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Red Alert: A Path Beyond Latest Dev Blog

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"or just do it for entertainment, like ACK is here.

As for you ACK, being completely outshined in the area of Internet drama and shame in the community must have been a blow"

I'm not surprised that someone is attacking me as a person instead of my arguments, that's par for the course. FWIW: if you can't post without personally attacking someone, you're not supporting your argument - you're undermining it

Also, armchair psychologists are a big problem.
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I'm not surprised that someone is attacking me as a person instead of my arguments, that's par for the course. FWIW: if you can't post without personally attacking someone, you're not supporting your argument - you're undermining it

The amount of butthurt this subject has generated is quite amusing to say the least

I was referring to this post, your return which is itself an action and not a part of your character, and your facetious posts which infer that ethics in regard to data handing, to which data handling and protection laws owe their origin, are completely arbitrary. My mention to being outshined is to demarcate a milestone, in comparison to something that was not so much your person, as the impact of a series of internet jokes/culture. This was a pretty memorable event, don't take it personally.

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"data handing and ethics"

 

It's still a red herring. A database full of forum passwords that no one is going to do anything with is a distraction from the issue: why they left. You yourself should understand considering you've been very adamant against "BHP" before you were recruited by them, alongside Pushwall and sith_wampa.

 

I'm not taking your replies personally. A "personal attack" used in context is "attacking the character of the person instead of their argument", not that I'm feeling indignant. ;-)

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someone who enjoys to assume what people's motivations are as well as psychoanalyse BHP and it's members with your buddies on a separate forum entirely.

14c.jpg

the issue: why they left.

This isn't the issue though, this is a post referring to an APB dev blog, and so involves things about BHP, their goings-on and userbase. We took this attempt to uproot the playerbase through authentication data theft very seriously as it didn't involve the consent of those involved (ie the webmaster or userbase).

You yourself should understand considering you've been very adamant against "BHP" before you were recruited by them, alongside Pushwall and sith_wampa.

Nonsense, back when MP-Gaming was around I didn't buy into the clash. That was back when you used to hang about with us on IRC in some attempt to keep tabs on BHP wasn't it? Those were destructible times :~). Edited by Souljack
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[8:12pm] <Aircraftkiller> I'm still banned
[8:12pm] <Aircraftkiller> Forever apparently
[8:13pm] <&sith_wampa> good
[8:13pm] <&sith_wampa> nobody likes Aircraftkiller
[8:29pm] <Souljack> Or anyone who hurts their delicate feelings
[8:29pm] <Souljack> or points out fallacies that someone has made within a thread
[8:57pm] <Aircraftkiller> Why, are you banned too?
[10:20pm] <&sith_wampa> silent ban remember?
[10:51pm] <Aircraftkiller> All of you got banned huh
[11:07pm] <&sith_wampa> just me


***

[9:36am] <14Souljack> Don't have the nuts to ban people outright

***


I don't mind that you've changed your position entirely but it's just odd that you won't own up to what you used to believe. Nice JC Denton macro, though.

Edited by Aircraftkiller
Please learn to quote text from other sources, mostly for readability.
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Yeah I was expecting he'd be banned rather than what happened to him. IIRC people on mod queue back then seldom had posts approved, in stark contrast to now. Why are you conflating my opinion about a moderation decision someone made in 2011 or something with the notion of me being against BHP? Aside from being fallacious, it's completely off topic.

 

And who has 12 hour timestamps?! My word :o

Edited by Souljack

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Hey, you're right. It is off-topic - very much like how it's completely off-topic to discuss "ethics" when the core issue is and always has been the reason for the split.

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Just out curiosity sake. If W3D Hub used a cloned copy BHP's database to set up and start their forums, did they also clone the BHP IP.Board files as well? I would assume they legally purchased a new copy of IP.Board.

 

Makes no difference to me, I don't care either way. But I only asked because I see the Licensed to text at the bottom of the page on BHP's forums, just as you see it here at CNCNZ.com. But I don't see it on W3D Hub's forums. And yes I know its an optional thing to display.

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W3D hub has its own license. I read that in some other thread a while back. In fact their license included a few less plugins than the original BHP board, and the W3D hub forum indeed doesn't have those plugins.

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14c.jpg

Yup. If I'm not mistaken you are Chizuru:

 

dwp36e.png

 

By the way, you have a mole.

