Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Alex06

Hate EA and C&C? They ruined our beloved Westwood and C&C, you say?

Recommended Posts

I saw your attempts to bring reason to the Tiberium Alliances Trailer comments section on Youtube. All that you say is true, but it's futile. Whiny n00bs will be whiny n00bs. All that can be done about it is... well, marking their posts as spam?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw your attempts to bring reason to the Tiberium Alliances Trailer comments section on Youtube. All that you say is true, but it's futile. Whiny n00bs will be whiny n00bs. All that can be done about it is... well, marking their posts as spam?

I guess. But the point ultimately was to get potential visitors NOT to get in-line with all the mindless haters, and give EA and the developers of the game some of the decency and respect they deserve. :P

 

As for this thread, I posted it per Sonic's request.

 

EDIT: I edited the post a bit. Added some information.

Edited by Alex06

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I congratulate Alex06 for this post. Its long and detailed but its how things have panned out. And the more people who read it and understand there should be less of the bitching and moaning about what EA is doing with the franchise.

 

And yes I asked Alex06 to post this here, in the hope that more people get to read it.

 

With Generals 2 up next, Tiberium Alliances is an interesting side project. The franchise is in healthy and positive position moving forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alex06.

 

You deserve a medal for this.

I have seen you a few times on the official C&C forums and everytime I do.

 

Sanity and Logic follow in your wake

 

Thank you for posting this.

Edited by Lord_Kane

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You see this is the sort of post where you hit that little rep_up.png button and rep +1 ;) (On Alex06's original post of course).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You see this is the sort of post where you hit that little rep_up.png button and rep +1 ;) (On Alex06's original post of course).

 

I did that after I posted my message I just wanted to add to the appreciation :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I will also add that C&C4 was a free-to-play game known as C&C Arena that EA, as a publisher, forced their RTS team inside their Los Angeles studio to turn into a full product. As a result, the small development team that was created to work on Kane's Wrath, went immediately into working on C&C4. Due to time and budget constraints, a lack of employee workforce, and EA forcing down the idea of having to sell an RTT competitive game as the next Tiberian game, C&C4 was released. The storyline was assembled from ideas that would go into a potential C&C4 and mostly the cancelled "Tiberium" Squad-based FPS. Though due to time constraints, not much could be arranged to make the game feel and play like a natural extension of Tiberium Wars, nor could the Scrin, the alien faction that was introduced in Tiberium Wars, be included into the game. This is the only time in which EA, as a publisher, may have had a real and actually negative impact on a C&C.

 

^ This is probably one of the major reasons why people don't like EA developing C&C games. I've had great experiences with employees of EALA over the past few years, and there's no doubt that they were a friendly, talented bunch that cared for what they were making, but there's still a higher level of suits in the multinational corporation that call the shots. The higher ups didn't have a problem laying off lots of workers from the U.S and outsource their work to "low budget countries" (Mexico, China). There's a lot of examples of contention between the developers and the business heads. When Red Alert 3 was originally announced years before it went into development, EA had given the original team 11 months to develop it, and they simply decided that it couldn't be done. Likewise, Tiberium was cancelled because of contentions between employees and people higher in the hierarchy that had less to do with the development of the game.

 

With C&C4, EA forced a skunkswork RTS model onto EALA. C&C4 also only had a 1 year development time, and several months before release, the EA corporate heads announced that most of the C&C team would be laid off. For reasons and others you mentioned, the "epic conclusion" to the Tiberian saga was the series' biggest flop. I don't blame the workers of course - if you gave them a bigger workforce, another 2 years of development time, and free reign in what RTS model they could use, then we could have potentially had an excellent game. But unlike quality developers like Blizzard and Bioware (we'll see what happens with Bioware now that it's a label), the business model between C&C3 and C&C4 was to pop out as many games as possible in a short amount of time, rather than take time to develop quality games that break the ice and please the fans.

 

Now I'm not at all "anti-EA", I think there's a lot of good things they did for the community (C&C3 was pretty good, Battlecast Primetime, Community Summits, Battlecast Primetime, good PR). My point is that the workers at EALA have always been ernest people trying to do their best for the community and make a living. But the suits in charge of EA as a corporation just saw everything in quarterly cost-benefit numbers, which has hurt the C&C name over the long run. In 1998, Westwood owned 6% of the PC market, and by the millenium, it was clear that they wanted to expand C&C to multiple genres and platforms. A lot of that initial distaste for EA came after they cancelled what looked like promising games (or concepts) like Tiberian Incursion, Renegade 2, and Continuum.

