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10 Years of C&C 3: Tiberium Wars

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Exactly ten years ago, on the 26th of March 2007, Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars was released on PC in North America. Built upon the SAGE engine used in Generals and refined through the Battle for Middle-earth series, Tiberium Wars returned Command & Conquer to its roots with a long and exciting singleplayer mode with all three campaigns taking place simultaneously rather than only one being canon, the debut of the Scrin after a hint at their existence in Tiberian Sun, a great multiplayer mode that was oriented towards the eSports audience for the first time (let's not forget how the game was featured at WCG 2007), and lots of cool units and weapons at the players' disposal. Even some concepts from Westwood's C&C 3 project were reused! The game was released in Europe three days later, and was ported to Xbox 360 in May and Macintosh in August of the same year.

 

What are your favourite memories playing Tiberium Wars? What do you think of it ten years after its release? Let us know in the replies. Finally, if you're feeling nostalgic for the multiplayer, the C&C:Online server awaits you.

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Well, considering that I still mod this game to this day, I guess its safe to say I liked it :P

 

Thinking about it, I only got 2 main problems that come to mind:

 

1. The story didnt really pick up any of the threads left over from TS. Tacitus, Forgotten and CABAL (and a couple of other things) were just ignored - the addon certainly improved that regard, but it allways felt more like a followup to TD than TS. I wonder if they made the world and faction designs semi-futuristic because the wanted to appeal to Generals fans or if they were afraid that to futuristic units might draw comparrision with Starcraft - or if they really had no idea how to continue from TS (god, how I missed the Banshees).
The name "Tiberium Wars" was also incredible generic, a shame they didnt use something more in line with the earlier games :/

 

2. No idea if it was because of their plans for esports or because of a lack of time, but the factions seemed very similiar. Sure, different models and names, but a couple of units felt like they were simply added to balance the unit rooster - the prime example would be the Avatar which allways seemed to exist simply because Nod needed a counterpart to the Mammoth & Tripod.
Come to think off, I really wish they would have used a different build mechanic for the Scrin instead of using the MCV logic...

 

Personally, I consider TW the last good CnC - the series really went downhill from there :(

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12 hours ago, Stygs said:

I wonder if they made the world and faction designs semi-futuristic because the wanted to appeal to Generals fans or if they were afraid that to futuristic units might draw comparrision with Starcraft

 

What do you mean by that?

 

12 hours ago, Stygs said:

Come to think off, I really wish they would have used a different build mechanic for the Scrin instead of using the MCV logic...

 

Not sure how well that'd have turned out, since all C&C games had more or less the same build mechanics for all sides in a single game, be it through ConYards or Dozers/Workers. This assymetry would've been harder to balance out - and sadly, C&C games aren't quite known for their balance. Also, Greg Black said on his Twitter yesterday that they only had 11 months to create the game, and there's only so much you can do in that time...

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1 hour ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

all C&C games had more or less the same build mechanics for all sides in a single game, be it through ConYards or Dozers/Workers.

There were also EotRS's nanocores, which were kind of a fusion between a ConYard and a dozer.

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Yeah, but they were produced from the MCV.

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Indeed, which is why I said there were kind of a fusion between the two.

 

Nanocore-type construction would have actually been pretty good for Scrin. Their "ConYard" could have been a deployed wormhole generator to the mothership where Scrin structures were fabricated, then teleported to the surface as a little floating package that moved to a build site and assembled itself.

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4 hours ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

 

What do you mean by that?

 

I mean that most of the units in TW arent that advanced if you think about it - if you ignore the obvious alien faction and the huge mechs, you could add TWs GDI and Nod into CnC Generals and most of the units would not feel out of place as they are basicly modern/near future designs (talking about TW here, not KW).

Sure, a Predator tank looks kinda futuristic but gameplaywise its not different from a Crusader Tank. Heck, even a Paladin Tank with its laser defense feels more high tech than the Predator.

Compare that to Starcraft or TT were you had space fighter, flying aircraft carrier, space battleships, mobile bases and other sci fi units.

 

Since TW GDI allways seemed a bit like a mix between Gen USA and China, I was wondering if that was somewhat intended to draw in more Generals fans.

