CNCNZ.com Roundtable #22 - Command & Conquer 4 Special Edition

[Sonic 296]

Edition number 22 of the CNCNZ.com Roundtable is here to wrap up the month of July, and we are focusing on Command & Conquer 4 for this one. Topics in this month's Roundtable include C&C 4 or Generals 2, radical gameplay changes, internet requirements, minor role for the Scrin, the music composers and the user interface.

 

Here is the panel for this month.

• Sonic - CNCNZ.com Webmaster
• Luk3us - CNCNZ.com Forums Moderator
• Lion - CNC Den
• Banshee - Project Perfect Mod
• Chickendippers - CNC World
• Ryan - Planet CNC
• Blbpaws - CNC Generals World
• JohnWE - CNC-Files
• Mighty BOB! - CNC Source

Click here to read Roundtable Discussion #22.

[CCHyper 3]

I do like a roundtable, nice read!

[Silverthorn 0]

Ok, let me voice it out here :

 

1. It's great to have another original C&C content, I just don't want anymore Generals 2, is EA trying to gamble themselves and risk themselves again on the government, especially the Chinese. Moreover, I don't find anything interesting to continue from there either, most of all, the gameplay must still stick to the original game's content like MCVs, sidebars & harvesters. Making Generals 2 as another regular RTS is going to create another scar for the franchise just like Generals 1 if they're not careful. So personally, I rather still see Generals still remain dead in its coffin. Better not take any chances, better safe than sorry, EA. Ask yourself, I rather see a brand new universe or RA4 when C&C4 is finished.

 

2. C&C has already grown in multiplay after C&C3 was released, so all that building order can be difficult to some players, especially the casual players or players who doesn't play C&C often. So the Crawler is an ok idea, especially myself already could not take on pro players' tips such as build 2 refineries just to get closer to another expansion where your ConYard can't reach and sell the refinery, build a machine gun tower & then sell it, sell off your own ConYard (Joshi style) for extra cash if you feel you don't need it anymore, etc.. Yeck! I don't like those, I'm just casual and prefer to train the unit, selling buildings ain't for me.

 

3. A BAD MISTAKE! It is pretty obvious, not everyone are online goers, just like I remember Hexetic when he's not much of an online type of guy. Moreover, C&C4 is NO MMO game, so it should not be a pure online-only game. If a game is an MMO, we understand that it needs to be purely online, but C&C4 the RTS? Think what you have done wrong, EA, you can't force everyone to be online, it's all according to the Bill of Rights! Moreover, think about them with slower connections as well as people in the poorer countries when they're forced to go to (Many of them in my country are not comfortable in terms of the stuffy & dirty environment) internet cafes just to play C&C4! Think about the piracy rate if your non-MMO game is purely online only!

 

4. That's ok for me, the Scrin can come back later in the future expansion. But right now, it's all about Kane & why he go to the GDI headquarters. The Scrin's full invasion force will come soon much like the EotRS when they waited for the Allies & Soviets battle among themselves without keeping the other factions in check.

 

5. I'm keeping my hopes high on Frank Klepacki, if he's going to compose any new music such as Act on Instinct 2 or Warfare 2, it's best that EA DON'T give him any of their nonsense remix policies. Remember HM3 & Grinder 2? They all don't received very well by many of us, HM2 is great and ALL of us received it very well! So it's best that the remix policies should not get in the way, after all, do you want people to listen to new music with the old Tiberian Dawn-feel? Oh, and lastly, keep Steve Jablonsky away from us, his music makes me sleepy! Go tell him to improve the terrible Dragon Ball movie!

 

6. That is quite controversial when EA should not have sent that screenshot to us, so I prefer a sidebar, to retain the original C&C-content. To those bottom bar lovers & people who doesn't care if it's side or bottom bar, then go tell EA to create the best of both worlds, bottom & sidebar selection which you can pick which one you love via Settings before you play the game.

