New Poll: What Will the Next C&C Game Be?

[Malevolence 6]

They can always set Generals universe right by doing a re-imaging version of it. They should replace China to Khans and GLA with Africans, something like the concept arts.

[Silverthorn 0]

Whow! What's with the double paragraph?

 

Anyway, I have to agree with the faction change, if they change it, we're all saved. After all, from the way I see to the world, I got the feeling that Asian countries are too sensitive to participate as factions except Korea & Japan, they're fine with it but as long as it doesn't provoke them with monumental stuff. China was fine until EA provoke them by destroying their monuments or worse, making their faction look weak by all that killing of their infantry.

[Sonic 296]

Me personally I want a new C&C FPS, a Renegade 2 would be a great success. I would settle for C&C 4 as well.

 

Generals 2 would annoy me, I don't want to see any more games from that universe. After Generals and Zero Hour there is nothing to build upon that warrants a sequel. If it turns out to be Generals 2 my only interest would be enough to cover to for the site. That's assuming it says C&C in the title. Who knows, they my drop that part like they did with Tiberium.

[Malevolence 6]

Whow! What's with the double paragraph?

 

Sorry my bad. The internet was lagging that bad just now that i have to hit F5 twice by accident to get the post posted.

 

Chill, Sonic, chill, didn't know you hated Generals that bad. What I was mentioning earlier wasn't a sequel to Generals 2, but hoping that if EA does a Generals game, I'm hoping that its a "remake" of it to fit the "Command & Conquer" title it should deserved years ago.

[hagren 0]

On the other hand, Gens was popular in the MP community exactly for being different, so by changing it, EA would anger its fanbase.

[Malevolence 6]

Generals was designed mainly for MP. That brings joy for a number of hardcore multiplayer fans and that was how they joined the C&C fanclub.

[Silverthorn 0]

About that C&C name, EA abused it by using C&C on a regular RTS like Generals, that's why it provokes us on how come it runs on typical RTS systems like bottom bars & dozer system. That's why we got all the hell of flames of Generals is no C&C, bla bla bla. Sure, Generals maybe part of EA & it also became some of people's favorite, they can build Generals 2, BUT WITHOUT the C&C name in it which if only Generals 1 did not use it in the first place! No matter if it's going to add the MCV & sidebars, the sequel to the 1st game will not match with each other, that's why it's best not to revive the universe. Or else like I said which Generals fans (Some who are too new to get used to the original C&C systems) will shout like this "Hey! How come Generals now contains the C&C systems, where is our bottom bar?! Where is our dozers?! How dare you, EA. **** you!"

 

That's why we must be careful not to abuse the C&C name, Generals 1 would have been better if they don't use the C&C name, but in this case, it's too late now. So my best option is to create a brand new universe to seal Generals' fate, sure, I also don't mind an MMO or an FPS. As long as it stays C&C, then it'll be ok. Most of all, do not let it die just like Tiberium did.

[Gben 20]

Sonic can you just add in one more "Totally new C&C RTS" option in it?

 

 

Once a poll has started I don't like add more options, especially after its been going for a couple of days.

 

Besides, C&C doesn't need fourth universe.

 

 

Well that's your opinion, what about ours?

 

I'm not asking for a new poll, your ones are always within strict paramaters anyway. I just think Gen2 would be okay, but it's such a controversial topic for hardcore Westwoodians that I would suggest a new IP. Ignoring dozer/C&C title issues - Generals is a modern warware RTS. Why shouldn't they have another crack at it? They just need to create a new fictional tension point in the modern setting and go for it. (If they made the US the evil faction, I'm sure they could sell the game in China! LOL.)

 

I repeat my comment, I expect C&C4 (in some form maybe MMO), I want FPS, I wouldn't mind Gen2.

[Sonic 296]

Well that's your opinion, what about ours?

 

I'm not asking for a new poll, your ones are always within strict paramaters anyway. I just think Gen2 would be okay, but it's such a controversial topic for hardcore Westwoodians that I would suggest a new IP. Ignoring dozer/C&C title issues - Generals is a modern warware RTS. Why shouldn't they have another crack at it? They just need to create a new fictional tension point in the modern setting and go for it. (If they made the US the evil faction, I'm sure they could sell the game in China! LOL.)

A fourth C&C universe would be a bad idea, they haven't even finished the overall story arc with the original yet. Make C&C 4 that ties up many loose ends then they could think about a new IP for C&C.

 

Also, why does everyone keep bringing up Westwood all the time, like they are coming back or something. Let it go guys and move on.

