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1.06c development topic

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H:\project1.06\installer\gamefiles>imagecfg.exe -u "C&C95.exe"

C&C95.exe contains no configuration information

C&C95.exe contains a Subsystem Version of 4.0

C&C95.exe updated with the following configuration information:

    Image can only run in uni-processor mode on multi-processor systems

    Image can only run in uni-processor mode on multi-processor systems

 

 

Booyah. There goes the last requirement for Compatibility mode. B)

 

 

 

On a related note, I totally hacked a <pre> tag into this post in pure html simply by disabling javascript. Gotta love this new forum upgrade.

 

 

...I should try if php code works. :P

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I used a tool (official, from Microsoft) to make sure C&C95 ALWAYS runs on one single core on PCs with multi-core CPUs ;)

And apparently, that was the only real thing C&C95 still needed compatibility mode for anyway.

 

 

(the rest of the post was just me complaining how crappy the new rich text editor for making posts on this forum is)

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What happens if it runs on multiple cores? Works fine for me. And by the way, are you planning on making a quick r3 with this, that one setting moved to Conquer.ini, and the new translations?

 

Unrelated edit: http://cnp.cncnz.com/ and http://cnp.cncnz.com/cnc/ are out of date

Edited by Sonarpulse

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Well there is a confirmed issue with older programs crashing on multi-core PCs. I heard that it's because the cores don't run exactly parallel, and if the application isn't made to specifically distribute its threads over the different cores, you'll get multiple cores handling one thread. If they don't run exactly parallel, that crashes the program. Apparently it depends on the processor type though; not all processors have the problem. And as I said, compatibility mode forces this anyway.

 

And yeah, depending on how things go, there will be a r3 within a month or so. Want to make sure I don't miss anything silly before releasing it.

 

As for Command & Patch, well, I don't have access to the internals of that site. I can't upload stuff on it or fix it.

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  1. Ok, makes sense. Not like multi-core could benefit a binary this old anyways.
  2. Awesome!
  3. Oh well, hopefully someone that does will see this soon. The page from your site is imported so it's not totally out of date.

Edited by Sonarpulse

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P.S. It's totally my birthday today :3

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Happy Birthday, Nyerguds!

Edited by AlexB

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Happy Birthday.

 

Meh... DIsabling all those cores will make the game have a POOR performance on Pentium 4HT, Core2, Celeron HT, I-x Processors with CNC-DDRAW! If there some kind of check if the processors = those?

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Happy Birthday! Ironic that you are giving us presents around this time.

 

I assume whatever imagecfg does is outside the actual machine code, so you use your mad assembly/debugger skills to make it conditional?

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It's an edit of 3 bytes in the actual exe header. The program is initialized with that before any of the actual exe code runs. Besides, I wouldn't know what to use or call to affect that from inside the code anyway.

 

Also, no offense Pichorra, but... get a better PC -_-

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It's an edit of 3 bytes in the actual exe header. The program is initialized with that before any of the actual exe code runs. Besides, I wouldnùt know what to use or call to affect that from inside the code anyway.

 

Also, no offense Pichorra, but... get a better PC -_-

 

Getting a better PC wouldn't help if it still a Intel Core. There is no matter. If i get a Core-i7 3.6Ghz, the problem will still be there. Doing it Nyerguds is NOT a solution, it is simple a beggining of a big mistake.

 

List here everybody that uses an Intel core with Hyper-Treathing. Those i know that uses one:

 

Solo.

Chad

Me

Deepblue

 

It is already 4. how many peaple do still plays Command & Conquer 95? You can relase with this crappy thing, but i will crack it back.

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no no, in my case is a hamster on a wheel, maybe I should call him Core , good idea ...

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...it's not like C&C needs THAT much CPU power, you know :|

 

And doesn't compatibility mode do the same thing anyway?

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...it's not like C&C needs THAT much CPU power, you know :|

 

And doesn't compatibility mode do the same thing anyway?

...it's not like C&C needs THAT much CPU power, you know :|

 

And doesn't compatibility mode do the same thing anyway?

 

Yeah, it is the same thing. And if you enable Compatibility mode + CnC-DDraw, the performance is pretty poor in ALL Hyper-Treathing CPUs. That's why I'm talking to do not do stuff like that.

Edited by pichorra

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On the other hand, there are confirmed crashes due to multicore desynchronization. What do you want me to do, then?

 

[edit]

 

Are you sure it makes any difference? On my 4-core laptop it only uses 25% even without any fix or compat mode, meaning it never runs on multiple cores, even with affinity set to all (I checked) :|

 

Bah, this stuff is bloody confusing -_-

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On the other hand, there are confirmed crashes due to multicore desynchronization. What do you want me to do, then?

 

Well, Multicore desyncronisation is common when the player is not using CnC-DDraw. I never got any freezing with cnc-ddraw related with the Multi-Core thing. Maybe they were using old versions of CnC-DDraw?

