9/11 what really happend

[TheBlackOut 7]

In those videos, do they ever mention why Osama and those terrorist groups claimed responciblity? :?

[RKCoon 0]

Many would say that "Not allowing the truth out" is, by defualt, an admission of guilt. Tahts my vote as well.

[General Leang 0]

In those videos, do they ever mention why Osama and those terrorist groups claimed responciblity? :?

 

I believe the reason for claiming responsibility is known. I remember hearing that when Osama Bin Laden rallied the Muslim world against the West he cited the presence of American soldiers on soverign land as cause for Jihad. Of course, the fact that in many cases they were allowed there and were working agasinst those you would refer to as 'the opposition' (terrorists of course, but mulishas, rogue states, drug dealers, criminals, ect) does not seem to matter much.

[RKCoon 0]

I think its VERY important to keep in mind here, that one man/country's "terrorist" is another man/country's "freedom fighter/liberator/resistance/hero/etc". We in the western world forget that, to many peoples ideologies, these characters are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and wont beleive "western infidels" or many other names. makes it a royal b!tch to fight, dont it?

 

Ahh the joys of religion, religious and political indoctoring and so on. Not that such makes it right to us -- only to them.

 

but then, does that mean, that we have the right to wipe them out because they refuse to yeild or even accept our train of thought, just as we dont accept... well, rephrase, that we wont accept or yield to the more violent forms of thier beleifs?

 

Makes for touchy philosophy dont it? l

[General Leang 0]

I think its VERY important to keep in mind here, that one man/country's "terrorist" is another man/country's "freedom fighter/liberator/resistance/hero/etc". We in the western world forget that, to many peoples ideologies, these characters are the greatest thing since sliced bread, and wont beleive "western infidels" or many other names. makes it a royal b!tch to fight, dont it?

 

Yes, and true, there may be those who do see terrorists as freedom fighters, but in the case of Al Qaeda and in the case of Muslim terrorists I do not believe they really fight for anyone. Why? You might not have seen this when I posted it before, but it may prove beneficial.

 

America, allies with America, with Iraq, against terrorism, western countries, Al Qaeda want you dead because they hate the west. We saw that with September 11, with Bali since Jimaar Islamiah is an ally of Al Qaeda, Spain, London, Indonesia again. Christians, they want you dead because you do not follow Islam, we saw that with the terrorist attacks I just mentioned. Israel, they want you dead because you are an example of the west working, they are meant to be a supporter of terrorist attacks against Israel and have said of their condemnation of Israel. Jews, Al Qaeda want you dead for the same reason they want Christians dead, when you look at Palestine you see Al Qaeda celebrating every Jew killed. Eastern countries, they want you dead because you are not Muslim, we saw that with Bali and you could make a case with Eqypt, Iraq and Saudi Arabia. Muslims, Al Qaeda want you dead because you are not militant enough, we saw this with the above attacks and when one of the London bombings as specifically targeted in a Muslim suberb.

 

Basically they claim to be fighting for the East, for the Muslim people, but as we see with several of these attacks they were directed at Muslims. Maybe countries such as Saudi Arabia are not militant enough. Also, seeing as how Islam full stop promotes the subjugation of women and forcing others to their ways, it is somewhat hard to swallow what freedoms people such as Al Qaeda would be fighting for. At least the majority of the world allows people to choose their own religion, sexual morals, ect. Since pure Islam does not I really cannot see a terrorist's perverted portrayal of the religion to be any better.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Good writings Leang. Heres another one to think about.

 

They claim Jihad, and things such as "Israel must be wiped off the map. Every Jew must die" and other such things like "The West is twisted and evil. We must stop them by eradicating their stench from our lands and those of our ancestors."

 

Yet Islam itself is generally a very peaceful religion, as are most.

 

Heres what the West tends to say in response, "Freeing those who are under the rule of tyrants. Allowing htem to choose their own leaders and religion. Killing those who resist, yes. Women, children , medical workers, and civilians are not the main target here. It is the militant leadership and their troops and fanatical bombers that we are after. It is the tyrannical dictators that we seek to over throw." ect ect

 

Osama and Friends say things like they are trying ot free the world and gain freedom for all. What about those who dont want to be muslim? They die, according to fanaticals. Some freedom.

