Where did I've stated that I'm right, huh?

I'm just saying that in the comparison between TW and TT, the second game is much more comprehensible. Even though it's the most shallow part of the series at least it hold to Kane idea what TCN actually is... 

13 hours ago, Nmenth said:

The explosion that called the Scrin was 40 times bigger than the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated (Tsar Bomba). This missile that destroyed Philadelphia was a firecracker by comparison.

 

Who told You this comparison? Like where are the numbers proving that? 

We don't know the kinetic power of Ion Cannon nor A-bombs presented in the game. From what I see in gameplay the Ion Cannon is as strong as a nuclear missile. 

17 hours ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

As told by Nmenth, and hereby confirmed by me as the ACTUAL ADMINISTRATOR of the C&C Wiki: don't take information from there as entirely factual. There's a lot of utter crap I didn't get to yet.

 

So maybe at least establish what belong to canon and what not? Because at this moment any statement there can be uploaded. It just need an external link.

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7 hours ago, Traymen said:

It seems like it, but it's not. If he foresaw the need of Ion Cannon, why does he bother with that guy report at all? Like, why it's even prepared?

Well, judging by the report I would guess because the Ion Cannon was not intended to be the detonater - but as the bomb was build, it became clear that there was no other way to trigger it. The ingame events take place over weeks if not month, so Kane had time to come up with a new plan.

Or maybe that advisor guy was just looking for a plan B.

7 hours ago, Traymen said:

The ship belonged to Scrins, right? So they wrote a warning in the "database" to warn lifeforms on some planet, that one day they'll come and bring Armageddon upon them? This is stupid, m'kay? Like what kind of strategic purpose it serves to warn the future prey about the invasion? You want to make surprise attack to go as smoothly as possible. Not to create problems You could avoid, amirite? 

No. Just no.

The TS ship is called a scrin ship, but it was most likely build by Nod during TD (mentioned by Kane during the TS mission briefing) based on the Tacitus. The Tacitus on the other hand has been on earth for centuries - thats why you have to get one part out of an old temple in Firestorm.

The Tacitus was also NOT made by the Scrin. Just like the Scrin knew about Kane, the Tacitus knew about the Tiberium and its connection to the Scrin, but it was not created by the Scrin.

From the TW IDB, "Alien Origins, Connections to the Tacitus"

Quote

GDI Science Teams have been gathering every possible bit of transmitted data and physical evidence about the Aliens since the moment of invasion. Data Analysis of alien transmissions has indicated some connection between the Tacitus recovered from Kane and the Invaders.

The transmissions recorded from the Invasion Force seem to be patterned in a similar way to the data structure in the Tacitus. This leads us to believe that the Invaders are the Scrin, or perhaps some faction thereof. It is clear upon closer examination that this invasion force demonstrates acute differences from the source of the Tacitus in dialect and physical form. Perhaps they shared some distant connection, or there was some ancient contact between their cultures?

One transmission we decoded using our most advanced decryption computers indicated alien chatter regarding another alien race they had previously encountered. We were unable to translate the word for the other alien race, but the encryption computer returned the terms brother, ascended, enemy and Scrin. This casts some confusion on the nature of the invaders, as they share a multitude of attributes with what we have come to know as the Scrin. It seems unlikely that this is the very same alien race that brought the Tacitus to Earth, but the connection is undeniable.

 

7 hours ago, Traymen said:

Who told You this comparison? Like where are the numbers proving that? 

In the game. Please stop constantly questioning things that are outright stated ingame:

Ten times greater than a 200 MT nuke - so its 2000 MT. The Tsar bomb is about 50-60 MT. So yeah, 40 times the most powerfull weapon ever.

7 hours ago, Traymen said:

So what does belong to canon and not? 

Games and manuals, for starters. I would even say that manuals take precedence as some details ingame might be changed for balance/gameplay (for example, blue Tib in TW doenst explode because the maps were made with it in mind - if you could simply blow it up, it would screw over the map balance)

7 hours ago, Traymen said:

It's not like the story evolves with each chapter of Tiberium saga - they're totally different stories.

Well, ever part was written by somebody else, but the idea that Kane wants to use Tiberium to call the Scrin and leave Earth is still visible throughout the games.

And I have to admit, the TW story is better than I remembered it (but the TT one is even worse).

