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Sonic

Why is this Community so Negative

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I haven't posted a new blog for few weeks now, basically I haven't anything to post about. Until now. In short I want to know why the Command & Conquer community is so damn negative these days. Every time some new information about Tiberium Wars gets released people seem to over analyze everything about it and become so critical they want EA's blood or the developers heads on a stick.

 

What happened to the old days? Back in 1998/1999, the build up before the release of Tiberian Sun, the community at the time was a heap of fun, yeah we suffered through some delays back then but people never bitched and moaned as much as they do today. In the old days we were more than happy when new screen shots were released, we read interviews with developers that revealed key bits of information about the game, and loved it. In the Red Alert 2 days the community would get so excited when Westwood released a preview track of the music to be featured in the game.

 

That was then and this now. The modern day community routine appears to be this; new info comes along, appears on fan sites, then all the "hardcore" fans and so called experts subject this new information to a series of torture tests, it then falls short of their high and mighty standards which leads to the usual "this game is going to suck!".

One such I comment I spotted on Planet CNC's forums about the latest C&C 3 newsletter. The poster, not liking the new C&C 3 logo simply lost faith in EA and proceed to say that EA should quit now hand C&C 3 over to Petroglyph. Another punk on the internet gets his 2 cents in, making himself look stupid in the process. Since when the did the logo make the game anyway? The new logo does need a bit of work though.

 

I'm not saying you have to take everything about C&C 3 and like it, the fact is most people who are bashing the game are simply doing that because EA are the one's making it. EA want your feedback but you must go about it in more mature way. Most of the negative reaction I've seen is nothing but half-assed EA bashing.

 

I've seen lots of stuff in C&C 3 that I don't like but I don't go around discussing it all the time, basically because I just don't care. Focusing on the new logo once again, I said in the news "I'm not sure I like the big number 3 in background though". Thats about as critical I feel I should be because in the end its a just a logo for a video game.

 

The fun has indeed been sucked out of this community..... is it time for me to bail out?

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The thing with Westwood was that they made everything fun. We had community managers who didn't mess around, delivered the goods, and gave us the hard facts. Their outlook to the business was to remained focussed, but have fun in the process. They generated hype using teasers, weekly vids, and more. Nothing was drip fed, and we always had something to chew on.

 

EA's methods are different, and since the takeover of Westwood Generals was made and was average, the community was then abandoned with 2 below average lord of the rings games, and we were force fed this info with no C&C news in the process. Being left to fend for ourselves all this time. Then they give us a compilation pack that never needed much change and ruined Westwood's hard work in the process, and now we're presented with C&C 3.

 

The community feels betrayed at every conceivable level. The lack of information, the sackings, the false information about RA3, the list goes on. And now the community is hungry for information, and when they get it, they wanna rip it to shreds to ensure that it isn't another Generals or BfME. The community uses the Westwood days and their games as a benchmark for perfection.

 

The fact is, this whole community doesn't care. It still feels like it's not being communicated to properly, we still have a community manager that would rather pretend to be someone else than his own. And the community will not change until this game comes out and it lives up to the expectation required. Even then, the after market support will need to live up to Westwood levels.

 

It is and always will be about comparisons to Westwood, and how this can be done better, what we want, how it used to be. It's not going to change. Double that up with the fact that Gamereplays.org seemingly gets more attention than the veteran community sites becomes a blatant insult to many who have visited over the years.

 

All in all, this isn't a community anymore, it's an internet cesspit run by a type of Marshall law. But it's not just that. C&C is now an average RTS game that broke onto the scene and stopped becoming great after Tiberian Sun.

 

All other RTS games have surpassed C&C throughout the years and it's no longer considered anything more than an average RTS. We've all moved onto better games, the only reason we are all still here is to preserve the canon, and nothing else.

 

Hence why we will bitch and moan to ensure that the way things should go are the "so-called" correct way. Blame Planet CnC for putting the canon up in the first place, that has alot to do with the ignorance of perfection too.

 

So really Gamereplays.org, Planet CnC's C&C canon encyclopaedia, EA's takeover of Westwood, and the lack of communication and sense of fun from EA, make the community what it is today.

 

How can it change? It won't. Time to bail? Depends whether you have a passion for C&C anymore as the game stands. Not the external factors such as the community itself. I myself have a liking to C&C, but it's not a passion anymore. I'm here for the site, not the game.