 

Edit: Yeah, something like Nanocore-type construction might have worked well to make the aliens more unique.

Edited by Stygs

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Well, except for Banshees, GDI and Nod weren't that flashy in Tiberian Sun compared to Tiberium Wars, IMO.

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Titans, Hover MLRSs, Disruptors, underground vehicles, cyborgs (again, talking about TW and not KW), deployable tanks and arty, laser fences and the firestorm defense come to mind.

Might be just my personal taste, but I found the factions in TS a lot more interesting,

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Walkers existed in TW for all three sides, Disruptors likely inspired the Sonic Emitter (and later the Shatterer), Juggernauts (and later Spectres) were static when firing (cutting out the middle-man in the form of manual deployment fits the game well IMO), laser fencing existed as a support power.

 

Subterranean units are a good point, though.

 

Taste is a different story :)

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Well,

 

The thing is,that a lot of things seemed SciFi in TS, but less so in TTW.

 

As time went on, people began to realize, what  this stuff was actually modern warfare, not SciFi.

 

Stealth tech and cloaking existed for a long time, and was popular for a long time, remember that 007 movie? in the ice castle thing?

 

It's great we have had 10 years of such an iconic game,  it's a pity EA will likely ot do anything about it tho.

 

 

 

 

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The game was not perfect, but it was a step in the right direction at least. Very enjoyable to play for sure in the very least. :) Kane's Wrath was a nice expansion as well. Sadly I think this was the last time C&C had a chance of coming back in the limelight...:(

Edited by neojames82

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If you could change one thing in TW then what would it be? I would have liked larger map sizes so I can build a larger base.

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Get the Worldbuilder and make some :P

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Guest Rabbit

If I could have changed anything it would have been the return of Tiberium lifeforms.

 

When I think about the Tiberian series in general, I think about visceroids, fiends, etc.  I wish they'd had the time to add all that stuff in.  Instead, tiberium lifeforms were more or less forgotten.

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32 minutes ago, Zee Hypnotist said:

tiberium lifeforms were more or less forgotten.

But they included the Forgotten. :P

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1 hour ago, Zee Hypnotist said:

If I could have changed anything it would have been the return of Tiberium lifeforms.

 

When I think about the Tiberian series in general, I think about visceroids, fiends, etc.  I wish they'd had the time to add all that stuff in.  Instead, tiberium lifeforms were more or less forgotten.

 

Kinda doubt they would have added lifeforms even with more time - since EA retconned Tiberium to turn basicly everything into crystals (unlike TD/TS Tiberium), they found a way to avoid having any kind of Tiberium lifeform. Guess if fits better with the "Aliens want to harvest the earth" backstory...

 

I would have wished either for more tiberium lifeforms or a better campaign (or rather cinematics). Would have loved a branching storyline that allowed the player to help Killian against the aliens. :/

Edited by Stygs

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Actually, where did the idea of Kane knowledge of Tiberium origins came from? In TD we have just some scumbag who wants to overthrow GDI and take control over the world... I guess. We are even pointed out, that Brotherhood of Nod have the biggest shares in Tiberium harvest, even though Dr. Mobius worked for GDI... It was never explained how Brotherhood gained know-how about Tiberium, but we can just assume it was from Kane. 

Although, in TS we were told that whole Kane's knowledge about Tiberium comes from the thing called Tacitus, it's existence was never mentioned before 2nd Tiberium War. It is some filler to gaps in the backstory, but again if Scrin's ship crashed on Earth with Tacitus as some kind of "database", why Nod's Tiberium harvesting technology is similar to GDI's? Wouldn't they use much more complex and futuristic technology? It's not like they've hidden their newest achievements (Banshee, Cyborgs etc.)... 

 

And then TW happened, with the even more twisted story...

The Kane motives are even more... unknown. On the one hand, he orders one of his loyal generals (us) to fight with GDI, and on the other, he orders his new loyal AI (us) to do the opposite. Like, what kind of sense is it? The whole Brotherhood is gathered around "Tiberium future", so they wouldn't make an argue with "messiah" to call for aliens... Also, if Tratos deciphered parts of Tacitus along with Kane when he was a refugee, why didn't he mention - in many conversations with GDI - that somewhere, out there are... ALIENS!? Has he forgotten to mention that? I won't even bother with Tacitus thread in TW because it seems that GDI doesn't give a damn about this thing at all. Especially, if this "database" was for use to clean the Earth from Tiberium! 