 

Medical workers aiding non-Islams?! Kill them all! We have seen this numerous times.

 

Spare civilians. They say they do, yet roadside, suicide, and bombings in general happen in civial areas. Many mroe civilians are killed by intention than military personel. I persoanlly dont see how they are "setting the world free of Western oppression". Considering those who want to be like the west do their best to emulate us, and those who dont, well they do their best to not emulate us.

 

"Oh, but thier view of justice is different than ours!" some of you may be thinking. That may be so. But heres the key: We (as Europe, the US, and any other nation that doesnt suicide bomb or go Soviet on anyone) allow people under our governments to choose what religion they want to be. We let them choose which party they want to be part of, or none at all. We let them choose whether to vote or peacefully protest.

 

Islamic fanatics dont. If you dont follow them, you are as good as dead in their eyes. Thats the key difference. Choice. Freewill.

[Guest MadBadger]

hhrmmm.... more song Lyrics i belive

 

Meh, alot aint necessary but hell i like the song important bits are in bold

 

 

[Talking]

Immortal Technique

Revolutionary Volume 2

Yeah, broadcasting live from Harlem, New York

Let the truth be known..

 

[Verse 1]

You better watch what the **** flies outta ya mouth

Or I'ma hijack a plane and fly it into your house

Burn your apartment with your family tied to the couch

And slit your throat, so when you scream, only blood comes out

I doubt that there could ever be...a more wicked MC

'Cuz AIDs infested child molesters aren't sicker than me

I see the world for what it is, beyond the white and the black

The way the government downplays historical facts

'Cuz the United States sponsored the rise of the 3rd Reich

Just like the CIA trained terrorists to the fight

Build bombs and sneak box cutters onto a flight

When I was a child, the Devil himself bought me a mic

But I refused the offer, 'cuz God sent me to strike

With skills unused like fallopian tubes on a dyke

My words'll expose George Bush and Bin Laden

As two separate parts of the same seven headed dragon

And you can't fathom the truth, so you don't hear me

You think illuminati's just a ****in conspiracy theory?

That's why Conservative racists are all runnin' ****

And your phone is tapped by the Federal Government

So I'm jammin' frequencies in ya brain when you speak to me

Technique will rip a rapper to pieces indecently

Pack weapons illegally, because I'm never hesitant

Sniper scoping a commission controllin the president

 

[Hook]

Father, forgive them, for they don't know right from wrong

The truth will set you free, written down in this song

And the song has the Cause of Death written in code

The Word of God brought to life, that'll save ya soul..

 

Save ya soul mother****er...save ya soul..

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah

 

[Verse 2]

I hacked the Pentagon for self-incriminating evidence

Of Republican manufactured white powder pestilence

Marines Corps. flat flak vest, with the guns and ammo

Spittin' bars like a demon stuck inside a piano

Turn a Sambo into a soldier with just one line

Now here's the truth about the system that'll **** up your mind

They gave Al Queda 6 billion dollars in 1989 to 1992

And now the last chapters of Revelations are coming true

And I know a lot of people find it hard to swallow this

Because subliminal bigotry makes you hate my politics

But you act like America wouldn't destroy two buildings

In a country that was sponsoring bombs dropped on our children

I was watching the Towers, and though I wasn't the closest

I saw them crumble to the Earth like they was full of explosives

And they thought nobody noticed the news report that they did

About the bombs planted on the George Washington bridge

Four Non-Arabs arrested during the emergency

And then it disappeared from the news permanently

They dubbed a tape of Osama, and they said it was proof

"Jealous of our freedom," I can't believe you bought that excuse

Rockin a mother****ing flag don't make you a hero

Word to Ground Zero

The Devil crept into Heaven, God overslept on the 7th

The New World Order was born on September 11

 

[Hook]

 

[Verse 3]

