BWare

They deserve it? Now I totally understand what you're saying here, but allow me to expand on this: You believe that the theft of some product is justified by its lack of availability? That is, if a store can't keep the XBox 360 in stock, you'd be justified in stealing one from your neighbor? Interesting logic there dude.... (just playing devil's advocate :wink:)

Seriously... I mean, they've done such a great job with these same situations in the past, right? They have YET to EVER work "effectively". When it comes to actually getting things done, it's usually up to the US. What's worse is that when we DO finally step in, we're called war-mongering monsters, or some other pacifist gibberish. Ugh. I say we follow the Reagan example (which DID work in the past, and brilliantly) and place strategic nuke launch sites at our bases in Japan and even South Korea. I think we have a couple nuke subs off the coast at the moment anyway... but the more the merrier.

YEEHAW! WELCOME back everyone.

Thrice - 10 Mae - 18 A Static Lullaby - 10 Talking Heads - 10 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Showbread - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 6 Shinedown - 16 Stone Temple Pilots - 12 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 10 Pearl Jam - 10 Barry White - 6

uh....

How can you make a jab at me now? If this were a Christian hacker group, you could make a snide comment, and that would be alright. If anything, this helps to prove me right! Modern Islam has been largely hijacked by folks who are focused on nothing but the death and destruction of the west.... and voila, here's some proof.

That doesn't make you selfish. That makes you stupid, short-sighted, and, quite possibly, suicidal. Now you REALLY need to learn something about how to treat your allies. If they're about to get wiped off the map, and you have the direct ability to prevent it, then how could you not? Israel and the US rely on each other, and we are also very loyal to each other. An attack on Israel is an attack on the US. No, we're not going to take your cowardly approach and cut our ties, leaving Israel to fend for themselves. Are you seriously suggesting this? :shock: Oh yes he would. That's be problem. Have you actually looked into this? The man is truly insane. He is a Muslim radical who actually believes that he will be an instrument of Armageddon, and will help usher in the 12th Imam, the righteous descendant of Muhammed. He believes that this will all happen in his lifetime, and what better way than to use nukes to wipe out the country that he already swore he would destroy? He's not joking around, and neither am I. We're not dealing with the relatively sane enemy we had in Russia. These Muslim radicals are a whole different breed. Plus, you DO realzie that nukes can be smuggled over borders, right? Frankly, I really don't feel like running the risk of having one of MY cities blown off the map after that monster hands off a nuke to a small terrorist group and smuggles it over, say, our border with Mexico. I'd MUCH rather eliminate that possibility now.... and it takes true leaders and strength (something apparently foreign to most of Europe) to think this way and, yes, to protect the planet. The world has basically been under the protection of the US since WWII, and especially since the UN has been so incapable of doing ANYTHING right in the last couple decades. And where do you get the idea that no nation has the right to attack another nation? Where did THAT come from? You say it as though it's common sense, but it could not be further from the truth.

Sounds...... like it will probably be a great game :wink: Still looking forward to it.

Alphabear, for a smart guy, you can sure be stupid as hell sometimes. I swear.... Cygnus explained this one very nicely. But one other thing: WHO CARES what the world thinks, or if we become "isolated"? Yes, I'm being the stereotypical American that the jealous, bitter, lazy, stereotypical European has learned to hate, but America has always been the one to do the RIGHT thing, international politics be damned, and our worthwhile allies respect us becase of it. We're leaders in that regard, and I frankly don't feel any shame because of it... call me crazy.

Interesting... I did notice that earlier today. I wonder if it has anything to do with the Islamic hackers who have been hitting other western sites lately? Ugh.

You are, once again, dead wrong on this. Oh, and, once again, you're the helpless victim of the sensationalized word, *gasp*, nuclear!. It's your contention that the destruction of those 2 cities was a state sponsored "terrorist" attack. What would you call the slower, more agonizing destruction of the many other cities in WWII with conventional weapons? What about the firebombing of Tokyo? What about Pearl Harbor? What about ANY event during a war? Again I invite you to pull your head out of the sand and see the obvious, GLARING differences between terrorist attacks (ie 9/11) and valid military strikes (ie Hiroshima). You seem glued to this point, but please, accept reality and move on. On August 6th, 1945, in the midst of a LONG and bloody war, the Enola Gay, painted with the US flag, dropped its nuclear payload on the city of a country that swore to fight us to the last man, even using their demented kamikaze suicide attacks in desperation. They were hell bent on dragging that bloody war out and costing MILLIONS more in casualties. The 2 nukes we ended up dropping were, if anything, an act of mercy! It brought that evil government to its knees and ended a massive, bloody conflict. On 9/11, 2001, A group of nationless terrorist bastards, under no flag but a perverted religious belief and the name of Allah, hijacked four airliners full of innocent civilians, slashing unsuspecting throats and seizing control. They then used those innocent, unsuspecting men, women, and children as missiles. They slammed those airliners into targets in the US designed to cause massive casualties. In this unprovoked attack, a suckerpunch to a nation not at war, thousands of innocents lost their lives. The fact that you can unite these two scenes under the same definition is really beyond me. :roll:

Thrice - 12 Mae - 18 (heal) A Static Lullaby - 10 Talking Heads - 10 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 Joe Satriani - 18 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Showbread - 10 (new guys) Crosby, Stills and Nash - 6 Shinedown - 16 Def Leppard - 18 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 10 Pearl Jam - 10 Barry White - 10 Ludacris - 0 (dead and gone)

