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hxazgalor

Red Alert: Chaos Theory - New ideas for an ol' favorite

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hxazgalor    0

I originally posted this in the topic "C&C With a New Storyline" but I thought I'd just start up a new topic here to share what I did these past few months.

 

I actually drafted (and am still drafting) a whole new take on the entire C&C universe. Put it all on a couple of .rtf files too, so will upload them later when the last few bits of their details are done.

Essentially, things will kick off at the end of Yuri's Revenge. The tentative title for the first of 6 parts (going from RA to TW) is Red Alert: Chaos Theory. It'll be an RTS and a mod for Tiberium Wars (I kinda like the engine, though I do know the RA3 engine looks cooler and stuff). Here's the intro summary I wrote:

"The Allies have succeeded in defeating Yuri's psychic forces with the aid of the Soviet Union. A new lasting peace treaty was formed between both factions in the wake of Yuri's defeat, with both President Dugan and Premier Romanov pledging to collaborate and rebuild all that was destroyed in the long war. Unfortunately for them, Yuri's legacy yet lives on in the form of his most promising disciple, Alastor. Bent on freeing his master and continuing where they have left off, Alastor leads a new legion of fanatical psychic warriors against the combined might of the Allies and Soviets."

 

I must apologize in advance, though, as some elements of Chaos Theory may or may not be heavily influenced by Mental Omega's plot and units, and even a wee bit from Twisted Insurrection. These will be changed if anyone has some better suggestions to offer. The plot is also still in prototype stage, so that's also open for discussion.

 

There will be three major factions duking it out: the Allies, specializing in high tech, high quality units; the Soviets with superior firepower and now some added flexibility (due to a faltering economy); and the Psychic Legion that rose from the ashes of Yuri's Psychic Army, specializing in stealth, psionics and advanced weapons tech.

 

Gameplay's going to be the usual C&C fare: build bases, mine ore, build an army, win. It's going to employ the RA3 system where (almost) every unit gets a special ability, and there will be support powers available to each faction and are faction specific (like the Top Secret Protocols in RA3, but available to the player after building specific structures like in C&C3; they also cost cash to use). Each faction also has sub-factions that add new units, buildings and/or support powers, much like Kane's Wrath. I don't think there's gonna be any new features to add, but again this idea of mine is still in its "early alpha" stages so comments are most welcome.

 

I have to admit that I'm quite new to the entire C&C universe, especially the Tiberium Wars one, so I'm sure that there will be a few errors here and there in the plot and what-not. In any case, below you can find the first general document that details each factions' unit, base structure, and support power line-up, as well as a few extra bits of stuff. I'll be adding detailed info files for each faction in the near future, once I finish up the one for the Legion. Expect to see new stuff up here every now and then, whenever I'm able to add stuff.

 

Also, I am not actually planning on making a C&C3 mod for this, as I don't have the time nor the resources to make it possible. But if anyone is intrigued and is keen on trying their hand at turning this into a mod, then by all means please do. I'll help out as best as I can with the story and vision, as well as any other ideas I can try and think up.

 

I actually joined the CNCZ community just to share this, haha. Anyways, enjoy and do leave your feedback on what you think of it so far. Thanks guys :D

 

RA2 Chaos Theory.rtf

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GeneralJist    6

Well,

I skimmed around the document.

How did you determine the costs of everything?

 

The way you did it is the common way I've seen, just list all the units and stuff you want in one huge list.

 

It's difficult for us to get a good sense of this.

 

From a game designer's perspective, I'd say you should break it down by roles, and then balance them across all your factions, filling out what each of your units will fill.

 

It's rather difficult to geta sense of it all TBH.

Looks liike a lot, and I'm more hten willing to help you develo this into a more workable proposal, but you've just fallen into one of the mosrt common traps I've seen.

 

People Detail everything they want, everything, and althoguh it's cool to see what you;ve come up with, ask yourself, how much of what you just wrote up has been done before? what units behave teh same?

What is differnt?

