This Is A Warning!

[Julbri 0]

People should get to choose what they do with their life, their sexual orientaion and who they marry included. And its wrong for this to be dictated, either by government or religion. But isn't this over steping the mark a little? breeding sex cells from stem cells is fine in theroy and would be handy if fertility becomes an issue but for some reason it just doesn't seem right to me, nature is what it is, why do we alterate. its worked well for us so far

 

[Mina Synd 0]

why not right? sure, it's a new scientific ideal... but all it is doing is making some gay or lesbian couples happy, because they have a child that is actually their child. sure, it goes against the standard nature of how things work, but let's face it in nature stranger things have happened. so long as everything is perfected with as little as life cost as possible, then what down side is there?

 

think about it. so long as the science is working well enough to be able to get rid of all errors, all you are doing is making people happy. i know a lot of gay and lesbian couples are happy to invite a third person of the opposite gender to help in the creation of a baby at current, but if they had the choice between bringing in someone else and having a baby of their own, what do you think they would choose?

 

we don't HAVE to differ from the norm but in this case it's a positive idea. it's making life better for those people who can't have what you have. personally, i look forward to this science becoming a fully used practice and chances are if it becomes a reality soon i may end up using it myself sometime along the line.

[Julbri 0]

Right now i think its something thats to alien for me to except. sure ill probably think its a great idea in the future but at the moment not so much

 

I think it has the potential to make a lot of people happy but it isn't a reality yet and will always seem a foreign / alien way to have a child

[Mina Synd 0]

accept* and yes, it's not a reality yet... but it will only stay as an alien way to people who really disagree with it for whatever daft reason. generally those who have some sort of religious issue with it. but what can you say... usually people who are that "devout" in their thinking are stuck in the dark years mentally and won't accept anything that their little holy books don't agree with.

 

i'm not saying all these religious people are that bad, only the people who would generally be described by others of their own faith as "extreme", be they muslims that are looking for an excuse to kill or blow up someone, or a christian that would put up patriotic flags and incite others into a mob to hurt foreigners. it's all the same pot at the end of the day. everyone should be entitled to their own beliefs, but what right do any of us have to force our beliefs and religious laws on others? what right do those beliefs have to turn religious law into country law?

 

let's face it. 50 years from now, everyone else may have accepted it and it may be common use, yet the religious extremists will still have issues with it and in heavily religious areas both the parents and children who partake in this new birthing method will probably be heavily bullied. go figure. all i can say is don't become like these "devout" types... at the end of the day they are no better then nazis. well they are trying to force their ideals on others and would happily do it violently.

 

once again, i am talking about RELIGIOUS EXTREMISTS (not the average believer. and this applies to pretty much every religion. although extreme buddhists tend to devote themselves completely to peace... and will FIGHT TO GET IT! D:< xD and pastafarian extremists generally tend to be hackers and/or trolls...)

[Alphabear 11]

I have no problem with it from a religious point of view, my problem with it is from an evolutionary point of view.

[Mina Synd 0]

well evolutionary changes would take place over an extremely long time. and when we DO see changes, they are marked out as freaks... and in theory the evolution should still be able to take place... these children are being created from the genes and DNA of their parents, just same sex parents. so they should still have all the same details as their parents, and the same ability to evolve.

 

for all we know, creating babies from same-sex parents may bring out previously overlooked genes. these children may end up being more intelligent or unlocking more brain potential and becoming psychic. then again they may end up receiving backward genes... we just don't know yet. but chances are it won't be a problem. so long as the babies are being created from seperate people evolution is always possible...

 

the only time proper evolution wouldn't occur would be if the parents of the baby were brother and sister or something. in that situation the baby would just not have any new DNA, however because it would most likely be created in a laboratory they'd be able to weed out any genetic issues normally created by inbreeding XD

 

but if you're going down that route you might as well go the whole way and just use only yourself as the parent but that would just be cloning x3 which IS morally and ethically debatable o.o; apart from the obvious problems of possible bad people being cloned or brought back to life, there is the debate of how would a clone cope with being a clone?

 

though this is a seperate topic altogether. to cut it short, i really don't think there would be too much of an issue with evolution and babies created with same-sex parents... only time it would be an issue would be if there was a key gene that say, gave you an extra eye or hyper intelligence and it only occured in say, females... and by some strange co-incidence every baby born suddenly had this gene except for the male-male couple babies... i mean let's face it, evolution takes SO long to happen and become wide-spread that this same-sex method of birthing just wouldn't cause an issue...