 

I'm done, Malevolence, it's your turn, let me hear yours.

[mirza044 4]

Nice read!

Edited July 31, 2009 by mirza044

[ORCaLoVeR 0]

I 100% totally agree with Mighty bob on many points.Especialy the point bout the fundamental changes

 

They should enrich the gameplay, not completly rewrite it. They should have rather go classic base building, and make a Gamemode wich includes this crawler thing. This way, everyone is pleased.Many will play this new gamemode of C&C, while still being able to play a classic C&C battle with their friends. I always have been a C&C fan, but i only played Tiberian sun online much. All the other C&Cs, was with buddy's.Doing crazy things like tank wars (Titan VS tick tank :v or Predator vs Scorpion)

 

Then again, let us await what C&C4 brings us.I was very VERY pleased with that First Screenshot. The new units, THe mammoth Walker, the titan mech.I was very pleased. But now comes the other part that needs to be pleased

Edited July 31, 2009 by ORCaLoVeR

[Nmenth 291]

Think what you have done wrong, EA, you can't force everyone to be online, it's all according to the Bill of Rights!

Don't state that like EA are required to obey the Gamers Bill of Rights, we all know EA aren't a part of it and probably couldn't care less...

The Gamers Bill of Rights would be nice to have everyone follow, but if you want to bring it up, you should rephrase it so it sounds more like a suggestion than demands.

[TheBlackOut 7]

I 100% totally agree with Mighty bob on many points.Especialy the point bout the fundamental changes

 

They should enrich the gameplay, not completly rewrite it. They should have rather go classic base building, and make a Gamemode wich includes this crawler thing. This way, everyone is pleased.Many will play this new gamemode of C&C, while still being able to play a classic C&C battle with their friends. I always have been a C&C fan, but i only played Tiberian sun online much. All the other C&Cs, was with buddy's.Doing crazy things like tank wars (Titan VS tick tank :v or Predator vs Scorpion)

 

Then again, let us await what C&C4 brings us.I was very VERY pleased with that First Screenshot. The new units, THe mammoth Walker, the titan mech.I was very pleased. But now comes the other part that needs to be pleased

This is how I feel. I saw myself agreeing with Mighty Bob a lot.

[Nmenth 291]

I saw myself agreeing with Mighty Bob a lot.

Indeed.

 

The only things he said that did not reflect my stance were,

Although I had thought that all signs pointed to the next game being Generals 2 and was a little surprised that it was not

I was quite confident Generals 2 was not the next game.

 

and...

there are several other elements that, to me, are mission-critical and will immediately affect my purchase deciscion

To me, there is no decision to be made. I will buy C&C4. If it totally sucks, I just won't play it much.

[Malevolence 6]

I'm done, Malevolence, it's your turn, let me hear yours.

 

Sure, why not, Silverthorn.

 

Nice read on the 22nd Roundtable, though there are some points kinda familiar and repetitive as I've seen some of these replies from CNCNZ as well as other C&C based sites ringing for quite a while.

 

My view on the first question is simple. I'm definitely looking forward to a new C&C game no matter what it is, be it Tiberian series, Red Alert series, Generals series or something brand new. I'm definitely comfortable hearing Command & Conquer 4, though I kinda wish EALA would revisit Generals universe, instead of creating a sequel, my idea was a remake, or spin-off, paying closer tribute to the preliminary Generals project that featured US, GLA, European forces, Khans and Africans, as well as removing and re-modifying those very elements that caused quite a lot of angry opinions in the C&C community.

Somehow it does feel kinda "rush" in a way that C&C4 is coming that soon, was kind of expecting it to be done more later but I'm alright with it. Plus, the talk that this sequel will conclude the Tiberian story arc, particularly Kane, can be quite a relief as well as kind of worrying for me. Relief in the sense that at least the story wasn't dragged too long and stuff, besides its been already fifteen years, for crying out loud, some closure would be good. The worrying factor comes when the vivid images of the FMVs and story sequences from the not-so-long Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars, honestly C&C3TW storyline was that bad, and that could be worrying especially as a casual C&C fan, you definitely won't want to be disappointed by a crappy ending, would you?

