Religious answer to terrorist problem

[Waraddict 0]

Waraddict, have you ever heard the saying "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I think this applies doubly so to the terrorists and the Iraqi regime. The US was probably just trying to stop a pair of enemies from reaching common conclusions and banding together to form a much more united front.

 

Im afraid that's a mixture of speculation and paranoia, it's for the same reason you could assume any country that disfavors America harbours terrorists. That's simply an unrealistic task, especially when the most effective tactic against terrorists is to get their leader, considering that Al Qaeda is the primary Terrorist organisation that is a definite threat to the USA and Europe, it is disconcerning that the USA does not see this and feels it should satisfy pure abstract reasoning on terrorism.

 

Frankly Im afraid the war in Iraq is a failure, due to over simplification of the previous situation with Saddam in power. The logic that removing a dictator from a country can only improve a country is unfortunately flawed, Yes the Iraqi's could be better without Saddam and should be, but without the right guidance, the right preparation and the right understanding of the history of Iraq can that be done. Unfortunately it's gone to the dogs now, since it didn't occur to the USA before they went in that Iraq is a British set-up country and that it's people have no sense of Iraqi nationality at all, they should have planned three seperate states because the only other outcome is civil war. The USA simply rushed into it too much, now was NOT the time to liberate Iraq, another goal was supposed to be achieved and that is the assassination of the Al Qaeda leader, Osama Bin Laden (funny how news of him has faded so much).

[Cygnus X-1 12]

all of you out there who condemn the Us actions against Iraq

 

define WMD's

 

Scud dont count then i guess ? Oh I suppose helicopters armed with chemical weapons dont count either (remember the Kurds ?) and the fact that he is sitting in the middle east with arguable the biggest military power in the area, oh yeah, he invaded Kuwait, as well as got into a war with Isreal for no apparent reason....sure this guy's ok, no reason to take him out eh ?

 

stupid blind people. I dont see any other nations leading things in the Middle East. Funny how everyone condemns the US for trying, when without US (pun) you all would be nowhere.

 

As for Nations like N. Korea and Iran-Nuclear weapons are somewhat mroe delicate a situation here. Like BWare has said, that is still in diplomatic stage.

 

and as for US ignoring the UN...well they gave Saddamn 12 years to disarm, and in that 12 years, he has re-armes, gased the Kurds, rebult his stockpile of Scuds, harbored terrorists, and threatened the already messy Middle East, and attempted to aquire nuclear weapons. And yet, some how, the UN failed to notice all fo this, and now you condemn Us for getting rid of a very threatening menace.

 

Grow up, and realise that we are doing good. No one else will do it, so we have to, alone if we must. You cant condemn us for mistakes, its human nature. We are not perfect. But at least we ARE fighting for the freedom of the oppressed peoples of the world.

[BWare 0]

That's right Cygnus. Also, don't forget the 500 tons of plutonium they found in Iraq....

 

And let me point out one thing- when you pin the "WMD gibberish" on "Dubya" (we appreciate the respect there :roll:), you are really being very shortsighted and immature. There was widespread consensus that Iraq did have WMD stockpiles (this wasn't out of nowhere- he'd USED THEM BEFORE), and in a post 9/11 world, we just couldn't take the risk of him allying with a terrorist organization and slipping them a nuke or bio weapon! Even if he wasn't teamed up with Al Quaeda to some extent (we still don't know for sure), could you sleep soundly knowing that there's a rogue state out there with the potential to develop WMDs (best case scenario) and use terrorists as a delivery tool and keep his hands clean in the process? Are you too blind to see the potential danger there?? This shortsightedness really freaks me out... the fact that so many people lose perspective so easily.

 

 

 

By the way, any of you folks man enough to respond to the Oil for Food scandal? :roll:

[Waraddict 0]

all of you out there who condemn the Us actions against Iraq

 

define WMD's

 

In my opinion, I would define them as Nuclear, Chemical or Biological ICBMs.

 

If you want a more general explanation, the answer is, it's completely open to speculation, the term is much too abstract and unprofessional to be a proper argument in any military action. In its present form you could argue any country has them and therefore WMDs are the perfect excuse to attack any country of choice.

 

Presumably though, the WMDs in question that were used as an excuse to invade Iraq were ones to which the US was concerned about that could reach themselves, or their allies, the post powerful weapon Saddam had could only reach east Cyprus at best and it is a conventional warhead missile, the Al Samud, there were no Scuds.

 

the fact that he is sitting in the middle east with arguable the biggest military power in the area, oh yeah, he invaded Kuwait, as well as got into a war with Isreal for no apparent reason....sure this guy's ok, no reason to take him out eh ?

 

That point is irrelevant, you do know that during the Iran/Iraq war your own country supported and armed him? Clearly the USA had no real concern for who was fighting who in the Middle East back then. Not only that, but Iraq certainly does not have the largest army in the middle east, Israel, Iran and Saudi Arabia all have much larger armies. Also, try not to hop to a black and white conclusion, Saddam was most certainly NOT ok, nobody in their right mind would argue that he was.

