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RKCoon

US Sen. puts motion to Censure Bush

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I believe there is one universal commandment that, if applied to everydamn person on this planet, would solve a million problems.

 

"Love thy neighbor as thyself"

 

Would you want your neighbor getting into his/her car with a block or 14 of C4 and leveling an apartment complex? No. (and if you do, get your face over here right now and meet my fist)

 

Would you want your neighbor to walk into your house and rape your wife and kill your children while you were away? No.

 

Would you want your neighbor to stage a coup de'tat and become the new ruler only to go about killing random people for random reasons? No.

 

Would you want your neighbor to kill your wife because she was Jewish by birth, but converted to marry? No.

 

ect ect

 

If you dont want it done to you, then dont do it to others. RKCoon, if you're gona quote scripture, please dont bucher it. In essence, what you were doing is as infurirorating as the Mohamed cartoons were to the Muslims. Except that the more level headed Christians arent declaring Jihad because of it. Oh wait, Christianity has no Jihad-esque proclamation. In fact, its impossible for Christianity to declare something like this.

 

BUT WAIT!! HITLER WAS A CHRISTIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!ELEVEN!!1!

 

And the Vaticain sent an outcry to the world to stop him before it got out of hand. Guess what happened? It got out of hand.

 

And quit comparing Bush to Hitler. We havent invaded anyone recently and occupied and oppressed the people agaisnt their will. We havent rounded up certain races and executed them. Notice how our "hatred" :roll: of Muslims is not hate, its caution. Ironic that every person who carried out 9/11 was Muslim, no? Ironic that the leader of Iran is Muslim and has openly declared that he will strike with nulcear arms at any and all US assets within his range if we twitch a finger against him. No?

 

Caution. Better where we are now, then in 5 years to say "now how did we not see that coming?" If we dont have preventative measures, people slam us for allowing terrorist attacks to happen. If we do, they slam us ofr being unfair. GIVE IT UP. I DONT CARE HOW "INFORMED" YOU ARE ( WAY OUT IN THE YUKON) BUT YOU WILL NOT GET US TO CHANGE BECAUSE OF YOUR POINTLES RANTING. THIS APPLIES TO ANY AND ALL "BUSH HATERS" BECAUSE 101.99% OF THEM SLAM BUSH BECAUSE THEY ARE TOO SHALLOW TO OPEN THEIR EYES AND LOOK AT ALL SIDES OF THE SITUATION.

(oops, I hit caps lock. too bad.....) :roll:

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-Also, just for those with very little knowledge of the Bible (and who like to react emotionally before processing it :roll:), Ananias and Sapphira weren't struck dead by God because they didn't give everything they have-

 

:snip:

 

Thanks for that. What you said is the long and short end of what religious scholars say about this, that is when their answer is "I dunno." :P I think one of the problems lies in interpretation, and not just how we interpret the Bible, but how the Bible itself is translated. The story of Ananias and Sapphira BWare basically covered, but here is what is usually said in the Bible.

 

Acts 5:10 - At that moment (Sapphira ) fell to her feet and died. Then the young men came in and, finding her dead, carried her out and buried her beside her husband. Great fear siezed the whole church and all who heard these events.

 

One translation of the story that I do not have my hands on just now changes it to something along the lines of "The church saw that God was not to be trifled with." Reading this translation I interpret that, yes, a sin had been committed, but it was God who put them to death, even though Jesus died for our sins. Is it wrong to look at the story this way? From what I know, yes it is. I think there was something about Ananias and Sapphira being made an example of, to not sin against the church. If we were to push this idea, we could say the same thing of America. Afghanistan, "do not attack America," Iraq, "do not mess with America and don't think you can hide behind the UN."

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Ironic that the leader of Iran is Muslim and has openly declared that he will strike with nulcear arms at any and all US assets within his range if we twitch a finger against him.

 

He is still declaring that the nuclear program is for peaceful purposes only and that they have no interntion of developing nuclear arms therefore he cant have stated this. And of cource any nation is gonna defent itself if it is attacked. If a superior force invaded America nukes would be used to defend also aswell.

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Nukes as a defence :rofl:

 

Yeah, right.

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That is their primary role nowdays. No nation is going to nuke prior to invading the whole world would be down on them in an instant. Although their main use is a deterrent towards agressor nations.

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If a country like Iran would have nukes I doubt it will be for defence reason :wink:

 

'Sides, it doesn't really provide a defence, since I doubt any country will allow any other country to fire nukes. That country would probably have huge U.N. problems after the nuke.

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U.N. is a failure.

 

The leader of Iran did state somethign along those lines, that if the US attemped airstrikes or political manuvering to stop Iran's nuclear research, then they would strike at us.

 

How he plans on aquiring ICBMs without anyone noticing is beyond me, but I wouldnt put it past them to try and do it.

