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GeneralJist

Tberium Secrets Deciversery: Tiberium Wars, GDC Recap and ASI Internal Alpha

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Structures and units are just black in black without any chance to make out details. The bad lighting on the map doesn't help.

Get a PC witch can record the game without stuttering all over the place. The game is from 10 years ago.

Would be annoying to play if every match you have to zoom in to have a playable view and angle.

Construction looks really buggy.

What are the weird black spots on the map?

Why the **** do you show off the new army by loosing against a medium ai?

 

Haven't looked at much of it, the stutter is just unbearable.

Edited by Lauren
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And why is the video letter- and pillowboxed? This won't sell the mod.

 

Nevertheless, colour me interested - but not based on this trailer.

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Additionally both infantry (which look like the same black blob) basically have the same attack. The lightning is just a little bigger for one. This isn't readable.

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Question: What makes this mod special among the others? 

Question: Why to mod older game instead of newer with better engine (TW)? 

Question: Why would anyone play so dragging match? 

Question: Why do you think such base-building is essential for strategy? 

 

I simply don't follow the idea of developing mod based on outdated interface and battle management. Like, what is Your goal here? Implementing classic C&C base-management? Do you think it applies to modern gamer, who wants to enter the battle in first minutes of match? Did it passed the test of time? From what i see - it didn't. 

 

I understand Your feelings and reminiscence of C&C, but if you want to succeed and gather some attention You have to propose something fresh - not reheated pork. 

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I wished GeneralJist went with the Unity 3D Engine and have a team to create new fan-based C&C game from scratch.

 

So far only one Chinese mod team is using the Unity 3D Engine for Generals 2.

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4 hours ago, Traymen said:

Do you think it applies to modern gamer, who wants to enter the battle in first minutes of match?

That's a loaded question right there. You are making the assumption that "modern gamers" only like fast-paced games. Just because modern games are being designed that way doesn't mean all modern gamers want them that way. I happen to prefer slower-paced RTSs myself, but then again, maybe I'm not a modern gamer, maybe I'm a luddite gamer.

 

I'm also not sure why what game engine they are modding with is important. Mods for far older games are still active and popular.

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So far the only unique thing about this mod that I've seen is the infantry losing power, but alas, that doesn't exactly make much sense to me.

 

What is their power source, and how is a base power issue causing the infantry units to lose power with the base?  It seems pretty inneficient for an Artificial Intelligence to need to send both orders and power to the each of the most basic combat units on the field.  I feel it would make more sense if a lack of power to the base made it impossible to transmit commands, though I'm not sure how much you can push the C&C 3 engine.

 

Active Fielded? Is that what the EVA was saying the whole time?  It was annoyingly hard to understand, and once I figured out exactly what it did mean, it grew rather annoying just to have to listen to it.

 

I have no comments on the map design as it was obviously just a test map, however, for the sake of showmanship, I agree with some of the other comments.  You should be trying to show off your best highlights, not intentionally compounding a number of poor visuals.  It seems like when making this video, you managed to combine poor camera angles, poor lighting, poor rendering, and a poorly made map.  Even though it's just a demonstration, it distracts heavily from the content you're actually trying to show off.

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16 hours ago, Lauren said:

Why the **** do you show off the new army by loosing against a medium ai?

 

The original video was a 50 GB AVI, which we realized would take forever to upload, upon final conversion, it went down to 4GB.  Doubtless the quality of the video suffered.

 

7 hours ago, TaxOwlbear said:

And why is the video letter- and pillowboxed? This won't sell the mod.

What does that mean?

 

4 hours ago, Lauren said:

Additionally both infantry (which look like the same black blob) basically have the same attack. The lightning is just a little bigger for one. This isn't readable.

 

It is he same infantry unit.

It has a toggle like the firehawk that allows it to sift between anti infantry/ vehicle or aircraft, it has a cooldown while switching, where it can't attack.

 

4 hours ago, Traymen said:

Question: What makes this mod special among the others? 

 

This is an entirely new faction, of which a small slice has been seen.

4 hours ago, Traymen said:

Question: Why to mod older game instead of newer with better engine (TW)? 

Because, we started in summer of 2011, before modern engines supported RTS features.

