Why did they make the USA so "clean?"

[KyleBrogan 0]

This is something that's bothered me since Generals came out, and is even more of a topic of arguement with friends of mine since Zero Hour came out. Why was the USA side made so stinking clean?

 

No, I'm not suggesting that they throw mud on their units. When I mean clean, I'm talking about the fact that there's no extra-damage units when it comes to the army. With the GLA, you get the use of Toxins, of Anthrax, and SCUD Missles. You also get the aircraft-tearing Quad-Cannon, which is an aerial-manuvering nightmare. The SCUD Storm leaves a cloud of Anthrax around for a full minute after the actual storm, causing damage to units and buildings.

 

Now for China. You get to use nuclear capabilities, killing infantry easily, and leaving radiation around to cause damage even after you kill the units themselves. The Flame tank can damage a number of units quickly. And you get the Gattling Tank, which is a pain in the butt itself, but you can also upgrade the Overlord and Emperor Tanks with Gattling Cannons, as well as the Helix. Say goodbye to infantry all around, and Air Force is essentially useless. Tanks? Good luck. Add that to the fact that the Nuclear Missle Superweapon leaves a beautiful radiation cloud after the drop, and you've got all the makings of uber-power.

 

I'm just upset that it seems China and GLA got all the breaks. Sure, the USA got a couple neat units. The Avenger is the most powerful aircraft killer out there, but it can't attack ground. The Paladin is one tough tank, but even twenty of them can't hold up to ten Overlords. It just seems like the USA, while in the modern world the most technically-advanced military force in the world, got a bit shortchanged as it has to piggy-back it's units to make them a legitimate force. You have to support all your vehicles with other ones, instead of using a single unit to wipe everything out. I've personally beaten USA with China using nothing but Gattling Tanks and a couple Infantry. I just think that the USA should be given something to even out the "dirty" tactics.

 

Just an opinion from a USA Player.

 

- Sparticus

[Guest The Ghost]

Well gee you must be a dumb **** .....

realistic armies have to have something to back everything else up...

whats funny is if Overlords were real, they'd be the worst tank ever, their turrets turn so slow you could take them out with anything, and armor isnt an issue since a couple tank shells could take them out...

their size would prevent it form having alot of ammo

But WHAT THE **** this game isnt anywhere near realistic

USA focuses on Laser precision weapons anyway, they dont want to harm "innocents' remember???

[KyleBrogan 0]

Look, bro, I wasn't referring to realism in any way. I was just talking about the game. I just wish that they had made some kind of "extra damage" weaponry for the USA. I think that if the microwave tank could create a forward-launching field that kills infantry, that would be enough. Or something... I don't know. I just noticed that the GLA gets toxins, China gets nuclear weaponry, and USA gets... gets... um...

 

...oh wait. They don't get any kind of comparable collateral damage. And besides that, both China and GLA get gattling weapons... It just seems like USA got a bit shortchanged, while China and GLA got boosted to uber-power. I was just wondering if anyone else felt this way.

 

Apparently, that makes be dumb. Oh well.

 

- Spartie

[Sectoid 0]

I still think USA has a huge advantage over china even though they dont have a lot of special abilities. I'm talking about USAs most hated unit; the Aurora bombers. I played a 2on2 with some german and he didnt build a lot of airdefence, so when the enemies transportplanes came in over the base, the USA guy sent in his aurora /(&(/¤ and destroyed every powerplant and tech building- and the auroras survived.

 

I mean, the avengers kills of all atempts to attac with migs and a solid defence with firebases and lots of rocket infantry kills of most of the tanks

 

And dont forget the airforce generals "attack nooks", they are NASTY.

 

:wink:

 

/sec.

[Guest platinumnuts]

But you need to consider the USA's other strengths, namely its

satellite and subsequent easier ability to see the entire map.

 

Also, the upgraded fuel air bomb is pretty potent.

 

The only thing that bothers me about the various balancing

issues in Zero hour is the long range artillery capabilities.

 

The rocket buggy (used a lot by Dr. Thrax), I think is a pretty

effective weapon on many maps compared to the USA tomahawks,

the scud launcher, and the china inferno or nuke cannon.