 

Now the question is the passion still there? Is C&C what keeps you going or is it the site and the legacy it holds as a community veteran? And we are getting older too now, our priorities are different now than they were 9 years ago. I don't wish to see CNCNZ go, but if it has to then maybe it is time to bail and watch the game from the sidelines.

 

I think we personally need to hold a discussion about the future of the site on all levels in private conversation. As Cabal once said:

 

Our directives must be reassessed....

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i stay here cause i like the forum and i still love to play C&C no matter how many times i complete it to me its still the best RTS out there

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I was never online in the 'old days' so I can't compare what EA and Westwood. Westwood really seemed like a family though, and EA is clearly a business first.

 

I can cut EA some slack unlike 'Capt Grumpy' who seems to be grossly over-reacting to anything and everything IMO. I guess I've got lower expectations and I'm not burden by any comparisons. Every day, every moment is unique and can never be repeated. Perhaps the euphoria of the golden days of our "childhood's" will always be better in our memories... but that's a discussion in another reply.

 

And I think the 3 looks silly too but that's also a discussion for a different reply.

 

-gben

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UPDATE: This is not my original post but I think i was a little mean to EA and APOC/Predator the first time. LOL

 

Since my beginnings with C&C under Westwood, I kept track of the development of its games, especially Tiberian Sun. Westwood was serious on its development of the game: releasing hard information to the fans, answering our questions on the games, (as C&C KING said) releasing videos to keep us in the right track, and they also made sure we were entertained and kept that vibe going in the C&C community. It had me so hypted that I literally ran into the Best Buy in Midland, TX straight to the RTS games to GRAB myself a copy of C&C TS. I was 12 at the time. LOL.

 

But as for now, EA started to pull everyone's chain with the release of GENERALS and ZERO HOUR. I, for the first time in my life, did not call it a true C&C game. It was fun, but it was just felt like another RTS game. I wanted another Tiberian series game and then the release of a RA3 made me say "oh well at least its C&C". Then nothing came, the fans were left in the dark. And that alone taught me a lot about EA's credibility. Especially when they just happened to "scrub" RA3 for C&C3.

 

This is just an opinion: but I think one of the reasons that the community is so negative is because Westwood was only developing one game at a time. EA is a corporation is that it has too many games to worry about and each of those other games have fans that they must please as well.

 

So now we wait for C&C3 release. Sure they have released AMAZING information of the game, and we all said the videos of gameplay were GREAT (despite some opinions of the development), but the feelings are not the same as the way Westwood handeled development. In my belief, the one thing that is making me angry is the huge act EA is pulling to the community. "Oh this is APOC. No wait my name is PREDATOR now. I just switched sides and am being held hostage. So wait until we find him". I just find this rediculous because i have never seen anyone do this with any other game. Sure we get blogs from the EA site, but does that please the fans? Maybe/maybe not.

 

I know people gripe about the development of the game. My griping started when EA announced that there were no more Mechs, cyborgs, and other Tiberian Sun technology in C&C3 on their September blog and that the only mechs were the Juggernaut and the Avatar. (My reaction: :angry::no::badpc::boohoo::furious: ). I liked the mechs because it showed the pennicle of man's achievements and that the mechs such as the Titan and Wolverine matched the nature of futuristic combat. The Mammoth MKII was my absolute favorite due to the fact that it was one of the reasons I bought Tiberian Sun and also because I would LOVE to see it marching through fully 3-d cities (for looks, :P ). Mike Verdu said in IGN's interview that "GDI is all about firepower" and "overwelming force". I believe that such mechs are the perfect definitions of firepower and force along with the Mammoth Tank and Predator tank. But it was very dissapointing to hear that they would not be included in C&C3. The cyborgs were also a favorite with their abilities to survive in combat and to create tiberian fields when destroyed, but i understand that cyborgs were abondoned due to CABAL, but they would benefit as a special multiplayer unit. Despite my objections: I am not all up on EA. I am personally proud of thier work thus far, but i just want EA share new information just like Westwood did in their past games.

 

I, for one, will never abandon C&C. It has been the first game that I have ever been hooked and is still my #1 game today. If the rest choose to move on, thats fine by me, but im here to stay.

 

Long live :10: !