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55 minutes ago, Stygs said:

The Tacitus was also NOT made by the Scrin.

That is something I did not know... very interesting.

55 minutes ago, Stygs said:

The Tsar bomb is about 50-60 MT.

A lot of sources give the yield as 57 Mt, including Wikipedia. They are wrong. 57 Mt is based on American measurements, and since the whole point of the Tsar Bomba test was to demonstrate Soviet power, the Soviets were happy to promote the American over-estimate and silence their own, more accurate, measurements of 50 Mt. After the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, Russia no longer had motive to keep holding onto the inaccurate claim of 57 Mt and has since only ever used the actual yield of 50 Mt. Nevertheless, due to 30 years of both sides tossing around the higher number, it became very ingrained. But still wrong.

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1 hour ago, Stygs said:

Games and manuals, for starters. I would even say that manuals take precedence as some details ingame might be changed for balance/gameplay (for example, blue Tib in TW doenst explode because the maps were made with it in mind - if you could simply blow it up, it would screw over the map balance)

According to the manuals, the Tiberian Sun Attack Buggy never existed and in The First Decade, Yuri Attack Dogs are a thing ;)

Manuals were sometimes made before the game was finalized, IIRC, so games definitely take precedence.

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11 minutes ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

so games definitely take precedence.

I would agree that in many cases they do. In this case, comparing the vinifera monolith that in-game is an indestructible terrain object only used to regrow a blue tiberium field does not take precedence over backstory lore in the same section of the same manual where we have gotten a large portion of everything we know about non-standard tiberium and tiberium lifeforms.

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4 hours ago, Nmenth said:

I would agree that in many cases they do. In this case, comparing the vinifera monolith that in-game is an indestructible terrain object only used to regrow a blue tiberium field does not take precedence over backstory lore in the same section of the same manual where we have gotten a large portion of everything we know about non-standard tiberium and tiberium lifeforms.

The Firestorm manual reads so:

Quote

The second and relatively newest forms of Tiberium are blue crystals. Blue Tiberium has two growth stages; the first appears much like the green variety except for its colour – that is, crystalline growth spreading across the ground. Much like its green counterpart, blue Tiberium leeches minerals from the ground, but is able to do so in larger concentrations. These greater concentrations have the unfortunate side effect of making blue Tiberium highly volatile and explosive, making harvesting the crystals extremely dangerous. Blue Tiberium spreads by self-replication, but not nearly as fast as Green Tiberium.

A recent discovery has revealed another form of blue Tiberium. It is believed that this blue Tiberium forms larger crystalline structures that tower over the landscape and it is far more dangerous than its green counterpart. It is highly unstable and prone to explode, spreading its stored mass of crystals over the entire area quickly seeding the nearby landscape. We have witnessed whole convoys of troops decimated by a chain-reaction. The exact function of these blue monoliths is unknown, but it is a theory that it may be a new method for the distribution of Tiberium.

I see no contradiction with the gameplay, and no reason for it not to be canon. However, if something in the game caused the manual info to be wrong, then the game takes precedence.

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5 hours ago, Stygs said:

The TS ship is called a scrin ship, but it was most likely build by Nod during TD (mentioned by Kane during the TS mission briefing) based on the Tacitus. The Tacitus on the other hand has been on earth for centuries - thats why you have to get one part out of an old temple in Firestorm.

 
 
 
 

The ship was held under Pyramid Prime and Tacitus was stored on its deck - that's Nod campaign version. On the other hand, You have GDI campaign which contradicts the previous sentence. 

5 hours ago, Stygs said:

The Tacitus was also NOT made by the Scrin. Just like the Scrin knew about Kane, the Tacitus knew about the Tiberium and its connection to the Scrin, but it was not created by the Scrin.

 
 
 
 

You don't know that. It just said to be ancient, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be part of Scrin ship crashed thousands of years B.C. Nonetheless, the Tacitus was on Scrin ship and it just happens that it contain TCN blueprints which sync with Scrin Threshold... stargate. 

"Using ancient data contained in the Tacitus, Kane devised a way to control the spread of Tiberium and harness it safely... but he needed GDI resources to make it happen." 

~TT Manual 

5 hours ago, Stygs said:

Ten times greater than a 200 MT nuke - so its 2000 MT. The Tsar bomb is about 50-60 MT. So yeah, 40 times the most powerfull weapon ever.

