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Tiberian Sun: Reborn Interview with BlueHell Productions

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snapback.pngLauren, on 23 February 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

 

Why is BHP so offensive towards people that still care would be another good question. Seriously for someone like me who hasn't anything to do with Renegade anymore Chronojams posts here doesn't look like it's something I want to look into. Irans first comments were way less offensive than Chronojams.

 

 

There's a very valid point in this post which I suspect is going to be completely ignored in favor of personal attacks and "defend our mod's honor" posts.

I'm still not seeing where this is a valid point at all. And I guess I missed where this topic was titled "Lets discuss the things we don't like about APB". Last time I checked this was an interview topic about Reborn joining up with BHP. CJ, Me or anyone else from BHP shouldn't have to defend ourselves in the this thread at all.

 

I don't see any of the people from the Reborn forums active anymore btw. What happened to Enduar?? And what's with the very negative attitude towards well thought out criticism and analysis?

Actually, a good amount of people from the Reborn forums headed of to our forums and at first was a bit messy getting everyone to get along, but now that the dust has settled people like Enduar, and other Reborn fans are adjusting pretty well.

 

Patches like 2.1? Which took months longer to release than initially planned? And when finally released, shipped with major bugs from the final release candidate which were never even addressed? And also made the balance worse than what it was in 2.0? Oh, maybe you we're referring to another "hotfix" patch called 2.1.1, which has also taken months and has yet to be released.

 

The balance needs very simple changes to work. It's a shame that it takes months to release patches which do the opposite of what a patch should do. I've been saying this for a long time, you really should listen to the veteran players more. I really like APB but it's quite frustrating to see a dev team that can't get out of it's own way.

 

Sith Wampa, Have you ever tried to get a group of people that are busy with School, jobs, other real life issues, that have different time zones and that aren't getting paid to get work done for a game? It's not a easy task at all. So yes, things do take alittle longer then expected to produce a patch. And sometimes when you finally do get everything you need to release a patch and you finally get everyone on at the same time, sometimes your in such a rush to get it out you miss very important bugs. So instead of sitting around and bitching at PointlessAmbler or CJ or anyone else, you should have been out finding these bugs and reporting them to BHP. You were a tester at the time, so yes, alot of what your complaining about falls on your self as well.

Edited by Wallywood
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I can't begin to recall how many testers reported those major bugs, though that is irrelevant, because you basically spend alot of time playing what you make, so you knew about them anyway, right?

 

Also just to add, you said to a number of people before the new year that Reborn would be out in January 2012. I can't wait to see what Reborn will look like after an extra year of improvements.

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Also just to add, you said to a number of people before the new year that Reborn would be out in January 2012. I can't wait to see what Reborn will look like after an extra year of improvements.

 

This statement alone shows you don't listen or just don't know how to read very well, I have said that I plan on getting something out in 2012 never did I say a month or give a time. And I have already re done the entire game play plans from the old Reborn. So yes it will play like an entirely different game. So in short, you go back to hatin and I'll go back to working on the game. :)

 

PS thanks again CNCNZ but I'm done with this pointless back and forth with these kids. Please contact me or CJ if you guys have any further questions.

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There's a very valid point in this post which I suspect is going to be completely ignored in favor of personal attacks and "defend our mod's honor" posts.

 

I've been vindicated, sadly.

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Didn't some guys have to set up their own tracker because the bug were ignored and weren't there like 8 release candidates during the open testing? That was pretty ridiculous.

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Guys, I respect your right to freedom of speech and all, but can you please continue this matter through private messages? This argument has brought the topic completely off-course and there is no reason to bring up such matters in public. An argument on a forum is not going to change anything except make you all look immature, as incidents are dug up from the past which are better left buried. I am surprised that a moderator hasn't intervened to prevent this conflict from escalating into a all-out flame war.

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This argument has brought the topic completely off-course and there is no reason to bring up such matters in public. An argument on a forum is not going to change anything except make you all look immature,
I am surprised that a moderator hasn't intervened to prevent this conflict from escalating into a all-out flame war.

 

Guys, I respect your right to freedom of speech and all

 

No, you don't.

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KevinLancaster is right. Stop this pointless debate. Go to the BHP Teamspeak or IRC servers to continue this flamewar discussion or I will have this thread cleared of posts for offtopic talking.

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Guest Rabbit

As long as the replies have SOMETHING to do with the interview in general, I see no reason that this thread should be cut so short. Both sides have expressed themselves publicly, and thus, remove their own intentions of keeping this conversation "private." As long as there is some merit and relevance in what everyone has to say, I think the conversation should continue.

 

My only objection to any parts of posts is the personal insults towards anyone else participating in this conversation. My reason for requesting that you hold your personal insults is specifically so you can all save your typing for good, hard, conversation, and not pointless flaming. This rule applies to everyone.

 

With that said, please, continue.

