cut/paste and version code

[dvs1 0]

I have a few questions to start the weekend off with.

 

1) Why doesn't cut/paste work?

 

I cut the cmd line for the zone squad upgrades and paste them to LogicCommandSet file for the SCU and they don't work. I copy each of them back to their original building. and they work. Meaning, you can click on them to begin the research process. So now I have working upgrades in the armory and the command post, but the exact same ones don't work in the space command uplink. And I don't know why. I read every related file for the upgrades to see if I missed something, and I can't see any reason why it doesn't work. This is the simplest of the cut/paste problems I have. Which leads me to the second question.

 

At this point, everything I've done has been cut/paste from one file to another. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't.

 

2) How much is too much?

 

I can change 1 thing in 1 file and it works. But for the problems I'm having, some are resolved when I get every - single - file and save them, even if I don't change them. On one hand, I don't want to copy and save every template of everything for everything I want to do and it's hard for me to distinguish how much is enough. The trial by fire results in more game crashes at 99% loading until I get that 1 thing right then move on. Is there a better refined process from the more experienced regarding this?

 

3) At this point, I've used the 1.0 version of KW. Is this problematic?

 

I've compared some of the coding from 1.0 and 1.2 and they're identical. I don't do this every single time though and have wondered if maybe the reason why a couple things don't work is because I'm using the 1.0 coding? Should I be making all of my changes exclusively from 1.2?

 

I try everything I can think of before I post a question. I have tried to resolve these on my own, but I'm still lacking some understanding here.

 

4) What are the advantages of TW vs KW when it comes to mods? Specifically, if anything could be ported to TW from KW, RA3, TT, then what is the advantage of doing a mod within KW?

 

In the future when I want to add different content that isn't a cut/paste from within the existing game, what are the community's thoughts on borrowing from other mods? For example, I saw a Nod unit called a Reaper on moddb for whatever mod it was and when I'm ready to add new content (that I don't create myself) are there shared source files? What is the status quo for stuff like this?

[PurpleGaga27 40]

Cutting and pasting code...... have you tried the free version of Notepad++? Highly recommended notepad for xmls, inis and text files. It's also perfect for editing BAT files.

Edited May 14, 2016 by zocom7

[dvs1 0]

I use Dreamweaver CS5 and Notepad for editing bat files.

[Lauren 78]

What is this topic even about? What are you trying to copy/paste?

[Stygs 25]

I cut the cmd line for the zone squad upgrades and paste them to LogicCommandSet file for the SCU and they don't work. I copy each of them back to their original building. and they work. Meaning, you can click on them to begin the research process. So now I have working upgrades in the armory and the command post, but the exact same ones don't work in the space command uplink. And I don't know why. I read every related file for the upgrades to see if I missed something, and I can't see any reason why it doesn't work. This is the simplest of the cut/paste problems I have. Which leads me to the second question.

 

If the buttons appear but are greyed out, I suggest adding the ProductionUpdate module to the SCU.

 

 

4) What are the advantages of TW vs KW when it comes to mods? Specifically, if anything could be ported to TW from KW, RA3, TT, then what is the advantage of doing a mod within KW?

 

Well, you cant really mod TT for startes (maybe Lauren can ) and RA3 is missing a couple of TW mechanics (squads, tiberium fields).

KW is usually prefered because a) more factions than TW and some additional game mechanics.

Personally, I prefer to mod TW as using inheritFrom and Defines makes it waaaaayyyyyyyy easier to keep track of things.

 

 

In the future when I want to add different content that isn't a cut/paste from within the existing game, what are the community's thoughts on borrowing from other mods? For example, I saw a Nod unit called a Reaper on moddb for whatever mod it was and when I'm ready to add new content (that I don't create myself) are there shared source files? What is the status quo for stuff like this?

 

Taking stuff from other mods WITHOUT the authors consent is generally frowned upon and can get you banned in forums (and probably ModDB).

There are few public addvaible models (frankly, aside from some stuff that was released by me, Madin or zocom7 I cant thing of anything).

However, a lot of models in mods are edits of models from RA3 or TT (the reapers are usually from TT), so you can get the models from this game and edit them to you liking.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Stygs

[dvs1 0]

What is this topic even about? What are you trying to copy/paste?

