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APB - Proposed Weapon Range Table in Gamma

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I was trolling through the moddb updates page for APB and I discovered some of these changes for weapon range in the upcoming gamma release.

 

post-16-1232879468.png

 

Hey neato (I just copied this list from the other page - thx firefox!)

 

I was wondering why the team doesn't add this minor, range-fix update now? It seems like it will help to re-balance the factions making the game more fun right now. I mean, I'm not being a very good player, it took me a while to understand that the apc/jeep could actually out-range the soviet defenses.

 

Which obviously doesn't seem fair. So I'm glad they're changing it. And that base defenses will soon out-range the early allied rush. It means that just one 'rambo' can't nerf the soviet base all by themselves. But it seems the early rush is the allies strength, so I'm wondering whether it's too much of a nerf? The range list does look right but what about this...

 

I would support the apc/jeep range being shortened to the same as flame tower at least. That would make it a more even contest. It would rely on the skill of the driver to avoid the attacks, rather than just camping at some spot to kill it.

 

I could envisage 2-3 jeeps attacking a single defense:- one could draw the enemy fire by driving near the engagement zone, and the others could dart in, fire, and dart out to dodge the flame attack if it came their way. Teamwork and skill combine to kill the unsuspecting defenders! Neato.

 

(Well alternatively they would need to buy a mechanic to repair their vehicles while they trade blows, further delaying that tactic and giving the sovs a chance to get their tanks up, as both would take 2 dumps.)

 

So anyway the three or four things that I'm urgently waiting for:-

1) fix range exploits

2) fix target receptacles to correct show when something is in range

3) the base status screen correctly lists all base structures and their current health - like ore silos, turrets, sub pens etc

4) fix the elevator death traps, the bane of any lagfest!

 

Everything else the APB team does is amazing, bringing so much life into the aging engine. But these balance tweaks would be more my priority if I found a genie in a bottle.

 

:)

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I think I can speak on this. While some of the proposed changes would be relatively straightforward to apply to the current public 1.2.0 and then push out in a patch via the launcher and our site, it is a bit shortsighted to do so for a few reasons.

 

Let's talk about the Coil. Right now, accident or not, one of the most effective ways to kill off a Tesla Coil is with the APC. People are used to it, and used to defending against it. The Coil in 2.0.0 been given a rather large range boost, damage adjustment, and we are carefully adjusting both its damage output and the abuse it can take. Functionally it's still pretty much the same, but it handles a lot differently, and while you cannot attack it with an APC anymore or try to take it out with just one or two Light Tanks, and you can also no longer hug its base with infantry to safely plant C4 or whittle it down. It is a bit taller, too, now... and can hit places it would have had trouble hitting in the past.

 

We would need to push out a new version of every map with a Coil (or any base defense) for download all over again. If we don't, there might be problems where a Hind or something can now hit targets from outside the range of the protective AA Guns that it was not meant to hit, causing unforseen balance issues-- and we cannot devote testers to finding these problems when we need them testing our current full build.

 

Base defense walls are now twice as tough and much taller which makes them more effective at stopping units firing from different ranges (not to mention many units now can aim higher or lower), and simply doing a one for one swap will not work because of sizing differences and the new hub-and-section method. Changes to the MRJ and Tesla Tank jamming ranges and functionality also mean any map with a Radar Dome would need to be rebuilt and put out for download. Otherwise you might not be able to safely sit at jamming range now that Soviet weaponry can hit you from farther away.

 

The range reduction on the Missile Sub and Destroyer also anticipate certain model adjustments we're doing, and a redone submarine system. Subs are now designed to fire torpedos even while submerged, while Missile Subs lose their firing ability after diving down more than about 8 meters. They are expected to engage both while fully surfaced, and while a bit underwater, and many weapon range changes take this into consideration. Missile Subs would end up potentially far too exposed to both land vehicles and naval units if the range adjustment alone was made.

 

A trio of Medium Tanks, left unchecked, can destroy an unsupported Coil now. Then again, Medium Tanks now have a slight armor piercing aspect to their cannons, and handle a little differently against all targets except infantry. Tesla Tanks, their foil, have had their suspension system redone both to fix a texture flaw and to allow them to clamber over rough terrain much easier.

 

Basically... things are far too intertwined. There are a lot of assumptions every unit can make about every other unit, and when you suddenly adjust only the ranges, you run into problems.

 

That said, your vision of attacking a Flame Tower is certainly a possibility. And you could mix it up a bit, in ways that keep the low-level Ranger useful to high-level units. A Phase Tank now has volley fire from 90 meters away (10 meters into the Flame Tower range) and would easily take out a Flame Tower if only you could keep the Tower distracted (with a Ranger!) while it unloads its payload a couple times. Phase Tanks alone are too weak to take a beating from one or two Flame Towers, but if you can distract them... it's easy pickings.

 

Range-related bugs/exploits/oversights should all be fixed as of our current internal build for Gamma, internal build 6. Target reticles actually allow you to see slightly less than your true maximum range, but one idea that came up is standardizing the "view range" of different units regardless of weapon range. So your M16 and AK47 and Shotguns would "see" the same range. That idea likely is not happening, but it's something that was considered.

 

The base status screen just plain does not have room for showing all buildings. There are just too many. We might work out something different later.

 

Elevators have been adjusted somewhat, particularly the War Factory and Refinery elevators. Maybe later we can fix some of the lag itself, but we shall have to see.

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CJ thanks for the detailed personal response. Obviously I didn't realise the monstrous changes required to adjust the ranges. Here's was this little nub thinking it was a simple text edit in notepad. :)

 

Re: Base status screen.

Is a text based option even viable, rather than the current graphics? I'm all for functionality over funky graphics.

 

eg.

Silo 1... 46/100 or 46%

Subpen... 100/100 or 100%

Con Yard... 97/100 or 97%

 

I ask because I'm often in the base trying to be at least useful. I'm ready to repair, but I can't easily see what needs to be repaired unless I walk close enough to see, unless someone on the team is helping me by directing me to the correct place to help.

 

As always - good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to give me your feedback.

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