 

When properly used, those rocket buggys are an incredible

nuisance.

 

I might also argue/add that Col Burton is probably the best of

the stealth heroes so I think the USA as advantage there as well.

[Guest KiDD]

Microwaves tanks do kill infantry.

Avengers can paint ground targets with their lasers, making the other units around them fire faster.

[KyleBrogan 0]

I've also come to loathe the Rocket Buggy. It can be upgraded to hold more rockets, and also to have more powerful rockets. I've seen players build a ton of these and just swarm my base with them. Effective defense? Yeah right. Just one of these upgraded suckers can take down a Paladin Tank. The only way I took them down was with Combat Chinooks, but my defenses got trashed up. Then he sent in a bunch of Quad-Cannons, and my Raptors couldn't drop them fast enough. It kinda bit.

 

While I do agree that USA has it's strengths, I just feel it got a bit shortchanged on certain factors. I can't help but compare it to Starcraft. GLA is Zerg, and they win by swarming the enemy. China is Protoss, and they win by the simple fact that their units are stronger and more powerful than their enemy, and the fact that they constantly heal. USA seems like Terran, with some good abilities, and some great tactics, but shortchanged when it comes to battling against the others. I'm still a USA loyal, but I just had to complain about it after I got dropped by an Infantry General, a Stealth General, and then a Demo General all in a row. (Online.)

 

- Spartie

[Guest platinumnuts]

Well we have a rule when we play LAN game in my lab

at the University (good use of university resources, eh?)

that if anyone plays as the stealth general, the rest of

the players get to target him first so he doesn't get a chance

to upgrade to level 5 and launch the sneak attact.

 

A particular potent form of the sneak attack is to actually

just send workers all over the map to build camo'd defenses

outside each base.

 

In fact, this is another balancing issue in the game I believe.

If the stealth general reaches level 5 before everyone else,

they are pretty much unbeatable.

 

Just for the heck of it I played as the stealth general and

launched a secret attack with all demolition trucks and

just oblilterated my opponents base as that opponent was

engaged with another foe.

 

And back to the rocket buggy's - yes - if you have a combined

rocket buggy plus quad cannon attack, in principle the quad cannons

shoot down the air defense that is coming to blow up the rocket

buggy's and then your screwed and you just sit there and

watch the buggies blow up our base.

 

And if your really lucky, the anthrax plane of doom will drop

its load right when your infantry is your last possible defense.

 

Moral - take the GLA out early and often!

[Guest Zickefoose]

I think USA should have the nuke considering it has more nukes than any country out there today

[Guest The Ghost]

Aurora bombers could take care of the rocket-buggy/quad cannon problem. But most importantly you should have a way to take out long-range enemies from a secure position with mobile units anyway. (would be good to be stealth general)

[Guest kulgan]

this is a typical issue of rts games, everyone pick a side and always want that side to be the best, is like being a sports team fan... there is a lot of that going on in warcraft 3...everybody complains about the others sides being to powerful

 

the usa have the best tech, it has like 15 more upgrades than the other sides, great ground and air units, and dont forget it has the best stealth detecting units.

granger is still very good against any gla general ( one king raptor can destroy pretty much any unit),

and also add microwave tanks,emp patriot,avengers and stealth commanches...

the gla pretty much sucks in generals, now things are even i think, thats all.

and about the usa being clean, i dont see that has to do with a balancing issue, is just a matter of taste... i agree with you that chemical and nuclear weapons are great, for my taste.

[KyleBrogan 0]

I find that hard to believe. GLA is an excellent army, in Generals as well as Zero Hour. USA gets more upgrades? Who are you kidding? Between the Palace, the Black Market, as well as the several upgrades in the Arms Dealer, GLA's got plenty of upgrades, specifically increasing already potent firepower. Same goes for China (Gattling, Napalm, and Nuclear upgrade capabilities). What kind of upgrades does the USA get? Oh yeah, the TOW missle. Um... and extra Armor for tanks.... and a few upgrades for Air units. That's about it.

 

I'm sorry. I just think that the USA should have been given a few extra tidbits, but maybe you're right, and I'm just being nitpicky. I just think the odds should be leveled a bit. China is expensive, but strong, GLA is cheap, but overwhelming, USA is just kind of tossed in the middle.