 

Thank you, Lauren, for asking for more information.

 

Specifically, what I want to do is this. The Zone Troopers and Zone Raiders have 2 identical upgrades: Scanner Packs (Command Post) and Auto Injectors (Armory aka Medical Bay).

 

I cut the Cmd lines from each of the Logic Command Set (LCS) files for those buildings and pasted them to the Space Command Uplink's (SCU) LCS File. I want 1 of each upgrade and to affect both Zone Squads.

 

The end result is that the buttons appear, but they are not available to be clicked on to research. After several tries, I didn't know if there was a file by a different name I was unaware of. So I asked.

 

Further information: I want anything related to hi-tech or Zone/Zocom related to be a research upgrade from the SCU. I've managed to successfully do this cut/paste to transfer code from one thing to another without further modification. However, in this instance when it did not work, I read through all the xml for the Armory and the Zone squad's upgrades to see if there was something I had missed. I couldn't see it. I made sure to remove the Game Dependency attributes prior to testing. This is a part of my attempt to solidify all unique factions of GDI into 1 faction with specifics rearranged. For example: adding the Titan, Wolverine, Zocom Shattered, and Zone Raiders to production cues. I added the Adaptive Armor to the Tech Center, moved all other techs to different structures, and included the Predator in the upgrade effect. However, at the moment, I've only been able to add the effect without the fx. I get either a pink skinned Predator, or an invisible Predator if I do. I'm still toying with it. I try for the simple solutions first. Also, I renamed the Adaptive Armor to the Faraday Effect and set the negative effects back to 100%, so that the only thing the Predator, Titan, and Mammoth Tank receive when its activated is EMP immunity.

 

I'm trying to do things with the least amount of effort possible first. I'm sure you're familiar with the acronym KISS.

 

Well, you cant really mod TT for startes (maybe Lauren can ) and RA3 is missing a couple of TW mechanics (squads, tiberium fields).

KW is usually prefered because a) more factions than TW and some additional game mechanics.

Personally, I prefer to mod TW as using inheritFrom and Defines makes it waaaaayyyyyyyy easier to keep track of things.

 

Thanks, Stygs. That was my suspicion. I was considering converting from KW to TW to help speed up the process but I don't know if I want to deal with converting everything I've done by now.

 

 

If the buttons appear but are greyed out, I suggest adding the ProductionUpdate module to the SCU.

 

I'll let you know how that works, because if it does it'll fix 6 other like-kind problems.

 

 

Taking stuff from other mods WITHOUT the authors consent is generally frowned upon and can get you banned in forums (and probably ModDB).

 

There are few public addvaible models (frankly, aside from some stuff that was released by me, Madin or zocom7 I cant thing of anything).

However, a lot of models in mods are edits of models from RA3 or TT (the reapers are usually from TT), so you can get the models from this game and edit them to you liking.

 

Generally speaking, plagiarism as a whole is frowned upon by people with ethical standards and I know how sensitive some people are to their efforts into something being 'borrowed' without even so much as a thank you.

[Ravendark 46]

Adaptive armor is a different model/mesh, this mesh has a whole different (animated)shader. You can enable the adaptive armor on any other unit stats wise, but for the visible effect the unit model needs to have that mesh/object in its w3x file. In other words for units that don't come with the extra model you would need to create one in 3ds max for it. The same way certain stealth units how that pulsing stealth effect, its a special model created for that purpose.

 

TW has a OFFICIAL SDK which to a large extends holds your hand by giving art examples, coding examples and documentation. KW is a COMMUNITY SDK which for the most part assumes you are familiar with the basics and gives a few examples and documentation aimed towards explaining what changed from TW > KW modding. It doesn't hold your hand nor is intended to be a beginning to end tutorialised process. If you want to learn/start to understand how modding the TW/KW sage engine works start with TW and its SDK. Not enough? You want more...you want to hit that Super Sayan 3 level of modding....you gotta dig deep and go back and compare it with Generals and Battle for middle Earth.

 

Also KW offers very little more compared to TW from a modding standpoint..a few minor bug fixes, some extra code that you can get around with creative thinking, the only thing extra might be the global domination mode inherent to KW. Other then that...i can't think of anything. Honestly if i really wanted to change from TW to something "better" i would recommend starting to mod RA3 for the optimizations and clean up/changes to the xml based coding in the SAGE2 engine where RA3 runs off.