And just so Conservatives don't take it to heart

I don't think Bush did it, 'cuz he isn't that smart

He's just a stupid puppet taking orders on his cell phone

From the same people that sabotaged Senator Wellstone

The military industry got it poppin' and lockin'

Looking for a way to justify the Wolfowitz Doctrine

And as a matter of fact, Rumsfeld, now that I think back

Without 9/11, you couldn't have a war in Iraq

Or a Defense budget of world conquest proportions

Kill freedom of speech and revoke the right to abortions

Tax cut extortion, a blessing to the wealthy and wicked

But you still have to answer to the Armageddon you scripted

And Dick Cheney, you ****in leech, tell them your plans

About building your pipelines through Afghanistan

And how Israeli troops trained the Taliban in Pakistan

You might have some house niggaz fooled, but I understand

Colonialism is sponsored by corporations

That's why Halliburton gets paid to rebuild nations

Tell me the truth, I don't scare into paralysis

I know the CIA saw Bin Laden on dialysis

In '98 when he was Top Ten for the FBI

Government ties is really why the Government lies

Read it yourself instead of asking the Government why

'Cuz then the Cause of Death will cause the propaganda to die..

 

[Man talking]

He is scheduled for 60 Minutes next. He is going on

French, Italian, Japanese television. People

everywhere are starting to listen to him. It's embarassing

 

Immortal Technique - Cause of death

 

 

Another Immortal Technique track but it explains the 'insurgents'

 

 

[Mos Def - talking]

Man, you hear this bull**** they be talkin'

Every day, man

It's like these mother****ers is just like professional liars

YouknowwhatI'msayin? It's wild

Listen

 

[Hook - Mos Def]

Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects

It was you, nigga

Tell the truth, nigga

(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]

Tell the truth, nigga

(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]

Tell the truth, nigga

 

Bin Laden didn't blow up the projects

It was you, nigga

Tell the truth, nigga

(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]

Tell the truth, nigga

(Bush knocked down the towers)--[Jadakiss]

 

[Verse 1 - Immortal Technique]

I pledge no allegiance, nigga **** the president's speeches

I'm baptized by America and covered in leeches

The dirty water that bleaches your soul and your facial features

Drownin' you in propaganda that they spit through the speakers

And if you speak about the evil that the government does

The Patriot Act'll track you to the type of your blood

They try to frame you, and say you was tryna sell drugs

And throw a federal indictment on niggaz to show you love

This **** is run by fake Christians, fake politicians

Look at they mansions, then look at the conditions you live in

All they talk about is terrorism on television

They tell you to listen, but they don't really tell you they mission

They funded Al-Qaeda, and now they blame the Muslim religion

Even though Bin Laden, was a CIA tactician

They gave him billions of dollars, and they funded his purpose

Fahrenheit 9/11, that's just scratchin' the surface

 

[Hook]

 

[Verse 2 - Immortal Technique]

They say the rebels in Iraq still fight for Saddam

But that's bull****, I'll show you why it's totally wrong

Cuz if another country invaded the hood tonight

It'd be warfare through Harlem, and Washington Heights

I wouldn't be fightin' for Bush or White America's dream

I'd be fightin' for my people's survival and self-esteem

I wouldn't fight for racist churches from the south, my nigga

I'd be fightin' to keep the occupation out, my nigga

You ever clock someone who talk ****, or look at you wrong?

Imagine if they shot at you, and was rapin' your moms

And of course Saddam Hussein had chemical weapons

We sold him that ****, after Ronald Reagan's election

Mercenary contractors fightin' a new era

Corporate military bankin' off the war on terror

They controllin' the ghetto, with the failed attack

Tryna distract the fact that they engineerin' the crack

So I'm strapped like Lee Malvo holdin' a sniper rifle

These bullets'll touch your kids, and I don't mean like Michael

Your body be sent to the morgue, stripped down and recycled

I fire on house niggaz that support you and like you

Cuz innocent people get murdered in the struggle daily

And poor people never get **** and struggle daily

This ain't no alien conspiracy theory, this **** is real

Written on the dollar underneath the Masonic seal

 