 

IDK, maybe I'm too nitpicky, but I view TT as the most coherent story since TD. Duh, it was stupid, but at least comprehensible. 

 

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This is as I understand it, which due to intentionally unanswered questions, changing canon, and perhaps some oversights, may be utterly wrong.

 

Kane knew some about tiberium and aliens before the Scrin ship crashed in TS because he is an alien (though a different species from Scrin). After the Tacitus was recovered, he had far better knowledge on how to decipher it because he was an alien and knew of the Scrin. Tratos probably knew a tiny fraction of what Kane did, and I'm sure Kane made sure he only found out exactly what Kane wanted him to find out.

 

Nod's technology would more closely resemble GDI's because they are based on Earth's technology with alien enhancements. They never acquired sufficient knowledge to tip that balance toward Scrin technology.

 

In TW, Kane is manipulating everyone and "betraying" Earth by calling the Scrin. Nobody other than Kane himself knew the Scrin were coming or why, and his plans all led up to calling the Scrin and letting them finish a tower.

 

I'm not really sure what you mean concerning GDI not caring about the Tacitus in TW. It might not have been the foremost objective, but especially with KW, they obviously did care.

 

I actually am not very familiar with the TT story though, as I never finished the campaign out of boredom.

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1 hour ago, Nmenth said:

Kane knew some about tiberium and aliens before the Scrin ship crashed in TS because he is an alien

 

If he was an alien, what is his relationship to Abel? 

 

 

The stone \ sarcophagus in the last shots of the ending is supposed to be Abel's. If so, then there were 2 aliens on Earth long before Tiberium. The biblical origins of Kane have some proofs in C&C: Renegade, but it's thrown to trash with C&C3 and it's horrible successor. 

 

2 hours ago, Nmenth said:

After the Tacitus was recovered, he had far better knowledge on how to decipher it because he was an alien and knew of the Scrin. Tratos probably knew a tiny fraction of what Kane did, and I'm sure Kane made sure he only found out exactly what Kane wanted him to find out.

1

 

You don't know that. Frankly, I think even creators wouldn't be able to make clear answer to this.

However, this drags another question: What about CABAL's deciphered parts of Tacitus? In TS:FS he had the whole thing at his... hand (I guess?) and used the "database" to build his army, but the thing is that CABAL based his translation of Tacitus upon Tratos work. So it is impossible for both of them not to spot even a fraction of data gathering info about Scrins and yatta-yatta-yatta... 

 

There's a huge gap in the story concerning Tacitus and who-read-what. 

 

2 hours ago, Nmenth said:

Nod's technology would more closely resemble GDI's because they are based on Earth's technology with alien enhancements. They never acquired sufficient knowledge to tip that balance toward Scrin technology.

 

 

However, GDI watching what machines Nod is capable of they'd at least put some more effort in translating Tacitus. 

 

2 hours ago, Nmenth said:

In TW, Kane is manipulating everyone and "betraying" Earth by calling the Scrin. Nobody other than Kane himself knew the Scrin were coming or why, and his plans all led up to calling the Scrin and letting them finish a tower.

 

 

The point is the Tiberium Towers were raised to synchronize with alien stargate. So it had info about star traveling otherwise, Kane wouldn't know how to build them. 

 

3 hours ago, Nmenth said:

I'm not really sure what you mean concerning GDI not caring about the Tacitus in TW. It might not have been the foremost objective, but especially with KW, they obviously did care.

 

 

With abysmal results. 

 

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5 hours ago, Traymen said:

If he was an alien, what is his relationship to Abel? 

 

That was always an unanswered question. Westwood liked keeping it a mystery, and as far as I know, EA dropped the story entirely. If I were to fill in the blanks myself, I would conclude that Abel was also an alien who arrived on Earth with Kane.

 

5 hours ago, Traymen said:

So it is impossible for both of them not to spot even a fraction of data gathering info about Scrins

 

I disagree. The Tacitus is apparently exceedingly difficult to decode, and if Kane had an advantage over everyone else, it is entirely possible for him to be the only one to have gotten that far.