 

 

@Wallywood, No problem! I really enjoy doing interviews, it helps me personally get involved more in playing these games, and it's definitely fun to see what's going on over there. I hope good things come in the future. :)

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Plokite: Why is it pointless? Is it pointless because you don't want to read it? In that case, don't read it. Save yourself the trouble of posting your disdain for the subject when you clearly want nothing to do with it. Or is it pointless because it airs grievances people have, legitimate or not, regarding how "BHP" treats their fanbase (or lack thereof?) in public and private? I'm not sure why you consider it to be pointless. You may wish to digress and elaborate your thoughts a bit more. To that end, I would also recommend that you look up the definition of "right" as it pertains to debating... Because Kevin is most certainly not right, unless you're saying he's right because he contradicted himself when he clearly does not respect anyone's "right" to free speech on a public, privately owned website.

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Err so wait people aren't allowed to post comments that have criticism on CNCNZ? I'm not sure what you guys are getting at. Aircraftkiller explained it pretty well. :/

 

A interview was done in which some ridiculous things were said and most of the responses to the interview have been negative, that's something that happens from time to time everywhere. does the CNCNZ staff for some reason think this is amazing?

 

The only amazing thing is the hurling of insults towards people's valid criticism by BHP staff members, which poorly reflects their team, but is something they're known for.

Edited by Iran
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Guest Rabbit

I think you misunderstood my post, Iran. I've italicized the edit that I've made. What I meant by personal insults was insulting another member participating in this conversation, for example, name calling towards anyone (not specifically CNCNZ or its staff). I wasn't referring exclusively to our site or staff.

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Plokite: Why is it pointless? Is it pointless because you don't want to read it? In that case, don't read it. Save yourself the trouble of posting your disdain for the subject when you clearly want nothing to do with it. Or is it pointless because it airs grievances people have, legitimate or not, regarding how "BHP" treats their fanbase (or lack thereof?) in public and private? I'm not sure why you consider it to be pointless. You may wish to digress and elaborate your thoughts a bit more. To that end, I would also recommend that you look up the definition of "right" as it pertains to debating... Because Kevin is most certainly not right, unless you're saying he's right because he contradicted himself when he clearly does not respect anyone's "right" to free speech on a public, privately owned website.

Look. This **** began when Iran made a post that clearly had no ground (game-breaking bugs that I have never found in a public APB release, except for extreme lag in 2.0) and even appeared to contradict himself with that 6-player thing. Then the BHP team played along. I'd rather trust them because they have 8 years of experience with APB and the guy has nothing to support his theory. Lauren complained on their overprotective performance, but I see no reason for a creator to stop people from attempting being critical when they're just not. I only agree with sith_wampa about the speed in which bugs are fixed. It took two or three open beta release candidates (before 2.1 was released) for the BHP staff to fix a bug I reported that prevented Flame Towers from attacking a target that was below them.

 

So, ACK, I think we're pretty much going nowhere here because the flamer's team will post something, BHP will react and a karma troll will downvote their posts. We're looking like quarreling 5-year-olds.

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There is a difference between defending their work and defending their work while insulting someone in every other sentence. Someone should be able to do that without using swear words, that was the point of my post.

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I am surprised that a moderator hasn't intervened to prevent this conflict from escalating into a all-out flame war.

 

We are watching, We are well aware of whats happening in this thread. We will take the necessary action should things spiral out of control. We feel they haven't, there is some minor insulting going on but its really nothing personal as far as I can see. Its relatively tame to be honest.

 

Anyway I would like to see this thread discuss the points of the BHP Reborn interview. The thread will not be closed though.

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BHP will react... looking like quarreling 5-year-olds.

 

Your post could've been summed up more easily like that, really. I'm not one to label people as being of a certain age because maturity is not a representation of age. What I do know is that they continue the same pattern of behavior that I exhibited during my tenure when I led that project they work on. It's the same behavior that made a lot of people irritated with me. Would you blame anyone but the people who continue to perpetrate that same behavior?

 

Also, I'd like to correct some inaccuracies in this interview:

 

1. first public proposal was in May of 2011. - No. The first public proposal to merge with Reborn was given in 2005 or 2006... Way before this.

 

2. We both independently came up with the idea around April. - No. The idea did not originate with those two considering that we ("we" being when CJ still worked under me and didn't consider me to be some threat to him over the Internet) had attempted to merge with Reborn at least once or twice.

 

3. One idea I had was trying to make a sort of infection type play: Whenever you spawn, you're all on the same team, you try to kill AI mutants. If you die, you respawn as mutant. - Renegade's developers had this game mode in the planning stages in 2002.

 

4. Give me a year. - As Sith Wampa mentioned before, he had bragged about this being released in January of 2012... Not 2013.

 

5. Renegade is always in a state of rubble and bugs that will never be fixed. - Well, I suppose that's true if you don't patch the game to 4.0. Otherwise, you're ignoring Tiberian Technologies; people who made your scripts a reality.

