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General Leang

24, torture and Iraq

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Soooooo...any new stories on the atrocities in Vietnam? We all know about the yuck stuff America did: executing villages and dumping them in graves, mutilating bodies to frighten the Vietcong, soldiers having their way with young girls who worked as spies. Is there fresh light to shed on the subject?

 

Or the issue of 24 and the claims soldiers in Iraq use it as inspiration for torture?

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"Illegal President" - wow that's a new term. Saracen you're literally the first and only person to use that term in my hearing/reading. But considering your anarchist pre-disposition I assume I can safely ignore the rhetoric. Yet I'm also surprised by Mina's outlandish predictions on the probable election of Obama. I think America is well past the Martin Luther King Days.

 

I wouldn't pick Obama, but the other guy isn't appealing either... lucky I don't have to make a choice between a rock and the hard place then.

 

What continues to surprise me is that in America, voting is optional.

You'd think the defacto leader of the free world would be elected on the TOTAL will of it's citizens, not just some.

 

(Props to you Leang for your serious discussion and staying on topic, and un-emotional!)

 

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I think the American president should get voted Euro Vision style!

Other nations get a vote too!

 

And because I'm being silly, I now wonder which imperialist puppet, the masked shah prefers to manipulate and goad into his devious will???

Edited by gben

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I took the advice Mick Gatto learnt as a boxer. You never let your opponent know you are hurt. You never throw a punch in anger. And you never never never blink.

 

In all honesty it does not pay to become emotionally involved, the simplest answer I can give for that is you lose your objectivity doing that. If you remember back in the day I used to howel down conspiracy theories. I am still prepared to do so, but on the other hand why go that route when you can reason out how you feel? For me and torture, what I said before; about how horrible it must be for some terrorist incident to take place and having to live with asking if you could have prevented it if you did more, very much mirrors my own. That does not mean I have to beat that opinion into everyone else, nor do I have to be closed to any idea put forward. As Sun Tzu once said,

 

"In the practical art of war, the best thing of all is to take the enemy's country whole and intact; to shatter and destroy it is not so good. So, too, it is better to recapture an army entire than to destroy it."

 

That practice is quickly becoming a lost art, as people seem intent on destroying their enemy rather than having them conquered intact.

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actually the term "illegal president" was floating around quite a lot after the election... and while i accept that the united states -has- advanced past the king days, it hasn't advanced that much. there is still racial tension and there are way way too many backward racists out there... my american friends have told me of gangs of KKK driving around in 4x4 with baseball bats and rifles, ready to hurt anything that gets in their way, in towns out in the wilderness... and american skinheads... whilst there aren't as many in the classical sense, a lot of them have advanced in their methods of preaching hate. instead of just collecting gang members and going round beating up people, now they create and promote white power bands. there are many racist music producing companies out there and they simply aim for kids who like hard rock or metal... subliminal messaging.

racists made up an extradordinarily large number of voters in america o.o and if someone they don't agree with gets votied in, they would act on it and sort out things... it's sad but true and this whole situation scares the bejesus out of me. i mean you expect to see a few religious extremists whereever you go, but this is a whole new level...

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To be driven to such obsession that they would destory themselves and others because of their hatred, over the color of somebody's skin, that is where madness lies. How many Americans do you know and would class as mad?

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How many Americans do you know and would class as mad?

It depends on what type of mad you should happen to refer to. Let's take a look shall we?

 

American Kids don't get angry mad, they just shoot people instead. Usually best done in schools before turning it on themselves.

 

American Adults don't get angry mad, they just sue everyone and anything they don't like.

 

American Kids Don't get loony mad, it's just their parents that tell them to believe it's God's will.

 

American Adults don't go loony mad, it's just their fault for believing in their Amendment rights.

 

All American's don't believe their mad. Hey, if George Bush can manage it then anyone can!

 

American Companies don't get mad, they just slap a DRM on it and claim full ownership!

