MrFlibble 31 Posted March 20, 2011 Just wondering, has anyone ever tried to catalogue all the differences between the releases and ports of Command & Conquer? I'm not just talking about major changes like the N64 version is in full 3D, or the PS and N64 versions have extra missions added, but also those tiny differences concerning sounds, maybe some graphics, a missing (or added) music track here and there, etc. etc. Share this post Link to post
Tore 33 Posted March 20, 2011 The console versions have bigger bridges, shadows are missing on units. The N64 version are missing the covert operations. The special operations missions in N64 and PS1 are different from each other. Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted March 20, 2011 I think someone mentioned different sound effects for actions like credits added to or deduced from your stockpile, and scrolling the build menus. Also, documenting the differences between the localizations would've been nice. Perhaps there are different versions of some files not related to languages (like there are in localized versions of RA1)something like that. Share this post Link to post
Tore 33 Posted March 20, 2011 Yeah the scrolling in the console versions is horizontal instead of vertical. I had completely forgot about that. Also the background in empty spaces on the console sidebars have white horizontal lines. Navigating sidebar tiles also have a bang sound. The same happens in the options menus as well, but they have a slightly different sound. Share this post Link to post
Nyerguds 100 Posted March 21, 2011 Ho boy. This is a subject I know quite a lot about... I'd have to do research into the UI differences, but off the top of my head I can sum this up: N64 version: -Is in 3D, though the models are really simple-looking compared to the rendered PC versions. -Has the unique N64 Special Ops missions -Has midi music with sound effects instead of a real digital soundtrack -Instead of actual videos it has still images with the sound from the original videos. Contains some really neat unique renders in there. -Has some missions which were made easier to compensate for the annoying controls. -Is missing House Special, all four dinosaurs, the "ARCO" civilian oil tanker, the visceroid, and the SSM Launcher. The Chem Warrior looks like a minigunner and has no weapon (but is immune to tib), and the MHQ looks like an APC (but still blows up everything when killed). -Contains all PS Special Ops and all Covert Operations besides Deceit and Eviction Notice. However, they can't be accessed from the menu normally. If you manage to access them, most don't even work right because of the aforementioned missing/unusable stuff. Playstation version: -Has the unique Playstation Special Ops missions, plus the hidden PATSUX mission. -Contains the stereo music, with sound effects -Has videos in the PS' own mpeg-like format, which seem to have been recoded from the original source files, meaning they have better colour quality than the PC VQAs. Ironically though, they suffer from typical compression colour fade. Sega Saturn version: -Is the only console version which uses the original PC VQA format for its videos -Uses CD audio for all music, meaning it has the best music of all ports. Like the PS version, it uses the original sound effects versions rather than the PC version's dumbed down ones. Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted March 23, 2011 N64 version: ... -Has midi music with sound effects instead of a real digital soundtrack Have you been successful in extracting that? BTW, is it me, or is the font for the mission ending messages ("MISSION ACCOMPLISHED"/"MISSION FAILED") really different in the DOS and Win95 versions? Share this post Link to post
Nyerguds 100 Posted March 26, 2011 Yeah probably.. it's a 3D font, because the N64 can technically not display 2D images. Any 2D image you see, ever, is a texture on a flat 3D object. As for the music, I got all of those recorded on my site, including the music of the cutscenes. http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/N64Project/music/ Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted March 28, 2011 (edited) Yeah probably.. it's a 3D font, because the N64 can technically not display 2D images. Any 2D image you see, ever, is a texture on a flat 3D object. Actually, I was talking about the difference between DOS C&C and C&C Gold. In the DOS version, the font is entirely white with a black outline; in C&C Gold, it's metallic grey (maybe a recolour of the Red Alert version of the font). Can't post screenies right now, but it's easy peasy to check. I guess the Gold version font can be used in the DOS version with no problems As for the music, I got all of those recorded on my site, including the music of the cutscenes. http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/N64Project/music/ Yeah, I know that, but those are recordings in MP3, not raw extracted MIDIs. Or is the MIDI format on N64 incompatible with PC? [Edit] BTW, just noticed that you've got an N64 version of Enemies To Be Feared. Does it play in the game? Do any other versions/ports have music that was