Edited by One Winged Angel
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We're getting a little tired of "BHP"/APB’s side of the argument being heard. For the past month it seems that all I keep reading is how "BHP" has been victimized and how CJ was blindsided by this. This post will definitely clear up a few things and then I'm going to go back to developing games; I think that’s something we all should be doing instead of wasting our time with this trivial drama that is being spun. Let me break it down.

Considering that I am actually in charge of "BHP", let me make it officially known this wasn't done "legitimately" or with any discussion.

Truth: Actually OWA and CJ started Bluehell Productions together. Both were supposed to be equal partners. Although OWA allowed Chronojam to take certain liberties with how the community was run, if any conflicts of interest arose, they were discussed and solved. recently Chronojam had taken a leave to deal with issues in his personal life, appointing Catalyst to manage the website in his stead. This resulted in Catalyst completely disrespecting OWA and undermining his authority as well as placing the Lead Moderator, Souljack, above all of the founders and actual content creators of "BHP". At one point Souljack was even made “Lead Admin” in an attempt to provoke a response from OWA. If that isn’t unethical, then I don’t know what is.

 

Examples:1

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1bkp5962u52wrd/post-7924-0-37786500-1424192221.png?dl=0

Fig 1: triattack fielding a legitimate point against Catalyst and getting a disrespectful answer.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wcwt0y1z5r1y5ny/post-7924-0-04111000-1424192229.png?dl=0

Fig 2: OWA (rightful co-founder of "BHP") trying to assert authority over Catalyst and getting a disrespectful answer.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3u1apns8bqv6qb/profile.jpg?dl=0

Fig 3: Catalyst misleading users into thinking that he is in charge of "BHP" by use of a profile image.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofm7qkhqcayhfux/post-7924-0-77394600-1424192236.png?dl=0

Fig 4: Catalyst throwing his weight around and trying to influence staff decisions (bearing in mind that this guy is supposed to be the web host).

First, this move was done without warning or consent

Truth: OWA (AR Lead) and TeamWolf (TSR Lead at the time) contacted CJ to WARN him about issues going on with Catalyst. CJ shrugged the issues off and neglected them even after being WARNED that if it wasn't handled that there would be a split. OWA and TeamWolf don’t need consent to move their projects.

I mean, come on, write your own rules and terms if you think those rules and terms contributed to disagreements-- that makes sense, right?

Truth: The "BHP" rules are actually an edited copy of the rules from SomethingAwful.com forums.

 

"BHP" Community: They stole our launcher

Truth: The launcher is/was/and always will be danpaul88’s. Just because he decided to use “"BHP"” branding on it, does not mean that he does not reserve the rights to change it.

 

Fun Fact: The launcher they are currently using was made by danpaul88, and he has never denied "BHP” access to it. They still had access when it was moved to W3D Hub but catalyst (the web host) demanded its removal from the launcher before even Chronojam or Truyuri (actual staff/boss/founder). Proving again there is doubt as to who really is in charge of "BHP"/APB

This "new site" include all sorts of "old" things; private messages, contact e-mail addresses, birthdays, moderator discussion, staffing and recruitment, even things like my own wedding planning process from an older hidden subforum that apparently became exposed.

Truth: Nobody gained access suddenly to any personal data that they didn’t already have. danpaul88 was the only one who ever had access to the forum database, so if complaints are being made about personal data being used maliciously, they are pretty dubious. This argument is **** if OWA wasn’t an admin with all db access

 

There was one complaint made by a user known as “Griever” saying that they had their Facebook profile link leaked by W3D Hub, however we have logs of a "BHP" user known as “ChronOS” leaking these details Prior to any W3D events. We will not re-link the log in the interest of protecting Griever’s privacy, unlike others.

 

All of the forum content was copied yes… But we had every intention of getting rid of anything not directly related to our projects once we launched. However, due the fact that our public release was rushed, it was not done in time. Also, all the users passwords are encrypted and safe so even if we had any interest in extrapolating data and using it maliciously (which we don’t because we’re Renegade modders, not black hat hackers), we wouldn’t be able to.

Stealing a community site's content and planning malicious acts? That's no bueno.

No malicious acts were planned. Anything that you have seen from our internal boards has been grossly taken out of context.

 

We have been open to discussions and scrutineering from neutral third parties, but it seems that "BHP" does not wish to resolve this conflict, instead choosing to repeatedly regurgitate the same arguments and not move on. What is your goal here? What do you want from us?

For real, setting up a new community site is great!

Truth: OWA was banned on sight (and is still IP banned at his workplace) and many of us were put on moderator approval, so I doubt this enthusiasm is genuine.