 

4 hours ago, Traymen said:

Question: Why would anyone play so dragging match? 

Encase it wasn't obvious, the pace was slowed  for demonstration purposes.

4 hours ago, Traymen said:

Question: Why do you think such base-building is essential for strategy? 

So....

Your telling me, after all this time, and the stink over TT, you don't want classic base building?

 

(Even if that was true for most, this is an Alpha, we can't just change core mechanics like that, this is a Dozer system)

 

4 hours ago, Traymen said:

I understand Your feelings and reminiscence of C&C, but if you want to succeed and gather some attention You have to propose something fresh - not reheated pork. 

 

If you think that is reheated pork, you haven't looked at anything  else we've done.

We are also currently ranked 27/ of ~29K.

 

It's the beginning of a proof of concept, a small taste of what we have, there is a full faction to show off. (which we will roll out when polished.)

3 hours ago, PurpleGaga27 said:

I wished GeneralJist went with the Unity 3D Engine and have a team to create new fan-based C&C game from scratch.

 

I'm sorry, but getting  volunteers to make a "full game" from scratch, with no possibility of  any income what so ever, in a modern engine, is way too much work.

 

Think of it like this, all the maps and UI, and online networking, the controls, all of it, would need to be made.

 

Most indie's have a hard enough time doing that for their own original projects.

 

We do have plans for future goals in EU4, all of our art assets are already optimized, if we ever went that way.

 

1 hour ago, Zee Hypnotist said:

I have no comments on the map design as it was obviously just a test map, however, for the sake of showmanship, I agree with some of the other comments.  You should be trying to show off your best highlights, not intentionally compounding a number of poor visuals.  It seems like when making this video, you managed to combine poor camera angles, poor lighting, poor rendering, and a poorly made map.  Even though it's just a demonstration, it distracts heavily from the content you're actually trying to show off.

 

Fair enough,

 

These factors were not all fully considered when making this demo, we will look into a better presentation next time.

 

I was restricted as to what I could show, since the director didn't want me to show of things that were not completely done. 

 

The other thing is, that's a Dozer, using the dozer mechanic from Generals.

 

As to why the unit lose power, because all ASI cost power, and run off the grid, a low power state makes the unit sless effective, and locks all special abilities.

 

 

1 hour ago, Zee Hypnotist said:

Active Fielded? Is that what the EVA was saying the whole time?  It was annoyingly hard to understand, and once I figured out exactly what it did mean, it grew rather annoying just to have to listen to it.

oh,

 

That's our ASI version of "unit ready"

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So in all these years you only got a few infantry units and buildings to the point you can show them while even they have placeholder art and sound? Dayum.

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13 hours ago, Nmenth said:

That's a loaded question right there. You are making the assumption that "modern gamers" only like fast-paced games. Just because modern games are being designed that way doesn't mean all modern gamers want them that way. I happen to prefer slower-paced RTSs myself, but then again, maybe I'm not a modern gamer, maybe I'm a luddite gamer.

 

I'm also not sure why what game engine they are modding with is important. Mods for far older games are still active and popular.

 
 
 

 

To first paragraph: 

From what i see in gaming industry, the more dynamic games is, the more audience it gathers. For example MOBA games, clashes starts in very first seconds of the game and have very big audience. On the other hand, Grand Strategy Games (such as Hearts of Iron) have devoted fans, but the scene is very small. Games takes weeks before any action, and many players drop the multiplayer before anything happens. In the middle of those two are C&C and StarCraft which mix up those two concepts. In some field one is better than the other.

 

I agree - good mod can be build over old game, but it has to have a replayability which will hold viewers a bit longer than usual mod. 

 

11 hours ago, GeneralJist said:

This is an entirely new faction, of which a small slice has been seen.

Because, we started in summer of 2011, before modern engines supported RTS features.

 

 

Hold on there! If this is main feature i have no more question. 

 

11 hours ago, GeneralJist said:

 

Encase it wasn't obvious, the pace was slowed  for demonstration purposes.

So....

Your telling me, after all this time, and the stink over TT, you don't want classic base building?

 

 

Trailer is an advertising factor. If it doesn't focus viewer attention product won't last for too long. I watched like 5 minutes of this "match" and was too bored to stay any longer. I guess like most of the viewers. Such trailer should show "best of the best" aspect of product to build some hype and attention. 