 

 

The second question, aah, yes, the "radical changes" talks. If you've been to various C&C fansites and particularly the official EA forums (FYI, a great site for humor), you've seen the opinions of the fans torn between "I'm fine with it", "Sounds new and refreshing", and the "OMG THIS IS NOT C&C", "I WANT OL' SCHOOL STYLE BACK >:[". Yes, I've look through briefly, and nevertheless it was hilarious. I'm definitely fine with the these "radical changes" EALA mentioned. And I definitely have something to add. Not long ago in CNCNZ forums, I've came up with an idea that'll probably please both parties, I named it "the best of both worlds" concept. Here is the link and please check it up.

 

 

Connecting to Internet at all times. The talk about gamer's rights. Another hilarious topic worthy of discussion.

Disclaimer:

Before I discuss further do take note that not everyone is living in your country with high speed stable internet 24/7.

For me, I'm cool with it, because I have a stable internet connection, but definitely I am feeling sad for those out there who are having trouble having a decent internet connection. I know some folks out there would probably not give a damn about such unlucky fans out and go around giving the "Who cares?" attitude. Honestly, and most sincerely, I hope EALA addressed on the issue to assist these unlucky fans out there. I know EA is fighting piracy and such by churning out many controversial methods and such, but one thing you have to know, piracy cannot be defeated no matter how hard you try, there will always be piracy all the time, I'm not trying to promote piracy, but as least spare a thought for these customers. Please.

 

 

Scrin, always felt that they were kinda extra and feels out of place especially in C&C3TW. Possibly they were portrayed badly back then, I'm alright if EALA decides to stick the focus back to GDI and Nod, but definitely looking forward for more adventures of Foreman 371.

 

 

Music Composers, as mentioned before, happy to see some of the composers behind the Red Alert 3 successful soundtrack is back, was hoping Frank Klepacki is back for new tracks, and I highly recommend another talented composer, Bear McCreary (Battlestar Galactica, Terminator The Sarah Connor Chronicles). Love his style of his music, and if he's hired by EALA for a C&C soundtrack, it'll be definitely sweet!

 

 

Sidebars or bottombars? My take: Click here for my suggestion.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Malevolence

[Silverthorn 0]

Don't state that like EA are required to obey the Gamers Bill of Rights, we all know EA aren't a part of it and probably couldn't care less...

The Gamers Bill of Rights would be nice to have everyone follow, but if you want to bring it up, you should rephrase it so it sounds more like a suggestion than demands.

 

Congratulations on your mod promotions, which I don't see that too often. But it doesn't matter, EA should NOT have said the "purely online-only" sentence in the first place (They should have kept quiet about this if I were them), then I'll be happy and will not say it out very loud in the first place. After all, C&C4 is an RTS game, not an MMO. MMOs are meant to be purely online, RTS has both online & offline mode, if you take out one of them, controversy screams!

 

------

 

Well, Mal, for yours, good ones and worth reading.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Silverthorn

[Nmenth 291]

Congratulations on your mod promotions, which I don't see that too often. But it doesn't matter, EA should NOT have said the "purely online-only" sentence in the first place

I hope you didn't take my words as me flexing my new authority, it was not meant in that way. I was merely saying that it was misleading to speak of the Gamers Bill of Rights as if EA had to or wanted to listen to it.

[Silverthorn 0]

Ahh, si si! It's just I fear they keep on going downwards instead of upwards. Look at Valve, they made a mistake which plummets themselves downwards when they show cast Left 4 Dead 2, in the end after the boycott, Valve should be going up again in terms of their reputation & popularity. But for EA (Counting on the music & cartoon industries), in the past, it goes up pretty good, but today, it all goes down. Great legends passed & it's hard to follow in their footsteps when they can't revive their legacies.