The temperature gathered in in such explosion would evaporate atmosphere... but I get the point. 

Still, GDI Ion Cannon does the same damage as Nod's A-bomb (in-game at least). 

5 hours ago, Stygs said:

Games and manuals, for starters. I would even say that manuals take precedence as some details ingame might be changed for balance/gameplay (for example, blue Tib in TW doenst explode because the maps were made with it in mind - if you could simply blow it up, it would screw over the map balance)

 
 
2

You don't do such thing. 

5 hours ago, Stygs said:

Well, ever part was written by somebody else, but the idea that Kane wants to use Tiberium to call the Scrin and leave Earth is still visible throughout the games.

And I have to admit, the TW story is better than I remembered it (but the TT one is even worse).

 
 
 

What tells You that he want to "call home" in TD and TS?

EDIT: 

@Lauren as always does a great job in this thread. Thank You. 

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34 minutes ago, Traymen said:

The temperature gathered in in such explosion would evaporate atmosphere

Nonsensical gibberish. Evaporation is the transition from liquid phase to gas. 1% of the atmosphere is liquid or frozen water on average. If that's what you really meant to say, it is an utterly pointless statement to make, a candle produces enough heat to "evaporate atmosphere."

I'll instead assume you are referencing the stupid myth concerning nuclear explosions igniting the atmosphere that was dispelled prior to the Trinity test in 1945. In the calculations they did, they discovered that no temperature would be able to cause a sustained chain reaction in air molecules and ignite the atmosphere.

Putting aside even that, we have no idea how much heat is generated in a tiberium explosion. It is likely any explosion of that scale would release a tremendous amount of heat energy, but we do not know that since tiberium is fictional.

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2 hours ago, Traymen said:
5 hours ago, Stygs said:
 

The ship was held under Pyramid Prime and Tacitus was stored on its deck - that's Nod campaign version. On the other hand, You have GDI campaign which contradicts the previous sentence. 

No it doesnt. The events are pretty much the same in both campaigns, you just dont see some of the events during the GDI campaign as GDI thinks its alien.

2 hours ago, Traymen said:

You don't know that. It just said to be ancient, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be part of Scrin ship crashed thousands of years B.C.

The IDB quote pretty much said that the Tacitus wasn made by the Scrin. Or rather, that the TW Scrin arnt the same Scrin that made the Tacitus.

Maybe it crashed with a ship or maybe it got to earth the same way as Kane.

Ands thats pretty much all we knew about the Tacitus maker as Westwood never got the chance to expand its backstory and EA didnt care to much about it.

2 hours ago, Traymen said:

You don't do such thing. 

I got no idea wht your refering to with that statement.

2 hours ago, Traymen said:

Nonetheless, the Tacitus was on Scrin ship and it just happens that it contain TCN blueprints which sync with Scrin Threshold... stargate. 

Again, I doubt the TCN has anything to do with the portals - maybe the Tacitus just contains some informations to undo the Tiberium infestation and turn in to power.

Its also doubtful the Tacitus contains blueprints to anything. It most likely just a collection of datas and formulas and some background storys regarding Tiberium.

2 hours ago, Traymen said:

What tells You that he want to "call home" in TD and TS?

He wanted to infest Earth with Tiberium, with is kinda required to call home (or was required until Liquid Tiberium was weaponized).

That and the fact that the TS lead designer pretty much confired it long ago in an interview.

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Wasn't really used, but maybe the basic idea carried over:

The story bible of TS said the Tacitus was created by aliens on Mars before they got wiped out by the Scrin in the hope that other races don't fall like they did.

 

Edit: Tray: I'm downvoting your posts because all I can do is facepalm while reading them. Using the knowledge gained from the Tacitus isn't the same as just stumbling over some contained blueprints for example. That's where "devised a way" comes into play. English, do you even speak it? Most of the issues here seem to be comprehension issues on your side.

Edited by Lauren
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On 4/6/2017 at 5:26 PM, Lauren said:

Wasn't really used, but maybe the basic idea carried over:

The story bible of TS said the Tacitus was created by aliens on Mars before they got wiped out by the Scrin in the hope that other races don't fall like they did.

Oh my god that sounds infinetly more awesome than the lame ass story we ended up with....:(

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