 

Frankly, i don't know if i want classic base-building. I don't know did it stood the test of time. Especially if we look - let's say - StarCraft 2 which have smaller fan-base in comparision to other Blizzard IP, Overwatch. Relic had some idea to enhance classic RTS with morale and strategic points located over the map. Maybe this is the way which C&C should follow. I don't know, but reinventing old, clunky base-building with even more out-dated resource gathering isn't the call i would like to pick up.

 

The main question here is: Do you want to build a mod just for C&C fans, or drag new offering something fresh? 

11 hours ago, GeneralJist said:
 
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2 hours ago, Traymen said:

the more dynamic games is, the more audience it gathers. For example MOBA games, clashes starts in very first seconds of the game and have very big audience.

Sounds to me like you judge the quality of games solely by their competitive multiplayer appeal.

 

Not only is that a very narrow standard for games in general, it is a flawed way of looking at a mod from the start. The vast majority of mods will never achieve that, regardless their quality.

 

If you think a mod has to reach the lofty goal of becoming the next DotA to earn its right to exist, you have set your expectations far too high.

 

If you are going to critique this mod, judge it for what it is rather than what incredibly unrealistic goal you think it should aim for.

 

 

It seems a bandwagon has been created for bashing this mod, and some people were eager to leap aboard without a clear understanding of why they did so. The creation of this bandwagon may have been made easier by a certain level of excessive pride and boasting, but ignorant bashing like an enraged bull with no clear understanding of what or why it is destroying is just foolishness.

 

From my perspective, Lauren and Zee Hypnotist are the only ones who have made rational arguments, though perhaps in a more hostile way than is truly necessary. Everyone else is a flailing bull making a mess.

 

Maybe this mod needs a more humble spokesperson to prevent this level of assault against it, but mods and their creators should be encouraged by the community and given constructive feedback. Mods are part of the life blood keeping the community alive. Here, I see an unwarranted battle waged for little more reason than the mod doesn't appear to be as good as someone has hyped it to be, and the feedback is hardly what I would call constructive.

 

I do not personally have any interest in this mod, but I see no justification in destroying it any more than any other mod.

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15 hours ago, GeneralJist said:

What does that mean?

 

Letterboxing refers to the black bars on a video that is run in a 16:9 windows (in case of Youtube) but doesn't have that aspect ratio. Pillarboxing is the same, except the black bars are on the sides. The footage should have neither and make use of the entire 16:9 window.

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1 hour ago, Nmenth said:

Sounds to me like you judge the quality of games solely by their competitive multiplayer appeal.

 

Not only is that a very narrow standard for games in general, it is a flawed way of looking at a mod from the start. The vast majority of mods will never achieve that, regardless their quality.

 

If you think a mod has to reach the lofty goal of becoming the next DotA to earn its right to exist, you have set your expectations far too high.

 

If you are going to critique this mod, judge it for what it is rather than what incredibly unrealistic goal you think it should aim for.

 

 

It seems a bandwagon has been created for bashing this mod, and some people were eager to leap aboard without a clear understanding of why they did so. The creation of this bandwagon may have been made easier by a certain level of excessive pride and boasting, but ignorant bashing like an enraged bull with no clear understanding of what or why it is destroying is just foolishness.

 

From my perspective, Lauren and Zee Hypnotist are the only ones who have made rational arguments, though perhaps in a more hostile way than is truly necessary. Everyone else is a flailing bull making a mess.

 

Maybe this mod needs a more humble spokesperson to prevent this level of assault against it, but mods and their creators should be encouraged by the community and given constructive feedback. Mods are part of the life blood keeping the community alive. Here, I see an unwarranted battle waged for little more reason than the mod doesn't appear to be as good as someone has hyped it to be, and the feedback is hardly what I would call constructive.

 

I do not personally have any interest in this mod, but I see no justification in destroying it any more than any other mod.

 
 

 

So you're telling me that critics are unqualified to argue with developers, because they lack perspective, huh? Oh, excuse me but the mod is either good or not. The trailer sucks. There is nothing to defend here. It's unapealing and i don't need a degree in directing to say it. Person behind it have no idea how to make a promotion video. The 4:3 letterbox tells eveything. 

