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General Leang

Religious answer to terrorist problem

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I thought I would ask the religious experts here this question. How do we answer the challenge of Muslim terrorists bullying the world into becoming militant Islamists?

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Leang, I don't know if its a good idea asking the religious experts opinion. It will become the quickest flaming war in CNCNZ history.

 

My opinion is that, what we're likely to see in here, a religious argument, is what would happen if we asked the religious leaders to tell the terrorists to stop.

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Hey, let's not underestimate ourselves Mr_Lee_! :wink:

 

I think that hatred is deeply rooted in much of the Islamic culture, and, unfortunately, the only way to deal with the fanatic terrorists is with a bullet. There are two fronts to the militant Islamic movement... the cultural/social, which is already bearing much fruit in Europe and beginning to show in the US, and the militant, which is causing mayhem all over the world. It's a frightening thing to say the least, and to answer the question of how we deal with it, I think the only way is to spread the ideals of the west like we're doing in Afghanistan and Iraq. When they see the benefits of capitalism and religious freedom, hopefully we can "convert" them, if you will.

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Convert them to what, Mr BWare? If your promoting religious freedom why would conversion be worth it?

 

Islam is just another faith, like Christianity. There is no hatred rooted into it, it is a philosophy on how to live your life. A few poor souls get misled by extremists and end up being brainwashed into fighting for "allah." Only a minority end up in this trap, and unbelievably small minority. The millions who follow Islam and live normal lives are not full of hatred. I don't believe its a good idea to get prejudice confused with the truth.

 

Leang, the challenge is a difficult one, very difficult. There are always going to be extremists. Personally I don't think that centralising power in hands of the few, bringing in new "security" laws and starting wars is going to fix the problem. War only kills people, death only brings out peoples emotions, emotions can then misled people and we have more terrorists. Sadly i have nothing else to recommend, its maybe a threat we could easily live with or we could go out and remove resigms, but who decides what resigm is good and bad? That is elitism and that leads to fascism.

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I agree with Hybrid on this one... Islam is a faith, nothing more. It's another way to explain the same mysteries that Christianity explains. Most religions teach peace and understanding but a handful take it too far. And like Hybrid said, it's a small minority.

 

And what about fundamentalists in other religions? Are they not as dangerous? They produce the same kind of hate that Islamic militants do. So should we start poppin a cap in their asses or what?

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I would strongly disagree with the idea that all religions are essentially equal... last time I checked, Islam is the only religion behind every recent terrorist attack, and in fact pretty much every major conflict going on in the world right now. Remember the recent attack on the school in Russia where all those kids were slaughtered? I don't even have to mention all the recent suicide bombings or even 9/11, do I? Name one thing comparable that has been done in the name of any other religion within the last century! It's foolish to deny that militant Islam is on the move, and despite the many people who legitimately practice Islam, there is still that looming threat.

 

And Hybrid... I meant "convert" them to not killing people and flying planes into buildings :roll:

I'm sure that even you admit that those animals need to be "converted."

 

And what about fundamentalists in other religions? Are they not as dangerous? They produce the same kind of hate that Islamic militants do. So should we start poppin a cap in their asses or what?

Once again, I don't see the Christian fundies out blowing up groups of civillians, shooting up schools, raping 12 year olds, cutting the heads off of the "infidels," or flying planes into buildings. They're just good for laughing at most of the time... So no, fundamentalists of other religions are not NEARLY as dangerous as the militant Muslims. Geez, get with it!

 

 

Oh, and recently there's this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/1...nce.riots.reut/

Unbelievable... you'd think the spineless appeasers would be their best friends :roll:

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Fundamentalism is on the move. Islam doesn't cause harm to anyone, fundamentalists do. Is that so hard to understand? You sound like one of those Christian assholes who actually believes their religion is right and is the only one worth believing. Now that may not be true but you tend to exude that sort of vibe...

 

So spreading hate isn't dangerous? It has the same potential since all it takes is a big spark to ignite a wildfire of destruction. You may not want to believe but until you take off your Christian/Republican goggles, you'll never see the truth.

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Now why would believing that Christianity is correct (making the others incorrect- that's just logic) make me an "asshole?" That seems pretty harsh.

 

So that there's no mistake about it, yes, I am a Christian who believes that the one way to heaven is through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and that alone... not being a "good person," not through doing anything, but through Jesus. Naturally I can't believe that other religions that deny this are correct... that would be insane.

 

And I have no "Christian/Republican goggles..." I'm actually annoyed with the Republican party, and am an independant thinker. It's very insulting that you assume that I simply lump my thoughts with a majority based on a name.