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Leaving the C&C community or closing this site down are disapointing reactions to contemplate let alone hear... I never really addressed it earlier in my post but there is no danger of it happening with me. Although the lack of responses to blog seems to indicate it's already happened... he he... and noone's bothered to turn off the lights!

 

I was thinking overnight that perhaps a new poll is in order about the overall direction of EA with C&C3. I think EA is under-represented in the complaints department when you consider they have got some crucial things right...

- getting joe for kane

- attempting to assemble a quality cast for the fmv's

- creating a 'writers bible' for the fiction/cannon of the universe

 

(maybe the alternative is a 'bug' thread for C&C3! LOL! What has EA got wrong, oh so very wrong?!?)

 

Ok... I was suprised by some of the directions they have taken (mechs, blue zones, crystals etc) and while most of the publicaly released explanations can be construed as spin-doctoring... at least they are trying to create coherant and interdependant relationships between all the various pieces. Like in the TV episode I saw last night "we need to see the whole (chess) board before making our moves".

 

I'm on record as saying by and large that I like most of the directions, so keep that in mind when I say TSun was poorly conceived in terms of fiction... and ended with a very limited scope of extended story.

 

It's like the Highlander movies - a great idea - but poor writing left highligher 1 with a closed ending, so that all three sequels have really bizarre mechanisms for the suspension-of-disbelief to get back into the game. (And they never really learned that lesson! LOL!) Rocky 1 is a great example for successful spam sequels. The open-ended climax made the sequel (Rocky2) an obvious artisitic choice and a big money winner!

 

I'll put the dictionary away now, and sum up by saying...

I think EA is creating a new fiction and new environment thats better suited to making sequels (and therefore more money).

 

I think it's to be expected that new artists with old material have different ideas and interpretations, and it's a good thing. Give the guys a break.

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You guys can't seriously be considering shutting down CNCNZ can you? Where shall I get my C&C fix? :(

 

At least wait till C&C3 is released. You'll all feel better after that. ;)

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Yeah have a cuppa tea and a good lie down first...

 

:)

 

-gben

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Yeah have a cuppa tea and a good lie down first...

 

:)

 

-gben

 

QFFT!!

 

Don't ever, ever even CONSIDER IT!

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Sonic and King: You guys arent serious of closing CNCNZ, are you? :eh:

 

Ok before you all head off the deep end, no this site is not going anywhere. Expect some changes though because it is sure needs a swift kick the ass to bring it back up to scratch.

 

Its like I told C&C King via a PM. This site is part of me, I've poured so many hours of work into this place, to see it die off now would be a huge disappointment for me.

 

As long there are C&C games being made CNCNZ.com will continue to push forward and cover them.

 

I think you all read to much into my "is it time for me to bail out?" statement. I thought is was a good way to end my blog post ;)

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Well when I read your post Sonic - I didn't even notice your comment about bailing at first. Obviously King's was more obvious and had to be taken more seriously...

 

I was going to post a rebuttle to the other posts - pointing out that it was only King talking about giving up... until I re-read your original post and finally noticed the line.

 

So I thought I'd lurk until you answered yourself... it's fun to guess what's going on in EALA's minds... but you have a keyboard and an express your own opinions, right!

 

Still it's good to know I read your intention correctly, and good to know that CNCNZ is going to kick on.

 

(nice to finally get a post from predator/gatherer/scavenger/online shopper or whoever he is... helped boost the interactivity eh!)

 

-gben

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Sonic and King: You guys arent serious of closing CNCNZ, are you? :eh:

 

Ok before you all head off the deep end, no this site is not going anywhere. Expect some changes though because it is sure needs a swift kick the ass to bring it back up to scratch.

 

Its like I told C&C King via a PM. This site is part of me, I've poured so many hours of work into this place, to see it die off now would be a huge disappointment for me.

 

As long there are C&C games being made CNCNZ.com will continue to push forward and cover them.

 

I think you all read to much into my "is it time for me to bail out?" statement. I thought is was a good way to end my blog post ;)

 

 

even if this site dies dont kill it, leave it as a test of time like http://ra.afraid.org/

 

but sonic you know that us frequent posters we are loyal to this site, so just keep at it and we will still fully support you.

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Yeah, I tell ya, that website is a lifesaver when it comes to the original RA. :P

 

Its been there since the beginning. LOL. I first got the Millenium Falcon at that site. :lol:

 

But yeah, I will never stop supporting C&C.

