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Sonic

9/11 - 5 Years On

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Today (in NZ) marks the 5th anniversary of the tragic events that occurred on that fateful day of September 11th 2001. Its one of those days that you will never forget where you were, what your were doing, when you found out about the collapsing of the World Trade Center buildings, the attack on the Pentagon and of course United Flight 93, that crashed in Pennsylvania. Everything about that day is still fresh in my mind. Seeing the footage of the planes hitting the WTC almost seemed unreal. Our world is a very different place since 9/11 and affects can be seen in the media, the current situations in the Middle East and the ever constant threat of terrorism. 9/11 may have been an attack on the heart of America but it's effects were felt the world over.

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Its very heart warming to hear non-Americans be sad about this day. :)

 

God Bless the Free World!

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Death to terrorists! Death to Osama! Death to muslim fanatics!

 

I'm in NYC and was affected plenty by 9/11. My school is like less than a mile away from ground zero.

 

Thinking about it just makes me mad at those islamic bastards. More bombs and hot lead up their asses :twisted:

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Upon contemplating, I decided Islam is the worst religion in the world. No other religion has generated so many wars and conflicts. You have the arabs sweeping over Africa and conquering all of North Africa under Islam. You have them conquering Jerusalem and attacking the Byzantine Empire, causing the crusades to be launched in reliation, you have islamic fanatics causing suicide bombing, causing destablization, kidnapping israeli soldiers and just causing trouble in the world. the koran actually has a section about killing infidels and non-believers, it can be found in it. and islam is the only major religion that still takes away women's rights and has stupid stuff like shariah, where men dominate everything. islam has refused to modernize and grow with the times, it should be scrapped.

 

I'm just angry about 9/11. I dont hate muslim people, i hate islam and islamic fanatics and terrorists.

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Unfortunatley, that sentiment is felt across the globe, and thus, the circle of war continues. And with certain Islamic fanatics claiming global genocide against the Jewish people and attempting to gain Nuclear weapons at the same time...Im afriad that the world has changed a lot, but it will change much much more in the coming years.

 

Damn terrorists, they got their wish.

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I agree totally with Sonic. 9.11 is something that we will never forget - every person who was around that day will remember exactly what he was doing when he first heard about the attack. The initial disbelief, the rumors and then the shock when reality hits. To this day I still find it hard to believe what man is capable of doing to innocent others just for the writing in a book or the words of a crazy man. This is truly a world wide tragedy that should and will not ever be forgotten.

 

On the political side of things:

 

I don't think that we should hate Muslims, Islam or even target a group like - Arabs.

 

The problem most of the time is not with the little person on the street who just wants to get on with his life it is with the radicals. The radicals and fanatics exist in every culture and religion, unfortunately the ones in the Mulsim culture and religion are currently dominating and the ones that are causing all of the problems.

 

The people targeted should be those fanatics, not the religion and especially not the innocent bystanders. I understand that one can not weed them out as easily as I weed my garden and there will be mistakes along the way, but innocent casualties will be much less than a general targeting of a general populace.

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And to think if the CIA hadn't asked Pakistan for airspace grants of their tomahawk missiles, Clinton would have successfully leveled that terrorist camp with Bin Laden inside. The world probably wouldn't be much different since terrorists wanted those buildings down sinc 1993, but the twin towers still might be standing. Lives could have been saved, and covert strikes on camps still the forefront of military operations, not wars.

 

But since this was never reality, and what's happened has happened, we need to take a stronger stance than we already have on terrorism in my opinion. Democracy or no democracy, the first port of call should be apprehending the cells at home. This means that if these extremists do start rallying calls of hate in mosques and on the streets, they should all be shot or arrested under terrorism acts that serve to protect us.

 

I don't know how many here think that the war on terrorism is justified. (is 9/11 and 7/7 not enough reason) But the UK has had enough with Blair and have ousted him from government. He is set to set his policies straight for his successor and will leave within 12 months. In the news here similar talk is now being aimed towards Bush.

 

Although some domestic policies are to blame for the revolt in our own government. It is the war on terror, and the strong relationship with the US and Bush that has sparked the most justified reasons to oust Blair. The question is now, when Blair is succeeded will that person too take a hard line against terrorism, or will they back off and force the USA to go it alone?

 

I just hope for everybody's sake that we stick strongly by the side of the US, and take a hard line. What people have to realise is that the UK is not dealing with the IRA anymore. Years of diplomacy around a table with false promises are not simply going to solve the problems at hand here. We need to bring the fight to these extremists because their ideology, regardless of the political issues surrounding terrorism, is a threat to every man, woman and child on this planet.