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AAnnnnddd i see EXACTLY what i said would happen, happened, the right wingers got mega pissy... Which is fine, absolutely and totally expected from here. Now admittedly, i do have some of my facts off -- hell i think i SAID as much, at least in regards to my summary of the christian faith. however, i did NOT get ANYthing wrong in regards to my quoting of scriptures -- for i refused to take context from to or at ANY of the scriptures. i went with what i saw as stated, word for word. anything else is twisting whats there. (another notorious maneuver, i see.)

 

 

Allow my to sum up the fallacy known as the christian/catholic/hebrew/associated and similar faiths with but one idea. in all of these faiths, god created man in his own, god's, images. further god instilled "free will" in humanity, and free will has been the subject of blame of MUCH of what humanity has done, to supposedly "piss god off" or keep us out of heaven. Now, it seems odd to me that we would, or COULD, do things, in the image of "a supreme being" or "god" if we are the same as he is. what was lost in the transition? or is it to say that god "programmed" or more accurately, designed us, to do so? by givin us the element of C H O I C E , one of the key ingredients to humanity, and THEN giving us a rather lengthy and constrictive list of rules to follow, what was he hoping for?

 

me personally, id say (given this scenario) that either god ****ed up royally, in which case humanity was a mistake -- or god wants a replacement for himself.

 

 

Now, the IMPORTANT thing to keep in mind with all of this -- is that this is ALL my oppinion. as many of ya have been ever so vocal about -- im ONLY one lil knowitall fro mthe yukon. So im spouting off insanity, big deal ---- but please, tell me something kids: why ya gettin so pissed off at someone with a different take on things? are ya all that insecure in yourselves to attack that which isnt like yas? ;)

 

I do say, as i dont think i made it clear enough -- i repsect everyone, and i mean EVERYone's rightto beleive as they want -- but since everyone DOES in fact question others beleifs, challenges them and so on -- i will do the same on my own. Yer damned skippy i got my own beleifs -- and before anyone says im ramming mine down others throat, i shall remind you, it IS on a fecking computer screen -- i aint holding a gun to anyones head or threatening to blow up ANYthing if you peoples dont beleive.

 

(gee, think some people have some pent up hostility? XD)

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I guess so. I guess a few people here are just so pissed off that no one had been able to kill Bush yet, that there has not been enough American deaths in Iraq. It probably makes sense that they jump on a forum that, judging that it is for right wing war games is full of right wing people, with the sole objective of inciting anger, and then prance around like a ponce when they are given the desired response. :roll:

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The who and wha?

 

 

GL - i Do have somewhat of an apprecieation of sarcasm and wit, but i have to say -- that one REALLy eludes me. who ya aimin that at?

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Maybe that was a little too much for some to comprehend. Maybe this will suffice. The comment was aimed directly at the little troll who is trying to take quotes from the Bible out of context in order to justify their drival.

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RK, there have been thousands and thousands of books written on the very thing you're talking about- the paradox of free will. You're barely able to scratch the surface here, and yet you seem confused. Go read into it a bit (with good, credible sources though- not fanatical anti-Christian websites :roll:). You're very simple and absolute in your thinking here- a recipe for disaster in topics as deep as these.

 

Some advice- Don't go diving into deep theological waters if you don't know how to swim.

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GL - that was me being nice and confirming it -- before i go and suggest your a few bricks short of a full load, for suggesting i think there needs to be more american blood spilt, or that im just seeing what i can do to piss off the masses (which, i have to say,is becoming easyer, if less intentional, by the post :lol: )

 

 

Bware - (wheres the insert sarcasm button?) Ever take a moment to consider ALL im doing is scratching the surface? or, more accurately -- pointing out that your side isnt near as rosy keen as you and your buddies like to pass it off as? More to the point, it again comes to a matter of credibility -- for i find far more in that "anti christian website" than some whino who hasnt been out in the real world long enough to actually get a DATE, let alone figure out what the meaning of life is. Im not confused at all here -- i merely laid out my thoughts, in a way that i thought you might have a chance of following them -- since youve prettymuch missed every other point ive made altogether. Ive already said ive not read the bible thru out and out -- i dont have the patience to read that load of (what i view to be)hypocritical outlandish and outright decieptful slag.

 

I might add, that keeping it simple is a VERY good way to weed out the bullsh!t spouted off in a number of things -- more tho, appearing simple is an easy way see the true colors in people. Take you, for example -- you claim i have gotten myself confused -- yet it seems to me, at least, that your happy to quickly dissmiss ANYthing that doesnt sit with you, and cling to same old tired stuff that makes up, well, your beleifs i suppose. im not tryiong to convince anyone of anything really -- unlike some. more to the point, i dont NEED to pretend to be condesending, paticularly because i have this beleif of a "devine being" backing me. ;)

 

am i really making you that antsy by my comments, bware?