 

6. Renegade sort of looks like a cartoon now, whereas our game is more realistic. - Renegade doesn't look like a cartoon, and your mod does not look better than Renegade to any objective standard beyond view distance and foliage count. Otherwise, Renegade's texture development and art style is very consistent whereas APB has textures that come from Computer Artworks' The Thing (2002) and has not developed any consistent art style or direction. This makes all of their work look odd when placed next to each other. Buildings that have low detail from 2003 that produce vehicles which have moderate detail from 2008 onward, etc. It's jarring. It clashes with the visual style which would otherwise be great if the people working on it would develop a common standard by which their work would be developed.

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It's sunday, 17:30 CET and there's one person playing APB online.

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My Take in Blue

Also, I'd like to correct some inaccuracies in this interview:

 

1. first public proposal was in May of 2011. - No. The first public proposal to merge with Reborn was given in 2005 or 2006... Way before this.

How did that work out?

 

2. We both independently came up with the idea around April. - No. The idea did not originate with those two considering that we ("we" being when CJ still worked under me and didn't consider me to be some threat to him over the Internet) had attempted to merge with Reborn at least once or twice.

OK, perhaps.

 

3. One idea I had was trying to make a sort of infection type play: Whenever you spawn, you're all on the same team, you try to kill AI mutants. If you die, you respawn as mutant. - Renegade's developers had this game mode in the planning stages in 2002.

This is true

 

5. Renegade is always in a state of rubble and bugs that will never be fixed. - Well, I suppose that's true if you don't patch the game to 4.0. Otherwise, you're ignoring Tiberian Technologies; people who made your scripts a reality.

TT can't fix balance bugs. However, TT does fix a lot of the most annoying bugs.

 

6. Renegade sort of looks like a cartoon now, whereas our game is more realistic. - Renegade doesn't look like a cartoon, and your mod does not look better than Renegade to any objective standard beyond view distance and foliage count. Otherwise, Renegade's texture development and art style is very consistent whereas APB has textures that come from Computer Artworks' The Thing (2002) and has not developed any consistent art style or direction. This makes all of their work look odd when placed next to each other. Buildings that have low detail from 2003 that produce vehicles which have moderate detail from 2008 onward, etc. It's jarring. It clashes with the visual style which would otherwise be great if the people working on it would develop a common standard by which their work would be developed.

I would actually consider a full remake of all the assets in the game. I understand the WIPs, but they need to release this all at once, not one at a time.

Edited by Generalcamo

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It's sunday, 17:30 CET and there's one person playing APB online.

Oh never mind, it's now 0:38 am and there are 3 players on.

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TT can't fix balance bugs. However, TT does fix a lot of the most annoying bugs.

Don't get me started on balance bugs.....

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Renegade doesn't have much balance bugs if played at 24-32 players with a time limit of around 30-45 minutes. In bigger games Nod has a better chance of winning (also when it's a marathon server) and in smaller games GDI has a small edge. Otherwise the win rate for both teams is 50% give take 2% at most.

 

Obviously I'm not talking about n00bjets and shooting armoured vehicles with sniper rifles, that's gameplay design, and that's what the game lacks in (and good marathon maps :( ). But it doesn't have such poor gameplay elements such as rocket soldiers with rocket launchers that hoom in on enemy heads and insta-kill all enemy infantry with one head shot, nor can you grab a Buggy and a Rocket Soldier Officer and be able to get #1 by killing tanks (evading their shots and poor speed) like you can do with a Rocket Soldier and Ranger in APB.

 

You also can't place anti-tank mines that are invisible to tanks and do 80%+ damage to the Soviet's main battle tank and 50% against a Mammoth Tank (and you can cluster two so you can place some cool mine fields everywhere that instakill tanks, pretty cool). There's one unit in Renegade that can take out a whole building by himself with C4, he's armed with a pistol that does 10 HP damage to infantry (taking lots of skill to kill people with that pistol). In A Path Beyond there's Tanya who can both destroy buildings with C4 AND takes out Soviet infantry with 3 shoots from her pistol and one headshot from that pistol, during my time playing A Path Beyond my C4 always went off because the Soviets don't have anything remotely decent that can handle Tanya.

 

During my time playing the game I invited some friends to play--random friends from /v/ and some Renegade clan wars players, and they all laughed at the poor gameplay design, most commonly how I always was ranked #1 in score every map solely using the Ranger and Rocket Soldier, but also with meched Medium Tanks.

 

I got to say it was really fun to play the game when playing as the Allies because of the poor balance (a few people even mentioned about this poor balance in their join message) and all the floating trees lol. I hope I can expect more from BHP in the future

Edited by Iran
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I prefered 1.x over 2.x, solely due to the high player counts and good balance. Sure, NW had it's bugs, but it still felt like .9935, and the bugs weren't jarring like they are in gamma.

 

We had a 32 player game in gamma 2.1, the balance was so bad that I quit. Nuclear Winter had this player count a lot, and it was pretty balanced.

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So it has been a few months, do you think we could have another interview? I'm interested to see what Reborn looks like now after months of development.

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