Roundtable Discussion #11 - August 2008

[Saracen 16]

It's the end of another month, and that only can mean one thing. Edition number 11 of our popular Roundtable Discussion is now here on CNCNZ.com. Instead of asking numerous questions on different topics this month, there's only one that matters. This month we have a dedicated Red Alert 3 Special. Here's this month's Roundtable Panel line up:

• Saracen - CNCNZ.com Co-Webmaster
  
• Sonic - CNCNZ.com Webmaster
  
• Chickendippers - CNC World
  
• Banshee - Project Perfect Mod
  
• Chronojam - A Path Beyond
  
• Raiden4900 - BattleCast Primetime Denmark
  
• TheBlackOut - CNCNZ.com Forums Moderator
  

 

Many Thanks to everyone for taking the time to participate this month. Click here to read Roundtable Discussion #11.

[Nmenth 289]

Chickendippers' response in question 3 is pretty much how I feel. The male actors get hired for their acting, the females get hired for their chest size. It is pathetic. Nevertheless, I make no final opinions until I play the real game.

[TheBlackOut 6]

Chickendippers' response in question 3 is pretty much how I feel. The male actors get hired for their acting, the females get hired for their chest size. It is pathetic. Nevertheless, I make no final opinions until I play the real game.

Did you ever play Red Alert 2? The women were hot, and they acted good I thought.

[Nmenth 289]

Did you ever play Red Alert 2? The women were hot, and they acted good I thought.

 

I didn't say the actresses couldn't act, I just said they weren't hired for their acting ability.

Edited August 31, 2008 by Nmenth

[TheBlackOut 6]

I didn't say the actresses couldn't act, I just said they weren't hireed for their acting ability.

You make boobs feel sound like a bad thing.

[Nmenth 289]

You make boobs sound like a bad thing.

 

There is a time and place for things, and I don't like my games splattered with sex just to appeal to the target customer. I realize that is how they make a profit these days, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of it. Back in the good old days, they didn't need scantly clad women to sell their games, I miss that.

 

As Chickendippers said,

If I want to look at cleavage I'll buy Zoo magazine.

[Luk3us 63]

Boobs are a good thing. Besides the core of the game doesn't have any tits up in your face all the time..

 

Unless you like building Tanya for the Allies a lot... Lol....

[Chronojam 3]

Two thoughts:

 

Do you wants tits on your queens when you play chess?

 

Will this attract or amuse girl gamers (or little kids) at all?

[TheBlackOut 6]

Damn, should have asked one more question with the round table. "Do you like boobs in video games?"

 

There is a time and place for things, and I don't like my games splattered with sex just to appeal to the target customer. I realize that is how they make a profit these days, but that doesn't mean I have to approve of it. Back in the good old days, they didn't need scantly clad women to sell their games, I miss that.

There were tons of sex games back in the day, just it's hard to make out boobs when they're pixelated. It's not like the whole game is a soft-core porno.

 

Boobs are a good thing. Besides the core of the game doesn't have any tits up in your face all the time..

 

Unless you like building Tanya for the Allies a lot... Lol....

Exactly.

 

Two thoughts:

 

Do you wants tits on your queens when you play chess?

 

Will this attract or amuse girl gamers (or little kids) at all?

No, but that's a board game. RA3 is a RA title. There has to be boobs!

 

Girls and little kids play chess? News to me (and it would amuse little boys for sure)

[hagren 0]

I think everyone who is shocked by these underdressed women and worries about morale should go out and take a good look at how 12 year old girls dress these days.

[Nmenth 289]

I think everyone who is shocked by these underdressed women and worries about morale should go out and take a good look at how 12 year old girls dress these days.

 

I do hope you don't advocate the 12-year-old sluts.

 

Anyway, I'm not 'shocked' or concerned about 'morale' (did you mean morality?). My point is that when they hire actresses boobs and then barely cover them, it detracts from the believability of the storyline. They don't have to only hire ugly people, but they also don't have to make it so painfully obvious that they are inducing acne-faced boys to buy their game because it has the closest thing to nudity their parents won't freak out over.

[TheBlackOut 6]

I do hope you don't advocate the 12-year-old sluts.

 

Anyway, I'm not 'shocked' or concerned about 'morale' (did you mean morality?). My point is that when they hire actresses boobs and then barely cover them, it detracts from the believability of the storyline. They don't have to only hire ugly people, but they also don't have to make it so painfully obvious that they are inducing acne-faced boys to buy their game because it has the closest thing to nudity their parents won't freak out over.

Tell me when has RA ever been series ever since RA1? RA1 had a serious atmosphere (which I liked way better than RA2 and YR) but it still wasn't totally series. The sex hinted between the woman and Stalin, the poisoning, Tanya, etc. RA isn't suppose to be believable.

[Gben 20]

Two thoughts:

Do you wants tits on your queens when you play chess?

 

 

I didn't know this was an option... but 'Yes' please!

 

.

.

.

The whole industry is skewered to surface image issues for female actors. The whole story that Sonic posted about Kari removing her assets... really, really saddened me.