[Alphabear 11]

Thats not true it actually takes very few generations for significant observably changes to occur in a species.

 

But the point i was getting at is sexual dimorphism is on of the key things that helps to increase species survivability and genetic fitness. When we start artifically creating babies from two parents of the same sex, we start losing out on one of the most important aspects of mammal evolution. While I am all for the development of technology to be able to do this, turning it into a widely used consumer product is another matter.

 

 

[Nmenth 291]

bad people being cloned or brought back to life

That is only a problem in science fiction.

 

 

how would a clone cope with being a clone?

Probably not much different than a same-sex baby.

[Mina Synd 0]

well either way, you agree that we should have and perfect the technology yes? even if we don't give it to the masses, it's a good backup to have should something occur to humanity which makes us unable to produce normally.

 

could range from anything between mass erectile dysfunction to a disease that kills all the women in the world. either way, whatever happens it would be good to have some kind of fallback should something happen...

 

also i'm thinking that if they did do this and allow people to test it, they'd probably realise after the first generation if there was something in the genes that they had missed out. then they either create that gene synthetically... or at least take the gene from a third person and insert it until they CAN create it synthetically (hey, a baby made almost totally from both the original partners is better then only one right?) because i doubt the government would go ahead and allow the babies to go ahead with them missing something and the scientists knowing about it...

 

i can understand the process continuning if it was nothing noticable and no-one knew, but if they know they would most likely go ahead and fix the darn thing before it becomes a large scandal (unless it works out cheaper to try and cover it up... XD)

 

so unless there was something definately left out and no-one tried to replace it, i don't think there is any reason why they shouldn't let people do it o.o

[Alphabear 11]

You cant artificially control and steer the course of natural evolution in a situation like this. Anyway most of the things you have mentioned are not possible now or in the emerging future and will probably be far to complex for a long time.

 

And when I say I support research into this kind of technology I don't mean specifically to be able to create artificial children, but the benefits this line of research can provide for other uses and to further scientific knowledge.

 

And I would much prefer to be a clone (assuming cloning has actually been perfected not just how it is now) than to be a same sex child as essentially it would be the same as being a mono-zygotic twin and have potentially better genetic fitness than a same sex artificial child.

[Mina Synd 0]

mmhmm. technically artificial advancement is a natural stage in evolution. because at some point in time every advanced species becomes too intelligent and their bodies have altered in some way to the point where it's either 1) not practical to mate 2) not POSSIBLE to mate any longer 3) has become frowned upon in society as the "golden age" has thrown away with carnal pleasures...

 

all of those results are possible. things like artificial birthing and cloning are simply the next step to progress further inbetween being an advanced but "doomed" species and evolving onto a higher level...

 

aaaaand you are completely wrong. the way the science in the same sex children is being researched, it would be the same as a normal child. if it were missing any necessary genes from the missing gender, they could be added in at any point along the growth of the foetus/baby...

 

whereas cloning. the first batch of clones would be alright... but if those clones had clone children... and they cloned... eventually they would die off. simple fact is when you clone something you lose some of the original material. it simply becomes damaged... same principle with photocopying. you copy something repeatedly over again and again, copying the printout each time... eventually there will be MAJOR faults in the picture.

 

this wouldn't happen with same sex parenting... because you ARE getting new DNA, from two seperate people... and (if the scientists have any sense at all...) they would be adding in any missing DNA strands. but with cloning you have the same DNA getting re-written again and again. it just damages it... and although you can replace the damaged DNA with fresh DNA, you would have to do that with every single damaged strand (which would pretty much be all of them...) so the whole system is just defunct if you're planning on using cloning to continue the populous...

 

simply put it is a lot easier to add a couple of missing genes which the uninvolved gender may have given (which would probably be done in the first place when creating the egg implantation...) then it is to completely replace every DNA strand every generation of clones...

 

not to mention that it would be far easier for the child to cope with having same sex parents then being an identical copy of one person. especially if there are multiples of you. the clone soldiers in star wars had intense psychological training in every aspect so they were (mainly) able to cope with this. but a normal child? kids at the MOMENT get emo and suicidal because they aren't popular or the cute girl ignored them at school... how do you think these next generation children will cope with the fact that they simply AREN'T special in any way, shape or form and they can never truely be unique because they are always living in someone else's shadow?

 

at least identical twins have the advantage of being a freak natural "slip up" as it were, and they (as proven in various scientific studies) do have some kind of mental connection together... clones simply wouldn't have any of that. maybe the first set born... but if it becomes commonplace...

[sith_wampa 6]

I'm assuming that if this does work with two females that there cannot be a male offspring, right?