 

[Silverthorn 0]

Well, I got to be honest and I hope I'm not the only Westwoodian who is nice to talk this over. If we let our lives move on & accept EA as the new developer, here's the huge side effect and what we will predict if there's no more WW spirit to roam around :

 

The entire franchise will be completely ****ed up if the spirit of Westwood is finally gone. Without the WW spirit, the new C&C games (no matter if it's TW or RA3 or the next C&C game) would have been A LOT WORSE than Generals 1! Without WW, the franchise will just keep the ratings going down & down & down until the entire franchise explodes. And when it explodes, you know what will happen, sales will never profit, fansites will be closed, etc..

[Sonic 296]

I just don't see things the way you do Silverthorn.

 

And honestly speaking, the C&C franchise is in good hands. I've spoken with the devs at EALA face to face and they are clearly very passionate about the future of the franchise. You (and many more in this community) may see them as this cold faceless corporate monster but I don't. The whole "bring back Westwood" thing has been going on for so long now, its getting ridiculous still seeing people clinging to false hope. Trust me when I say that the C&C franchise is right where it needs to be.

[hagren 0]

Well, I got to be honest and I hope I'm not the only Westwoodian who is nice to talk this over. If we let our lives move on & accept EA as the new developer, here's the huge side effect and what we will predict if there's no more WW spirit to roam around :

 

The entire franchise will be completely ****ed up if the spirit of Westwood is finally gone. Without the WW spirit, the new C&C games (no matter if it's TW or RA3 or the next C&C game) would have been A LOT WORSE than Generals 1! Without WW, the franchise will just keep the ratings going down & down & down until the entire franchise explodes. And when it explodes, you know what will happen, sales will never profit, fansites will be closed, etc..

What on earth are you talking about? The WW spirit in us? In the devs? Is there some in them now? If so, why would it fade? If not, why is TW/RA3 better than it could have been?

 

If I were you, I'd start giving the guys some credit. Apoc communicates much more openly to us than before, there are ton of contests and surveys, we saw how they listened to the community multiple times, and we've also experienced how they clashed almost every drawback of TW with RA3. I dig Isgreen, Sperry and Legg as anyone else, but please, let's be unbiased and realistic here and just look at the facts- UaW and Petroglyph haven't turned out to be better than EALA and their efforts, and some key members even left Petro afterwards.

 

So please, let's accept it once and for all, after 8 years that EALA is the future and WW is dead. How about we respect both?

[Silverthorn 0]

Let me explain about spirit, if a person or a TV show dies, the body is buried. But the spirit of them will live on in our minds, like old Disney cartoons, they may have been canceled, but they will be remembered in our minds, and that's the spirit live in our minds & hearts.

 

What I meant about the spirit is the original Westwood idea retains, think about it, such as Kane's Wrath or even RA3, if current hardcore EA fans live while WW ones (no matter if WW fans just bury WW forever or ideas in EA fans' minds just threw WW away completely) just die :

 

In Kane's Wrath, Steel Talon would NOT have existed in the game. Anton Slavik will NEVER be mentioned.

 

And in Red Alert 3, EA may not bring back the Terror Drone, the Dreadnaught might have given a different name instead & the Apoc tank could have been a lot worse than the concept art's, etc..

 

Or most of all, if the Tiberium FPS would have been alive, their Titan vehicle would not existed and replaced with regular tanks instead.

 

No matter if any of this can happen, I predict it could have gotten a lot worse, that's why the WW spirit must live on in everyone of us (including the devs), no matter if it's already dead or still alive. I hate to say like this, but I tell you, if the WW spirit or its ideas just die, the franchise would not have gone well, no matter if the EA devs are taking the spirit fully or not. But from the way I see the devs, they only possess the spirit at about 40%-60%, NOT 100% like it supposed to be.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Silverthorn

[Malevolence 6]

I want to be blunt for stating this, that you are delusional.

 

There's no such things as WW spirit. Even if there's WW spirit (look at Petroglyph) their new projects aren't that appealing (to me).

 

Currently, so far I can tell, other than the generic whining, C&C is still in good hands. RA3 has been proven (to me) that its pretty good game. EA's working on it, I can see that they are improving every game. Generals was the worst among the C&C franchise when EA first worked on it, then came ZH which was slightly better than Generals. After a few years, C&C3 came and it was so much better then Generals and ZH but flawed in some ways, EALA worked on it and KW was better. Then came a much improved product called RA3 and now UR. From the looks of things generally, I can say EALA is improving on every product.

 

So let's give EALA a chance to dish out another future game.

[Silverthorn 0]

Am I? Sigh, I don't know what to say, I just know that some of us (Maybe myself too) who are already lost. And how can you say no such thing as WW spirit, if there's no such thing as that, KW's may not have Steel Talon & Anton Slavik will never be mentioned in the FMVs.

 

Anyway, it doesn't matter for much, all that whining whether is from me or any other hardcore WW fans, but let's just close this one up. And if the next C&C game is still having some flaws, then don't come to me crying. But that's ok, I may be a partial forgiving person, if EA keeps on making mistakes and all that flaming keeps on coming in, then very well, it's their problem and I can't be involved anyways. Sure, they may have rooms for improvements, but will they use all of them? I wish they should, but I fear they'll only use a few of them.