 

5 hours ago, Traymen said:

GDI watching what machines Nod is capable of they'd at least put some more effort in translating Tacitus. 

 

Nod's machines were not particularly powerful. They still lost the war.

 

5 hours ago, Traymen said:

Kane wouldn't know how to build them. 

 

Kane never did know how to build them. He needed the Scrin to do it for him. If he didn't need the Scrin, he would have never needed to call them or even spread tiberium in the first place.

 

5 hours ago, Traymen said:

With abysmal results. 

 

That only speaks to GDI's incompetence, not their determination.

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49 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

That was always an unanswered question. Westwood liked keeping it a mystery, and as far as I know, EA dropped the story entirely. If I were to fill in the blanks myself, I would conclude that Abel was also an alien who arrived on Earth with Kane.

 
 
 

 

But that doesn't hold up. 

According to Kane's dossier, the Brotherhood was found thousands of years B.C. How could organization centralized around Tiberium survive that long? If we even build a story around two aliens, who one day start an argue between themselves - let's say about future of humanity - how could one gather people around him without one of the main factors like... I don't know... Tiberium? 

I would've bought it if all of this was just a mystification. That organization was built in late 90's, Kane is in the late forties and whole technology used by Brotherhood is based upon work of Tratos and CABAL. That is comprehensible and it would follow with awareness of fake news. GDI warned how shady is Kane and Brotherhood, but nobody listened till the curtain fell. 

 

49 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

I disagree. The Tacitus is apparently exceedingly difficult to decode, and if Kane had an advantage over everyone else, it is entirely possible for him to be the only one to have gotten that far.

 
 
 

 

You don't know that. 

According to C&C Wiki "Tratos learned to decode it". It's pretty incisive statement, isn't it? We were never told how advanced were Tratos, CABAL's and Kane's translations of Tacitus. We were just told that Kane is swift in it, but how others proceeded - that's only speculation. 

 

49 minutes ago, Nmenth said:
3 hours ago, Traymen said:

 

Nod's machines were not particularly powerful. They still lost the war.

 
 

I am not sure if it was the fault of technology or Kane's... complex schemes... 

 

49 minutes ago, Nmenth said:

Kane never did know how to build them. He needed the Scrin to do it for him. If he didn't need the Scrin, he would have never needed to call them or even spread tiberium in the first place.

 
1

 

Towers were raised to synch with Scrins stargates. If blueprints of Towers were held in Tacitus - and we may assume it from the very first cutscene in TW - then there also must've been a detailed note what these Towers exactly do. If so, they also contained plans of how to synch those Towers to Scrin stargate and loop starts all over again. 

 

In any case for some reason, he doesn't know about Towers for three wars he started. Wouldn't be more convenient to build Towers before Scrin attack so he could ascend without this worthless effort of three meaningless wars? All he had to do was to gather enough Tiberium (49% in shares!) and blow it up. GDI wouldn't disturb him because he would be cleansing Earth from Tiberium. Gosh, they would even dump their own reserves for good of human kind. 

 

 

 

Edited by Traymen

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3 hours ago, Traymen said:

The stone \ sarcophagus in the last shots of the ending is supposed to be Abel's. If so, then there were 2 aliens on Earth long before Tiberium. The biblical origins of Kane have some proofs in C&C: Renegade, but it's thrown to trash with C&C3 and it's horrible successor.

 

IDB entry from KW:

 

"Excerpt from private audiologs of the prophet Kane

[...]My brothers, the departed, are surely looking down on me in contempt. After millenia, their ultimate vision of my fate has been realised. [...] ...and then, truly, shall this pitiful world - and my dear departed brothers - know my wrath."

 

From the sound of it, I would guess Eden was another planet and Kane was cast out of there, forced to wander the planet Earth forever. He might even be the last survivor of a groupr of aliens left on earth.

After all, during TS, TW and TT his plan is basicly: Get enough Tiberium to call the Scrin, capture their tower, leave earth.

 

 

3 hours ago, Traymen said:

However, this drags another question: What about CABAL's deciphered parts of Tacitus? In TS:FS he had the whole thing at his... hand (I guess?) and used the "database" to build his army, but the thing is that CABAL based his translation of Tacitus upon Tratos work. So it is impossible for both of them not to spot even a fraction of data gathering info about Scrins and yatta-yatta-yatta... 