cut from the PC version (apart from the sfx versions of certain songs)? Also, if you compare C&C DOS and C&C Gold, there are also the following differences: the Hospital structure can't be sold in the DOS version (you fixed that by placing the "sell" animation into an SS?.MIX data exclusion file, but in the real DOS version, it's done in a different way - I wonder how) the "Right away, sir!" infantry response clip works in v1.22p, but it's misspelled in C&C Gold v1.04 (even though it's supposedly based on v1.22p source code) you mentioned that Untamed Land used to be a hidden track only to play in the Funpak campaign until a certain update, I haven't figured out which one yet (both v1.20 and v1.22 already have it on the regular track list) there are minor differences between some missions in DOS and Gold versions, mostly in the Nod campaign (more Tiberium in the last mission IIRC, maybe something else too) also, both Covert Ops and C&C Gold have an updated version of the Funpak campaign, with some map differences and added mission briefings there are, of course, unused sound files in the DOS version, like the "Over and out" unit response, that were removed from the C&C Gold datafiles (maybe also from the later releases of the DOS version?) Edited March 28, 2011 by MrFlibble Share this post Link to post
Nyerguds 100 Posted March 28, 2011 N64 doesn't use midi. It uses its own combination of midi and recorded voice clips. Obviously that can't be normal midi format. As for the tracks, I'd have to check the ingame playlists in the PS and Saturn version... but I know Airstrike and Destructible Times are on the Saturn CDs, in CD audio, and seeing as it doesn't have all music it'd seem like a waste to have that there if it wasn't used ingame. The Saturn tracks are ALL with full sound effects, even We Will Stop Them (Deception), Just Do It Up and No Mercy, of which the sound effects versions were missing in the hidden DOS tracks. The Playstation version has all sound effects too, but seems to be missing No Mercy. Hm, let's just go ahead and list em... Playstation version: same tracks on GDI and Nod disks: Airstrike Act On Instinct Fight, Win Prevail Industrial Destructible Times Just Do It Up In The Line Of Fire Map theme March To Doom On The Prowl Prepare For Battle Radio We Will Stop Them (Deception) Target (Mechanical Man) Warfare Great Shot! Sega Saturn: GDI: EVA: "GDI Disk Detected" Map theme Great Shot! Radio Act On Instinct Just Do It Up Target (Mechanical Man) On The Prowl Looks Like Trouble Warfare Airstrike Nod: EVA: "Nod Disk Detected" Kane's end speech: "The world... where to strike?" (in CD quality, yes ) Map theme Great Shot! Act On Instinct Fight Win Prevail Industrial Just Do It Up In The Line Of Fire March To Doom Target (Mechanical Man) No Mercy Prepare For Battle We Will Stop Them (Deception) Destructible Times Share this post Link to post
CCHyper 3 Posted March 29, 2011 First time i heard, "Brotherhood of Nod disk detected, to play the GDI missions, please insert the GDI disk", was amazing. Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted March 30, 2011 Sega Saturn: GDI: EVA: "GDI Disk Detected" Map theme Great Shot! Radio Act On Instinct Just Do It Up Target (Mechanical Man) On The Prowl Looks Like Trouble Warfare Airstrike Nod: EVA: "Nod Disk Detected" Kane's end speech: "The world... where to strike?" (in CD quality, yes ) Map theme Great Shot! Act On Instinct Fight Win Prevail Industrial Just Do It Up In The Line Of Fire March To Doom Target (Mechanical Man) No Mercy Prepare For Battle We Will Stop Them (Deception) Destructible Times Heh, this is a pretty good indication of what the side-specific soundtrack lists would have looked like in C&C Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted April 1, 2011 Apparently, the sidebar design in the PlayStation, Sega SATURN and Nintendo 64 (don't know about other consoles) is different, and the icons for each production type are scrolled horizontally, not vertically. I suppose this was done because there are separate scroll lists for different factory types (barracks, weapons factory, helipad etc.). Also, the icons aren't remapable in the PS and SATURN (?) versions. PlayStation Screenshot Nintendo 64 Screenshot Share this post Link to post
Nyerguds 100 Posted April 1, 2011 Ah yes... it's kind of more like the RA2 system. Different rows for units, buildings, aircraft and superweapons. Oh, and I'd almost forgotten about that blue Hand of Nod globe, lol. No idea why the PS/Saturn version got that changed. By the way, in terms of ingame behaviour and look the PS and Saturn version are virtually the same. Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted April 1, 2011 BTW, why are the shadows missing in the PS/Saturn version? Share this post Link to post
Nyerguds 100 Posted April 2, 2011 Shadows AND build-ups. I guess it was just all simplified for the consoles. I have no idea why, but if I'd wager a guess I'd say because it takes less CPU power without these extra filters and animations. Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted April 3, 2011 (edited) No build-up animations on consoles? What about N64? BTW, since you have the Mac version too, are there any significant differences? Does Mac C&C run in 640x480, even with the DOS version looks? Maybe it features high-res interface, like the Mac version of Star Wars: Dark Forces? Oh, and are there any differences between DOS and Mac demos? Edited April 3, 2011 by MrFlibble Share this post Link to post