 

Lastly, Petroglyph is NO Westwood like I see today, I thought it was supposed to be, but from the way I see it, they're just as bad as other lesser competitors and possibly even Atari can buy over them. So far, Petroglyph is Petroglyph, Westwood is another thing. And just as I wonder, where the hell are our original C&C founders have gone for all these years?

Edited May 20, 2009 by Silverthorn

[BioBen 3]

They're off making titles for Xbox and iphone/ipod touch apps as far as i know.

 

http://www.jetsetgames.net/

http://www.jetsetapps.net/

Edited May 20, 2009 by BioBen

[Malevolence 6]

There's never been a perfect product without flaws.

 

Generals high priority complaints:

- Sidebar!!!

- MCV!!!

- Crappy SP!!!

- Crappy music!!!

- No FMVs!!!

 

ZH high priority complaints:

- Sidebar!!!

- MCV!!!

- Crappy SP!!!

- Crappy Music!!!

- Ok that reporter video is a substitute for FMV, but we want actual FMVs!!!

 

C&C3 high priority complaints:

- Sidebar!!! (Ok its back)

- MCV!!! (OK its back)

- Crappy SP!!! (Ok its relatively decent in some ways, but still crappy)

- Crappy music!!! (Sounds better than before, but still crappy and fans want FK)

- No FMVs!!! (FMVs, fine, HD FMVs. But crappy sequences)

 

KW high priority complaints:

- Crappy SP!!! (Ok, its relatively alright, but short)

- Crappy music!!! (Sounds better than before, great remix, but fans want FK)

- No FMVs!!! (FMVs, fine, HD FMVs. Replacing crappy sequences with super cheesy sequences)

 

 

RA3 high priority complaints:

- Crappy SP!!! (Ok its back, cheesy and good, some even complain thats its short)

- Crappy music!!! (OK FK IS BACK AND THE REST IS GOOD SO ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?)

- No FMVs!!! (FMVs, fine, HD FMVs. Replacing crappy sequences with super cheesy sequences) (SUPER DUPER CHEESY HD FMVs + BOOBS AND MORE BOOBS AND CHICKS! )

 

UR high priority complaints:

- Crappy SP!!! (Ok short 3 faction missions, BUT but but... + Yuriko RPG + 50 CC missions, are you happy?)

 

 

As far as I can, its alright though. They are working and countering those high priority complaints, correct me if I'm wrong. The only complaint is the DRM nonsense, but seeing Sim3 is DRM free, its safe to say future C&C products will be DRM free.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Malevolence

[Silverthorn 0]

Don't forget on the outdoor CGIs, my friend :

 

Generals :

NO CGI

 

ZH :

NO CGI

 

C&C 3 :

We got CGI, but it's not enough compare to Tiberian Sun.

And some walking Avatars (Nod mission on Ayers Rock) & flying Vertigos, all placed into the FMVs, nothing special.

 

KW :

NO CGI, did we?

Nope, the Tacitus is the only something fancy. And the MARV rolling in against the Nod patrols? Nice, but rather use it as a pure CGI rather than a support use for the FMV.

 

RA3 :

CGI for HM3 was fine, but most of them are wasted, especially the 1st Allied mission, was used excessively & all wasted just for mere ONE simple mission! A very BAD & WEAK move!

The Allied & Soviet ending ones are meh, but the Empire one, both intro & outro are YOWZA!

 

UR :

Nearly none, the Yuriko one was nice, but still, close to "No CGI".

 

As for that DRM problem, hopefully EA finally admit that they should not apply it. Look what Securom did to Spore, and also crashed the users' computers, etc.. So then, sounds like a game over to DRM?

Edited May 20, 2009 by Silverthorn

[hagren 0]

Let me explain about spirit, if a person or a TV show dies, the body is buried. But the spirit of them will live on in our minds, like old Disney cartoons, they may have been canceled, but they will be remembered in our minds, and that's the spirit live in our minds & hearts.

 

What I meant about the spirit is the original Westwood idea retains, think about it, such as Kane's Wrath or even RA3, if current hardcore EA fans live while WW ones (no matter if WW fans just bury WW forever or ideas in EA fans' minds just threw WW away completely) just die :

 

In Kane's Wrath, Steel Talon would NOT have existed in the game. Anton Slavik will NEVER be mentioned.

 

And in Red Alert 3, EA may not bring back the Terror Drone, the Dreadnaught might have given a different name instead & the Apoc tank could have been a lot worse than the concept art's, etc..

 

Or most of all, if the Tiberium FPS would have been alive, their Titan vehicle would not existed and replaced with regular tanks instead.