(I don't rap for dead presidents

I'd rather see the president dead

It's never been said but I set precedents)--[Eminem]

 

[Hook]

 

(Shady Records was 80 seconds away from the towers

Some cowards ****ed with the wrong building, they meant to hit ours)-- [Eminem]

 

Immortal Technique - Bin Laden

 

 

 

Both these tracks and several more on his album 'Revolutionary Volume 2' all show 9/11 onwards, from 'Fahrenheit 9/11' and the 'vidieos' viewpoint. I gota admit i do listen to Immortal Technique and a lot of what is said i can belive.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

I cant tell whats bold and whats not. Guess its not important then :wink:

 

Neither side is telling the whole truth. Long gone are the days of "straight" warfare. They bombed our harbor, now we will bomb them and invade their island holdings ect ect.

[RKCoon 0]

Good writings Leang. Heres another one to think about.

 

They claim Jihad, and things such as "Israel must be wiped off the map. Every Jew must die" and other such things like "The West is twisted and evil. We must stop them by eradicating their stench from our lands and those of our ancestors."

 

Yet Islam itself is generally a very peaceful religion, as are most.

 

Heres what the West tends to say in response, "Freeing those who are under the rule of tyrants. Allowing htem to choose their own leaders and religion. Killing those who resist, yes. Women, children , medical workers, and civilians are not the main target here. It is the militant leadership and their troops and fanatical bombers that we are after. It is the tyrannical dictators that we seek to over throw." ect ect

 

Osama and Friends say things like they are trying ot free the world and gain freedom for all. What about those who dont want to be muslim? They die, according to fanaticals. Some freedom.

 

Medical workers aiding non-Islams?! Kill them all! We have seen this numerous times.

 

Spare civilians. They say they do, yet roadside, suicide, and bombings in general happen in civial areas. Many mroe civilians are killed by intention than military personel. I persoanlly dont see how they are "setting the world free of Western oppression". Considering those who want to be like the west do their best to emulate us, and those who dont, well they do their best to not emulate us.

 

"Oh, but thier view of justice is different than ours!" some of you may be thinking. That may be so. But heres the key: We (as Europe, the US, and any other nation that doesnt suicide bomb or go Soviet on anyone) allow people under our governments to choose what religion they want to be. We let them choose which party they want to be part of, or none at all. We let them choose whether to vote or peacefully protest.

 

Islamic fanatics dont. If you dont follow them, you are as good as dead in their eyes. Thats the key difference. Choice. Freewill.

 

These are all very good points -- but it still comes back to this -- to kill in the heat of a battle is one thing, to defend yourself, but does that mean that, because of these idealogical diffferences that we have to actively go out and kill them, "before they kill us"? i dont see that as making us much different from them -- and in fact falling to the ultimate terrorism that they are doing.

 

Id have to say, theres gotta be a better way than that. if we go out and kill them because they are trying to do the same, there is little difference in the parties and thier actions then. That being said, i see no reason to hold back at all when they DO take such agressive, nonkosher actions against our people. but i wouldnt pussyfoot either -- they bomb a train, we bomg a mosk of thiers. they bomb a city, we level thiers.with this, i would venture to say that, while cruel and cold, we have to be at least ten times more vicious in responce, if they are gonna be like this, otherwise, since envoys of peace are usually shot, a peaceful solution wont work.

[General Leang 0]

I maintain that Iraq was a mistake. It distracted from the war on terror, going after Bin Laden. For all the good that has come from ousting Saddam from power a lot of bad has come out as well. The next logican step after Afghanistan, in my opinion, would be if you had lost Bin Laden and could not find him in Pakistan or any such country, well first of all sack those looking for him and hire better people, then go after Jimaar Islamiah. They were the ones who were responsible for the next big terrorist attack in Bali. By harming the people they target they also harm the Indonesian people, the Muslims, those who practice Islam, everybody, which is probably one of their aims in any case. Portray Islam as terrorism and create anarchy. They are a legitimate people they claim, what a bunch of BS. JI, Amrozi who sought to upset the families of victims as much as he possibly could, Abu Bakr Bashier, all of them, hunt down all of the members of this terror group, as that is what it is, and lock them up. Shut down the mosques where Islamic hatred is preached and eradicate the weeds that are choking the country and the world. Indonesia, Islam, the Muslim world, they do not deserve such filth muddying their name. And if that upsets those who side with people such as JI, tough luck. If you support them, you should be thrown in jail with the rest of them.