 

But let's say that just an marketing aspect, which can be omitted. Sure, if product is great - but in my opinion is not. It's just other mod for C&C with extra new faction. There is literally nothing new to check it and give to it a chance, because it looks like any other available at hand. 

 

When Icefrog started works on DotA he couldn't knew what it'll become in next years. He had a new perspective for an RTS, moved idea into development and now has nothing to do... except to count cash.

I wouldn't be so harsh towards this project if GeneralJist wouldn't be so cocky in other thread about future of C&C. If he really knows what players need - i want to see it. So far i only saw horrible trailer with bad editing and dragging gameplay. 

 

It didn't bought my attention. Sorry, happens. However, if someone is showing his work to wider public he must be ready for tough critique. The product have to defend itself or die miserably.

Edited by Traymen
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1 hour ago, Traymen said:

So you're telling me that critics are unqualified to argue with developers, because they lack perspective, huh?

No, not critics in general, it seems just you have unobtainable expectations.

 

1 hour ago, Traymen said:

It's just other mod for C&C with extra new faction. There is literally nothing new to check it and give to it a chance, because it looks like any other available at hand.

That's what it looks like to me too, but where we go with that observation greatly divides. I would give it the same chance I would give any other mod, because it looks to be just like every other mod. It not being unique does not equate to automatically being worthy of attack. Granted, (over)hyping a project is certainly fuel for a fire, but don't be a moth drawn into the fire.

 

1 hour ago, Traymen said:

The product have to defend itself or die miserably.

I would agree if this was a indie game. As it is a mod, I cannot. Mods do not need to defend themselves or meet any requirements because they are free and built by (usually) unprofessional fans. As long as a mod has any potential whatsoever, it should be encouraged to progress and improve, not be crushed simply because it isn't 'good enough' for your taste. Save the crushing for an overhyped game that the developers want you to actually pay for.

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3 hours ago, Nmenth said:

No, not critics in general, it seems just you have unobtainable expectations.

 

That's what it looks like to me too, but where we go with that observation greatly divides. I would give it the same chance I would give any other mod, because it looks to be just like every other mod. It not being unique does not equate to automatically being worthy of attack. Granted, (over)hyping a project is certainly fuel for a fire, but don't be a moth drawn into the fire.

 

I would agree if this was a indie game. As it is a mod, I cannot. Mods do not need to defend themselves or meet any requirements because they are free and built by (usually) unprofessional fans. As long as a mod has any potential whatsoever, it should be encouraged to progress and improve, not be crushed simply because it isn't 'good enough' for your taste. Save the crushing for an overhyped game that the developers want you to actually pay for.

 

 

But c'mon, at least agree he put the bar too high for himself. From what i understand he proclaimed his project as beacon for others to gather around it and build something new. Maybe even totally new game - i don't know i didn't had much time lately to follow news here. But putting this aside, if someone is so cocky about his work i may put some - maybe even exaggeerated - expectations. 

If it was any other mod for TW, i would say "Good luck" w/o any whining. But GeneralJist is the biggest enemy for himself, because he threw himself into the project which he can't deliver. It isn't any other mod, but THE MOD to move other modders to build something bigger. Especially, while he can't even sell his idea in the attached video i have some right to moan. 

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1 hour ago, Traymen said:

at least agree he put the bar too high for himself.

I don't think that is really relevant to what I am trying to get across. If he has overhyped it, that is on him, not the mod for failing to live up to his hype.

 

Again, were it a commercial game people forked over cash for, overhype is a serious problem.

 

1 hour ago, Traymen said:

i have some right to moan.

But where does this right to moan come from? Did you donate to the modders? Or did the hype imbue you with ecstatic dreams filled with hope and awe and then it not living up to those dreams filled you with depression and ruined your life?

 

Let me ask another question; what do you think bashing a mod accomplishes? If they were to cancel this mod right now, what would have been achieved? Will new life be breathed into a dying community by destroying one of its mods?

 

If the mod isn't as good as it could be, it should be encouraged to become better, not crushed under your heel. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but I am seeing very little of that here, and that is the only point I am trying to make.