 

No matter if any of this can happen, I predict it could have gotten a lot worse, that's why the WW spirit must live on in everyone of us (including the devs), no matter if it's already dead or still alive. I hate to say like this, but I tell you, if the WW spirit or its ideas just die, the franchise would not have gone well, no matter if the EA devs are taking the spirit fully or not. But from the way I see the devs, they only possess the spirit at about 40%-60%, NOT 100% like it supposed to be.

The spirit does undoubtedly remain- There are many concepts, both visually and mechanically, that EA used in making TW, KW and RA3, including some plot points directly taken (but perhaps interpreted differently) which were in the minds of Isgreen and the likes.

 

As for the examples you gave, that's not really about WW's spirits, but EALA's will to listen to the community, which could be very well totally unrelated.

The Titan, dreadnaught and the terror drone had nothing to do with our input btw, they were included before we could give any feedback.

 

Lastly, I ask you again: What makes you think that the spirit is lost? If anything, EALA improves with each game, listens closer and closer to the community. Why would this suddenly deteriorate?

 

And I respectfully disagree about the 100% thing. Would you want to work on any product when you'd have no creative input and had every detail to do exactly as you're told, as it's expected from you, always having the former creator in mind? Think about that. Imho EALA deserves far more respect than they do from some of the hardcore WW-fans, and as that, we should give them some breathing room and rate their games as-is. Not to mention that that they have as much respect for the source material as we do- Flaws or not; remember, WW wasn't perfect either.

 

On a side note, your complaint about outdoor CGI is invalid. I like them as much as you do, but how many CGI movies were in RA2/YR? Yeah.

Edited May 20, 2009 by hagren

[Mighty BOB! 5]

Sorry but it is valid and it is valid about RA2 and YR as well. They should have had more CGI. That was and still is one of my biggest disappointments about them.

 

 

To be honest I'm really not sure what the next game is going to be. Events have aligned so that they could really go in any direction except another RA RTS. It could be C&C4, it could be GenII, or some kind of Arena thing... Oh who knows.. I guess I'll just wait and see instead of speculating.

[Silverthorn 0]

Yeah, I agree that they should add CGI more, not like last time RA3 has wasted all into one place like the 1st Allied mission.

 

Although they did state CGIs are expensive these days, but I fear hardly anyone cares, especially the WW fans. After all, if WW can spend a lot on CGIs in Tiberian Sun, why can't EA?

[Nmenth 291]

Although they did state CGIs are expensive these days

They could always spend their budget on CGI rather than quasi-famous actors that essentially none of us care about.

[Silverthorn 0]

They could always spend their budget on CGI rather than quasi-famous actors that essentially none of us care about.

 

Good point, now I realize those celebrities only make things difficult, they are no bonuses, they're our CGI's huge downfall. All that celebrity hiring is bad, like the previous concept video which shows General Hask & Giles, they're not famous, and to me, it looks more Westwoody or brings back the memory like General Carville. But in the Robert Bingham & Ackerman scenes, that's not Westwoody, that's EA style.

 

Got to be honest, some of the celebrities are not actually needed either, like Josh Holloway & Tricia Helfer. But in RA3, there's too many to mention, President Ackerman can keep it, but NOT David Hasselhoff, hiring him just for the ending scene is already too darn expensive! Especially Tim Curry, already well-known, and definitely will be very expensive for Hollywood to hire him. Or here's another, just enough with those marketing videos by using celebrities, EA is spending too much money just for all of this crap! The only good marketing videos I love is "Ackerman for President", the rest are not.

 

WE NEED MORE OUTDOOR CGI! Put a cork on hiring too many celebrities! Westwood don't do that during their days! And EA should do the same.

[hagren 0]

Sorry but it is valid and it is valid about RA2 and YR as well. They should have had more CGI. That was and still is one of my biggest disappointments about them.

 

 

To be honest I'm really not sure what the next game is going to be. Events have aligned so that they could really go in any direction except another RA RTS. It could be C&C4, it could be GenII, or some kind of Arena thing... Oh who knows.. I guess I'll just wait and see instead of speculating.

Don't misinterpet what I wrote. All my last sentence boiled down to was that EALA is not the only one who cut down on the CGI. That the CnCs lack them since RA2 is out of the question.

 

Nmenth: I recall reading somewhere that hiring those expensive celebrities is actually less cost-intensive than producing more CGI movies. I think Amer said that they're outrageously expensive to make these days.

 

Silverthorn: There was more CGI, actually, not just in the campaign intros. Short clips, yes, but more.

Edited May 21, 2009 by hagren

[Malevolence 6]

They could always spend their budget on CGI rather than quasi-famous actors that essentially none of us care about.

 

Second that, one good suggestion is that they could hire some cheap random folks who could deliver the scene well, and the remaining of the budget the devs can spend on something else.