Machinima Videos: History of C&C & Westwood Part 5

[Luk3us 63]

The 5th and final part of Machinima's series of videos about the history of Command & Conquer and Westwood Studios is now available for viewing. Check it out below.

 

You can view Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4 here. These videos are also available via the CNCNZ.com YouTube Channel.

[Nyerguds 100]

Nice overview, but...

 

"EA has recently rereleased the original game as a free download"

 

Looks like they didn't do much research on that... 4 years ago isn't what I call 'recently', and they didn't even mention the fact RA1 and TS are free too.

[Plok 323]

Looks like they didn't do much research on that... 4 years ago isn't what I call 'recently', and they didn't even mention the fact RA1 and TS are free too.

They also didn't mention any expansion except Zero Hour, but you can see some inserts in videos that are taken from expansions

[Nmenth 290]

Looks like they didn't do much research on that... 4 years ago isn't what I call 'recently', and they didn't even mention the fact RA1 and TS are free too.

That had me wondering too...

[Silverthorn 0]

Well, looks like not all homeworks are done.

 

But at least what I'm very pleased is they said "bosses", although they didn't mentioned Greg Black, but I hope they do and kept in their minds.

[Inferno 22]

And he still pronounces Kucan in a weird way :/

[mirza044 4]

there are some "interesting" opinions about part 5 and C&C4 at gamereplays forum:

Comp_Lex:

The reviewer has obviously not played CNC4. He explains the gameplay completely wrong. There is actually Tiberium in the game. You can build additional Support/Defensive structures with your Defense Crawler and you really need the Tiberium in order to tech and buy upgrades.

That last video was absolutely a horrible ending to an otherwise excellent history series.

 

methuselah:

I thought the same exact thing. I don't want to get into a C&C 4 debate here I've already had to clean this topic but I thought whomever composed that part of the history did not spend much time actually playing the game.

I get that it strays way far away from the cannon and I'm totally cool if that means some people hate it......but I've always loved team play so I don't feel the same way. Now the singleplayer is a different story. They should have just left it as C&C Arena, we'd still be waiting for Tiberian Twilight, and there would be so much less angst.

 

We are lucky that guys like these two represent very small part of C&C community (actually they are not C&C fans for me, they are RTS multiplayer fans), because if its up to them we would have more C&C4-like games from EALA. Now I completely understand why C&C4 completely failed: EALA devs closely listened what guys like these two multiplayer fans have to say about franchise, they never truly listened true long-time C&C fans. Just don't put all blame on EA bosses, because devs have their part. EALA devs put flying tiberium in the game (not EA bosses), they finished story with weak ending, they designed some of the most ridiculous units seen in RTS like wormman and there is quite share of other designs, they managed to turn dark and serious game from tiberium universe into something wacky like RA3 (unit selection outlines is just one example) and they listened advices and feedback from some gamereplays guys (I fear that EALA devs going to continue with same practice).

Edited February 10, 2011 by mirza044

[Nyerguds 100]

C&C4 isn't even RTS, it's "Real-Time Tactics".

[Gben 20]

Oh the irony that documentary ends with a whimper like the subject matter...

 

The same points above stood out to me when I first watched it but I was saving it for the new thread, I was just too busy to start it. It appears the comments on gameplay were more similar to my memory of the beta experience, even though the footage is from the retail version.

 

meh I forgive the technical mistakes in this last game, the spirit of what he is saying is still essentially true.

 

(I really enjoyed this series - I must check out there other work.)

[TheBlackOut 6]

C&C4 isn't even RTS, it's "Real-Time Tactics".

That's exactly what it is.

 

Still a good history series. I liked it.

[Silverthorn 0]

Well Mirza, I might disagree a little bit. Sure, the dev team did put in some ridiculous stuff here and there, but actually it's Greg Black who told us about how the dev team do not like the whole C&C4 mechanics go, it was once an experiment for the Asian market, but then the execs ordered them to turned it into a full game.

 

But remember, the dev team, no matter how you look at them, even if they are good or bad, it's mostly due to the execs that put the pressure on them. Think of yourself in an air-conditioned room without wearing a jacket, once you're freezing cold, your mind cannot think straight and quality output will surely be affected, this metaphor also applies to how the execs did to our beloved Greg Black and his colleagues, hopefully that sums it up.

[mirza044 4]

Well Mirza, I might disagree a little bit. Sure, the dev team did put in some ridiculous stuff here and there, but actually it's Greg Black who told us about how the dev team do not like the whole C&C4 mechanics go, it was once an experiment for the Asian market, but then the execs ordered them to turned it into a full game.

 

But remember, the dev team, no matter how you look at them, even if they are good or bad, it's mostly due to the execs that put the pressure on them. Think of yourself in an air-conditioned room without wearing a jacket, once you're freezing cold, your mind cannot think straight and quality output will surely be affected, this metaphor also applies to how the execs did to our beloved Greg Black and his colleagues, hopefully that sums it up.

