Shift Happens

[Doctor Destiny 41]

yes but i still believe that the reason that people believe muslims to be violent is the reagon that there in and the wars that the region beleives in. if a man goes into war and says a prayer to his god and the other guy overhears him he will most likly think that it is now a "holywar"

Considering they've declared Jihad against Americans, it most certainly is a holy war.

[kraft 0]

Just cause people have thought the world was close to ending in the past doesnt mean it's safe to say nothing will happen this lifetime

[blodnukl 0]

ah but the people that say that they are on a jihad are extreamists and obviasly dont no the meaning of the word...as i said a jihad is a inner quest to fight your own demons

 

and through properganda it has come to be known as a holy war

[Doctor Destiny 41]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jihad

You're probably right but people evolve language and language changes to suit.

[F15pilotX 4]

ah but the people that say that they are on a jihad are extreamists and obviasly dont no the meaning of the word...as i said a jihad is a inner quest to fight your own demons

 

and through properganda it has come to be known as a holy war

just because it doesn't fit your definition of a holy war doesn't mean it isn't :roll:

 

And about the "christian and jews are just as violent", consider this: when Muhammed started his religion, he went from arab village to arab village, forcing people to convert on threat of death. He got somewhat more lenient afterward with the jews and christians, forcing them to leave their homes or convert, but the point is, the other two did not have to grow at first by force; they did it peacefully.

 

As to the crusades, yes, the European countries invaded Palestine as their own version of a 'holy war', but this seems much more reasonable, considering both were founded in Jerusalem. This would be like us occupying Mecca and Medina, which would outrage the whole world That's exactly what it did to Europe.

 

I'm not justifying the crusades, just saying that at least they had a reason for taking Palestine (notice, once we conquered it after the 1st Crusade, we didn't expand into arabia/egypt), unlike the terrorists, who claimed that we were 'a thread to Allah'

[illumenatis 0]

The thing is about religion is that human beings f*cked up the meaning of it in the first place. People are always trying to use religion as a basis for their lives. As far as I can tell, they're completely wrong. To use religious beliefs as a guide to everlasting paradise is a malformed version of what God wants. I, personally, dont follow any religion at all. I embrace all of them, but Id never truly join any of them. Thats because they all have it right at points and they all have it wrong at another.

 

To be honest, religion is a myth. To worship something in mass and use that thing to act as an excuse for war is wrong. These are my opinions of course.

 

The only reason the US was attacked in the first place was because of our ignorance. Because of our belief that no one would have the [for lack of a better term] balls to attack us. We thought we were safe. So we became the bully of the world. Lets put this situation in a modern day high school. Some guy gets real strong and good lookin over the summer and finds that no one wants to mess with him because of what he has. So, he starts to pick on other kids because he knows that no one "will" get him back for it. Then, out of nowhere, this random kid [who was the bullys friend at a time] comes along and trys to pick a fight with the so called bully. The kid gets his ass beat and has to go into hiding. His friend trys to defend him but ends up in a hole, and then gets expelled for having a gun. THe bully trys to find the first kid and fails, time after time. Even though the kid taunts him, the bully just cant find the kid.

 

If you keep up the news, you can pinpoint certain events.

 

Anyhoo, most other terrorist attacks [and this is my belief] are copy cats. Just depressed people trying to die with honor by following a flawed belief.

[Guest Rabbit]

TheSovietBlackOut pointed something out to me, and I'm proud of you all.

 

You're actually debating, and not fighting, even though there's some rule-borderline content in here. I'm proud of you all.

[blodnukl 0]

f15 im sorry but that is soooo wrong and id like to now were you got that from...muhamad was a normal man that was according to islam became a prophet through the arch angel...and just because one person claims something to be something does not mean it is...for example if i said that i declaer a struggle with got on you!!! youd be like WTF??? or if i said i declare cheese on you...people think that just becasue it is in a differant launguge the meaing can change,but it cant a word is a word no matter what anyone says unless offically changed

 

 

as for muhamad he was peaceful and was kicked out of mecca and beaten for telling them that they shouldnt gamble,drink,or,"do it" he also saidthat there "false gods" ( that happen to be one of there biggest incomes were fake and should be destroyed) medine then came asking for his leadership to bring them back to being united and not fighting then they declared him there ruler. then when MECCA declared war he accepted because in islam you only fight when in danger so they fought back and won. then instead of killing them he showed mercy and let them live. and did not have anyone forced to become islam.

 

as for fyre's statement...im half arabic and do now a little of the languege and as i said before a word is a word...but you are right that the word loses its meaning in being translated

 

oh and f15 do you now why the crusades started???

if not id be more then happy to inlighten you because, there was no real reason exapt that the pope wanted to get the bad behaving knight to be killed and out of his way...they also went as far as to revert to canniblalism...i can go on if you need but this is getting long

[mormreed 0]

trust me the story of how the crusades started is pretty weird and involves some weird people but its pretty cool but back on topic...

so yeah jihad was totally messed in translation and Muslims only fight if they get attacked first they then qualify it as justified and think that anythin goes now until you give up or they destroy you, or they are not endangered by you anymore. The Christians started the Crusades to get rid of unruly knights who were doing nothing sitting around all day making Christianity and/or their lords look bad (even though Christianity was sooooooo sorrupoted at the time the knights made it look worse) and what blod sed about Muhammad was right completely (for once ; )) Muhammad was kicked out of Mecca after refusing to renounce his faith or views on "fake" idols Muhammad ran out of Mecca and retreated to a nearby city which I forget the name of but their whole religion teaches against any kind of throwing the first punch especially in the koran.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