I mean seriously, how many 'young' ugly female actors can you name that have 'made' it?

[Nmenth 289]

Tell me when has RA ever been series ever since RA1? RA1 had a serious atmosphere (which I liked way better than RA2 and YR) but it still wasn't totally series. The sex hinted between the woman and Stalin, the poisoning, Tanya, etc. RA isn't suppose to be believable.

 

When I say believability of the storyline, I don't mean the seriousness. There is a difference. Believability is that, although unrealistic, you can still put yourself into their fantasy world. When the believability is removed, it loses the sense that you are living it and becomes that you are just playing it. A well written storyline can maintain an aspect of believability no matter how ludicrous the world is in which you play.

[Chronojam 3]

Tell me when has RA ever been series ever since RA1? RA1 had a serious atmosphere (which I liked way better than RA2 and YR) but it still wasn't totally series. The sex hinted between the woman and Stalin, the poisoning, Tanya, etc. RA isn't suppose to be believable.

It's not neccessarily about the "maturity" of the content, C&C had murders and some political drama and RA1 had the sexual overtones and alcoholism in addition to genocide. All with a much smaller budget in terms of money, memory, and CG. You even get to see Stavros basically have a breakdown when his country's invaded over a couple cutscenes. Leading to a bit of dark humor at the end of the Allies' campaign.

 

The thing is that I guess things were subtle, it wasn't just boobs in your face and LOL THAT CRAZY YURI back in the day. Some of that refinement was kicked aside. It was totally believable, when the Allies tested the Chronosphere the Soviets weren't like "Gee Whilly we sure are in a pickle! You better bust that place up, commander! . Haha get me my office back." They were ****** off, and not in a slapstick fashion. Tanya used to be a pretty strong figure, maybe a sex symbol for the series given her little icon even had the "female" symbol as crosshairs, but it wasn't all just "Commander come into my tent and stare upon my breasts." Now Tanya's only a blonde bimbo, it seems, with nothing extra. Something's been lost, there. And I'm not talking about "hehe commander we lost Tanya's transmission ."

 

It's really only an issue with Tanya, but if you slippery slope things it would devolve into Generals Plus Tits here, right? Keep some of the seriousness and character development. Who knows, they might surprise us in the end and the casting choice there will turn out okay; but if she's only going to bring tits to the table instead of substance, I'd rather have them spend the money on extending their support cycle.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Chronojam

[TheBlackOut 6]

It's not neccessarily about the "maturity" of the content, C&C had murders and some political drama and RA1 had the sexual overtones and alcoholism in addition to genocide. All with a much smaller budget in terms of money, memory, and CG. You even get to see Stavros basically have a breakdown when his country's invaded over a couple cutscenes. Leading to a bit of dark humor at the end of the Allies' campaign.

 

The thing is that I guess things were subtle, it wasn't just boobs in your face and LOL THAT CRAZY YURI back in the day. Some of that refinement was kicked aside. It was totally believable, when the Allies tested the Chronosphere the Soviets weren't like "Gee Whilly we sure are in a pickle! You better bust that place up, commander! . Haha get me my office back." They were ****** off, and not in a slapstick fashion. Tanya used to be a pretty strong figure, maybe a sex symbol for the series given her little icon even had the "female" symbol as crosshairs, but it wasn't all just "Commander come into my tent and stare upon my breasts." Now Tanya's only a blonde bimbo, it seems, with nothing extra. Something's been lost, there. And I'm not talking about "hehe commander we lost Tanya's transmission ."

 

It's really only an issue with Tanya, but if you slippery slope things it would devolve into Generals Plus Tits here, right? Keep some of the seriousness and character development. Who knows, they might surprise us in the end and the casting choice there will turn out okay; but if she's only going to bring tits to the table instead of substance, I'd rather have them spend the money on extending their support cycle.

Now I agree with you, but the thing is, I don't see any reason to complain anymore. I loved RA1's atmosphere and storytelling so much more than any other C&C, even more so than TD (not by much though). It was just great, period. But that will never occur again under EA, it's just not how they're going to make RA or any other C&C game. I just let that fact go and I am happy to see a developing C&C that is decent. Kind of sad now that I think about it, but hey, such is life.

 

I really think everyone should that is really tied to Westwood's style of C&C should try and release their hope of seeing C&C made by EA with WW's style of storytelling, it just isn't going to happen and when we hope that does, we get let down.

 

edit: If some of this doesn't make sense, I'll reread it when I wake up.. it's 3:20am right now, grammar not my strong point when tired.

[Saracen 16]

I can see where Chronojam is going with this. I had the same problem with Red Alert 2. Back then though, it was more of a shock to the system than it is now. In fact now, I don't really notice the so-called sex appeal since I was half expecting it in this game.