 

That's the reason why EA should follow the Bill of Rights. If they don't and just see it and then goes meh, then well, we can already picture what's next for them.

 

EDIT : I'm pretty sure that other examples will fail even more, could be a lot worse than EA so it's best that EA don't follow them. Look at some cartoon studios, especially Disney, today, they're failing and plummeting even further. And Nickelodeon is now all about Spongebob instead of the past cartoons.

Edited July 31, 2009 by Silverthorn

[ORCaLoVeR 0]

To me, there is no decision to be made. I will buy C&C4. If it totally sucks, I just won't play it much.

Probaly the same here.In the end, despite with all these new radical, and yet very unfortunate, gameplay changes, 99.5% of the people here, will still buy the Game.

 

I just hope EA makes Huge armies, with as many units as possible. I wouldnt mind if their are over 100+ diffrent units(80 for 6 factions is little, by what EA said first(UNLESS they ment 80 per Faction :v:v:v)

 

 

Just give me back Mah Orca bomber, Mammoth Walker, Mechs and i will be buying this game

 

Their you go! 2 out of 3 already done!

 

Who knows guys, EA might not screw up the story and unit designs this time.

[Guest Stevie_K]

I am mostly with MightyBOB! on this one tbh.

[Mighty BOB! 5]

Nice read on the 22nd Roundtable, though there are some points kinda familiar and repetitive as I've seen some of these replies from CNCNZ as well as other C&C based sites ringing for quite a while.

 

Yeah I'm still trying to refine my stance in words in a way that is compelling and easily comprehensible, but without sounding like a broken record.

 

 

FYI I updated my post in the Vision of C&C4 thread with a few paragraphs about the Scrin. (See the purple stuff)

[hagren 0]

Have to side with Sonic here. CnC never sounded so fresh, so exciting as what I read preliminarily from CnC4. The diversity of the classes, 80 units to play with, and an RPGesque tech tree all make for a streamlined, yet epic approach. Sometimes, less is more, the simplest games can be also the most addicting and achieve cult status. And that trailer? Bloody brilliant!

 

I'm just curious about the map and mission design, as well as the story, if all that fails, every positive aspect could be moot.

 

Go EALA! Blow us away!

 

 

But to be more detailed:

 

1. I was suprised that EALA returned to the Tiberian universe that quickly, especially after all the rumours that have been floating around after RA3's release. I don't think that Generals 2 would have been a better or worse choice, but there are many who are content with he Tiberian universe's swift re-emerging, yet also some who would have preferred Gens 2 first. I lean more towards CnC4, kane's just more compelling than any other character.

 

2. See above. EALA simply took the MCV/mobile warfactory one step further and elevated it to new, extraordinarily unique heights. As stated above, I'm very happy with it. A 17 year old formula can entertain only so long. If they balance and implement it right, this could be the next killer app- After all, many games become classics by taking away-, not adding elements. Not to mention that I was rather growing tired with having to build bases for every match, and I had fun with erecting structures for quite a long time. As an RPG-fan I'm deeply content with the XP system, adds motivation to the game on a scale never seen before in CnC. And the different classes just scream teamplay and replay value! Sure, adding elements to the core would have been a suiting solution as well, but what could have been altered after RA3? To me, the classic CnC gameplay felt like a half-dead carcass connected to shiny, sophisticated life support. Sometimes, things have to change to keep us on our toes, nostalgia or not.

 

3. I'm fine with it, but I'm sure some will be limited by this measure. I cross my fingers for offline profiles, I don't want to see lost sales out of fear of DRM.

 

4. Why would it? The Scrin played virtually identical to GDI and Nod, and only some units could impress me with their sound/art design. I'm rather happy that they bring back the series' to its GDI vs. Nod roots, including more serious FMVs. I won't mind them returning in an expansion pack, but let's face it, the Tiberian saga is all about our one leader, our messiah, KANE!