[RKCoon 0]

Personally, i dont think theyll ever get bin laden --- for if they did theyd have MUCH less cause to "have a war on terror". I would see, however, if someone other than general bushel gets into the white house, they may find him in short order.

[General Leang 0]

I remember comparisons to Bush and Palpatine from Star Wars, one of them was to create this 'phantom menace', Bin Laden and terrorism. Even if Bush himself is not after him, and I genuinely believe that he is, there are too many people from the military and investigation angencies to mercenaries (yes, mercenaries. Immediately after September 11 it was suggested that they are hired to go after the Taliban leader) who would not be playing this game. Besides which, most of the Taliban and Al Qaeda has been found. K.S. Mohammed, the leader of Al Qaeda I believe (he looks like a comic book villian, wears an eyepatch and wields a grenade launcher), so a serious effort is being made to bring down terrorism.

 

I just thought of something. All this criticism of Bush, all the conspiracy theories of 9/11, Iraq, ect, is all this born from the invasion of Iraq, or were there doubts before the war was proposed? I would think most people are just using it as an excuse to attack Bush, but I would like to hear what people have to say on the matter.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Judging from the "debates" at school, its just being used to attack Bush. Anit republicans are POed that both Gore (the VP to the GREATEST pres ever!! :roll: ) and Kerry (we tried....) both lost to Bush, even with recount scandals.

 

All of this "The War is destroying our lives and our economies!" I say, if you dont like it, then go over there and fix it yourself! People are so quick to critize Bush and everything he does, instead of realizing that the US people elected him, and hes here for the durration of his term, since he wont be getting fing blowjobs under the desk, there wont be any threat of impeachment. Since he wont be handing out nuclear weapons to Communist nations (all in the name of the spread of technology).....give me a break. I think the reasons stated for Iraq are BS (MWDs ect) They should have jsut said 'Look at what he has done, we told him to disarm 12 years ago, and he's still ignoring the UN." So we went in and did what had to be done. I personally do not see what is wrong with that. We get rid of a tryannical dictator, gain a new Ally in the mid East (any sanity in that region is greatly appreciated) and take away another possible terrosit refuge.

 

Yet people say the Bush is evil for doing that. :roll:

 

Next thing you know, the president will be evil for flying on tuesdays instead of wednesdays. people come up with hte stupidest things just to get attention. Heres the worst part. OTHER PEOPLE LISTEN AND BELIEVE IN THE BULLCOW!!!!!

 

Yes, Im very P.Oed at Liberals and Conspiracists. They refuse to see the US as a united country, and instead see it as rival political camps. They refuse to look at the bigger picture.

[RKCoon 0]

Personally, my doubts started the same day as 911. i have a HELL of a time beleiving that a country with the amount of resourses that the us has gettin suckerpunched -- without first turing a blind eye to whats going on, especially with the mad crews they themselves trained.

 

As a side note -- with a current US administration, and in paticular, president approval rating at 36% and DROPPING, i would hardly call the US "Unified with its leader". to be blunt, if this was goin on say 60 years ago, the guy woulda been booted on his ass out of the white house, if not SHOT. Far as i give a damn, the only reason hes still IN power is his money. No more no less. if he was joe blow from idaho hed never of gotten in, nor of stayed in.

[General Leang 0]

Personally, my doubts started the same day as 911. i have a HELL of a time beleiving that a country with the amount of resourses that the us has gettin suckerpunched -- without first turing a blind eye to whats going on, especially with the mad crews they themselves trained.