 

Even though the huge majority of gamers playing C&C are male, there are still plenty of females about who get into it. The likes of my own sister and DonCarlo of the XWIS strike team are just a couple of women who play C&C. Somehow I don't think they'd like to see women's boobs half on show. If the table was turned in the expansion pack, and the male commanders had giant cod pieces, socks rammed down their crotch area to make them look "big", and the cameramen emphasised that fact by making a man's crotch the centre of attention, there'd be an uproar in the community! Sure, my sister and DonCarlo would probably like it very much... but really, is the scenario any different?

 

To be honest, it's an old and tired thing now. I'd say get the focus of the boobs and make something with actual depth.

 

I really think everyone should that is really tied to Westwood's style of C&C should try and release their hope of seeing C&C made by EA with WW's style of storytelling, it just isn't going to happen and when we hope that does, we get let down.

 

It's not really the Westwood style that people are after. People are after quality. Why should a company spend thousands (or even Hundreds of thousands) of dollars on FMV development if no-one can even pull off a decent performance. What makes C&C is not just the classic sidebar, the gameplay, and a twist of new features per title. It's the traditional FMVs and story, and the convincing roles that make you feel like a War Commander, and not some average Joe gamer playing an RTS. If EA cannot pull it off, then they need to learn to hire someone who has the skills, has the movie direction ability, and can make it work.

 

In fact, EA need to clear out a room in house, and make their own FMV production studio... The foundations are there with BCPT already. But the advantages are not just about filming movies for a single franchise. With blue screen abilities and such, there can be room to allow animators in to create life like CGI animations and plenty more besides, it would be an extremely powerful tool for all future EALA titles. It would certainly outweigh any financial disadvantages in the long term.

[hagren 0]

It's not neccessarily about the "maturity" of the content, C&C had murders and some political drama and RA1 had the sexual overtones and alcoholism in addition to genocide. All with a much smaller budget in terms of money, memory, and CG. You even get to see Stavros basically have a breakdown when his country's invaded over a couple cutscenes. Leading to a bit of dark humor at the end of the Allies' campaign.

 

The thing is that I guess things were subtle, it wasn't just boobs in your face and LOL THAT CRAZY YURI back in the day. Some of that refinement was kicked aside. It was totally believable, when the Allies tested the Chronosphere the Soviets weren't like "Gee Whilly we sure are in a pickle! You better bust that place up, commander! . Haha get me my office back." They were ****** off, and not in a slapstick fashion. Tanya used to be a pretty strong figure, maybe a sex symbol for the series given her little icon even had the "female" symbol as crosshairs, but it wasn't all just "Commander come into my tent and stare upon my breasts." Now Tanya's only a blonde bimbo, it seems, with nothing extra. Something's been lost, there. And I'm not talking about "hehe commander we lost Tanya's transmission ."

 

It's really only an issue with Tanya, but if you slippery slope things it would devolve into Generals Plus Tits here, right? Keep some of the seriousness and character development. Who knows, they might surprise us in the end and the casting choice there will turn out okay; but if she's only going to bring tits to the table instead of substance, I'd rather have them spend the money on extending their support cycle.

So your only gripe is that she's blonde? Since she's not in any way more naked or less serious than Tanya from RA2. Even in RA2, there was some attraction between you and the female members of the military.

 

Nmenth: No, I don't advocate the 12 year old "sluts", I'm against that developement as much as everybody else is.

However, I do not see much revealed yet in the game, even if Natasha's nakedness bothers me a little. But that's all.

[TheBlackOut 6]

It's not really the Westwood style that people are after. People are after quality. Why should a company spend thousands (or even Hundreds of thousands) of dollars on FMV development if no-one can even pull off a decent performance. What makes C&C is not just the classic sidebar, the gameplay, and a twist of new features per title. It's the traditional FMVs and story, and the convincing roles that make you feel like a War Commander, and not some average Joe gamer playing an RTS. If EA cannot pull it off, then they need to learn to hire someone who has the skills, has the movie direction ability, and can make it work.

 

In fact, EA need to clear out a room in house, and make their own FMV production studio... The foundations are there with BCPT already. But the advantages are not just about filming movies for a single franchise. With blue screen abilities and such, there can be room to allow animators in to create life like CGI animations and plenty more besides, it would be an extremely powerful tool for all future EALA titles. It would certainly outweigh any financial disadvantages in the long term.

Hmm, I agree with your post, but I still believe their are quite a few people holding out for a "Westwood" C&C still to this day.

[Chronojam 3]

So your only gripe is that she's blonde? Since she's not in any way more naked or less serious than Tanya from RA2. Even in RA2, there was some attraction between you and the female members of the military.

I'm curious how you came to that conclusion but it might have involved not reading what I said, or perhaps just not understanding. I completely hated the Tanya-In-Tent movies in RA2, and it looks like those are back; I rolled my eyes more than... whatever it is you probably do whenever one comes up as a briefing :lol:

 

 

Now I agree with you, but the thing is, I don't see any reason to complain anymore.

 

We must always complain regarding EA's choices

Edited September 3, 2008 by Chronojam

[Alex06 39]

The RA3 Premier Edition DOES come with a Poster.

It's a "Women of RA3" poster. The PE even comes in a platinum tin box instead of the boring old dual DVD box.