 

- Sparticus

[Guest jturk3]

Well if any of you actually checked all the stuff the came witht the ZH game ou can clearly see who has what upgrades. This is a list for upgrades that are

 

USA - Capture Building, Flashbang, TOW Missile, Sentry Drone Gun, Rocket Pods, Laser Missiles, Counter Measures, Bunker Busters, Control Rods, Advance Training, Composite Armor, Drones, Drone Armor, Chemical Suits, Supply Lines, MOAB, Stealth Commanche (Air): Total 17. Give or take depending on the General you choose.

 

GLA - Booby Trap, Capture Building, Scorpion Rocket, Fortified Structure, Camouflage, Toxin Shells, Anthrax Beta, Arm thr Mob, AP Rockets, Radar Scan, Buggy Ammo, Junk Repair, Worker Shoes, AP Bullets, Bomb Truck High Explosives, Bomb Truck Toxins, Anthrax Gamma (Toxin), Suicide (Demo), Camo Netting (Camo): Total 19. Give or take depending on the General you choose.

 

China - Land Mines, Neutron Mines, Capture Building, Radar, Chain Guns, Black Napalm, MiG Armor, Subliminal Messaging, Nationalism, Neutron Shells, Uranium Shells, Nuclear Tanks, Satellite Hack 1, Satellite Hack 2, Isotope Stability (Nuke), Tactical Nuke MiG (Nuke), Helix Nuke, Helix Napalm, Helix Speaker tower, Helix Bunker, Helix Gatting Canon: Total 21. Give or take depending on the General you choose.

 

If I'm missing any list them. I didnt include general powers because theyre not upgrades. I didnt include Intellegence or Carpet Bomber because it comes with the strategy center. I didnt include the Combat Chinook because its not an upgrade.

[Guest kulgan]

what about the upgrades in the strategy center, hold the line, search and destroy and the other one i dont remember...

 

and im not talking about the NUMBER of upgrades, look at the big picture of the game... the strengh of the units...the fact that the gla doesnt have any air units...

i think zero hour still is balanced in the most part.

[Guest jturk3]

what about the upgrades in the strategy center, hold the line, search and destroy and the other one i dont remember...

 

and im not talking about the NUMBER of upgrades, look at the big picture of the game... the strengh of the units...the fact that the gla doesnt have any air units...

i think zero hour still is balanced in the most part.

 

I didnt include "hold the line", "search and destroy", or the increase firepower (I dont remember that one either) because they arent really upgrades. They are more of a bonus. You can change it at will. Plus you dont pay for each bonus.

[KyleBrogan 0]

The last one is Bombardment. (I can tell you guys don't play USA much by that simple fact. It's a staple of the USA Strategy.)

 

It just seems like the USA got stiffed. China can upgrade their Gattling weapons. They can upgrade their Flame weapons. They can upgrade their Nuke weapons. All more powerful, all stronger.

 

GLA can upgrade their Tank weapons. They can upgrade their Bullets, their Rockets. They can even upgrade their Structural Integrity as well as making their Anthrax even more potent.

 

But what about the USA? We can't upgrade any strength except for the Humvee, Raptor and Commanche. We get to make our Tank's armor a little stronger. That's the end. Considering Gattling and Quad Cannons tear Air Forces to pieces, and Nuclear and Antrax continue harming Units/Buildings even after we take them out, I don't see how it balances out. But that's just me.

 

- Spartie

[Guest jturk3]

By that simple fact, youre wrong. I use Air Force General a majority of the time. I use hold the line the most. Esecially at the beginning. By the time I have the enemy at bay, i forget about the strategy center and have enough air power to finish them.

 

Dont forget the Bunkerbusters. Drones, Sentry Drone Gun, Drone Armor. all valuable to the stopping and staying power of ground units.

[Guest platinumnuts]

Well there is one other thing.

 

The Air Force General, as soon as they build a strategy

center, gains a carpet bomb attack. So, in principle,

the AF General gains this kind of "long range" attack

long before any other opponent on the map. So, I believe

that is an advantage.

[Guest jturk3]

Well said. But its really not an upgrade. Extremely helpful though.