I agree with you, but it's not enough for me to justify them. Maybe I'm wrong but thats my opinion.

[Silverthorn 0]

I don't blame you if you don't have the right amount of knowledge of how C&C4 was done and who was to blame for its failure, I got these from reading Greg Black's interview after he left EALA.

[mirza044 4]

I don't blame you if you don't have the right amount of knowledge of how C&C4 was done and who was to blame for its failure, I got these from reading Greg Black's interview after he left EALA.

I've read the same interview with Greg, and do you really believe that he's going to blame his colleagues and himself for C&C4 failure? I don't think so.

Edited February 10, 2011 by mirza044

[Gben 20]

... this metaphor also applies to how the execs did to our beloved Greg Black and his colleagues...

 

He's not my beloved Greg Black BTW. I have nothing bad to say against him, but equally nothing good about him sticks out either.

 

My opinion is yes, an executive can set an unreasonable deadline or an unworkable budget for any venture... but the ability of the team to perform set conditions also is a factor for the quality of the end product. But in my opinion that does not absolve them from responsibility of their part in the final product. The fact is the guys agreed to the deadline and conditions set and did the best they good. You either take stand on your high horse of artistic creativity, or you buckle down and climb the slippery corporate ladder as best you can.

 

What I'm trying to say is it took a team to make each and every game, and the team shares the glory and the pain.

[Silverthorn 0]

Mirza, Greg Black did not create the bad mechanics for us. It was an experiment until the execs told them to USE it. Use it or you're fired! That's what I know if I would to work over there. And I cannot say he should blame himself for the failure, he said that he doesn't want to create C&C4 in the most horrible of ways, but unfortunately it's the execs that kept them from making a real C&C that is, do it or you're gonna regret it. Don't get me wrong on this one.

 

But think about it, Gben, making a game isn't all but rushing out for cash. The Call of Duty series is well known for releasing one game per year, but you know what happened, MW2 did not go well & Black Ops still have some bad bugs inside. If Black Ops finished in 1.5 or 2 years instead, the game will become flawless. As for here, look at Blizzard, they take their good time to make a proper deadline because the company is both king & servant at the same time. Our EALA execs are kings while our dev teams are servants, when the kings ordered them to make a quick game, the dev team did fought back, but unfortunately, they have to make it without risking their jobs. Despite how much best they put into it, too short deadline to make a very good game only results in them cannot think straight. They're not a God to make one good game in a finger snap! Including the C&C4 interviews, the former developers who were in those videos gave all of these are just excuses, they kept their faces positive because revealing the painful truth will only get them fired by the execs. Look at Raj Joshi as I remembered, he said "people are going to love it" with a happy tone, but I bet if I were him, in his heart, doubts & future negative response will happen. And in the end, all of these did happened.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Silverthorn

[Guest Stevie_K]

Will this madness ever end?

 

"C&C4 is past, stop writing essays bragging about it." - new forum rule?

[Silverthorn 0]

There is a meaning of forgive and forget, the old Generals being not a real C&C game is forgiven a long time ago. But C&C4 I don't think so (Or maybe not sure), that game is way more insulting than Generals, even when it's from last year, it's not that easy to go away. This is one scar that is as big as the Grand Canyon, no cement trucks can ever cover it.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Silverthorn

[Plok 323]

Will this madness ever end?

 

"C&C4 is past, stop writing essays bragging about it." - new forum rule?

 

 

There is a meaning of forgive and forget, the old Generals being not a real C&C game is forgiven a long time ago.

At least I haven't forgiven that sin...

[Guest Stevie_K]

This is one scar that is as big as the Grand Canyon, no cement trucks can ever cover it.

Truth be said, the scar is as big as you make it.

 

Good things never lasts forever, and this franchise have probably had it's time and won't ever come back to the ecstatic state you/we felt it once was. Time to realize it.

I kind of feel bad for the pain you do to yourself (and to us for that matter). Think of the all the great times and all the good things and don't let the bad things nag you.

 

[Silverthorn 0]

I make it? Well, I'm not the only one that suffers with the whole C&C4 scar. WW & betrayed fans will feel like this very easily.

 

Anyway, we really hope it becomes like good things to remember just like on Memory Lane. But unfortunately, as long as the franchise is still alive, it cannot enter Memory Lane or Hall of Fame or whatever. It makes sense, anything that is still alive cannot be written in history books just yet until it's officially dead. Like Bullfrog's Dungeon Keeper series, once EA buried it, at least it did leave us a good memory. C&C still couldn't because it's still alive.

[Nyerguds 100]

Aw man, you just HAD to mention Bullfrog...

 

*sulks in corner at memories of Dungeon Keeper II and Syndicate*

[Silverthorn 0]

Don't blame me, man. EA was really a tyrant for merging competitions, WW might be an exception, but Bullfrog might be merged because EA hates rival competition and buying them out is a cheap shot way out! The CEO may had told us that they had stopped merging competitions, but the reputation of this one stays put.