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I've gotta agree with @Traymen here.  There's always news about many of the different mods that come, go, or stay, and whether it's a mod I like or not, I tend not to make any comments, especially criticizing ones, because I mean, come on, it's a work in progress, it's bound to improve, issues are bound to be fixed.

 

The only reason I've even put so much effort unnecessarily commenting and/or bashing this mod is because of how much effort GeneralJist has put into overselling his mod and himself.  He promotes deadlines that are unrealistic given the current state of the mod, he shows us examples of the mod that are well under par of other mods that have had the same number of years behind them, and all the while, he describes his mod in a manner that makes it sound like it is supposed to surpass all others, like it is the single greatest thing to happen in this community in recent years.

 

There's a huge difference between self-promotion and self-admiration.  And like you said, the mod should be encouraged to become better, which I agree, but I'm not going to sit here and act like we should ignore all the fluff that the mod team GeneralJist is spewing at the same time.

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8 minutes ago, Zee Hypnotist said:

The only reason I've even put so much effort unnecessarily commenting and/or bashing this mod

I wouldn't consider your comments to be bashing. As I said before, I think you were making rational arguments rather than mindless bashing.

 

9 minutes ago, Zee Hypnotist said:

all the fluff that the mod team GeneralJist is spewing

Your strikethrough is exactly the problem I am having with bashing the mod itself. You should be (and you were) critical of GeneralJist's attitude rather than the mod.

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9 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

I don't think that is really relevant to what I am trying to get across. If he has overhyped it, that is on him, not the mod for failing to live up to his hype.

 

Again, were it a commercial game people forked over cash for, overhype is a serious problem.

 

 

My point is, he is not trying to sell mod, but himself. In one of the other topics here, he portays himself as the only one listened by contemporary and former EA / Westwood employees. You have to have balls to say such thing. There are many other modders who just do their job without seeking wider recognition - and gains it anyway. Like mentioned here and there Mental Omega or Twisted Insurection.

 

34 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

But where does this right to moan come from? Did you donate to the modders? Or did the hype imbue you with ecstatic dreams filled with hope and awe and then it not living up to those dreams filled you with depression and ruined your life?

 

 

 

It's simple. 

If there is "The Guy" in group who tells the rest what to do - i may have some higher expectations from him, don't I? 

 

37 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

Let me ask another question; what do you think bashing a mod accomplishes? If they were to cancel this mod right now, what would have been achieved? Will new life be breathed into a dying community by destroying one of its mods?

 

 

He showed pre-alpha version for feedback, did he? 

Does it look for you in any way prepared for entry-evaluation? Does it look polished for wider audience? None of these - so i am bashing mod (and him) for sending such poor sample. 

 

41 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

If the mod isn't as good as it could be, it should be encouraged to become better, not crushed under your heel. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but I am seeing very little of that here, and that is the only point I am trying to make.

 

 

I get it. This point is valid, but not in this case. We are not talking about any other mod made by no one for everyone. GJ (and his ego) was so pumped over this project as some kind of "beacon" to others, that for him it became an elevator for recognition in corporate ranks and we - ordinary people - will push it to achieve his goal, because he knows what kind of game do we expect.

 

So, if he views himself as a messiah for C&C community, i want him to know how crucifixion looks like. That's all. 

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If you still find nothing wrong with pointlessly bashing a mod for something one of its team said by this point, I probably wouldn't convince you with anything else.

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15 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

If you still find nothing wrong with pointlessly bashing a mod for something one of its team said by this point, I probably wouldn't convince you with anything else.

 

Maybe you're right. Maybe i am too harsh, but that gives GJ a whole new field of options to surprise me - and not only me. 

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16 hours ago, Lauren said:

So in all these years you only got a few infantry units and buildings to the point you can show them while even they have placeholder art and sound? Dayum.

 

Sigh,

 

Are you so blinded by your own track record that you failed to put on your thinking cap? not critical thinking, just thinking?

 

Have you seem any of the other things that were posted on the page? Did you see any of the other pictures of aircraft, vehicles, structures?

Did you notice it was recorded in a replay? Maybe that cuts out in game music?

 

How can you bee so willfully ignorant?

You've lost all respect from me, and now I'll have to revoke your community invitation in recognition of your work.