 

I believe they're already heading in a better direction though. Generals 2 was a good move, because its like starting fresh, with a fresh new engine as well. It's a good time to put away the Tiberian and Red Alert saga for now and see something that is totally unique to Bioware Victory. It also looks like they're going back to traditional base building. Starcraft 2 came out shortly after C&C4, and we were able to see the huge difference between the two games - SC2 was in development for several years, it was story driven, high quality, very balanced competitive, used what worked in the late 90s, and modernized. I think EA has learned. It looks like Generals 2 has been in development for some time, and won't be released until 2013, which means its development time has already been longer than the last few C&C games we've had. I think there's an effort now to live up to the Bioware name. How long will this effort last, I don't know, but I think Generals 2 will be the best game we've seen since Generals 1 at the very least.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So lets talk, Many will not remember me. I at one time hosted CNCNZ along with being a very old friend of Sonic. I have copies of CC1 & 2, RA 1 & 2 & 3, TS, Generals, Hell I have renegade and I even a copy of Sole Survivor, if anyone can remember that far back. Needless to say I have a lot of nostalgia and love for the C&C series as a whole.

 

I am not going to talk about Westwood & EA purchase. Nor my opinions of EA in general. What I will say is I would love to see the C&C series return to what it should be, however I will not be holding my breath. I have continued to buy all of the C&C titles except for the last one. I checked it out, the controls alone where enough to make me not want to play it. That right there is a shame. I look at other games like Starcraft and they not only "Stayed True" to the series, but hit it out of the park on the last incarnation. I will give them another chance to bring the C&C series back in my eyes, but if it is going to be a AAA title they better nail it. Staying true to form for people that love or care about old series is very important, and I don't know what kind of drugs the last devs where on but they failed, hard. If they can't take a better overall of the theme / series beyond this next time, they may as well scrap it all together. It hurts me to say that however, the fact that the series that is soo old and still going is a testament to the fans. Kudos to everyone who is a die hard C&C fan. I hope that they do well, only time will tell. The fact that Bioware is involved gives me a spark of hope.

 

Keep chugging people, You have my old thanks..

 

-Cyberman0 (Formerly of Westwood Underground)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a shame that this title needs to live up to the BIOWARE name and not the C&C name... and I'm a little nervous that this comes under that Bioware umbrella rather than a tried and true developer in the genre... but Bioware does have a much better current track record for Q&A. So I'm positive and enthusiastic about Gen2.

 

It seems this time EA has made some good choices for a change.

 

The biggest problem with Alex's post is that it has too many words in it, and the attention span and intelligence of the people the post it was directed too means it won't get read let alone understood.

 

As they say...

Haters gotta hate.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The franchise is in healthy and positive position moving forward.

Moving forward is what pisses some fans off, especially those who cling to Westwood like a five year old kid to a ratty old blanket. They don't want to move forward; they want the same garbage cut, repackaged and regurgitated for every iteration of the series. Seems like the ones who whine the most just want Tiberian Sun over and over and over again in a new engine with the same old stagnant gameplay mechanics we've seen since 1995. The diehard "Westwood forever" C&C fans are like any fan base of a series that's probably run a little too long: they're obstinate and impossible to please, no matter what you do. I tend to ignore the "Westwood forever" crew since they're just in it to ruin the experience for everyone else. God forbid anyone actually enjoys Tiberium Wars or Red Alert 3. Sheesh, heaven help anyone who likes Tiberium Twilight. The old 'fanbase' is a joke, living in 1999 instead of 2011.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-Cyberman0 (Formerly of Westwood Underground)

 

Hey good to see you pop here after so many years Cyberman0. We had some great times back in the old days with the Westwood Underground.

 

The biggest problem with Alex's post is that it has too many words in it, and the attention span and intelligence of the people the post it was directed too means it won't get read let alone understood.

 

That's what someone said on our Facebook page, http://www.facebook....154477751323046, to which I replied....