Dude, do you even understand what I was saying there? Sheesh. I'm not going to even waste time rehashing it. Reread it if you want. But hey, since you're apparently so down on "giving your life" for an ideal, here's a good quote for ya:

No... it's a simple student film. Not bad, but not Hollywood. :wink:

Er, *sense? Anyway, your post was mostly a jumbled mess, and I made out what I could. The problem is your communication here dude. That's a very strange assumption. Obviously, if invasion was on the table, we wouldn't be having this debate. No... we're talking about a surgical strike and nothing more. Read up a bit on what Israel did in Operation Opera. This would be the same thing. Why are you assuming that an invasion would necessarily occur? :? Your point was hardly worth more than a word response, but hey, why not. Conventional bunker busters could not possibly take out everything that we need destroyed. I mean, in theory I suppose that it could maybe be done... but we're talking real life here. Just take one second to consider this: We'd be flying bombers into another country's heavily defended airspace. Don't you think that it would be in our best interests to minimize the amount of strikes necessary per facility? One bomb, done. Certain destruction. Doesnt' that beat several uncertain strikes per each of the hundreds of targets? Bottom line: Your point that we could accomplish the same thing without tactical nukes is, in fact, false.

Name one. Please... please pay attention the first time. I hate rehashing the same basic points here. Once again, let me point out a simple thing that shuts this argument down. This isn't some new movement that is suddenly gripping the heartland of America. This is a nutty, small group of people that has been around forever. There have pretty much always been nutty Pentecostals out there who teach this nonsense to their kids. That said, what has been the end result? We aren't waiting for it- we've seen it. Bottom line, there have been ZERO violent, terroristic outbursts from these folks anywhere near the scale of some of the violence we've seen recently. Now compare that with the global movement of Islamo-fascism...... yeah. Case in point, done. Now please don't waste any more time by bringing up this garbage point again, okay? Yes. It's also the same way that atheists are raised. It's also the same way that Buddhists are raised. Hell, it's the same way that bakers are raised! People raise their children by instilling certain values. This vague similarity between these Pentecostals and Islamic terrorists (and everyone else on earth) doesn't actually prove anything. You still have a REALLY loser point here man.

False. Yes.... yes it would. So would a conventional bombing. Your point? What exactly do you mean by this? Honestly, I can't understand this confusing sentence. Do you mean to say that Iran would invade the US after a preemptive bombing? Call me crazy, but I just don't see that happening.

Thrice - 12 Mae - 16 (Heal) A Static Lullaby - 10 Talking Heads - 10 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 Joe Satriani - 18 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 6 Shinedown - 16 Def Leppard - 16 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 10 Pearl Jam - 10 Ludacris - 4 (Hurt) Barry White - 10

Haha, that's not a bad idea! You see, my theory is like this.... the WELCOME is a test! If they're strong enough to not flinch and run away when someone yells welcome at them, then they're worthy to stay! It's a right of passage!

We've covered this before. It seems ironic to the surface observer. However, when you think hard enough to realize that these psychos have sworn the genocide and destruction of a certain people, are already guilty of horrible atrocities, and are currently racing to develop these NUCLEAR weapons, you start to see things as they are. This isn't a game- the fate of the freaking planet could be in danger. Small, tactical nukes are the only way to definitely wipe out the many underground research facilities he has. Priority one is knocking them out. The way we do it is really pretty irrelevant... unless you're so immature that you can't get past the semi-funny irony. :roll: Your snide little comment is great and all, but how about taking it one step further and proposing another solution? I sure as hell can't think of one.

Thrice - 12 Mae - 16 (Heal) A Static Lullaby - 10 Talking Heads - 10 Liquid Tension Experiment - 10 Joe Satriani - 16 The Agony Scene - 10 Frank Klepacki - 10 Crosby, Stills and Nash - 8 Shinedown - 14 Def Leppard - 16 Emerson, Lake, and Palmer - 10 Pearl Jam - 10 Ludacris - 6 (Hurt) Barry White - 10

Abortion bombings? Are you serious? Once again, let me refer to my previous point. There are currently thousands of Islamist "Jihadists" out there who are hell bent on the destruction of the west- LITERALLY. There are camps where they train them to shoot with REAL bullets at targets painted with crosses. There are LITERAL armies of terrorists out there who want people like you and me dead. To compare this massive, GLOBAL movement to the couple isolated abortion bombings from years ago is nothing short of idiotic. And the IRA? You have to be kidding me! They are NOT religiously motivated. Their aims are purely political! They're Christians killing Christians! Plus, they haven't committed anything near what the Islamist terrorists have done. Again, let me ask you to knock off these ridiculous comparisons. They're unfair, false, and ignorant.

Have you? They do MASSIVE damage... but in the right place. Do you want those nuclear research bunkers wiped out or not? Do you have a better solution? Leang, why are you overreacting about this? :? Ahmadinejad is a psychopath whose research program MUST be stopped at all costs. The worst case scenario would be him with his finger on the red button. The guy has SWORN the destruction of Israel! For those of you who are so damn eager to draw Nazi parallels to extremist Christians (:roll:), how about taking a look at THIS guy? He is, in his OWN WORDS, hell bent on wiping the Jews off the face of the earth.

Boy, this is a REALLY easy question. Here's the answer: Their religious teachings have led to unspeakable atrocities and the murder of thousands in the last couple years. These guys? Nothing. Bottom line. It sure sounds nice to push the same freaking "We're all the same! Let's all hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya!" nonsense, but you'd frankly be an idiot to buy into it. Show me the Christian extremist equivalent of 9/11, and you'll have my attention. Until then, knock off the senseless comparisons. :roll:

WELCOME.