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Closemindedness would definitely make you an asshole. Hey, that's what's great about being an atheist: every religion sucks.

 

But how very Republican of you, dodge the entire point of my post. I see how it is. No response so you just throw in some bull**** for good measure. Nice job dude. :roll:

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Dude, seriously... don't be an idiot. HOW DIDN'T I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION?? What was "republican" of me?? Geez... and the "closed-minded" nonsense is starting to really piss me off. Just because I have an opinion, I'm considered "closed-minded" by the likes of you?? Real brilliant. My reply made perfect sense, and still you decide to attack me. Nice moderating :roll:

 

There's no need to be hostile here.

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Fen is totally right. Fundamentalism and extremism is the problem behind religion.

 

I'm sure that even you admit that those animals need to be "converted."
I wouldn't admit anything. These animals cannot the converted, thats why they are fundamentalists.

 

Once again, I don't see the Christian fundies out blowing up groups of civillians,
I guess burning people at the stake wasn't enough for you. Maybe the IRA also are totally unrelated considering the constant attacks they do in Ireland and Britain?

 

shooting up schools,
Chechnians, not Muslims. And that was absolutely terrible. It made me feel sick to the bone.

 

raping 12 year olds,
What was it, 1 in 12 priests is a paedophile?

 

So no, fundamentalists of other religions are not NEARLY as dangerous as the militant Muslims.
Of course not, thats why they are called "fundamentalists" for nothing.

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Dude, seriously... don't be an idiot.

How am I the idiot? I'm not the one claiming that I have the greatest religion of all.

 

HOW DIDN'T I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION??

You missed the point entirely and only hit the spot that "attacked" you. My point was that hate spread by extremism is the source. I also wanted to your opinions on whether spreading hate was or wasn't dangerous.

 

What was "republican" of me??

Dodging the point of my post is pretty Republican.

 

Geez... and the "closed-minded" nonsense is starting to really piss me off. Just because I have an opinion, I'm considered "closed-minded" by the likes of you??

It's not your opinion, it's your lack of ability to accept anyone else's opinion. You brush off differing opinions like they mean nothing, as is the case with your long argument with Hybrid. I don't agree either but at least I have the decency to accept his point of view.

 

Real brilliant. My reply made perfect sense, and still you decide to attack me.

How did it make sense? You selected a piece of my post and replied to that, completely ignoring everything else. That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

Nice moderating :roll:

I see no moderating going on. :roll:

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Fenring, this is uncharacteristically childish of you. When did I ever say that I had the "greatest religion of all?" You're going to trash me for thinking I'm right? What the hell? I believe in something, and suddenly that's a federal offense? Man... what is your problem? Why are you being such a jackass?

 

And yes, I got your point about extremism, and frankly I didn't think it needed addressing. I got it, but I don't think you got mine. Muslim extremism is a real and present danger, but you just want to dwell on the vague concept of "extremism" alone :roll:

 

Anyway, as a moderator, I assumed that you would be above this kind of trashing, but I guess the standards aren't that high here :roll:

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Here we go again. It went right over you head. If you want to call this "childish" or brand me as a "jackass", go right ahead. And since you're going to, I know I've struck a raw nerve with you, which is what I do to everyone.

 

You're going to trash me for thinking I'm right? What the hell? I believe in something, and suddenly that's a federal offense?

Again, you miss my entire point. Did you forget to read the part where it's not your opinion so much as it is your disregard for anyone else's?

 

And yes, I got your point about extremism, and frankly I didn't think it needed addressing. I got it, but I don't think you got mine. Muslim extremism is a real and present danger, but you just want to dwell on the vague concept of "extremism" alone

A simple "good point" would have sufficed to say the least.

 

Anyway, I never said Muslim extremism wasn't a problem. It IS a problem but you can't go blaming a religion for the actions of a handful of people with rage issues. It's just like I can't say Christians are intolerant of anyone with a different opinion because of a handful of smacktards.

 

Extremism is everywhere, and that's my point. All extremists have a habit of causing harm to others... be them Islamic or Christian.

 

Anyway, as a moderator, I assumed that you would be above this kind of trashing, but I guess the standards aren't that high here

Oh, now you're going to insult the other members of the staff because I'm the only one actually challenging you. If you feel that way, please, by all means, get the **** out. Otherwise, suck it up and deal with it.

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BWare, Muslim extremism is just as dangerous as any other form of extremism, its all about control through exploiting fear. In my eyes the real threat is the lies being made out of islamic extremism and twisting it for their own purpose to cease control. The real danger is whats going on it our own countries rather than religious ideologies.