 

No? I hate to say this, but September 11 was waiting to happen. Security at airports was a joke. I bet you were not suspecious of Muslims the way you are now. Even after the terrorist attacks it was easy to slip a knife past security, I know for a fact. Thankfully such measures have been taken to ensure that such slip ups do not occur. But to say that it cannot or should not happen is to not have a grasp on history. The story of Moses leading the slaves out of Egypt and the Pharoh and his empire being destroyed. Or what about the trojan horse? You would think that the first attack on the Trade Centre, Oklaholma, the USS Cole, ect would have been prevented. There were still school shootings after Columbine, after Paducha. Even the inept French managed to sink the Rainbow Warrior (apoligies to the French, but they were caught in the act). These things happen. That is not to demean the tragedies of these acts in any way but the best do get sucker punched. You only have to remember when Windows was hacked for proof.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

RKoon--we did not train the hijakers. Mind you, the people we trained and armed were trained and armed to resist Soviet invasion and occupation, not the commit suicide terrorist attacks against Wester nations. Opperating a Boeing 737 and an AK-47 are two entirely different things. How DARE you say we trained those agents. Coming from the land of the mounties, you dont have much to brag about.....

[RKCoon 0]

RKCoon--we did not train the hijakers. Mind you, the people we trained and armed were trained and armed to resist Soviet invasion and occupation, not the commit suicide terrorist attacks against Wester nations. Opperating a Boeing 737 and an AK-47 are two entirely different things. How DARE you say we trained those agents. Coming from the land of the mounties, you dont have much to brag about.....

 

Oh? you mean the police force that, even while theyve declined somewhat from the days of old, are still better trained, easyer to deal with, and in fact, VASTLY more respected thruout the world than virtually any other policing force? Pfffff. Given a choice id take RCMP over any force , ANY day. (BTW as a side note, the RCMP are still technicly a "paramilitary" orginization, which, i would think, gives them something of an edge over other policing forces.)

 

Now, as far as teaching the wackjobs responsible for 911 -- did it ever occur to you that , bein able to speak english, learning to use various technologies, as well as personal combat and infiltration techniques DID in fact come from the CIA? they were being taught, and this has been proven btw, to go up against the OTHER most powerful force on the planet. it takes little to adjust such training to include the actions undertaken to orchestrate 911,so your point, or rather , emotional complaint, just became mute. Im not saying they were the ONLY ones responcible -- but they WERE a big part of the problem. They knew damned well then, but didnt advertise the fact, that even after the Communist threat was lifted, these people would have a SERIOUS b!tch with the western world, and they went and did it anyway. You think they got that **** and knowledge on thier own? not likely.

 

 

Oh and General Leang -- I agree with you, up to a point. the attacks were long in coming, but more due to the fact of what the US is and has been doing. However, i still firmly belive that a great deal of "blind eye turning" was involved for this to happen, as has been demonstrated in the past. the whole concept of "Oh well we are the most powerful nation on earth so naturally people are gonna wanna knock us down" does not float terribly well. it takes a LOT more than dedicated people. it takes money, knowledge, intelligence, a substantial backing force and manipulation of local media. i can easily see where SOME of this comes from, but not all. and even back then, the success rate for preventing such large scale attacks was pretty respectable.

[Alphabear 11]

The probems that the US has with the middle east and terrorist organisations arnt a result of America training and suppling the organisations or millitary operations such as the Iraq war. It is what America does as the same time thats the problem. The primary cause for the Taliban and Al qaeda's resentment of the US is that they wernt looking for an ally in america just help freeing their country. The US was trying to use its initial relations with the taliban to attempt to Westernise them somewhat by exporting american culture to them and continue to use them to help the american government after the soviets had left.

 

Also according to a poll in egypt at the very start of the iraq war most egyptians thought that the war would be a good thing that would help out the people of Iraq and help stabalise the Middle East. There were similar beleifs in many other Middle eastern countries. However after the war had been going on for a while public opinion of the US in Egypt was at an all time low. America may have gained an ally in the new iraqi government but it has lost almost all public support that it did have in the middle east at the start of the war.

 

All these things that people now critisise America for were carried out with good intentions, but just like all powers througout history, they try to help out the world without stoping and looking at the way they are doing it. An example of this is 'white man's burden' if anyone has heard it.