 

You also seemed to combine Generals and RA universes.

As wel as Naval.

 

As said above, if fyou want this become more then just a cool thought experiment, then break open a spread sheet, and start transcribing them over, so people can directly compare things.

 

It's all up tp upi how far you want to take it.

 

Also, sorry to burst your buble, but it takes a lot for someone to be inspired and work on another person's ideas.

Most of the time, it's just you working, and you have ti be fine with that.

Everyone has their own ideas on how to do things, what sets you apart from them?

 

You;ve taken the 1st step by gtting all your ideas writen down, the next is organizing and presenting tehm in a more palatable fassion.

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hxazgalor    0

Wow, thank you. That was a very detailed critique, and I needed that. :idea::idea::idea:

 

I know, there're a lot of borrowed ideas and cliched unit ideas that have made their way here. And sorry about the mess; I actually have three separate documents outlining the basic stats and stories behind the units for each faction that were made after finishing the super long sheet; I'll upload them soon enough when I get the chance. Unfortunately, they're not written in spreadsheets so I hope that's OK with ya :P

 

[Random note: I recommend using the Jarte wordpad to browse, as it has a handy bookmarking feature to mark sections and jump to those sections effortlessly; though I'm not sure if bookmarks are 'stored' in the file and are thus lost if you open it in Jarte on another computer]

 

I'm not really keen on building up a mod, though doing so does seem to be a very exciting proposition. Rather, I thought I'd just share it over here and see what people think of it in general: scope, story, plotline, etc. If anyone actually wants to use it and refine it and make a mod out of these ideas, then knock yourself out; just simple credits will do, and perhaps maybe discuss about the plot and all.

 

Right now, the storyline is weak. I only have a general inkling as to how the events in this new war will ultimately shape GDI and bring about the rise of NOD and the subsequent 'arrival' of Tiberium on Earth. And then it's a whole new story between GDI and NOD's conflicts (and honestly, not to mention shamelessly, with a few elements from TI *cringe*) before I decide to go further from there - if I decide to go further from there. Essentially plot is still in the drafting works but right now with IRL responsibilities, I don't know if I can have the time to work on it's development. Again, I reiterate the community's role if they want to step in.

 

Technically, the roles of the three factions are largely the same as they were back in YR: the Allies are the tech power, with their robots and lasers and chrono weapons; the Soviets are the military powerhouse with Rhinos, Apocs and other super heavies that will be featured in later chapters (aka expansion 'packs'); and the Legion (Yuri) rely on stealth, psionics and hit-and-run. Of course, with a larger number of units at your disposal, it's up to you to stick with the familiars, or go in a different direction despite the roles.

 

Let's also not forget unit versatility: Apocs, for example, might be the most powerful tank in the Soviet arsenal, but that doesn't mean building a whole bunch of them will win you games. Well, some games. But regardless of that, Apocs are pretty easy to counter if you know how. Battle Fortresses, while unable to crush Apocs, are still a deadly force to tangle with; Apaches can make short work of Apocs with their rockets; well-placed and well-timed Chrono Legionnaires can do the trick; even Tanya can have a chance of blowing them up sky high.

 

On that note: many of the special units might seem redundant, I know, but some players might find a use for them while others might favor other units or even just the standard ones. That's fine. Tactics are what generals make of them. I'm not that particular over similarities with other units (unless there's a copyright involved, of course, but that's an excuse :P ) but... well, I kinda lost my train of thought at this moment.

 

Anyway moving on for now.

 

I wouldn't really think of myself and these ideas as 'standing out' or 'raising a bar' or anything like that. Most of the ideas I get are based on ideas that have already been made known, though with maybe a few tweaks and turns here and there. Not original, I know, but one has to try, right? It's just how to twist things around to get something completely different from the rest. I hope to get there soon enough. So for the time being, I can't really say if there's anything that makes me stand out, or at least not just yet. Maybe in time...