This is all very troubling, and heightens my own concerns about the fact that many moderators now in place at W3D Hub were former moderators that were discharged from the "BHP" forums for repeated misconduct.

Truth: Truth: This “repeated misconduct” is an entirely subjective matter. The events that transpired happened on the SG server, which is out of BHP jurisdiction. There are logs to prove this. As far as we are concerned, said moderators were wrongly discharged.

If we are talking about moderator misconduct, the Lead Moderator at BHP, Souljack has done some things that are fairly questionable.

For example, putting everyone suspected to be from W3D Hub on moderator approval and not notifying those users as to the reasons why.

Discharging moderators for using spawning commands on a game server when he himself was also taking part in using them.

Reverting changes made to the server by developers.

Unbanning all of the banned users on the game server without a formal voting process.

Letting troublesome users insult developers publically without consequence.

 

Using the user account of a dead friend in poor taste to support an argument to why we didn’t delete certain profiles against our supposed “ethics”, when in reality we kept said friend account around to respect his memory.

All of this and more is reason enough for us to not have any confidence in Souljack’s ability to moderate effectively.

 

Example:

<19:12:10> "Amber": i don't want to talk to your ****y children

<19:13:09> "Amber": **** off go ****ing slice your neck so your bleed out too deatj

 

<19:25:37> You were kicked from channel "HOO RAH, Little bird" by "Frashy" (You're kind of a dick)

 

 

<19:40:16> "[sSG]-ChronOS": wally go ****ing bury yourself alive you ****

<19:40:48> "[sSG]-ChronOS": too ****ing right you don't deserver to live

 

<19:56:23> "probably not a goat": **** ** **** WALLYWOOD YOU ****ING ******

 

<20:26:32> "|TS| Catalyst | Work": Yeah, riced you out of the community, so i went back ;)

(When asked why the name change)

 

Anyone thinking that we just up and left without any reason isn’t paying attention or is refusing to see what is right in front of their face. AND if you’d like to know why we left, take a look at the recurring theme here, I’m sure it’ll be the Catalyst you’re looking for.

 

TL;DR- Has proof, done with the drama. Going back to work on Tiberian Sun Reborn.

Edited by Wallywood
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To anyone who doubts it's plausible that someone would try to hold the forum hostage: despite his current projected aura of smug aloofness, the one and only ACK attempted this very thing a few years back.

 

To Ben: It's bad form to include IP addresses in screenshots taken as a forum staffer.

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@Wallywood, your post sort repeats it self there for some reason I think. You may want to edit that.

 

All of the forum content was copied yes… But we had every intention of getting rid of anything not directly related to our projects once we launched. However, due the fact that our public release was rushed, it was not done in time.

 

This is the only part that doesn't sit well with me. And probably doesn't for other people I guess. I couldn't care a less about all your other in fighting and bickering. All of you BHP/W3D Hub are the ones coming in here to air your dirty laundry, not us. The fact is you took the BHP database, cloned it and set up your site. Giving you an "insta-community" of sorts. This is not how you lay the foundations of a new site or community, by copying another one. That would be like one of our team here at CNCNZ.com taking our database and setting up another C&C fan site elsewhere to basically compete with it. I would have serious issues if that were to happen.

 

As for your rushed release. Well you only have yourselves to blame for that Plan things better so you don't **** it up and make W3D Hub look bad in the process. But if you had started fresh without a copied database it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

 

The comments I've made here are my own, its how I see things. The official CNCNZ.com view point is we remain neutral and still plan to cover/promote APB, TSR and AR as much as possible regardless of this ongoing BHP/W3D Hub mess.

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To anyone who doubts it's plausible that someone would try to hold the forum hostage: despite his current projected aura of smug aloofness, the one and only ACK attempted this very thing a few years back.

 

To Ben: It's bad form to include IP addresses in screenshots taken as a forum staffer.

 

If by a few years, you mean 2006? Nine years ago? And specifically what happened: I refused to give up my art assets to people who wanted to work on APB unless they could conclusively prove that they were going to be able to do the work I was doing, which at the time consisted of level editing, editing LevelEdit presets, sounds, textures, vehicles, and buildings. Seeing as how my buildings and maps and textures and sounds are still in APB 11 years later, I can see I was mistaken allowing anyone to continue it.

 

If you're going to troll, troll harder or don't troll at all.