If that's true, why does it seem like Muslims are a hell of a lot more violent than Jewish people or Christians? :roll:

[mormreed 0]

because they are extremely vicious about defending their faith you don't want to doublecross a Muslim

[blodnukl 0]

its because of the generation of people not the religion...just becase peop le say they are something doesnt mean they are

 

for example im a christian and if i said that my religion says to do this...to someone that knows nothing about my religion will take my word for it and take it as a holy war

[mormreed 0]

in case you haven't noticed they have to be very vicious about defending their faith because this generation is very very prejudiced against muslims, muslims as a whole are very peaceful unless provoked the muslims who are fighting this "holy war" (as you say) are complete extremists they interpret the Quran very strictly and sometimes "overtranslate" into their own language and sometimes even twist it to say what they want it to

[Doctor Destiny 41]

its because of the generation of people not the religion...just becase peop le say they are something doesnt mean they are

 

for example im a christian and if i said that my religion says to do this...to someone that knows nothing about my religion will take my word for it and take it as a holy war

Hate to burst your bubble but if your religion says it, you do it and it's violent on a large scale, it is a holy war. Random acts of violence in the name of religion aren't worthy of the title of war. What we have now with the Muslim fundamentalists is a holy war. No matter how you twist your definitions, it's a war based entirely out of religion.

[blodnukl 0]

aha...but thats were your wrong...if your religion does not say it,but you say it soes and do it anyway how can you contribute that to the religion...

 

 

ok, so im going to asume your not muslim...lol

 

but what ever your religion may be, supose you went to some place in africa were they have never heard of your religion before...ok?

and when you went there you said my religion say i have to kill you...now to other people in your religion that knows something about it will think wtf??? but to someone that knows nothing about your religion will take your world for it...now i assume that you dont know in detail what the muslim religion is all about...as for myself i have studyed them. now if some one bombed your country and said it was because of there religion most people whould liik over the facts and just be pissed, and most likly not care...therfore leading you to beleive everything that you hear,no?

[mormreed 0]

half the violence you see in Iraq right now is between Muslims, there are three different factions and they HATE each other the Sunnis and Shiites are the most opposed to each other because one believes that the next leader of the Muslim nation should be picked and the other believes that the next leader should be from Muhammad's bloodline and they are creating half the violence in Iraq right now fighting each other and the Muslims are peaceful people unless provoked and people think that the Muslim's faith says to attack people for no reason and sometimes the extremists attack people for not being Muslim and that gives them a bad name while the good Muslims don't attack people unless provoked so basically the Muslim extremists give all Muslims a bad name because people stereotype all Muslims like what they see on TV while the only Muslims they see on TV are mainly the extremists (in other words terrorists).

[sith_wampa 6]

[Doctor Destiny 41]

aha...but thats were your wrong...if your religion does not say it,but you say it soes and do it anyway how can you contribute that to the religion...

It's their perception. I've never said that fundamentalists are "right in the head" so to speak... in fact, I always say the exact opposite of that. However, my point is this: they're proclaiming their attacks in the name of religion. How you don't see that as a holy war is beyond me.

 

ok, so im going to asume your not muslim...lol

No kidding, Sherlock! Did Watson help you come to this conclusion? :roll:

 

but what ever your religion may be, supose you went to some place in africa were they have never heard of your religion before...ok?

and when you went there you said my religion say i have to kill you...now to other people in your religion that knows something about it will think wtf??? but to someone that knows nothing about your religion will take your world for it...now i assume that you dont know in detail what the muslim religion is all about...as for myself i have studyed them. now if some one bombed your country and said it was because of there religion most people whould liik over the facts and just be pissed, and most likly not care...therfore leading you to beleive everything that you hear,no?

I don't believe everything, and, quite frankly, neither do most people. You have that few as with any large group of people. However, that's completely moot since it's not about what people believe, it's all about the attackers, their motives and whatever it is they believe. Really, that's all there is to it.

 

and sometimes the extremists attack people for not being Muslim and that gives them a bad name

That's all it takes. Congratulations, you figured out how the world works.

 

Quit being a goddamn suckup. Contribute or go the **** away.

[TheBlackOut 6]

The two guys with stick figure avatars....

 

Okay... I am good with grammar and spelling more than the average internet guy and I am pretty tolerant of stuff like that... But wow. one big paragraph with tons of words and hardly any periods or commas and indents!

 

Format your writing a little will you? I don't like reading crammed stuff and I can't debate it if I don't want to even read it!

[mormreed 0]

I have to write an essay in 90 minutes every other thursday, that's enough punctuation for me. (<-a period!!!)

 

Edit: but really blody try to spell stuff a little better

[blodnukl 0]

periods are there to let someone now were the point or sentence ends... i assume that everyone here knows when i change what im talking about. and the commas are there so that you know that it is a conjuned sentance and to tell you to take a break

 

if your reading aloud to yourself and dont know when to stop i suggest you get help

[Heretic 0]

back on topic, the video was great !

 

and btw, the only peaceful religions i can think of are buddhism, african native stuff, and possibly shinto and viking-lore (asa). (the vikings just have a bad reputation, their religion didnt have anything to do with their raiding really..)