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And on the other side of the pond there is a growing number of people who oppose religion, and yet act exactly in the same manner as what they criticise in order to show how much more moral they are, despite claiming their belief has no morality. Crazy is as crazy does perhaps? My point is if somebody is that worked up over such a small thing like skin color then perhaps they need to have a little talk. Like with a psychiatrist.

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It depends on what type of mad you should happen to refer to. Let's take a look shall we?

 

American Kids don't get angry mad, they just shoot people instead. Usually best done in schools before turning it on themselves.

 

American Adults don't get angry mad, they just sue everyone and anything they don't like.

 

American Kids Don't get loony mad, it's just their parents that tell them to believe it's God's will.

 

American Adults don't go loony mad, it's just their fault for believing in their Amendment rights.

 

All American's don't believe their mad. Hey, if George Bush can manage it then anyone can!

 

American Companies don't get mad, they just slap a DRM on it and claim full ownership!

Yet America is the most powerful nation in the world, and (as to our companies) makes the majority of games you play; obviously we're doing something right ;)

 

I'm not even going to bother answering those stereotypes one by one; they don't deserve an answer -_-

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i'm not talking about you guys though i'm talking about the majority. remember, the majority of any country are made up with people of low - average IQ's o.o and if you make them all believe heavily in a religion, chances are they will do anything to protect it. and sadly, if you do your research on skinheads, there are way too many people out there who believe in white power (same as in any country. it's just more subtle in america. and seeing as it's such a large country compared to the other english speaking countries, it has the most) according to recent data there are millions of neo-nazis out there. and all it takes is one nutcase with a high powered rifle who doesn't like the way things are going :\ all the truely great people get killed before their times... martin luther king, JFK, RFK, lennon o.o is it such a stretch to believe that if obama gets in power and starts doing amazing things, some nutball out there will cap him? it would be a change. a lot of people don't like change :\

 

and i'd quite happily **** off the uk just as much, but we're not discussing the uk right now o.o so don't think i'm favouring one over another. america is an amazing place, but until the majority get control of their beliefs i don't think i'd like to live there... ideally i'd like to live in a small town, but small towns are the places that people are most closely knit :\ i don't wanna be hated and bullied because i don't go to church... it's not really the people's fault, it's the media. they heavily influence people's minds... .-.;

 

but yah if we wanna go UK ripping, no problem. we've gone from being a global superpower and controlling half the world down to being a second rate power, still a superpower but always overlooked behind america. we take such pity on immigrants they get better states of living then the local born english. the law system is pretty much a mess, though just about livable. but our lifestyles are forced down because we have to respect the foreigners. what kind of country is it when you aren't allowed to wave the countries' flag without being arrested unless you have a really good reason :\ and the majority of white nationals in the uk are made up of chavs (wiggers. something along those lines) who offer no benefit to society in the slightest. there are very few intelligent good people left in the uk... half the intelligent people live in areas like devon and sneer down on anyone outside of their little social ring.

 

the government is trying to get all the people in the uk to have ID cards (which we would have to pay for) which include over 33 seperate questions about you, and have such things as retina scans and fingerprint scans. oh yes, i like to leave my fingers and eyes at home when i go shopping... and oh no, no-one is gonna steal my ID card and be able to gain more power over my bank accounts then i currently have >->;

 

believe me, i'm not racist. i'm just scared of extremists (be them muslim or christian. it works both ways) and i have a somewhat hatred angled towards the government for giving immigrants priority over nationals. i can understand when it's say, a polish medical student who wants to learn english and become a doctor to help people. but when it's something like a romanian person who has come in claiming to escape from certain death because they can't get a decent lifestyle there, then they get given a free house, credit card and car and scrounge off government benefits, then invite all their friends from their country to come stay with them... that is what i don't like. it happens all too often. and they don't try to learn english. so what happens? everyone else has to learn their language... they get first choice in housing and priority in hospitals :\ unless it's someone with money... of course the upper class beat all >.>