 

The muslim extremism is just a distraction. Maybe you should look up all the church coverups of christian priest paedophiles in the US or even the UK. There is quite a few of them. That is also extremism. However, again it is the MINORITY doing it.

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hmm...kinda funny...but MOST (not all) people belvie that their religion is better or somewhat better then the others.....just like with football teams...its all about opinions...and BWare never said that his religion was better, or was almighty..he simply said he cant belive other religions tht deny jesus are right...thats his opinion, doesnt make him retarded, or idiotic in anyway......i to am atheist, but also am open minded enuf to know that people have their opinions about what they belive in, and nothing about that makes them stupid...its called being human

 

but i to agree that you cannot base a group of insane f*cks' actions on a whole religion......islam isnt the problem....the crazy folk who belive they are doing whats right by killing innocent ppl are the problem

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Exactly, it is those who believe their ticket to heaven is to hijack planes and fly them into buildings, or detonate car bombs at night clubs and restraunts, or place bombs on trains and buses that are the problem, and over the past four years the overriding majority of those at fault have either been Muslims who have perverted Islam to justify their murders or supporters of these terrorist cells. Of course that means that Muslims and Islamists get the short end of the stick because of these lunatics. Muslim leaders, clerics, those who follow Islam as a peaceful religion have time and time again had to defend themselves and justify that proper Islam does not support terrorist acts. I am a Christian, and believe that the way to heaven is through Jesus and by being as good a person as you can be. After all God would not want someone who was a **** throughout their life with him, would he? But I do not have a problem with Islam, Buddism, Hindou, Jewish, whichever religion you wish to believe in and practice. I do have a problem, as do many others, with those who seek to harm others and try and justify it on their religion. I have a problem with Christians calling for the death of homosexuals, justifying one sin because of another they see in their eyes. I condemn catholic priests who molest children. So yes these peoblems must be solved somehow. The problem with Islamist fanantics, and how to deal with the pressure they put on the world to convert to militant Islam, must somehow be solved as well.

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Exactly, it is those who believe their ticket to heaven is to hijack planes and fly them into buildings, or detonate car bombs at night clubs and restraunts, or place bombs on trains and buses that are the problem, and over the past four years the overriding majority of those at fault have either been Muslims who have perverted Islam to justify their murders or supporters of these terrorist cells. Of course that means that Muslims and Islamists get the short end of the stick because of these lunatics. Muslim leaders, clerics, those who follow Islam as a peaceful religion have time and time again had to defend themselves and justify that proper Islam does not support terrorist acts. I am a Christian, and believe that the way to heaven is through Jesus and by being as good a person as you can be. After all God would not want someone who was a s*** throughout their life with him, would he? But I do not have a problem with Islam, Buddism, Hindou, Jewish, whichever religion you wish to believe in and practice. I do have a problem, as do many others, with those who seek to harm others and try and justify it on their religion. I have a problem with Christians calling for the death of homosexuals, justifying one sin because of another they see in their eyes. I condemn catholic priests who molest children. So yes these peoblems must be solved somehow. The problem with Islamist fanantics, and how to deal with the pressure they put on the world to convert to militant Islam, must somehow be solved as well.

 

100% agreed

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hmm...kinda funny...but MOST (not all) people belvie that their religion is better or somewhat better then the others.....just like with football teams...its all about opinions...
Agreed. I've said before too, opinion is the biggest divider of mankind. It has caused more deaths than any war ever.

 

BWare never said that his religion was better, or was almighty..he simply said he cant belive other religions tht deny jesus are right...thats his opinion, doesnt make him retarded, or idiotic in anyway......
True, however islam doesn't deny Jesus, jesus was a prophet in islam and he said exactly the same as what he did in christianity. All religions are the same worshipping the same God just different objectives. Christianity believes in Love, Islam in Modesty and Buddhism in serenity. Everyone has the right to believe what they wish. That is the free will we were born with and given to when we entered this life. It's ok to believe anything you wish as long as you do not harm or take anyone elses free will. Hence why even the 10 commandments were written in a structure based on free will.

 

After all God would not want someone who was a s*** throughout their life with him
Again thats down to a matter of opinion. Hell could simply be ignorance and the destruction of the human soul through greed, ego and other utterances. Everyone who seperates themself from God can easily find god again. Thats the point of forgiveness in christianity. You are the judge of yourself.

