BWare

Thrice - 10 Tristania - 10 New A Static Lullaby - 12 Talking Heads - 12 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Showbread - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 2 Motley Crue - 6 (Hurt - Image over substance = fail) Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 8 (Heal - I really like the song "Lucky Man") Pearl Jam - 6 Barry White - 2 Winter Rose - 10 Alice Cooper - 10 God bless you luk3us.

yeah...... professional wrestling is.... great............

This is truly one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

Haha, I had an idea that it was pretty old, but had never seen it before. I had no idea it was THAT old!

King, seriously... it's good to hear strength like that coming from our allies overseas. I've always loved Britain and respected greatly your help and friendship, well, ever since the Revolutionary War (we got over that quickly :wink:). It's good to see you haven't all turned into hippies!

NKer, you are a blind fool. The world needs a defender now more than ever. We are in the MIDST of a third world war, a clash between civilizations of epic proportions. Radical Islam has already pretty much claimed Europe.... and you can't even see that in your own backyard. We have North Korea testing nukes, the evil psychopath in Iran very close to developing his own (and promising genocide), and you, in what has become an atrophied, lazy, decadent hellhole in Europe, can sit back and say that the world is at peace? Whether you think you need it or appreciate it, you NEED a superpower to keep these nuts in check. We never WANTED this! We got pulled into both world wars (you're welcome, by the way), and out of necessity, loyalty, and a sense of responsibilty we have for being the sole superpower (a benevolence absent ANYWHERE ELSE in history- again you're welcome) have remained the world "defender", as you put it. So you go ahead, sit back and relax, ignoring the growing tension all around you, and your DEFENDER, the United States, will be there to save the day when things fall apart... as they inevitably will. I'd love it just as much as you did if we just turned our back and left you to the wolves, but we're better people than that... even if the willingly blind can't see it. Alpha- again I ask you... one example, a single accomplishment besides "discussion", is all I ask.

Thrice - 10 Mae - 18 A Static Lullaby - 12 Talking Heads - 12 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Showbread - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 2 Motley Crue - 8 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 8 Pearl Jam - 6 Barry White - 2 Winter Rose - 10 Alice Cooper - 10

Of course!

Sorry, but you're incorrect. The world just isn't that black and white. Facts are still very grey at times and can be twisted and misused. Just look at global warming..... wrong assumptions even from accurate data, emotions aside, can lead to some horribly wrong conclusions. Can't blame that on emotion.

Spin it however you want. That was an American war that was fought and won BY Anerica. End of story. No no, that's what America did. Besides American victories, where else has the UN ever succeeded in "stopping aggression"? They do seem to excel at lining their own pockets.... Wow, two pieces of paper. That's pretty impressive.... especially when you consider the MANY nations in the UN who are STILL guilty of unspeakable human rights attrocities. Score one for the "declaration of human rights." Oh, and the non-proliferation treaty.... clearly working its magic on Iran and North Korea, am I right? Let me ask you this: How are those pieces of paper that you're apparently so proud of worth ANYTHING if they're written by the spineless UN? A United Nations "declaration" or "sanction" is utterly meaningless if not backed by US might... and even THEN we're called murderers by the same damn organization! Just give it up already. You can't POSSIBLY argue that the UN is worthwhile anywhere apart from your misplaced optimism. This is where the realist demolishes the idealist. It's ugly and frankly kinda depressing, but it's reality. Get your head outta the sand. Face it.

No no, of course not.... we just fund the VAST and OVERWHELMING majority of it. And what do we get in return? Nothing. Just more hate and disdain from the useless and corrupt morons who run it. I agree that kicking it OFF OUR SHORES would be a great move. They're nothing but an OBSTACLE to conflict resolutions, the exact OPPOSITE of their stated objective. It's not just that they're useless and thus neutral- they're HORRIBLY corrupt, making them a net negative force. They are great in concept, but we have to pull our heads out of the sand, grow up, and face harsh reality. The UN sucks. Oh yeah, the blue helmets did a HELL of a job there... oh wait, no. That was, once again, US Marines kicking ass so the UN doesn't have to.Plus, that war was not a total success. We didn't take it far enough. Would you call the current state of the Korean Peninsula a success? Way to go UN. :roll: ....and who supplies the vast majority of the UN peacekeepers? I'll give you 2 guesses, but you'll only need one. Bottom line: Without the US, the little good the UN is capable of vanishes. One thing further... how about citing for me a couple successes and accomplishments that we can thank the UN for. Just a couple! For the life of me I can't think of ONE. And you can't say that they've haven't had ample opportunity......

Haha, I do try.

Thrice - 10 Mae - 18 (Heal - Aw, thanks guys! ) A Static Lullaby - 12 Talking Heads - 12 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Showbread - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 2 Motley Crue - 8 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 8 Pearl Jam - 6 Barry White - 2 (Hurt) Winter Rose - 10 Alice Cooper - 10 Mae is a phenomenal band. They're relatively soft and mellow, but write some incredibly moving music.

You misrepresented the Bible there dude. Jesus wasn't talking about foreign policy- he was talking about personal attitudes and our own souls. The Bible really shouldn't be taken out of context like that. Plus, we're talking about 2 kinds of *respect. (Yet another problem with semantics...) They DO deserve respect in that they're capable of doing us damage- they should be respected to that extent. However, they don't deserve respect beyond that. That is, I have nothing but disdain and disgust for Kim Jong Il and his evil government- no respect.