 

y'know fox hunting is banned here? the upper class do it anyway and the police can't stop them because the rich own such large areas of land, can bail themselves out of any arrests and they often give money to the police for them to turn the other cheek. what can one small police office do against a whole town of rich people when the police office only has half a dozen officers who are instructed to leave the rich alone because they pay for all the things that keep the station running :\

yah that's my lil rant for today xD; see it's not just america. i rant at everything XD

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lol, it's funny Mina. You oppose anarchy, and are scared of Anarchists. But you've ranted about half the things there that Anarchists oppose anyway. There's a Bittersweet irony about that. :P

 

the government is trying to get all the people in the uk to have ID cards (which we would have to pay for) which include over 33 seperate questions about you, and have such things as retina scans and fingerprint scans. oh yes, i like to leave my fingers and eyes at home when i go shopping... and oh no, no-one is gonna steal my ID card and be able to gain more power over my bank accounts then i currently have >->;

 

I'm not getting one. The Government can shove it up their ass! I don't care if I get arrested for refusing to get one. The ID card system is a conformist capitalist lie created to control the population. It's an invasion of our privacy! It's the fear of Terrorism that's making the idiotic population accept these cards with open arms! If you've ever watched the heavily conspiracy theorist movie Zeitgeist... this explains my beliefs behind the ID card system. Below is the clip I refer to, and the results of this chipped ID card could bring.

 

 

Scary eh? Who says we're not losing our rights, our freedom, our democracy?

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Yeah but if I get the chip... I'll never lose my car keys again!

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... i'mmmm gonna pass on watching the anarchy vids today. it's too early in the morning for propaganda >->; and sure i have minor issues with things the government does but that doesn't mean i agree with anarchy. not in the slightest. i just think they are approaching things the wrong way. if you're gonna go with a system that stores all your data, you might as well have a data chip installed under your skin. completely voluntary of course... but it would make your life so much easier. id cards are too easy to lose. all someone has to do is steal it from you and they have more information then you know about :\ and just so you know, without the government you wouldn't have any freedom or rights. and democracy is a political typeset just like anarchy claims to be. if you're living in anarchy there won't be democracy. and if there is no governmental country wide force looking out for you, how are you going to have freedom or rights? those would be taken away by the first person to come along who decides they can gain something from you. just admit you don't believe in -true- anarchy. because what you're following just isn't that... you're thinking of a perfect world where everything works right :\ so even if somehow your political power came into governmental control, something would happen to upset someone somewhere. that's the way life is. you can't please everyone. just make the best of what you've got and stop trying to "improve" life for everyone because it suits your agenda o.O

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ideally i'd like to live in a small town, but small towns are the places that people are most closely knit :\ i don't wanna be hated and bullied because i don't go to church... it's not really the people's fault, it's the media. they heavily influence people's minds... .-.;

I live in a small rural type town outside of a major metropolitan area and have had no problems with anyone because I'm not a church goer. Then again, I don't run around the town screaming atheism or agnosticism either. You'll find that most small towns are rather tolerant of your beliefs if you find the right one and don't make a big deal about theirs either. Maybe that's just in the northern half of the country though... the South still has some big time fanatics. And avoid Montana like the plague. Lotsa crazies there. o_o

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I just do not get that at all. I mean these people who shout down religion want all the freedoms and free passes they claim religion has, and then want to take them all away. Huh?

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I'm not getting one. The Government can shove it up their ass! I don't care if I get arrested for refusing to get one. The ID card system is a conformist capitalist lie created to control the population. It's an invasion of our privacy! It's the fear of Terrorism that's making the idiotic population accept these cards with open arms! If you've ever watched the heavily conspiracy theorist movie Zeitgeist... this explains my beliefs behind the ID card system. Below is the clip I refer to, and the results of this chipped ID card could bring.

It appears to me that you have a problem with Socialism and not Democracy.

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agreed. it was mainly the southern towns i was refering to with most of this stuff o.o the more north you get, the more user-friendly the people seem to be o.O but yah... i really couldn't live in a strict christian town >_>; i have way too many reasons why i'd end up getting hung or something XD;

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