 

The problem with Islamist fanantics, and how to deal with the pressure they put on the world to convert to militant Islam, must somehow be solved as well.
100% agreed, however there are other problems that must be sorted within mankind before we could even focus on the injustice and destruction these people cause. Mainly greed and the poverty coming from that is a problem man must be able to solve, with solving our own ignorance we can easily see better more wise ways to give solutions to problems amongst our societies.

 

I'm sure if mankind put every single one of their problems in a pile and shared them out equally to the 6billion alive today, everyone would take their share of problems, leave and be happy with them. Moral is, we need to work together. We know the problems, why let opinion divide us?

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Ah... a little bit of sanity... very refreshing :roll:

 

And for the love of... comparing the pedophile crap goin on in the Catholic church to Islamic terrorism? You have to be kidding me! They aren't even close to being comparable! How is molesting children- something condemned by EVERY Christian- "Christian extremism?" That is just incredibly foolish.

 

Thank you Publix and Leang for allowing me to believe something exclusively, like every sane individual on earth does. Fenring, Hybrid... you're not going to get very far in life if you don't recognize that some people out there actually have belief systems. :roll: Assuming people are "bigots" or "closed-minded" because they actually believe something is just idiotic thinking. Frankly I have a real problem with people who lack the backbone to actually believe something exclusively. Not everyone on earth can be rigth you know, despite your utopian hopes of a beautiful future where we can all just hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya. :roll:

 

But hey, let's take this relativitist idea and run with it... since it's okay for pretty much anyone to believe anything (we have to be respectful after all), I suppose that Hitler was alright in murdering millions. Stalin was also just following his beliefs, and so were the slave owners and traders in years past. Who are we to tell them that they're wrong? Let's not condemn Naziism just because of a few who took it too far! :roll:

 

 

Here we go again. It went right over you head. If you want to call this "childish" or brand me as a "jackass", go right ahead. And since you're going to, I know I've struck a raw nerve with you, which is what I do to everyone.

I'm pretty sure that you began by calling me an "asshole." (Man I hate having to use that word :roll:)

And yes, calling someone an "asshole" for believing in Christianity will strike a raw nerve in pretty much anyone... so maybe the problem is on your end.

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I give up. I never get through to morons like you, BWare. I said it 9000 times already. It's not your beliefs AT ALL but you disregard FOR ANY OTHER BELIEF that disagrees with your own! How many times do I have to say that before you understand what I mean!

 

Frankly I have a real problem with people who lack the backbone to actually believe something exclusively.

I don't have a "backbone" because I like to be open-minded? Well what the hell kind of twisted logic is that? You need to flip that around there buddy. You even said it yourself, not everyone on Earth can be right. The people who are wrong might include you, we don't know but it's obvious you failed to consider that possibility. And spare me the lecture about your religion.

 

Now I'm going to be you for a while and ignore other things that "don't make sense."

 

EDIT: If you don't cut the ****, I'll be forced to lock this too.

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Fenring... nice.

 

I really don't think you understand my point of view here... at all. I am absolutely open minded, but when I clearly see that something is wrong, I'm not afraid to say so. If I'm disproven or shown something that changes my mind, I have no problem changing my opinion and admitting that I was wrong earlier. That's how learning works... but when you do believe something, you can't ALSO believe something else that contradicts it! I accept other points of view, but if I don't agree, I won't act like I do! How does this make me a "moron?" :?

Forgive me if I have no idea where you're coming from here.

 

And what have I done that's so offensive here?? Why are you threatening locking? You call me an "asshole" for being a Christian, and then you threaten locking the topic if I don't "cut the s***."

 

Now what "s***" do I need to cut??

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And you people told me this wouldn't become a flaming war... :roll:

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And for the love of... comparing the pedophile crap goin on in the Catholic church to Islamic terrorism? You have to be kidding me! They aren't even close to being comparable! How is molesting children- something condemned by EVERY Christian- "Christian extremism?" That is just incredibly foolish.
Exploiting of a position for your own gains using religion. Thats extremism is it not? The church have also attempted to constantly cover up these cases. I was just highlighting that its not only islam that has problems.

 

Fenring, Hybrid... you're not going to get very far in life if you don't recognize that some people out there actually have belief systems. :roll:
"Far in life"? What ever do you mean? Since when as opinion stopped people moving forward? Seriously, you critise us because you like to have a view you are "sane" but to me your just misled, like so many people. Amazing the antichrist prophecy is slowly moving forward and its most likely intentional. Maybe life as we know it could be coming to an end. Your country is on the brink of civil war, we are on the verge of economic collapse, my country is about to go through the harshest winter known to us for years, and that will cause many problems for the food industry and the economy. There is alot going on. Getting "far in life" isn't my main focus. Ego only destroys personality as it drives people to unbelievable lengths believing there are gains in an illusional society.