 

In the meantime, this is just a 'testbed', so to speak. I'm just looking to 'recreate' (if I can use that cliched word) the C&C universe in my own vision by putting in the familiars and the new bits, and then melding them into something unique, or at least coherent/fun/cool/etc. to both old and new C&C fans (support powers, diverse selection of units, various tactical options, a different, believable storyline). It probably won't win over gamers the way TI and MO can do it. But hey, if people like it, then that's what matters. I'm just in it for the fun :D haha

 

Again, thanks for the response :):idea: I do hope you'll reply soon to this, hee~ :dance:

Edited by hxazgalor

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hxazgalor    0

For your perusal, GeneralJist :3 this only covers units, though, not buildings.

 

RA2 Chaos Theory ALLIES.rtf

 

RA2 Chaos Theory LEGION.rtf

 

RA2 Chaos Theory SOVIETS.rtf

 

RA2 CT Act II.rtf

 

Note some similarities with MO units >< humblest of apologies; I'll get them ironed out with something new when I can, and then reupload the edited versions.

 

Oh, I forgot to answer the first bit :P I just assigned a value that I felt was appropriate for the unit, based on its stats, abilities, etc. Very, very bad to do that kind of thing, I know. Can you tell me how to properly assign a value to a unit then?

Edited by hxazgalor

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GeneralJist    6

Well, to start,

nothign personal, but I'm heavilly biased tward the Tiberium universe, so TBH, not so interested in all of it, had a skim though.

Maybe you should look up some RA moders/ mods and ask for thier oppiinions.

 

As for how to set costs.

You can either do a mathmatical relationship

 

or,

just don't at this time.

 

Setting costs at this staage would be irelevent, we have no idea how the ecomomy will function, in relation to balancing the factions, and relative power.

 

You can do a basic to represent the power value of each unit/ structure, but it's not going to make a difference unless this goes into production, and gets to alpha, (for RTS, that takes years)

 

So, best advice, I don't hink you should worry about costs right now, focus more on developing creative solutions to the roles needed.

if you want to represent the power level increase of thikngs, you can set T1 unit as X value, and day a T3 unit is at least 2-3X more effectove at it's role.

 

The key is to deeply think about your faction theses & the technologies they have as a result, and figure out how they do things is different than the others, if it's more or less efective, and how that might be strategically balanced.

Well, to start,

nothign personal, but I'm heavily biased toward the Tiberium universe, so TBH, not so interested in all of it, had a skim though.

Maybe you should look up some RA moders/ mods and ask for their opinions.

 

As for how to set costs.

You can either do a mathematical relationship

 

or,

just don't at this time.

 

Setting costs at this stage would be irrelevant, we have no idea how the economy will function, in relation to balancing the factions, and relative power.

 

You can do a basic to represent the power value of each unit/ structure, but it's not going to make a difference unless this goes into production, and gets to alpha, (for RTS, that takes years)

 

So, best advice, I don't think you should worry about costs right now, focus more on developing creative solutions to the roles needed.

if you want to represent the power level increase of things, you can set T1 unit as X value, and day a T3 unit is at least 2-3X more effective at its role.

 

The key is to deeply think about your faction theses & the technologies they have as a result, and figure out how they do things is different than the others, if it's more or less effective, and how that might be strategically balanced.

 

For example,

for my project, I went across all 6 factions and went role by role definition, and then tweaked the roles effectiveness. By filling out the unit/ structure, I went it needs to be better in this way, and worse in others.

 

If a unit is better in an attribute than another faction, you must balance another area. ( it might not be in the same role)

 

Getting diversity and balance is the hardest thing, but think creatively, and stay consistent with your themes, and you might be surprised as to what you come up with.

 

 

For example,

for my project, I went across all 6 factions and went role by role definition, and then tweeked the roles effectiveness.

 

If a unit is bretter in an atribute than another faction, you must balnce another area.

 

Getting diversity and balance is the hardest thing, but think creativelly, and stay consistant with your themes, and you might be surprised as to what you come up with.

Edited by GeneralJist

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