Nyerguds 100 Posted April 4, 2011 I don't have a mac to play it on, but Jk tested the mac demo ages ago and he said (and showed with screenshots) that it was simply all like C&C95. The same missions as the DOS demo, but in the C&C95 interface. A straight port from C&C95 to mac. [edit] Found Jk's screenies http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/junk/cnc_macdemo.png http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/junk/cnc_macdemo_directory.png http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/junk/cnc_macdemo_ingame.png http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/junk/cnc_macdemo_onexit.png The font in the top bar seems a tad different... Share this post Link to post
CCHyper 3 Posted April 4, 2011 I got a funny feeling that the C&C95 Mac version is just a container that runs a windows executable? Could you upload the iso or the contents? Share this post Link to post
Aroenai 2 Posted April 5, 2011 I got a funny feeling that the C&C95 Mac version is just a container that runs a windows executable? Could you upload the iso or the contents? Doubtful, PowerPC processors back in that day weren't powerful enough for Intel instruction emulation. The only reason why games these days get away with using a Windows executable on Mac OS X is because the newer Macs have Intel processors and it uses a modified version of Wine (Cedega/Cider? I forget which) which also wasn't very mature at the time. Share this post Link to post
CCHyper 3 Posted April 5, 2011 Aye, thought as much, just wondering. Would be interesting to decompile the Mac package though. Share this post Link to post
Nyerguds 100 Posted April 6, 2011 I got the isos uploaded, in mac dmg format. But I can't run them, because of a lack of Mac hardware. My internship partner ripped them for me last year. http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/isos/cnc_mac/ Apparently you need to install some kind of legacy support stuff to get it running on modern macs. If anyone would install it, or the demo, I'd be very interested in getting the mixfiles from the install folder, to see if anything inside is different. And I'd love to have the original PCX versions of these demo pics, too. Share this post Link to post
MrFlibble 31 Posted April 7, 2011 Hmm, perhaps there's a Mac emulator available somewhere? Share this post Link to post
pichorra 4 Posted April 15, 2011 Ho boy. This is a subject I know quite a lot about... I'd have to do research into the UI differences, but off the top of my head I can sum this up: N64 version: -Is in 3D, though the models are really simple-looking compared to the rendered PC versions. -Has the unique N64 Special Ops missions -Has midi music with sound effects instead of a real digital soundtrack -Instead of actual videos it has still images with the sound from the original videos. Contains some really neat unique renders in there. -Has some missions which were made easier to compensate for the annoying controls. -Is missing House Special, all four dinosaurs, the "ARCO" civilian oil tanker, the visceroid, and the SSM Launcher. The Chem Warrior looks like a minigunner and has no weapon (but is immune to tib), and the MHQ looks like an APC (but still blows up everything when killed). -Contains all PS Special Ops and all Covert Operations besides Deceit and Eviction Notice. However, they can't be accessed from the menu normally. If you manage to access them, most don't even work right because of the aforementioned missing/unusable stuff. There are things Missing: -Have the Rocket Launcher Angle fixed. It was wrong in C&C95 until Nyerguds Fix it. -Have edited Missions (GDI08B, GDI15C, Nod11A, Nod13ABC) -Have a Inverted Radar rotation (anti-hour side) -Have a small graphical bug in Ad. Comm center. -The "Over and Out" sound is used. -The "Incomming Missle" sound is used. -Have a diferenced pronounce of "GDI/Nod building captured". -Have a wrong Brigde title (it should be bigger) -High Reso. Logos -Missing "Force Trampe" Command. well, if i forgot something i'll post here. Share this post Link to post
Psylus 0 Posted April 28, 2011 If anyone would install it, or the demo, I'd be very interested in getting the mixfiles from the install folder, to see if anything inside is different. Ask and ye shall receive: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7243062/C%26C%20Mac.zip I've had these sitting around for quite awhile. The zip contains the MIX files and three C&C Mac executables (original, 1.72, and Dino). Funpark can't be activated like on the Win95 and DOS versions because of how the legacy MacOS worked, so it was activated by adding a flag ($7B) to one of the "Unused" fields on the Wset resource of the resource fork using ol' ResEdit. Thus, the extra Dino executable. Share this post Link to post