 

There's a huge gap in the story concerning Tacitus and who-read-what.

 

Keep in mind that neither Kane, Tratos or CABAL had both parts of the Tacitus. Maybe they where unable to read some parts.

 

Also: What makes you think CABAL didnt knew about the Scrin? After all, here was absolutly no reason why he should have informed anyone about them. And Kane knew as he wanted to call them.

 

 

Quote

Towers were raised to synch with Scrins stargates. If blueprints of Towers were held in Tacitus - and we may assume it from the very first cutscene in TW - then there also must've been a detailed note what these Towers exactly do. If so, they also contained plans of how to synch those Towers to Scrin stargate and loop starts all over again. 

 

Are you talking about the large alien towers in TW/TT? Those were build by the scrin to act as portals but where never activated (or deactivated when the Scrin lost).

It took Kane about 15 years (until TT) till he found a way to activate the portals again.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Traymen said:

According to Kane's dossier, the Brotherhood was found thousands of years B.C. How could organization centralized around Tiberium survive that long? If we even build a story around two aliens, who one day start an argue between themselves - let's say about future of humanity - how could one gather people around him without one of the main factors like... I don't know... Tiberium? 

 

How they could survive this long? Maybe like any other religion survives for centurys?

Maybe it was a doomsday cult about a green stone from the sky that would kill all non believers, or maybe Kane never mentioned Tiberium untill it appeared.

Keep in mind that Kane is an immortal that never ages. Thats bound to get him some followers.

It also seems that before TD, Nod seems to be a rather small organisation connected with many underground groups.

Edited by Stygs

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11 minutes ago, Stygs said:

From the sound of it, I would guess Eden was another planet and Kane was cast out of there, forced to wander the planet Earth forever. He might even be the last survivor of a groupr of aliens left on earth.

 
 

 

For me, it sounds like gibberish for followers in some sect. 

 

13 minutes ago, Stygs said:

After all, during TS, TW and TT his plan is basicly: Get enough Tiberium to call the Scrin, capture their tower, leave earth.

 

OK, let's stop here for a moment. 

In the last cutscene for Nod in TS, Kane is launching a missile which transforms Earth into Tiberium field. So he had enough resources to do so. The only - feasible - reason why he doesn't launch the rocket could be the GDI air-defence system around the world. After taking down GDI - with its high command - there's literally nothing to stop him. But then again, if all he need is to blow up sufficient quantity of Tiberium, why does he bother with rocket, especially if he's - according to dossier - superintelligent? 

 

23 minutes ago, Stygs said:

 

Also: What makes you think CABAL didnt knew about the Scrin? After all, here was absolutly no reason why he should have informed anyone about them.

 

 

What makes you think he did not know? Kane didn't tell us about his real plan for like three wars. 

 

I just find it interesting that Westwood didn't come up to an idea of CABAL - in exchange for peace - tells everything he knows about Tacitus, enlightening how important it is to decipher it and kill Kane. After all, he went mental just because he could, amirite? 

 

30 minutes ago, Stygs said:

Are you talking about the large alien towers in TW/TT?

 

I am talking about TCN Towers. The ones which were built in cooperation with GDI upon data gathered in Tacitus. 

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2 hours ago, Traymen said:

According to C&C Wiki

 

The C&C Wiki is not really the most accurate source of information...

 

1 hour ago, Traymen said:

In the last cutscene for Nod in TS, Kane is launching a missile which transforms Earth into Tiberium field. So he had enough resources to do so. The only - feasible - reason why he doesn't launch the rocket could be the GDI air-defence system around the world. After taking down GDI - with its high command - there's literally nothing to stop him. But then again, if all he need is to blow up sufficient quantity of Tiberium, why does he bother with rocket, especially if he's - according to dossier - superintelligent? 

 

I'm not actually sure what you are trying to say here... but Kane's tiberium seeding rocket from TS was to produce more tiberium, a step toward making the tiberium explosion that would call the Scrin possible.

 

1 hour ago, Traymen said:

I am talking about TCN Towers.

 

Oh... I thought you were talking about the Threshold Towers...

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