 

Best way to sum up, as seen on a shirt -

 

"I Could agree with you, then we BOTH would be WRONG!"

 

 

 

:lol:

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(which, i have to say,is becoming easyer, if less intentional, by the post :lol: )

Easyer, huh? :lol:

...or, more accurately -- pointing out that your side isnt near as rosy keen as you and your buddies like to pass it off as?

What does this even mean? You haven't made a single point to that effect.

Im not confused at all here -- i merely laid out my thoughts, in a way that i thought you might have a chance of following them

Yeah. I'm not that insane. I just don't follow meandering, baseless nonsense.

-- since youve prettymuch missed every other point ive made altogether.

HAHA! Okay, here's a challenge for you- tell me, in bullet point format, the points you've made thus far. Besides misquoting the Bible and pulling half-understood passages out of context, what points have you actually made?? :rofl:

Ive already said ive not read the bible thru out and out -- i dont have the patience to read that load of (what i view to be)hypocritical outlandish and outright decieptful slag.

Right. And, of course, you DO have the authority to dismiss it, right? After your exhaustive research and analysis? Hmm. Does anyone else here see the glaring contradiction? Just wondering.

I might add, that keeping it simple is a VERY good way to weed out the bullsh!t spouted off in a number of things -- more tho, appearing simple is an easy way see the true colors in people.

You may be a simple person, and I guess that's okay... but theology and the Bible... sorry, but simple thinking does NOT cut it. You're bringing a knife to a gun fight. It's pathetic, and what's more pathetic is your attempt to rationalize it :roll:

Take you, for example -- you claim i have gotten myself confused -- yet it seems to me, at least, that your happy to quickly dissmiss ANYthing that doesnt sit with you, and cling to same old tired stuff that makes up, well, your beleifs i suppose.

No... I'm simply defending a belief system that has been alive and well for 2,000 years against your childish rantings. I'm not dismissing what you have to say because it doesn't "sit right" with me. I'm dismissing it because it's laughable, misguided nonsense. If you were to bring up a thoughtful, intelligent point or objection, I'd give it its due respect.

im not tryiong to convince anyone of anything really -- unlike some. more to the point, i dont NEED to pretend to be condesending, paticularly because i have this beleif of a "devine being" backing me. ;)

A "dIvine being" you say? (that's with an "i" children) Actually I've never used that as a crutch. Frankly I've never needed to! You haven't yet raised a credible objection!

Also, yes, if you believe something, you should in fact try to convince people. Otherwise you're being very selfish with your insight and knowledge, aren't you?

am i really making you that antsy by my comments, bware?

Don't flatter yourself :roll:

You're simply an entertaining diversion from my studying.

Best way to sum up, as seen on a shirt -

You mean, as you...... SAW on a shirt? I see simple grammar is a challenge for you... which really lends a whole lot of credibility to your grasp on theology :rofl:

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well im not judging anyone..but bad grammar is a sign of ranting.. :P

 

also guys, try not to make this personal and lock the thing up

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Also, yes, if you believe something, you should in fact try to convince people. Otherwise you're being very selfish with your insight and knowledge, aren't you?

 

While i agree with most of what you said i disagree here. I know many people here have very different beliefs to myself here. While i beleive it is good that they know your beliefs and you know theirs, but you should respect and acknowledge their beliefs. Just because you beleive in something doesnt make it true for everyone.

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i think alpha is trying to say, im other words, to each his own...

 

also, maybe you dont have to necessarily accept others beliefs but id say you should try to understand them and create a coexistant environment?

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Well yeah man, no question there! Have I ever suggested breaking down the doors of people who don't agree with me and burning their houses to the ground? We ARE peacefully coexisting. However, I do not ACCEPT the beliefs of others that contradict my own. No person should! I do tolerate them- tolerance is important- but accepting everything is the height of lazy ignorance.

This is the point of civilized debate. We coexist, but we butt heads over issues on which we don't see eye to eye. RK, however, is not holding his end of the deal up here. He isn't debating civilly- he isn't bringing up thoughtful points to contradict or challenge mine. He's instead opting to personally attack the Bible, and he's doing a sloppy, lazy, horrible job at it! That's where the whole thing breaks down and degrades into childish name calling, sadly. When you have one person who will do nothing but throw out wild accusations and incendiary language about someone else's deeply held beliefs and then not even bother to back up his rantings, it doesn't matter WHAT the other person does!

 

 

So yes, to each his own... but I won't back down from defending my beliefs, and neither should anyone else! :wink:

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I absolutly agree with you. You should be defending your beliefs. The point i was trying to make is that you shouldnt assume that because you beleive it to be true other will too.