 

To much to read. No offence but that's one of the reasons why the C&C Community is out of touch and misinformed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to see some of you have read and posted replies.

 

@Lord_Kane - Why, thank you, kind sir!

 

@[NE]Fobby[GEN] - Thanks for expanding on that. I didn't do it nearly as well as you did. The C&C4 team did well with what they were given, and it's a real shame EA tried to force them into this direction. I even recall some of the developers, at release, did a live interview on Xfire, where they pretty much admitted it wasn't their choice and that ultimately, they even decided to write an ending to the series as to avoid EA from ruining the series by turning it into some kind of RTT and milking it. That was sad to hear, especially from a developer. I would've personally much rather have Tiberium than what we ended up with. That game was apparently just starting to show some promise when it was cancelled. And again, EA is to blame for hiring "10 managers for every developer", as quoted from the comments section of an article about the game's cancellation. Most of the employees who worked on the game went on to post there and revealed that there were too many managers going against each others' decisions and EA was constantly hiring people with no real idea of what the game's direction should be. But I think EA is willing to give C&C a chance, which is something we can't say for 2001-2002's EA, which cancelled Renegade 2 to instead fund Battlefield 1942, delayed C&C3 (which ultimately changed direction completely) and the Continuum MMORPG (which may have made millions and turn Westwood into what Blizzard is today).

 

@Cyberman0 - I think I remember your username. It's an honor to have you read this and even reply to it. I believe, as you've mentioned, that because this is an AAA title attached to the BioWare brand, I'm positive it will turn out at least decent, if not fantastic, actually.

 

@Plokite_Wolf @gben @Doctor Destiny - I agree with you three, that crowd is hard to please and lives indeed in the past, and I do reckon that they are probably not going to read this, but I'm sure that if someone out there reads it, and changes their behavior to a more mature one, I'll feel like this will have achieved something, at least.

 

Also, these so-called "fans" are not even that old. Most of them are under 21, which means they were children when growing up and playing C&C. Whereas I do fit in there, too, I'm not filled with hatred and anti-EA comments. Most of these people seem to act like children. No one would ever talk or behave in such manner in real-life. I am willing to bet that if most of these people met the developers of a new C&C, they would barely utter a single negative comment, if any. And it's ridiculous to see this kind of hatred, and in such large manner. Do they not take their death threats seriously? If I saw anyone threaten anyone with death, I'd take it seriously. Why would it be so acceptable and unrepresentative of the person's view if it is on the internet? Why do people let themselves go in such childish manners?

 

@Sonic - Feel free to add this to the articles section if you'd like! I recall reading in the CNCNZ news that there was a lack of articles. Perhaps you could put this one up. :P

 

If you need me to modify it in any way, though, before it can be posted in that section, feel free to tell me what needs editing!

 

Also, I've modified the first post with 2 more lines. Nothing major if you've already read it - It's probably not worth re-reading it. It was merely in case this could be linked to from other places for people to read.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also, these so-called "fans" are not even that old. Most of them are under 21, which means they were children when growing up and playing C&C. Whereas I do fit in there, too, I'm not filled with hatred and anti-EA comments. Most of these people seem to act like children. No one would ever talk or behave in such manner in real-life. I am willing to bet that if most of these people met the developers of a new C&C, they would barely utter a single negative comment, if any. And it's ridiculous to see this kind of hatred, and in such large manner. Do they not take their death threats seriously? If I saw anyone threaten anyone with death, I'd take it seriously. Why would it be so acceptable and unrepresentative of the person's view if it is on the internet? Why do people let themselves go in such childish manners?

When I say old I don't mean that literally. I mean the crew that started C&C with Tiberian Dawn or Red Alert as their first game. I'm probably one of the actual older crew out there and we're few and far between (I know there are older fans out there than I am). However, age doesn't mean anything when on the Internet and even an otherwise intelligent adult can turn into a babbling cretin at a moment's notice. However, my point was that this is the crew that doesn't want to move forward anywhere in the series and it's fairly annoying to say the least. Why ruin everyone else's good time because you're stuck on Tiberian Sun as the "holy grail of C&C"? Honestly, Tiberian Sun is easily Westwood's worst C&C game so I just don't understand why people cling to it so much. It's not even that good, but that's just me.