[General Leang 0]

I get what you two are saying. I read about it with the French, how they have a resentment of America. For those who do live in America, when was the last time you went to your local pub and had Dom Perington, La Cantina and a side of crucciants? Yet everywhere in France from la Budweiser beer to le Big Mac to le Levis jeans, their country is becoming Americanised. The same as how Israel is vastly diffirent to the way it was twenty years ago and had become American, the same as how Japan is turning more American than some are comfortable with. One of the major issues the militant Islamic world has is that we are not eating kababs where we cannot tell if the meat is cat or rat, yet we are happily living through America.

[Guest MadBadger]

hehe Cygs had to take Bwares place

 

 

And Cyg your trying to tell me that the CIA didnt train the terrorists? what bull is that? the CIA helped set up the 'terror' camps in Afganistan and provided billions of dollars of aid and help. The CIA has a record of training small resistance groups then abandoning them when the previrbial hits the fan.

 

Only problem is that this time the CIA resistance group gained control of the country and then turned THEIR backs on the USA.

 

The CIA trained them for terrorist missions..... i mean come on they were Vs the Red Army ffs, they would need to be able to perform suicide missions against Rusian targets and the CIA taught them how to teach others to perform these attacks.

 

 

-ive also highlighted the lyrics in red now -

[RKCoon 0]

Yep thats EXACTLY what i was saying -- nice to see im not the only one here that knows that.

[General Leang 0]

The CIA trained the Taliban in order to fight against the Soviets who invaded Afghanistan? We know that, it was hardly a revelation in 2001.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Yes, I did pull a BWare. We may have trained them to take on the Reds, but certainly not with hte intention of them using that against us. I know none of you mean to say this, but I hear all too often (from American citizens, no less) that the CIA trained them specifically to attack us. I apoologize for my over reaction.

 

Now, back to business

 

Oh and General Leang -- I agree with you, up to a point. the attacks were long in coming, but more due to the fact of what the US is and has been doing. However, i still firmly belive that a great deal of "blind eye turning" was involved for this to happen, as has been demonstrated in the past. the whole concept of "Oh well we are the most powerful nation on earth so naturally people are gonna wanna knock us down" does not float terribly well. it takes a LOT more than dedicated people. it takes money, knowledge, intelligence, a substantial backing force and manipulation of local media. i can easily see where SOME of this comes from, but not all. and even back then, the success rate for preventing such large scale attacks was pretty respectable.

 

I am in total agreement here.

 

As for countries becoming too American

 

This is the result of capitalism, when companies have huge profits and want to expand, they need new markets, so they expand. Heres the biggest catch, the only reason McDonalds and such are still in Israel, France, and whereever else is because they areturning huge profits there. And its not all from American tourists.

 

We were waay too complacent. Now we are up to our necks in "The Patriot Act". Which I have no problem with, but lots of people seem to think they are being voilated. Heres the reasoning behind the defense of the Patriot Act. If you arent doing something wrong, then what have you to fear? ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING! Makes me think that all the people who b!tch about it have something to hide. And the whole thing is waay over blown. You're not going to get arrested just for mentioning "bomb" , "terrorist", and "Jaques Chirac" all in one conversation. Now if every day you are plotting to kill the president, and the 3rd time your phone is randomly tapped they keep hearing the same thing, then yes, you are in for a surprise.

 

As for the Bush/Palpatine comparison---dont go there. Thats giving Bushel waaaayy to much credit. Or rather, its doing Palpatine a disservice. Bush is doing a fine job, granted it could be better (I dare you to name a president that has done a "perfect" job) but its not bad. At least we've quit giving Nukes to Communists and there isnt anythign going on "under the desk" :roll:

[TheBlackOut 7]

I agree, Bush isn't the greatest, but come on other countries. Look at the options we had!

 

Kerry = ..... NO

 

Nadar = :lol:

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Isnt it spelled Nader..... :roll: :wink:

 

Al Gore. No THERES a presidential candidate. I invented the internet....

 

We havent had a good candidate for the office since....um.....Rosevelt. And he married his cousin so.....yeah. Woot.