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Sonic, thanks for this thread. It means a lot, and I really appreciate it.

 

King, good points dude.

 

 

 

 

I don't think that we should hate Muslims, Islam or even target a group like - Arabs.

Okay, now it figures that someone would have to step in and bring an ugly and false accusation of racism into the equation in a thread devoted to the memory of the victims of this terrible attack. Disgusting.

 

Let me ask you one thing: What did every hijacker, in fact EVERY terrorist alive today have in common? Frankly, I feel pretty damn safe "targetting" young, male, Muslim Arabs as terrorist suspects over granny in a wheelchair. The political correctness has gotten out of hand. Leave us to honor the memory of 9/11, and keep the damn political attacks to yourself for a freaking day, alright? Thanks.

 

The radicals and fanatics exist in every culture and religion, unfortunately the ones in the Mulsim culture and religion are currently dominating and the ones that are causing all of the problems.

And when has this NOT been the case? Look at any major conflict going on in the world today. Again, tell me what they have in common. Aggressive Muslims are involved every time. The argument that "there are extremists in every religion blah blah blah" is just complete garbage. It is MUSLIMS ALONE who are causing this bloodshed. When was the last time a Christian "extremist" group blew up a building in Kabul because they wouldn't submit to the God of the Bible? No, THEY'RE the ones guilty of the hanus crimes of trying to put a cross at a war memorial, opposing abortion, and praying in school! *gasp*

Yeah... don't you dare equate them.

Sure there are Muslims who don't want the destruction of the west, but to say that it's just a couple on the fringe who are causing all the death and destruction is pulling the wool over your eyes. Bombings occur pretty much every day, and frankly I don't see a whole lot of resistance from the Muslim community beyond the usual lip service. Where is the peace movement from them? Why aren't we seeing a major schism in the Muslim world and vocal anti-terrorist Muslims stepping forward? Instead we see terrorist attack after terrorist attack. You can do the math and figure out the harsh reality, or you can remain blissfully ignorant and bring your divisive, smarmy, half-baked political points into our 9/11 threads. Your call.

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how can you say all terrorist are muslims. Their are hunderds of terrorist organisations around the world, nowhere near all of them islamic. Theres noting wrong with looking a little closely but accusing an innocent muslim of being a terrorist is completely stupid. Do you assume soldiers in the US army that are muslims hate the US also?

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Guest Rabbit

BWare, let's not turn this into another ****ing fight.

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how can you say all terrorist are muslims. Their are hunderds of terrorist organisations around the world, nowhere near all of them islamic.
Fine. Tell me who they are and what they've done recently. If anything, I can guarantee you that it pales in comparison to what unbelievable attrocities the Islamo-fascists have been committing.

 

Theres noting whong with looking a little closely but accusing an innocent muslim of being a terrorist is completely stupid.
I in no way advocated that.

 

Do you assume soldiers in the US army that are muslims hate the US also?
Again, read a little more carefully. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims.

 

BWare, let's not turn this into another ****ing fight.
I'm not meaning to. I'm angered that someone brought this petty political nonsense into this thread.

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Pakistan's hatred toward India. (Can't name the specific group)

 

They bomb hospitals, trains, streets, etc same as the terrorist face. But wait! India is Indians home country, we don't have to deal with that in America, now do we? (Not yet at least)

 

Edit: Found this, http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0908746.html. A lot of them Islamic, but not all. There are Russians, Japanese, Middle Eastern (Not Islamic) and South American ones.

 

Now I know its the majority of the bombings against it are led by Islamic terrorist, but that doesn't mean you have to stereotype. I got Islamic friends and they ain't terrorist. American-Arabs can actually be helpful in PREVENTING attacks, by informing the Government and stuff. ;)

 

"Again, read a little more carefully. Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims." - Bware.

 

Earlier in his post, "Alphabear wrote:

Theres noting whong with looking a little closely but accusing an innocent muslim of being a terrorist is completely stupid."

 

"I in no way advocated that." - Bware

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Guest Rabbit
but all terrorists are Muslims.

 

That's just as bad as saying all muslims are Terrorists. It's another ****ing assumption.

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That's just as bad as saying all muslims are Terrorists. It's another ****ing assumption.

No, it's the plain truth. How the hell can you call it an "assumption"? I'm pointing to actual observable fact. Prove me wrong, or keep it to yourself!

 

Now I'm talking RELEVANT terrorism of course. I can't speak for every single part of the world. I mean, I'm SURE you could dig up some group in Asia with a dozen members that's technically a terrorist group. But what terrorism of note within the last hundred years has really been committed by any other group than the Islamo-fascists?