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:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

 

Ok thats hilarious. he gets soooo wound up at me hes gotta take the weakest way to make jabs at someone -- thier grammar. sheesh. :lol: Not only that, but he takes my points ant twists them to make it look like he came up with them first. :lol: Then attempts to pretend not to be up in arms - yet is very quick to come off with his droll? :lol:

 

Guess you dont like it much when someone else defends what THEY think with equal or greater zeal to you, eh bware?

 

Oh, before i forget -- i did in fact cover some of the points, in that lil comparison between the muslim and christian faiths, just what my points were, but as it stands, why should i bother? if you havent the reading skills to see my point (which, i mean cmon, doesnt take THAT much) then why reword it all again for the umpteenth time? youve already made it clear you refuse to even accept others beleifs as anything close to valid, so its essentially academic now.

 

Oh, ever pause to consider i was keepin it simple just to keep the simple people -- namely you -- able to understand? but since you cant grasp it in SIMPLE form, going complex over it would be prettymuch futile.

 

Lastly -- History proves that, when in regards to christianity or any of the right wing faiths, it IS impossible to convince those of the extreme (as youve done well in showing your desire to be a part of). better to merely spread the word, and allow those who wish to examine do so on thier own. :lol:

 

As a side note, i can easily say, to those who wish to be something the realist -- prove that god exists. last i checked, people have been trying for millenia -- and absolutely ALL efforts to such have been to no avail - and everytime that happens, the right wingers arwe quick to come off with really cheapass lame excuses for that, in the thinly vieled attempts to protect thier own faith.

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RK... ugh. Grow up dude. I don't have the energy to deal with your childishness :roll:

 

But... don't flatter yourself and think I stole ANY points from YOU. :lol:

 

 

 

...and in regards to your claim that you're a "thoughtful moderate," while people like me (you know, people who happen to disagree with your base, laughable thinking), you consider to be "extremists." I do resent that. I am in no way an extremist, but it's okay if it helps you and your fragile, black and white, simple world view. Go ahead and make demons out of us. It's a thing called throwing up a scarecrow defense... it's a crutch for the simple. Redefine your enemy's position so that it's undefendable so you can win in your own mind without really doing much. What the hell, go for it :roll:

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It is interesting to note that you have completely ignored the points he made yourself and rather than take up the challenge to put forth the points you are trying to make resort to insults. Maybe if you did do that people would not have to hazard a guess that you are here to troll or advocate American deaths.

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You two both deserve medals, this should have been locked a long time ago.

 

however, since it isnt, I have one major statement (and a few minor ones) to make here.

 

@ RK-know whats funny? Right and left wing have nothing to do with religion. That is purely political, and you know it. So stop saying BWare is a right wing blah blah.

 

Accepting beliefe-I accept that others have slightly or even radically different beliefs. Does that mean we cant coexist? Hellas no. I happen to believe that no single faith.religion on this planet is 100% correct, although Christianity (from my point of view) is by far the closest. I adhere to Christian, (Catholic, to be more precise) beliefs because they make sense, both morally and theologically. (if its not a word, it is now). There is nothing wrong with being a Jew, Hindu, Muslim ect... We should all learn to accept, at least partially (h/o fanatic boys) some of the beliefs of other religions. You might be surprised how similar the base concepts of them all are. (ok BWare, grammar slam :wink: )

 

That is all for now.

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Damm you beat me to it about the political spectrum thing. It is not the religions themselves that are right wing it is the people in them.

 

Yeah its suprising but many of the religions people think are too different to co-eist are actually very similar. As faiths Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism.

 

I beleive many of the religions are all in essence the same but just chose to practice their faith in a different way. Thats why i beleive Catholicism may not be the 'most right' but just the method i chose.

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Damm you beat me to it about the political spectrum thing. It is not the religions themselves that are right wing it is the people in them.

Excellent point. I should have hammered that one further. It falls into my point about him looking at his opponents as one amorphous blob- a monster composed of all the ideologies he despises so much. To an angry simpleton like him, a right winger is a Christian, is a nazi, is a Catholic, etc.... and that's why it's impossible to talk reasonably with him. It sucks.

Yeah its suprising but many of the religions people think are too different to co-eist are actually very similar. As faiths Christianity has more in common with Islam than it does with Judaism.

I would disagree strongly with this. Islam, while rooted in the Old Testament account of the Bible, diverges almost entirely from it, contradicting entirely the messages of the Old Testament in the end. It's very similar to Mormonism in that way.

The only difference between Judaism and Christianity (besides the obvious cultural differences) is the dispute over whether Jesus Christ was in fact the Messiah.

I beleive many of the religions are all in essence the same but just chose to practice their faith in a different way. Thats why i beleive Catholicism may not be the 'most right' but just the method i chose.

This is demonstratably untrue. They are different systems of beliefs because they're situated around completely different beliefs! I can go into this further a bit later....

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