 

Assuming people are "bigots" or "closed-minded" because they actually believe something is just idiotic thinking.
Belief is close mindedness, believing in anything closes your mind to other possibilies or openings. I'd rather have an open mind by wonder than a closed one by belief.

 

Frankly I have a real problem with people who lack the backbone to actually believe something exclusively. Not everyone on earth can be rigth you know, despite your utopian hopes of a beautiful future where we can all just hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya. :roll:
The real problem is ignorance. Human ignorance is the cause of all suffering world wide. We would rather accept materialistic items than see the truth.

 

But hey, let's take this relativitist idea and run with it... since it's okay for pretty much anyone to believe anything (we have to be respectful after all), I suppose that Hitler was alright in murdering millions.[ Stalin was also just following his beliefs, and so were the slave owners and traders in years past.
Opinion causes more death than any war, how is that difficult to see, you just summed it up. We have free will, free will is what gave us the ability to believe we can undermine nature and rule ourselves, if we lived by our truths rather than our gains we would see far more clearly.

 

Who are we to tell them that they're wrong? Let's not condemn Naziism just because of a few who took it too far! :roll:
Morals are a human concept which comes from their hearts. They help us live life without committing atrocities due to gains. The sense of gain and loss through ignorance is where the problem lies my friend. As i said before, its ok for people to believe as long as they do not harm anyone elses free will.

 

EDIT: If you don't cut the s***, I'll be forced to lock this too.
I think your ridiculous sometimes fenny. Seriously, locking topics because someones opinion doesn't met yours, what a joke :P

 

And you people told me this wouldn't become a flaming war...
It only becomes what people make of it. Its not a flaming war, but if people act upon their emotion than their gifted intellect, then it will soon become one, which is rather pathetic and pointless. Why argue, cry and stamp your foot over politics, philosophy and economics.

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Thats extremism is it not? The church have also attempted to constantly cover up these cases. I was just highlighting that its not only islam that has problems.

Okay' date=' I see where you're coming from, but I think you missed the point. I completely agree that the church has its problems, as does every institution and in fact every person. But even the Catholic priests will admit that what they do is wrong and against their beliefs, where Islamic terrorists do it as a result of their fanatical beliefs. In their minds, the evil priests screw up, but the evil terrorists believe to their core that they are doing right. THERE lies the danger of extremism.

So no, pedophilia is not at all a result of Catholic extremism.

 

"Far in life"? What ever do you mean? Since when as opinion stopped people moving forward? Seriously, you critise us because you like to have a view you are "sane" but to me your just misled, like so many people. Amazing the antichrist prophecy is slowly moving forward and its most likely intentional. Maybe life as we know it could be coming to an end. Your country is on the brink of civil war, we are on the verge of economic collapse, my country is about to go through the harshest winter known to us for years, and that will cause many problems for the food industry and the economy. There is alot going on. Getting "far in life" isn't my main focus. Ego only destroys personality as it drives people to unbelievable lengths believing there are gains in an illusional society.

Hybrid, take this with a grain of salt... I'm just saying that in life, you are going to have major problems if you can't open your own mind to people like me, who believe very deeply in their faith. That's all.

 

Belief is close mindedness' date=' believing in anything closes your mind to other possibilies or openings. I'd rather have an open mind by wonder than a closed one by belief.[/quote']

Again, this is all just a semantics game. I am open to things that contradict my beliefs, but so far am unconvinced. Don't assume that beliefs necessariy interfere with clear thinking. You arrive at beliefs as a result of clear thinking. They are the end result!

 

 

Frankly I have a real problem with people who lack the backbone to actually believe something exclusively. Not everyone on earth can be rigth you know' date=' despite your utopian hopes of a beautiful future where we can all just hold hands and sing Kum Ba Ya. :roll:[/quote']The real problem is ignorance. Human ignorance is the cause of all suffering world wide. We would rather accept materialistic items than see the truth.

Agreed.

 

Opinion causes more death than any war' date=' how is that difficult to see, you just summed it up. We have free will, free will is what gave us the ability to believe we can undermine nature and rule ourselves, if we lived by our truths rather than our gains we would see far more clearly.[/quote']

Here is the problem- the whole "our truths" relativity nonsense. Hitler, Stalin, and all the other evil people in history were living by "their truths," and that was the problem! Man's nature is evil. It is my belief that the absolute moral code is written on our hearts, and is in fact universal. Finding that and living that is the real way to go... not finding "your truth." The answer is not inside yourself.

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