 

5. Frank already expressed his interest in scoring CnC4, but to be frank (Clever pun hee hee), he just has not been the same, or rather, he was, since most of the "new" tracks he made for UaW and RA3/Uprising sounded antiquated, whereas Hannigan's and Wynn's contribution was varied and professional. Of course, if he'd add some TD remixes, I'd be the last to critisize. As for Hannigan and Wynn, they just have to learn making longer tracks, and we're all set.

 

6. I don't really give a flying dookie about the UI placement, it just should be intuitive and responsive. I'd love a drag n drop UI though, to keep everyone satisfied . The design itself is very sexy, by the way.

Edited July 31, 2009 by hagren

[jamhaw5 0]

closer tribute to the preliminary Generals project that featured US, GLA, European forces, Khans and Africans, as well as removing and re-modifying those very elements that caused quite a lot of angry opinions in the C&C community.

 

Really they were planning to have all those other factions? Is their any online information on that?

[mirza044 4]

Have to side with Sonic here. CnC never sounded so fresh, so exciting as what I read preliminarily from CnC4. The diversity of the classes, 80 units to play with, and an RPGesque tech tree all make for a streamlined, yet epic approach. Sometimes, less is more, the simplest games can be also the most addicting and achieve cult status. And that trailer? Bloody brilliant!

 

I'm just curious about the map and mission design, as well as the story, if all that fails, every positive aspect could be moot.

 

Go EALA! Blow us away!

 

 

But to be more detailed:

 

1. I was suprised that EALA returned to the Tiberian universe that quickly, especially after all the rumours that have been floating around after RA3's release. I don't think that Generals 2 would have been a better or worse choice, but there are many who are content with he Tiberian universe's swift re-emerging, yet also some who would have preferred Gens 2 first. I lean more towards CnC4, kane's just more compelling than any other character.

 

2. See above. EALA simply took the MCV/mobile warfactory one step further and elevated it to new, extraordinarily unique heights. As stated above, I'm very happy with it. A 17 year old formula can entertain only so long. If they balance and implement it right, this could be the next killer app- After all, many games become classics by taking away-, not adding elements. Not to mention that I was rather growing tired with having to build bases for every match, and I had fun with erecting structures for quite a long time. As an RPG-fan I'm deeply content with the XP system, adds motivation to the game on a scale never seen before in CnC. And the different classes just scream teamplay and replay value! Sure, adding elements to the core would have been a suiting solution as well, but what could have been altered after RA3? To me, the classic CnC gameplay felt like a half-dead carcass connected to shiny, sophisticated life support. Sometimes, things have to change to keep us on our toes, nostalgia or not.

 

3. I'm fine with it, but I'm sure some will be limited by this measure. I cross my fingers for offline profiles, I don't want to see lost sales out of fear of DRM.

 

4. Why would it? The Scrin played virtually identical to GDI and Nod, and only some units could impress me with their sound/art design. I'm rather happy that they bring back the series' to its GDI vs. Nod roots, including more serious FMVs. I won't mind them returning in an expansion pack, but let's face it, the Tiberian saga is all about our one leader, our messiah, KANE!

 

5. Frank already expressed his interest in scoring CnC4, but to be frank (Clever pun hee hee), he just has not been the same, or rather, he was, since most of the "new" tracks he made for UaW and RA3/Uprising sounded antiquated, whereas Hannigan's and Wynn's contribution was varied and professional. Of course, if he'd add some TD remixes, I'd be the last to critisize. As for Hannigan and Wynn, they just have to learn making longer tracks, and we're all set.

 

6. I don't really give a flying dookie about the UI placement, it just should be intuitive and responsive. I'd love a drag n drop UI though, to keep everyone satisfied . The design itself is very sexy, by the way.

 

Is there anything you dislike about C&C4 or where you disagree with EALA?