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The CNCNZ can never close.

 

They have the Masked Shah's blessing to stay open, and they do not have my premission to close...

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The CNCNZ can never close.

 

They have the Masked Shah's blessing to stay open, and they do not have my premission to close...

:haha:

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I think that the community is negative beacuse, well, ever since Generals, the C&C series lost some things that made C&C C&C. Firstly, some people (like me) were disappointed with the disappearance of the tried-and-true side bar. Another was that Generals did NOT deserve to be called C&C, since it was not even related at all to the other games in the C&C series. Also, the false RA3 news was a big blow to the trust of the community to EA, since they anticipated the game for a few months, only to be disappointed by the cancellation of the project. The disappearance of FMVs and Frank Kleppacki all the more dug in the wounds made by EA already. The sackings (in my opinion) didn't matter too much. It were the games themselves. LOTR: BFME I flopped. LOTR: BFME II was okay, and left relatively unchanged by the ROTWK expansion. But I think that EA is making it's penitenence for their wrongs. For Tiberian Wars they returned the side bar and the old building methods. They made a game related to C&C at last. And they brought back the old FMVs (and Kuckan for that matter), and also Frank Kleppacki's great game tracks. This time, I think, the community should more than rejoice; they should start to think positively of how EA is handling the franchise already.

 

In the words of a Space Marine from Warhammer 40,000 Dawn Of War: "Heresy grows from idleness." We C&C fans were idle for quite a while. We didn't have any good games related to C&C. At most, Generals was the only game we can play. Some of us (like me & King) have found refuge in other franchises, like Star Wars: Empire At War, or Warhammer 40,000 Dawn Of War: Dark Crusade. Our idleness spawned something like heresy. We bashed EA. We insulted and loathed them. But it's time to stop hating and start cooperating. Give to charity. Educate EA in what we fans need.

 

:D

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well so far they have been prity ope n but on the EA forurms people just bit*h about everything. they complain that this unit doesn't have this, this unit doesnt have that. this struture needs this. i am sick of the way the people on the EA forurms moan about nothing, help them but dont get pickiy about stuff that doesnt matter, help make the engine better.

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Yeah, well, some guys on those forums think they're someone just because they got legitimate copies of EA games and all that... Well, I have legitimate copies, but do I bi**h about EA!? Hell no! EA does things the way it wants it; we can only hope that they listen to advice, and NOT listen do the dumb bastards that constantly bi**h about them. EA's employees shouldn't get discouraged by those idiots.

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Generals... Generals... Generals...

 

It single handedly ruined C&C in more ways than one.

 

It jumped on the "Pro-Bush" war propaganda wagon, and tried to become a whole new game that could never appeal to the C&C community... by refusing to be the C&C game, and trying to be a whole new creature.

 

They jumped on politics and trying to mirror real world, Generals became a Clancy or America's war type game. They credit even quoted Bush in the video previews, the game was that tacky.

 

It was a "decent" gameplay, and it provided some interesting ideas, but it was totally unbalanced and lopsided. You couldn't even call it a game at times, people actually call it what it was "Propaganda".

 

EA charged in and did as they pleased with Generals, it got people nervous about C&C 3.

 

I think after seeing EA's C&C3 videos, I can breathe a sigh of relief.

They are responding really really well with the fan community, and it's great what they are doing now.

Hopefully they can go on to do a Red Alert 3, and Generals 2 (But do it correctly, with a decent enemy, and tone down the overwhelming US forces).

 

So if EA game developers are reading this, thanks for taking the time to listen to the fans. You are fantastic! You promise to do your best with the C&C games, we promise to buy them... reguardless of how corny it may be. You know us, we loved those corny in-game videos, and weapons. They are fun and get us excited, and you basically make us happy campers when you unleash a new title.

 

Although the community may be negative now, I truly believe C&C3 will be the shot in the arm to get everyone charged up again. The return of Kane would have been enough to bring me back. Now EA Games have brought back the thunder to thunder-dome.

 

Bakalakalaka,

May the breadcrumbs you lay today, be the fortitude of indigestion for tommorrow!

 

-The Masked Shah of Shodirkadirka

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Now EA Games have brought back the thunder to thunder-dome.

 

:)

 

-gben

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well most of us regulars are :D but there are a few who are not. so i would say about 80% of us are now positive.

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