 

Admittedly, my first experience with C&C wasn't until 1998 or so when I played the first one on the Nintendo 64, but I started with Tiberian Dawn and I've enjoyed every game in the series up to Tiberian Twilight. Even though I started later than most, I've still enjoyed the direction C&C took with RA2, Generals, Tiberium Wars and even Red Alert 3. I even give Tiberian Twilight credit for trying to move C&C away from its formulaic roots. PROTIP: This is a good thing. It's just unfortunate that the game was so underwhelming in every aspect that it will never really see any acclaim. I know I'm not the only one in that 'somewhat older' C&C crew who feels this way and it just seems like the old fans are out to destroy what they once held so dear. Just makes no sense to me.

 

Really. Embrace the changes. Games don't stay the same forever and try to enjoy what EA has produced so far. Take the games as they are, one by one instead of trying to make a package deal out of everything. You might find yourself with more enjoyment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol, are people screaming that Tiberium Alliances is destroying the franchise now? I haven't been paying attention to the news since C&C's soul died years ago as far as I'm concerned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although I do agree with most of the facts that Alex06 said, the only comment I would say is this: Westwood is the past whereas EA and Bioware are the future.

 

The only parts that EALA did successfully that Westwood couldn't do back then to make a good C&C game was the AI and better multiplayer. The AI in C&C3 through C&C4 were significantly improved with minimal bugs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right. Westwood is the past. They're not part of the equation anymore and thank god. Did you see what they had planned for C&C3? I thought this was sci-fi, not a Marvel comic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing I've seen from Westwood's C&C3 looked like a Marvel comic, I'm not sure what you're talking about...

 

It also seems like rather than being an EA basher, you are being a Westwood basher. The former is no better, but also no worse than the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not a Westwood basher per se (except in the case of Tiberian Sun), but some of their ideas weren't very good and I point out bad ideas. Hell, I don't like some things EA did for TW and RA3 so it's not exclusive to whichever company I favor more (PROTIP: neither). It's just... Westwood ideas for Tiberian Incursion (or whatever it was to be called) were really bad. If you don't know what I mean by "Marvel comic", then you haven't seen what I've seen and I am not the first person to make that comparison. Also, you can't also sit back and say "Yuri being an acolyte of Kane who time traveled" isn't a really stupid idea (PROTIP: It's a stupid idea).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Destiny, those "Forgotten turning into X-men", "The Tacitus is from Martians who were destroyed by the Scrin" and "Yuri and his psi-corps are part of Nod" were all just random ideas that were thrown around.

 

As if a developer planning the story for a new Generals, threw around an idea and asked "What if in 10 years, India nukes the world?" It's nothing more than part of a brainstorm session. It was probably written up as canon by someone who had no idea how to fill a plot hole, so they filled it with, well, filler or in this case, random brainstorming, without really questioning the logic of it and how it fits into the universe. This is a reason why I find so much fan fiction is terrible. It feels as those fan writers never go past this phase when they are writing their fan fiction.

 

Cypher of PlanetCNC even mentioned how ridiculous it was to the developers. Those were merely ideas that were thrown around in pre-production phase to get an idea of how the lore is to evolve. Nothing more. All those ideas from C&C3 had A LOT of opposition in the development team. Adam Isgreen, who mentioned these ideas, was simply remembering things vaguely and was probably not a part of the main writing team. (IE he was just an additional writer that helped along) C&C3: Incursion, didn't make it far. There were 4 different directions, the latter of which is TW as we know it today. All 3 directions were "put on hold" in the pre-production phase. All they had assembled were "tech demos" of the game, which is exactly what we've seen. It's the earliest pre-alpha state you could imagine. Some of it might not even be rendered on the actual game engine, instead being rendered on another game's engine or inside 3D Studio Max or Maya. That's why there isn't much concept art for specific units, environments and structures for Incursion to go around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Cyberman0 - I think I remember your username. It's an honor to have you read this and even reply to it. I believe, as you've mentioned, that because this is an AAA title attached to the BioWare brand, I'm positive it will turn out at least decent, if not fantastic, actually.

 

I don't know about Honor, I'm just an old man gamer now, along with sonic. We getting close to knowing each other for 20 years, Man has it really been that long? Ugh. lol. I still keep in touch with some old players once in a while. I still lurk from the old corners of the web :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×