 

This is not how you lay the foundations of a new site or community

 

Apparently it is, because that's what they did. Regarding neutrality, you don't come off as neutral whatsoever by regurgitating APB talking points. Let's not pretend that this is about ethics in database handling. The root of this issue is the way that "community" was run - or rather run into the ground. I have yet to see anyone address why two major development teams and founding members of "BHP" left without using the "ethics" red herring to try and distract from the actual issue. Of course I'm not surprised that you're typing up APB talking points considering CJ's done stuff for you in the past. That's fine, and I understand, but let's at least be honest here and stop with the veneer of neutrality.

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@Aircraftkiller can you please learn to quote other posts correctly. This breaks up large wall of text and generally presents things better is the discussion.

 

Regarding neutrality, you don't come off as neutral whatsoever by regurgitating APB talking points. Let's not pretend that this is about ethics in database handling. The root of this issue is the way that "community" was run - or rather run into the ground. I have yet to see anyone address why two major development teams and founding members of "BHP" left without using the "ethics" red herring to try and distract from the actual issue. Of course I'm not surprised that you're typing up APB talking points considering CJ's done stuff for you in the past. That's fine, and I understand, but let's at least be honest here and stop with the veneer of neutrality.

 

I guess I didn't explain things to well, my bad. CNCNZ.com as a collective remains neutral on all of this. CNCNZ.com is not taking any sides. Me personally, yeah I tend favour BHP here. Probably because Chronojam has helped me in the past and I've dealt with him on all matters concerning CNCNZ.com, BHP and APB. But mostly because I don't really know or have had very little do with anyone from TSR etc...

 

This why I have to be careful when commenting and replying in news topics, especially in topics of a controversial nature such as this one. Because of my position as the Webmaster/Founder/Admin appears to be taken publicly as to what all of team here think and feel. I suggest you and everyone else get to learn our little disclaimers, particularly this one....

 

Disclaimer: News Comments on CNCNZ.com
The views expressed by each individual in the news comments (replies to each news thread) are their own, and do not reflect the official view of CNCNZ.com, unless otherwise stated.

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By the way, you have a mole.

Except, the IP addresses that pulled these screenshots have been traced back to Softlayer (Read, Strike) (where SQL logs have confirmed illegal sql injection)

and means have been put in prevent this from happening in the future.

Edited by Catalyst

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This is the only part that doesn't sit well with me. And probably doesn't for other people I guess. I couldn't care a less about all your other in fighting and bickering. All of you BHP/W3D Hub are the ones coming in here to air your dirty laundry, not us. The fact is you took the BHP database, cloned it and set up your site. Giving you an "insta-community" of sorts. This is not how you lay the foundations of a new site or community, by copying another one.

And with that, you once again fail to see the big picture.

That would be like one of our team here at CNCNZ.com taking our database and setting up another C&C fan site elsewhere to basically compete with it. I would have serious issues if that were to happen.

It's incomparable. Teams within BHP before the separation were decentralized and split enough for them to depart. All they were really interested in were TSR and AR blogs.

As for your rushed release. Well you only have yourselves to blame for that Plan things better so you don't **** it up and make W3D Hub look bad in the process. But if you had started fresh without a copied database it wouldn't have been an issue in the first place.

The reason why they hasted it was because they were caught before they had a chance to clean up.

 

 

And did you SERIOUSLY say you (personally, so creeps don't think it's site-wide) favour BHP just because you had 0 contact with TSR and AR developers OUT LOUD? :o

 

Edit:

Examples:1[/size]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1bkp5962u52wrd/post-7924-0-37786500-1424192221.png?dl=0

Fig 1: triattack fielding a legitimate point against Catalyst and getting a disrespectful answer.[/size]

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wcwt0y1z5r1y5ny/post-7924-0-04111000-1424192229.png?dl=0

Fig 2: OWA (rightful co-founder of "BHP") trying to assert authority over Catalyst and getting a disrespectful answer.[/size]

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/o3u1apns8bqv6qb/profile.jpg?dl=0

Fig 3: Catalyst misleading users into thinking that he is in charge of "BHP" by use of a profile image.[/size]

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofm7qkhqcayhfux/post-7924-0-77394600-1424192236.png?dl=0

Fig 4: Catalyst throwing his weight around and trying to influence staff decisions (bearing in mind that this guy is supposed to be the web host).[/size]

Well well well, doesn't this sound like pure maxed out ego...
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W3D Hub action explanations excluded, could people please stop looking at the smoke screen arguments about ethics and what is the right/wrong way to start a community and start focusing on the main issue which even ACK pointed out numerous times -> WHY so many developers left BHP even after trying to get issues solved and all of the sent warnings about ongoing problems.