 

I can test it in my friend house. He got an Phenon IIX6 and a Nvidia 9800GTX. lets see how it handle multi-cores and cnc-ddraw together.

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All right... so from what I've gathered, this is the info I got:

 

-C&C95 without cnc-ddraw apparently has the desynchronizing cores issue, and will hang. So far, no confirmed reports, because no one plays without cnc-ddraw :P

-C&C95 with cnc-ddraw doesn't seem to have this problem, indicating it might be DirectX-related.

-On my quad core Win7 laptop, the game only runs on one core anyway, even if its affinity is set to all four. It only uses 25% of the CPU.

 

Conclusion: I have lost faith in all of reality.

 

I'll probably just make my ccconfig set compat mode to C&c95.exe when disabling cnc-ddraw. Messy, but it's doable -_-

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Nice. Just make cnc-ddraw enabled by default to avoid issues with Linux Users, and everything will be just fine. :D

 

Should it be splitted off to something like "Hyper-Threading Processors and C&C95"? :P (Just a sugestion)

Edited by pichorra

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Why? This is VERY related to the development of the next version, don't you think?

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Yeah. Well anyway. :P

 

I Just re-installed my computer in my room. No internet there, and i lost my pendrive. :(

 

Anyway, I was just testing with CnC-DDraw + C&C95, and it only uses 1 from the 2 virtual cores, no matter if the affinity is in all of the cpus. The problem is: If i turn on the Windows 98 Compatibilty mode, it makes the game slow with DDraw, and that application ( imagecfg.exe?) do the same thing as the Compatibilty mode (not tested with that, i couldn't send the application to that computer.

 

Conclusion: I also lost faith in all reality. :P

 

I need to test that stuff better, but my computer is wihout Internet. I think i will need to buy a Wireless card for it, or do a Crossing-Over cable to connect with my notebook. Oh god, i hope the moving finish soon.

 

There are nobody with a crap computer with Hyper-Threading stuff to test that? Atoms have it too. If someone tells me that it runs fine on a atom only with cpu0 enabled, then you can use the imagecfg to fix the core issue stuff. AFIK, Myg do have a netbook with an Atom, let's just ask him! :P

 

 

-----

 

imagecfg tool isn't a tool to config the Windows Vista/2008/7/8 disc image? As far i know, it wont run in Windows XP, only in 2003/vista... (Microsoft crappyness. if i make Windows XP drunk i can make it looks like a 5.2 (win2003) and run that :P)

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From memory, CNC-ddraw fixes up the cores too. Perhaps it flips the same switch?

 

I can confirm that, in the previous version of C&C, running it without cnc-ddraw would hang after 1-2 minutes. Now if I run it with cnc-ddraw, it doesn't run at all! Yay!

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Kilkakon: cnc-ddraw has an option to force the game to 1 core though. I want to see the effects without enabling that.

 

Pichorra: did you disable cnc-ddraw's one-core option in the ddraw.ini when testing that, though?

 

Anyway, from what Pichorra says it seems that compatibility mode, and not just "running on one core" is what makes it slow. In that case, I'd think that forcing the 1-core thing in the exe instead of using compat mode seems like the ideal solution... as I said from the start. I think that without any special adaptions, the game runs on one core, but DirectDraw might not.

 

There's only a few one pieces of information I'm still missing now...

 

-Does C&C95 still hang when ran without cnc-ddraw, without compatibility mode, with the 1-core hack in the exe?

-Does C&C95 still go slowly (for Pichorra :P) with cnc-ddraw when ran without compatibility mode, with the 1-core hack in the exe?

-Does C&C95, without the 1-core hack, use only one core when ran with CnC-DDraw without CnC-DDraw's one-core option enabled?

 

Here's an exe you can test that with:

http://nyerguds.arsa..._singlecore.rar

 

btw, Kilkakon: This exe has the new missions menu prefix issue fixed :P

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Let's go for the veredict:

 

-Does C&C95 still hang when ran without cnc-ddraw, without compatibility mode, with the 1-core hack in the exe?

No. It totally fixes it.

 

-Does C&C95 still go slowly (for Pichorra :P) with cnc-ddraw when ran without compatibility mode, with the 1-core hack in the exe?

Yes. The FPS losses is really noticiable. Sometimes, the game simple get slow like if i got the game speed changed.

 

-Does C&C95, without the 1-core hack, use only one core when ran with CnC-DDraw without CnC-DDraw's one-core option enabled

? No. It uses my both cores, running at 70-80%. My performance is really better in this case. And no. I do not have any crashes running it.

 

 

All questions is aswered. Maybe it is better to make an option in your CCConfig tool "Uses one core (fixes random crashes, only enable it if you are getting it!)

 

I've read in somewhere that this tool only really works with Windows 2000 SP4, Windows XP SP2 and Highter (vista, 7 also of course). We will need to make the player sure that he got his windows updated (at least 2ksp4 and XPsp2) unless, that tool is useless.

Edited by pichorra

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