 

Good list there TSBO. There are a couple of groups who aren't Muslim there, but does it not strike you that the VAST and OVERWHELMING majority ARE Muslim? Confronted with the facts, you just can't deny the horribly violent actions that this particular religion tends to foster... try as you may.

 

So, again, I ask you to please keep the baseless claims of American racism out of this thread which is meant to remember the horrible attack ON America.

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No, it's the plain truth. How the hell can you call it an "assumption"? I'm pointing to actual observable fact. Prove me wrong, or keep it to yourself!

 

You already were proved wrong with the list. Not all terrorists are muslem. Also that list are the US designated terrorist organisations. Who do you think the main terrorist organisations are that the US is following. There are also organisations on that page that no longer exist.

 

US Definition of terrorism

..activities that involve violent... <or life-threatening acts>... that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State and... appear to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and ...<if domestic>...© occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States...<if international>...© occur primarily outside the territorial jurisdiction of the United States..."

 

shortened UN definition of terrorism

peacetime equivalent of (a) war crime

 

How can you claim all terrorist are muslem when the US has in the past conducted political assinations in other countries to benefit US relations. Most nations have been accused of state terrorism in recent years. The French bombing of the greenpeace ship Ranbow Warrior for example

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I ask for facts, and you come to me with definitions. In case you haven't picked up on it, I HATE playing semantics, because word definitions prove nothing except word definitions. They're usually irrelevant to the conversation.

 

Anyway, are you ACTUALLY trying to tell me that the US is a terrorist country for our backing of certain political assassinations? You implied as much, but in typical alphabear fashion, you didn't actually come out and say it. If that IS what you mean, then you instantly lose all credibility. Done. You just can't hold a conversation with someone who is completely out of their mind.

 

Also, you implied (again, not actually making a point) that the list is incomplete because it was made by the US. That list is comprehensive, but since you don't seem to believe it, then why not point out an unlisted, non-Muslim terrorist organization? It's very easy for you to attack the credibility of the list without cause, but I'd like to see you actually prove it wrong.

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i stated definitions because you seemed to beleive all therrorist were muslem so obviouslt you dont understand what a terrorist is. There is such a thing as State Terrorism such as the bombing of the Rainbow Warrior and the assasination of the Chilien leader. I never said the The US is a terrorist nation, I dont beleive it is. I just showed that by the US definiton of Terrorim, it and many other nations have commited terrorist acts in the past.

 

And how is the definition of terrorism irelevent to the discussion on whether or not all terrorist are muslem?

 

I never said i didnt believe the list. I was just pointing out that it may and indeed does have errors. For one ETA no longer exists, it ended in 2003 despite initial thought that the madrid bombing may have been caused by them which has since been proved wrong.

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Guest Rabbit

BWare, in all honesty, I'm sick and tired of this.

 

I'm just tired of arguing a one sided "debate" with you.

 

It's impossible to argue with an ignorant person.

 

Good man told me this, don't remember who, but someone did.

 

EVERY single time we make a point, you have to put it down. You don't even just retort it, instead, you go and insult every ****ing bit and piece there is to it, and you have to rip it apart. You just can't admit that you're wrong. EVER. You can never admit your faults. You can never admit that you said something you should NOT have said.

 

And it's getting ****ing annoying.

 

I did not start posting in this thread for an arguement, but god damn, what you said just pisses me the hell off.

 

It's ok to be wrong.

 

We're ALL tired of your bull**** insulting. EVERY single time you want to back up a point, you have to insult in the process. Don't believe me? Look through the forums, and ask all the members. We're all thinking the same thing. ANY time you must back up your point, and feel it's not strong enough, you just resort to insulting the crap out of ours. Or Us.

 

So, for once in your life, just shut the **** up, and return this thread to a normal thread of remembering.

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Hypno, do you always have to be this horribly unpleasant?

 

Perhaps I need to clarify here:

I, like anyone else in the world, can be wrong. Some of you seem obsessed with making me "admit I'm wrong", but in order to DO so, I have to be wrong in the first place! Unless I'm pretty darn sure I'm right, I usually don't chime in. That's the "trick" I use. Just because others love to blather on without knowing what they're talking about and end up wrong a lot, I don't. I'll admit it when I'm wrong, of course, but first I have to BE wrong!

 

 

Now on this particular topic, I maintain that "all terrorists are Muslims".