 

3 hours ago, Zee Hypnotist said:

  He promotes deadlines that are unrealistic given the current state of the mod, he shows us examples of the mod that are well under par of other mods that have had the same number of years behind them, and all the while, he describes his mod in a manner that makes it sound like it is supposed to surpass all others, like it is the single greatest thing to happen in this community in recent years.

 

I genuinely don't understand,

How can people like you have so small imaginations?

How can you say that when you have no idea who are team is composed of, and what  has been clearly hinted at, but not shown?

 

Sure, the video only showed off a few things, sure it's not the entire faction, but how can you go around saying you have looked at it all, and judged it accordingly, if you didn't even finish the video?

 

This is in game footage, not a trailer.  (why is that so hard to comprehend?)

Perhaps we made a mistake in doing that, instead of a trailer,  but I seriously find your lack of imagination disturbing.

There are countless things that have not been shown, and that are not ready for "public" feedback, so we chose to show an extended game of just the things that are 100% done.

 

You guys should be happy this kind of behavior is allowed here, any other community, any other website, this kind of ignorant bashing would be shut down immediately.  Only in the C&C community folks!

 

2 hours ago, Traymen said:

My point is, he is not trying to sell mod, but himself. In one of the other topics here, he portays himself as the only one listened by contemporary and former EA / Westwood employees. You have to have balls to say such thing. There are many other modders who just do their job without seeking wider recognition - and gains it anyway. Like mentioned here and there Mental Omega or Twisted Insurection.

 

I never said that.

You are spinning what I said,

 

I said that  me and the other half of leadership were able to talk to some of these people at GDC, and that these people have interest in our work.

 

I may have got too excited after we got such a good reception, and so much respect by people in the industry.

 

Have any of those mods been to GDC? Have any of those mods made a fully original faction that has it's own original art style, lore, mechanics, design, etc.? Have any of them spent significant money on making sure their product is released  and their leadership is taken care of?

 

Congratulations, you cough me in the time that I was really proud of our work.  And not behind the scenes humble, which is my default. 

 

At least we have the balls to actually  do something about the death throws of this once great community. 

 

Do I really need to give you an entire pizza, instead of a single slice to prove there is a pizza in the oven that it came from?

 

Classic community, able to tell me what you don't want, but not able to articulate what you actually want.

 

And what if I decided I was trying to show off what my skills are? What if I was using this portfolio to get me a job in the industry?

(I will always live in die by my words and my actions, that is who I am, all  for public critique, hell, that is what happens when you are looking to start a business, questioned, critiqued, disrespected, put under the microscope for the smallest flaw/  weakness/ leverage?)

 

2 hours ago, Traymen said:

So, if he views himself as a messiah for C&C community, i want him to know how crucifixion looks like. That's all. 

 

Wow,

And I thought I had gone a little overboard...

 

Dude, you might want to get yourself checked out, by a priest or something, sounds like your channeling some next level ****.

 

If this was a normal community, a moderator would have you banned for that kind of  clear abusive and borderline threatening language.

 

If was a lesser person,I'd appeal to a "higher power"  and  claim your not making me feel safe....

 

Ye who  casts the 1st stone, right?

 

So, lets say I was, if, only if, I was trying to save the C&C community and brand, from both itself,and the years of mistreatment,  and poor business decisions, trying to save a franchise that everyone thought was dead, that everyone loved back in the day, and that everyone wants back, so much they are still going on about the franchise on community platforms, long after most reasonable fans have moved on. 

 

If I saw what we were doing, as having a significant hand in helping that along, in doing something, and actually trying to listen to the community, even ones that are being abusive an ignorant.  Hell, I'm not being paid for this...

 

Why am I still here, spending the time to defend myself and my project on a community forum, which is in the back alley of the internet?

 

If your going to try and crucify me, and my project, perhaps you should look at our statistics before you do:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/tiberium-secrets/stats

 

We're doing phenomenally for an unreleased product.

 

Doesn't it say something that we got the kind of attention and notoriety we did, before release?

 

The audacity of me and our project eh?

Edited by GeneralJist
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1 hour ago, jeffnz said:

ROFL the autism spectrum is off the charts!

 

 

If you're going to reply, at least add something of value, instead of just cracking a dumb joke.

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