[Ravendark 46]

1) Why doesn't cut/paste work?

I does, if you understand what you are copy/pasting and from where. Understand the difference between units and structures for example, between a tech, power or production building. As Styggs explained production buildings have the production update module which tells the engine it can build/queue things. Upgrades are a queue type thing, they are build, not spawned like a SP or something else. So upgrades need a productionupdate module present in the unit or structure. Some abilities are dependent on the unit KINDOF....hardcoded into the engine it allows that unit or structure to execute a module. For example the commando has the C4 KINDOF..this enables it to get a special explosive cursor over buildings and trigger the satchelcharge specialpower with it. Without that C4 kindof you never will get that special cursor it uses.

 

 

2) How much is too much?

When you know nothing Jon Snow, even the tiniest bit is to much. But if you understand what you are doing the sky is the limit..more or less. Errors happen because "beginners" change to many things to fast, and as said above copy things without understanding what they copy, what that module needs to work or how it works. Hence starting at the TW SDK is often easier/better then starting blind at the KW SDK.

 

 

3) At this point, I've used the 1.0 version of KW. Is this problematic?

No because you basicly build upon the foundation of what you have aviable. For you that won't be an issue. The problem may come when you share your mod with people who have the 1.2 version. Also to be able to use your mods in KW worlbuilder you need to update your KW to 1.2 iirc...else WB will crash. you also need the latest WB version for that iirc. So depending on what you want to do with KW and modding you might need to update to 1.2.

 

 

4) What are the advantages of TW vs KW when it comes to mods? Specifically, if anything could be ported to TW from KW, RA3, TT, then what is the advantage of doing a mod within KW?

 

Already gave my opinion on that above. But technicaly speaking....the biggest hassle between using TW and KW assets are changes in shaders and Kw has some extra changed xml coding. Going from TW to KW is probably easer then going back when it comes to xml and art assets.

 

 

On a side note: We have a expression over here that says: buying things second hand often means buying the owners problems as well. So using open source models and coding etc is good and well, you are also getting the issues that come with implementing those. If you don't know how to use those assets you are in a world of hurt. Some of those assets are really good others are literary the junk the original owner throw away, they are missing parts of code and more. If you want a good example on the amount of suffering it can take to implement a welfare model like that...have a look at Egozzi's post on this forum concerning that Mastodont monstrosity of his...I was expecting him to hang himself at one point during the process. I wouldn't recommend using anything you don't understand yourself.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Ravendark

[dvs1 0]

Thanks, Ravendark, for pointing out the KINDOF attribute and conditions. In cut/paste, I can transfer units, buildings, and even support/special powers with relative ease. When I moved the Adaptive Armor from the Steel Talons to the GDI Tech Center, getting it to click for research was simply removing the dependency. That's why I was so confused when I moved the Zone Trooper upgrades from the Cmd Post and the Med Bay to the SCU, that they didn't work. I have the same problem with the Surveyor not going to the War Factory, which I didn't have time to deal with--yet.

 

I was hoping to not have to mess with the Predator model beyond what I already did. I had already added the info to w3x for the shader. It shows in 3DS but not in game. It has its own set of files too.

 

I have KW 1.2, but I'm just using the 1.0 files because I don't like most of the changes ie: I copied the refinery from 1.0 because the 3k cost & 30 secs really bites. 2k/20 was fine.

 

What I did yesterday was I got the SRF from the SCU because the SCU and Power Plant (PP) have the same footprint. I rotated it in 3DS, made sure it really did fit the PP, but when I tried to export the heirarchy info, 3DS crashes. I want the PP to have a SRF just like all the rest of the buildings. I also want to make the SRF a research tech eventually and I know I have to convert it to fit that. Either GDI or NOD will have it as a research tech, but it will happen for at least one of them if not both. In the mean time, the Tech Center has the SRF SP.

 

Kudos on the GOT reference. I'll work on 1 thing, make a change, test it, fix if needed, repeat.