Thrice - 10 Mae - 12 (Heal- Have you actually listened?) A Static Lullaby - 12 Talking Heads - 10 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Showbread - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 4 Motley Crue - 10 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 10 Pearl Jam - 6 (Hurt) Barry White - 4 Winter Rose - 10

...agreed, but wouldn't you admit that you can LEARN from historical examples? I never said that it should be handled in the exact same way... but it should be handled similarly.

Well said, and very original. :roll: Alpha, you're pretty right there.... the key IS pressure. You don't see US pressure as an option because it's been ignored in the past, but I don't think that ANY country would ignore a beefing up of our nuclear capabilities in their neck of the woods. That's what you call leverage.

I pretty much totally agree with you on this, but I had to say something about your Bush comment. That really isn't a fair charicarization at all. He's a good man, and sees war as a LAST resort (as any sane leader should). Do you think that he takes pleasure in sending the young fighting men in his country to fight and die overseas? Do you think he sleeps easily at night questioning whether he's doing the right thing? Just imagine the weight of the decisions he's been forced to make and the mental anguish it must bring. The kind of cold callousness, monstrous mischaracterization, and raging hatred that some people show toward him really doesn't help, as you could probably imagine. This is nothing but a false stereotype of a man who has had to put up with FAR too much hatred in his few years as president.Please... you're a smart guy. Don't stoop to the level (popular as it is) of considering Bush a trigger-happy cowboy. It's insensitive and false, and it gets old quickly. It is a pretty terrible situation, no question. North Korea is nuts, and China is cold, calculating, and really even more dangerous. We need to be smart, but we also need some strength in our leadership. Modernizing our nuke sites and increasing our nuclear presence overseas is probably a good idea. Historically, strength is the only thing that works. It's how we won the Cold War, and looks like our best bet with dealing with the crazy dog-eating midget in North Korea. Feared, maybe... they have yet to get the warhead delivery system down. But respected? Why do you believe that they deserve respect? Kim Jong Il IS a James Bond villain, and North Korea is pretty much a real life mirror of Orwell's nightmarish vision in 1984. I don't think that they AT ALL deserve our respect.

It's a really rough situation no matter how you look at it. :?

He already has nukes! There was some uncertainty, but he DID just recently test one in an underground explosion, and it was confirmed. But yes, it's bad either way. Nuclear proliferation sucks .

Thrice - 10 Mae - 14 (heal- you people don't like good music) A Static Lullaby - 10 Talking Heads - 10 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Showbread - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 6 Shinedown - 18 Stone Temple Pilots - 18 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 10 Pearl Jam - 8 (hurt) Barry White - 4

FALSE! I'm positive that it's not correct. What, were we not letting them surrender? The fact that it took TWO nukes should be proof enough here for ya. Beo is right. They swore to fight to the last man woman and child. They were savages. When they ran out of bombs and low on fuel, they used thier planes and pilots as bombs. As I said earlier, ending that insane conflict with the nukes was frankly an act of mercy.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it. You're drawing a moral equivalency here that is both idiotic and dangerous. North Korea is a VERY dangerous rogue country, and the fact that it has nukes is bad for the whole world. Would you be as willing to give nukes to Syria? How about Iran? What about Al Quaeda? They're just people like us! It would only be fair, right? :roll:

Ah... and now, once again, the sick and twisted liberal mindset reveals itself. You're actually assuming a moral equivalency here between the US and Iran... did you notice that? What?? Not being attacked is a right? Where on earth did you get that? :roll: This is just plain idiotic. You're telling me that if you see an army massing on your border, preparing to wipe you off the map, you have no right to hit them first? Preepmptive strikes are sometimes VERY justified. Ahmadinejad is the modern day Hitler. If he gets nukes, it will be VERY bad for everyone involved... even our yellow-bellied allies like NKer here. Go ahead and badmouth the US all you want, but in the end, it's the US who saves the world from the bad guys. NOT the corrupt UN. (Plus, international law is far more intricate and obscure than you make it seem. There isn't a simple 10 Commandments of international law :roll:) So you're actually going to believe Iranian propaganda... even after IDENTIFYING it as propaganda. Brilliant.(Oh, and Ahmadinejad IS that crazy. You're a blind fool if you don't see it.) Boy, that would be nice. However, the people are in no position to challenge their overbearing government in Iran. They need help. It's okay to be an idealist dude.... but it takes a realist to actually get anything done. Here's that sickening moral equivalency again. We're guilty of nuclear proliferation? That was a cute little underhanded attack, but how about owning up to it? What is that supposed to mean?It's good for everyone that America has nukes because we DON'T use them, and we keep the peace with them. Oh and also, you defer to the UN here without even giving a reason why or, probably, even any thought. Riiiiight..... and what about the massive corruption? How about the Oil for Food scandal (biggest in history)? Ring any bells? :lol:What's REALLY pathetic is that you couldn't even give me a contrary example :lol:. You admit that they're incompetent, but still want to trust them with the nuclear fate of the Middle East! Unbelievable.

Define "copout" .