Just so you don't think that I'm a stereotypical racist (a pretty bigoted thing to think in the first place), here's an article from an Arab Muslim who just so happens to agree with me. You'd be a fool not to.

http://www.arabnews.com/9-11/?article=32∂=2

 

And as to the definition of terrorism, you're still playing semantics. That UN definition is ridiculously obtuse. The US definition is somewhat more helpful, but when I think "terrorist", I don't think of some single act that fits into a certain set of rules. I think of a radical group of people who will stop at nothing, even to the point of killing masses of women and children, in order to dominate and destroy a civilization and "convert" them to a particular religion... and who use terror to accomplish these aims. These aren't human beings. They aren't even animals! Animals kill out of necessity. No, these are far worse... these are monsters.

 

Now you and TSBO can just knock off whining to each other about how "OMG bware duznt think hez evr wrong! Wer so sik of it!!1" If you want to grow up and discuss, feel free. I for one am sick of being hated because I'm not regularly wrong.

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That's just as bad as saying all muslims are Terrorists. It's another ****ing assumption.

No, it's the plain truth. How the hell can you call it an "assumption"? I'm pointing to actual observable fact. Prove me wrong, or keep it to yourself!

 

Okay, I am proving you wrong right here:

 

I got a Muslim friend, he doesn't like war or blowing up things and actually taught me stuff. So that basically proves you wrong, sorry.

 

Interesting fact I learned from him: 9-11 was predicted in the Quaran on page 911. :S

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Guest Rabbit
Hypno, do you always have to be this horribly unpleasant?

 

See? You STILL insult. Cut it out with the ****ing insults.

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Interesting fact I learned from him: 9-11 was predicted in the Quaran on page 911. :S
You don't seriously think they didn't plan it that way :eh:

 

Now, on to the crap...

 

  • BWare, you are a little too insulting sometimes when you get heated up

[*]Hypno, you need to stop b****ing about BWare so much, it doesn't do anyone (except mabye you) any good, and just creates more strife

[*]Please don't get another topic locked guys

Thank You!

 

 

And to think if the CIA hadn't asked Pakistan for airspace grants of their tomahawk missiles, Clinton would have successfully leveled that terrorist camp with Bin Laden inside. The world probably wouldn't be much different since terrorists wanted those buildings down sinc 1993, but the twin towers still might be standing. Lives could have been saved, and covert strikes on camps still the forefront of military operations, not wars.

 

But since this was never reality, and what's happened has happened, we need to take a stronger stance than we already have on terrorism in my opinion. Democracy or no democracy, the first port of call should be apprehending the cells at home. This means that if these extremists do start rallying calls of hate in mosques and on the streets, they should all be shot or arrested under terrorism acts that serve to protect us.

I am very glad that some people in the UK (not meant as an insult) still have some sense :clap:

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Okay, I am proving you wrong right here:

 

I got a Muslim friend, he doesn't like war or blowing up things and actually taught me stuff. So that basically proves you wrong, sorry.

You aren't really that dense, are you? Let me quote myself- once again- JUST for your benefit. NOT ALL Muslims are terrorists, BUT ALL terrorists are Muslims. This is very simple logic dude. The fact that you have a Muslim friend who isn't a terrorist doesn't in any way hurt the validity of my point. Think it through, and try again. :wink:

 

Interesting fact I learned from him: 9-11 was predicted in the Quaran on page 911. :S

Right... and the American dollar bill predicts it too. :roll:

 

See? You STILL insult. Cut it out with the ****ing insults.

That wasn't at all an insult. It was a simple observation, no doubt shared by many others. Saying "****ing this" and "****ing that" constantly is what a horribly unpleasant person does. I mean, I kinda get the whole teenage angst thing, but geez dude...

 

BWare, you are a little too insulting sometimes when you get heated up

Oh, no question! I do apologize for that, but I get annoyed... and in all fairness, it's usually justified (though sometimes over the top, I do admit). :wink:

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Interesting fact I learned from him: 9-11 was predicted in the Quaran on page 911. :S

You don't seriously think they didn't plan it that way :eh:

 

Nah, I laughed and he laughed. He wanted to see if I believed it and I wanted to see if anyone here did. :P

 

Anyways, NOT ALL TERRORIST ARE MUSLIMS BWARE, GET THE **** OVER IT.

 

Also that was a very brillant post Blbpaws!

 

 

Bware you can never admit you're wrong, or said something wrong or anything! You're an old man Republican that will never change views on things and thats horrible! Ignorance is a tool of the devil.

 

So, again, I ask you to please keep the baseless claims of American racism out of this thread which is meant to remember the horrible attack ON America.

 

Racism? Point some out that I made. I think you like to think somethings are what they aren't.

 

And this thread is not what it is. I believe your adding to the political discussion too, so we're all guilty as charged for "disgracing" the thread.

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