 

I'm doing the mod because my son and I can play together. He's 10. A couple years ago, we played WarCraft 3 together during summer break. But he learned and memorized all the cheat codes. I want him to learn strategy, development, and similar things. It's ok to lose. How to get better. Study what your opponent did and how to defeat him. You know, some Sun Tzu stuff. After 2 years of me teaching him, he's a descent chess player too. I encourage him to play CnC/RA because there are no cheat options and the story line is good. Doing the mod was my idea. With summer break coming, I wanted to have at least 1 faction partially finished so we could play with it and talk about future changes for the other factions. That's why I'm doing the cut/paste stuff first as much as possible. Whatever is easy, get it done then work on the harder stuff later.

 

I don't plan on releasing the mod file anytime soon, if ever. If I do, it'll go to select people for review. I keep writing down ideas I have and reading what other mods are like to see if they've already been done. I'll eventually get around to playing them.

 

I do have another question... I found the supersonic jet and fuel depot files. I was looking for Dr. Giraud's lab to be my Adv Research Center, only I haven't a clue what it's called. i was looking for the Ironside too that's grounded in the same mission. http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Ironside_experimental_troop_transport

 

Any ideas?

[dvs1 0]

 

you can see the fx on it

[Ravendark 46]

I am thinking the ironside model can be found in the wbdata.big as its map related, i do not have a clue what it is called tho.

 

the gdi surveyor has

 

ProductionQueueType="OTHER_STRUCTURE"

 

which tells it to be build from the other_structure aka support tab. change that to

 

ProductionQueueType="VEHICLE"

 

and it will be build from the vehicle tab...ofc you need to add its logiccommand to the warfactory commandset aswell.

 

 

I was hoping to not have to mess with the Predator model beyond what I already did. I had already added the info to w3x for the shader. It shows in 3DS but not in game. It has its own set of files too.

Kind of depends on what you did. Might help explaining what you did step by step. Could be you forgot something or another. Did you reference the w3x file in your static.xml either directly or through another xml?

[dvs1 0]

dur... I guess "vehicle" isn't the same as "vehicel" ... the typo got me.

 

I'll have to get back to you for the detailed explanation of the predator. I've done way too much to know exactly what I did, undid, and didn't do.

[dvs1 0]

hey, I won't be around this weekend. I wasn't really asked if I wanted to work, I was more or less volun-told. But I didn't forget about this. I will get back to you asap.

[dvs1 0]

Ok, let me tell you a brief story about this Predator tank ...

 

I decided that I wanted to add the Adaptive Armor effect to it. I went to the code for the Titan and the Mammoth tank. I compared the info in the GameObject files to find all of the coding for the effect. I determined which code would work, copied them and inserted into the Predator file. Compiled, tested, works.

 

Now comes the visual effect. This is where things get weird on me.

 

I extracted and opened up each of the w3x files to read the xml coding. I did the same thing where I compared the files, looking for the code and determined which one would work for the Predator. I copied a complete set of the Predator w3x files, renamed them to ADAR (AdaptiveArmor just like the Titan and Mammoth files), added the code, checked checked and rechecked everything, wrote out the w3x.xml file, added it, compiled, tested, crash.

 

I looked at it 3DS, as shown above, but I overlooked something--probably simple--which is just enough to make the game crash.

 

I removed the reference to the w3x file, compiled, tested, and everything works. So I must have screwed up somewhere in the w3x file.

 

I could attach the files if any were interested.

 

 

And the Asset Extractor no longer works. I get an error "$$00000000 is an invalid integer". The application starts, can open a manifest file, but thats it. No extractions and no visible textures possible. I did a download direct from bibber.eu to a second computer that is also running windows 7 and I got the same error. I went to my old XP, downloaded again and got the same error. It's shut down, at the worst possible time, the next stage.

[Stygs 25]

Try opening your w3x with the w3x viewer (part of the TW mod SDK). If it works there, it should work with the game itself.

If it crashs, then there is probably something wrong with your model

 

Usually its the W3DContainer part at the end - every mesh in the model should be mentioned there.

 

 

However, attaching the file here might be the best way to help you.

[dvs1 0]

that's all my w3x, xml, and dds files if you'd like to take a crack at it. I took one more look and I wonder if it would be better to treat the predator tank like it is an import and include every model, etc? That's the one option I have not tried.

 

PredatorTank.zip