 

Not HOW they left.

Edited by AZ-Stalker

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To Ben: It's bad form to include IP addresses in screenshots taken as a forum staffer.

I've removed the ip addresses from my image, I forgot to remove them when I put it up. Cheers for the catch there! This screenshot isn't of the BHP forums, but of the Terr0r Squad BHP Psychoanalysis forum. I didn't take the screenshot, but someone with an account on that forum did.

Except, the IP addresses that pulled these screenshots have been traced back to Softlayer (Read, Strike) (where SQL logs have confirmed illegal sql injection)

and means have been put in prevent this from happening in the future.

The person who provided me with that screenshot is definitely not Strike. It's from a user on those forums.

Edited by One Winged Angel

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@Aircraftkiller can you please learn to quote other posts correctly. This breaks up large wall of text and generally presents things better is the discussion.

 

 

I guess I didn't explain things to well, my bad. CNCNZ.com as a collective remains neutral on all of this. CNCNZ.com is not taking any sides. Me personally, yeah I tend favour BHP here. Probably because Chronojam has helped me in the past and I've dealt with him on all matters concerning CNCNZ.com, BHP and APB. But mostly because I don't really know or have had very little do with anyone from TSR etc...

 

This why I have to be careful when commenting and replying in news topics, especially in topics of a controversial nature such as this one. Because of my position as the Webmaster/Founder/Admin appears to be taken publicly as to what all of team here think and feel. I suggest you and everyone else get to learn our little disclaimers, particularly this one....

 

I hate this version of IPB and I don't generally use quote tags because copy/pasting doesn't work the way I preferred it to. If you know a method to get IPB to copy/paste [ quote ] tags, that'd be great.

 

Regardless of what CNCNZ does or doesn't do, you represent your community. It doesn't mean much to be the face of your community and then say "What I say doesn't reflect on CNCNZ". No one would've accepted that as a response back when the Reborn/APB fight was going on in 2003-2006 because I was the face of APB, and as a result I spoke for it. When you publicly side with APB using Fox News-like disinformation in order to build up a narrative that doesn't back objective reality, you're putting CNCNZ into the position where it also appears to be partial toward APB. At this point I can't say that I trust that you'll handle news posts fairly.

 

Disclaimers don't change opinions, unfortunately. While you may feel that your opinions don't represent those of CNCNZ as a whole, perception is everything. I firmly believe that your posts here have built up a perception amongst the entire W3D Hub community and any impartial readers that you and the site have an obvious bias toward APB.

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That can only be answered with a firm "nope". He did state the official stance of the site, which is to cover both teams and sites like nothing ever happened, in addition to his personal stance. The fact that people tend to stupidly confuse the two when they are asked not to is a different thing.

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Personally I feel that everyone is entitled to express their own opinions on the matter and should if they want to. I still view CNCNZ as a neutral party as a whole and the fixing of the first post is much appreciated.

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Seeing as how my buildings and maps and textures and sounds are still in APB 11 years later, I can see I was mistaken allowing anyone to continue it.

 

If you're going to troll, troll harder or don't troll at all.

Minus the buildings, a great majority of the things you mentioned have been redone. I spent a good deal of time converting your things to 3ds max (including the building exteriors and interiors), fixing countless bugs, adding LOD, making new props (adding LOD and proxying them in the process), and completely redoing terrain (including the textures). Some of these fixes and changes have been in test builds only for a few years, so perhaps you are counting back to the last major art release, which was in 2011, a mere five years after you quit. It's funny to me that you would say eleven years in this context, when you quit nine years ago, and most of your things have been redone, many of which had even been redone by 2011's public release, while at the same time calling out BattleLaf for saying "a few years back" when it was a few more than a few. It's also funny that you would call someone else out on trolling after saying all of these things.

 

Personal lives and free time play a lot into development time. Did you have any job or school commitments when you made all of these things? I hate to refer back to the "starving cats lul" incident, but it appears you would be comparing apples and oranges here, or at the very least, comparing your achievements to those of others in a similar line of work, but ignoring everything else (e.g. free time, manpower, and necessity, which are all completely legitimate reasons to not have thoroughly completed certain elements of this unpaid job).

 

I hate this version of IPB and I don't generally use quote tags because copy/pasting doesn't work the way I preferred it to. If you know a method to get IPB to copy/paste [ quote ] tags, that'd be great.

I hated this too until I found "BBCode Mode," a small button at the top left of the post editor which lets you type, copy, and paste post elements including BBCode.

Edited by ChopBam

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