Edited August 1, 2009 by mirza044

[Malevolence 6]

I'm very surprised by Hagren's 100% absolute positive responses, lol. And yes the drag and drop window UI concept should be enough to please all sidebar and bottombar enthusiasts.

 

Yeah I'm still trying to refine my stance in words in a way that is compelling and easily comprehensible, but without sounding like a broken record.

 

 

FYI I updated my post in the Vision of C&C4 thread with a few paragraphs about the Scrin. (See the purple stuff)

 

And yes Mighty BOB!, I love your detailed vision of your own C&C4, well done!

 

Probaly the same here.In the end, despite with all these new radical, and yet very unfortunate, gameplay changes, 99.5% of the people here, will still buy the Game.

 

I just hope EA makes Huge armies, with as many units as possible. I wouldnt mind if their are over 100+ diffrent units(80 for 6 factions is little, by what EA said first(UNLESS they ment 80 per Faction :v:v:v)

 

 

Just give me back Mah Orca bomber, Mammoth Walker, Mechs and i will be buying this game

 

Their you go! 2 out of 3 already done!

 

Who knows guys, EA might not screw up the story and unit designs this time.

 

EALA talked about pop cap, not too sure you can see all these 100+ units appearing at once ingame. And yes, definitely people are gonna purchased it no matter what because it's C&C, for crying out loud.

As for the story wise, we have to wait and see, but lets not put the hopes too high just yet.

[hagren 0]

Is there anything you dislike about C&C4 or where you disagree with EALA?

Some unit designs look a bit questionable, and the SAG engine is obsolete. But apart from, that, I pretty much embrace all the changes EA made, IF the story, level design and mission design will be decent enough, the game relatively bug-free, satisfying in length and balanced.

[ORCaLoVeR 0]

EALA talked about pop cap, not too sure you can see all these 100+ units appearing at once ingame. And yes, definitely people are gonna purchased it no matter what because it's C&C, for crying out loud.

As for the story wise, we have to wait and see, but lets not put the hopes too high just yet.

The population cap needs to go, seriously, it really ruins it imo

[hagren 0]

Depends on how restrictive it will be. I'm sure I never built more than 20 Mammoths in TW missions. On a somewhat unrelated note, I miss being invited to the roundtables I guess my views are a bit too tame

Edited August 1, 2009 by hagren

[Silverthorn 0]

Orca, if you don't want any pop caps, look around when you watch the C&C3 matches, all that tank spam is really giving players a headache. And casual players sometimes don't play like the pros like building tons of refineries & harvesters just to harvest faster, build temporary buildings like Watch Towers and sell it off just for the mere rifle squads, etc..

 

With pop caps, although not C&C material, but today, C&C already have high amounts of online gameplay compare to its past when there isn't much going on. With the pop caps, players will ask themselves if they really want more harvesters to harvest faster but with the price of wasting a pop cap? Moreover, they should ask themselves should they go for mammoth tanks or have to spam dozens of predators or the zone troopers. It's all about controlling the flow without overpowering anyone for unknown reasons, similar to playing Starcraft 2 if you watch the Battle Reports.

 

And hagren, I also don't mind getting invited, I would prefer if Malevolence would to join in.

Edited August 1, 2009 by Silverthorn

[ORCaLoVeR 0]

Orca, if you don't want any pop caps, look around when you watch the C&C3 matches, all that tank spam is really giving players a headache. And casual players sometimes don't play like the pros like building tons of refineries & harvesters just to harvest faster, build temporary buildings like Watch Towers and sell it off just for the mere rifle squads, etc..

 

But lets say they put in a pop cap

 

EA=OK! You can only build 50 units!

 

They just use all the pop caps for the same tank, and rush with them.

 

[Silverthorn 0]

But there will be counters if you spam the same units. WCG was retarded when they don't pick RA3, tons of scorpions are hard to counter while tons of Guardians are easy to counter. I'm pretty sure WCG loves same unit spams more than pure skills relying on using different units to win.