[Alphabear 11]

Correct

[Luk3us 63]

Well society won't last long in that case.

[Julbri 0]

I'm assuming that if this does work with two females that there cannot be a male offspring, right?

 

wow level one biology has its first use to me!!

they wouldn't be able to make a male child with to female parents (XX+XX) and two males(XY+XY) would have a 25% chance of having a daughter(XX), 50% chance of having a son (XY) and 25% chance of having a fail, don't know what else to call it, (YY), and I'm geussing that a fail (i don't know if its possible even though you can be XXXY i think) would ether be deformed or would not live

 

Natural Born child would have a 50% chance of being male or female.

[Alphabear 11]

Having just two y chromosomes wouldn't work as much of the required 'information' is only found on the x chromosome.

[Julbri 0]

thought it wouldn't work (hence the name fail)

 

[Mina Synd 0]

...yah, this is why they PUT THE REQUIRED INFORMATION INTO THE CELLS WHEN CREATING IT x-x

 

it's possible that just taking the DNA from a partner's bones or whatever might work and might only allow them to create the same gender, but think about it. we can already do test tube babies. if you can choose what gender you want a test tube baby to be, you can sure as hell add the DNA needed to have the other gender o.o

 

but y'know... chances are that gay/lesbian couples wouldn't want an opposite gender kid anyway o.o; don't get me wrong if they had one i'm sure they'd love one equally... but they would be able to relate more with a child of the same gender... i can relate to some extent and i've had a few homosexual friends who have said the same thing to me n_n;

[Alphabear 11]

Im sorry Mina you cant just "put the required information into the cell when your creating it". And choosing the sex of an IVF baby doesn't work along those lines either.

[Mina Synd 0]

if you know what the "required information" is, you can. how do you think test tube babies happen? they take the DNA, then inject it into the egg cell with a tiny needle. similar idea with cloning. all they have to do is find the right gene strands to do it. take the parts from the other partner, and either previously harvested from outside sources or a manmade, synthetic gene and put it in with the other stuff.

 

these things can be done, and the more complex stuff is possible just not workable for a couple of years (for instance, labelling all the different gene and DNA so they know what is what. that could take decades to fully get down. scientists have been working for a good few decades on it as it is...)

[Alphabear 11]

I understand scientists have been working on it for a long time, I study genetics. But you cant just make a y chromosome from nothing. Test tube babies are not artificial. The eggs are fertilized outside of the mother in controlled conditions in a lab by the sperm of the father.

 

If we had the technology to just add the required information we would have been able to eliminate many genetic diseases.

[Mina Synd 0]

like i said previously, in the near or distant future. not -NOW-... we know it -could- be done, we just don't have the technology to do so at the moment. as it is we can take something, say a vaccine for a virus, and make more of it...

 

and we have been studying the genetic code for many decades now. and as technology advances we will be able to map it faster and faster no? once we know these genes and what they are made of, we could probably clone them or create them ourselves. i'm guessing that must be possible with the gender chromosomes too... you can create -anything- if you have the technology to do so.

 

but for the near future you could still just take those chromosomes from a female volunteer... heck i'm no scientist but i'm sure they must have thought up -some- way around that, otherwise they wouldn't be suggesting it's possible would they?

[Alphabear 11]

There would still be no way to create a Y chromosome from a female donor.

[Mina Synd 0]

maybe not but it would certainly be possible to (at one stage) clone or synthetically produce the required genes to make a Y chromosome (it's only got 78 in it compared to an x's 2000...) so yah technically it should be possible to synthetically make it in the future - either from scratch or from cloning and customizing...

 

it's just not gonna be within our capabilities for a while. at the rate of gene discovery it could be about 100 years or more before we get the required knowledge. however at the rate of technological advance (the average computer capability more then doubling every 3 - 5 years) it could be as little as 50 or even 20 if we get more computers and more scientists working on it.

 

my view on it is why say it is impossible? nothing is impossible - only not currently possible because of technological limitation. i mean could you imagine describing say, plastic, kevlar, television or a computer to someone from the medieval era? or the british civil war era? heck, even someone from the american civil war or even so late as the victorian era would have difficulty comprehending such things...

[BlyTwo 0]

Creating a gene from scratch is absolutely possible, but not practical, not to mention there would be so many people against such an operation, it would be chaos, especially from religious factors.

 

The fabric of space and time can be altered by a simple powerful electro-magnetic charge, if we can screw with molecular structure, we can do anything humanly imaginable.

Edited December 21, 2008 by BlyTwo