 

stupid blind people. I dont see any other nations leading things in the Middle East. Funny how everyone condemns the US for trying, when without US (pun) you all would be nowhere.

 

What on earth makes you think anyone should lead things in the middle east? Oh and people certainly have the right to condemn the US for 'trying', when you remove the regieme of a country 'trying' is a far cry from what should be done considering how serious and vast an operation it is. The Iraqi people were repressed by a dictator, even only doing them one better is a disgrace.

 

Grow up, and realise that we are doing good. No one else will do it, so we have to, alone if we must. You cant condemn us for mistakes, its human nature. We are not perfect. But at least we ARE fighting for the freedom of the oppressed peoples of the world.

 

Im afraid your arguement is no where near 'grown up' itself, it shows nothing to me but besides baseless arguement founded in nothing but naivety and patriotism. Mistakes simply cannot be made with these operations, mistakes are literally genecidal in this area.

 

By the way, any of you folks man enough to respond to the Oil for Food scandal?

 

This may suprise you, but I don't use the two dimensional thinking of the ignorant, just because I don't side on the Iraq war doesn't mean I side on that scandal, it was wrong and horribly unethical. The fact is money in the Western World is becoming a source of false worship, people break moral conduct these days for cash because they don't see salvation in God but in wealth instead.

[Mr_Lee_ 0]

In my opinion, I would define them as Nuclear, Chemical or Biological ICBMs.

 

So Saddam had them then. He used them on the Kurds and launched Scuds at Kuwait in the opening days of the war on Iraq.

 

Saddam had could only reach east Cyprus at best and it is a conventional warhead missile, the Al Samud, there were no Scuds.

 

Read above

 

What on earth makes you think anyone should lead things in the middle east? Oh and people certainly have the right to condemn the US for 'trying', when you remove the regieme of a country 'trying' is a far cry from what should be done considering how serious and vast an operation it is. The Iraqi people were repressed by a dictator, even only doing them one better is a disgrace.

 

We have people at the head of Europe, why not the Middle East.

 

Grow up, and realise that we are doing good. No one else will do it, so we have to, alone if we must. You cant condemn us for mistakes, its human nature. We are not perfect. But at least we ARE fighting for the freedom of the oppressed peoples of the world.

 

Doing so good your troops are getting killed everyday? I know someone out in Iraq and he gets people injured by public stoning etc

 

Im afraid your arguement is no where near 'grown up' itself, it shows nothing to me but besides baseless arguement founded in nothing but naivety and patriotism. Mistakes simply cannot be made with these operations, mistakes are literally genecidal in this area.

 

Americans are so patriotic that they're actually showing pictures of bases on the Internet. They're anything but patriotic at times. I've seen more mihilism from the USA than anything else, and I can say that because

I'm british.

 

This may suprise you, but I don't use the two dimensional thinking of the ignorant, just because I don't side on the Iraq war doesn't mean I side on that scandal, it was wrong and horribly unethical. The fact is money in the Western World is becoming a source of false worship, people break moral conduct these days for cash because they don't see salvation in God but in wealth instead.

 

Thats called Capitalism, you'll find America's quite fond of it.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Iraq/Iran war

 

Iran was the greater evil at the time.

 

as for making mistakes

 

Everyone makes them, even the sole remaining world superpower. I'd hate to see what kind of things other nations would be doing with out the massive cohesion required for these opperations.

 

Everyone condemns the US for going into places like the Missile East and removing fascist dictators, and yet I dont see ayone else dong the same without the US going in first and risking OUR LIVES and OUR TROOPS for the lives and freedoms of others.

 

Its strange. that no one else will go in to area such as the Missile East and openly oppose dictators and terrorist, it takes the US leader ship to get hte world moving against them. ANother proff that the UN is ineffective. Many of you condemn the mistakes the US has made. Would you be doing the same if say, those were French and German troops that had one in an handled the Iraq situation ?

 

No one seemed to want to go after the Terrorist harboring taliban, until someone they were protecting took a bit out of the US. and even then ,teh UN refused to respond.

 

So dont tell me to grow up and post real arguments. and as for americans posting pics of "secret" bases. you think those are real ? c'mon, we arent the sole world superpower for stupid things like that. :roll:

[F15pilotX 4]

...I'm against torture in its strictest sense, but ununiformed terrorists fighting under no nation's flag are not covered by the Geneva Convention. It does NOT apply to them :wink:

Why do I always forget little details like that :oops:

 

as to the UN...in my opinion,, that is THE most ineffectiveorganization the world has seen in a long time, if not ever

[General Leang 0]

Just to follow up on the points raised on the UN that I neglected to answer, yes they are currupt and ineffective. However, in the eyes of many in the world, including rogue states such as Iraq (quite possibly because it works to their advantage) they are akin to the Jedi Council, a benevolent faction who could do no wrong and whose word overrules all.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Except that the Jedi Council appointed Jedi to look into and resolve questionable situations, mind you these are fully trained Jedi (master) and his/her/its apprentice (padawan) and are fully qualified, whereas the UN sends overwieght lasy inspectors who walk through Saddam's living room, dont see a big red button that says "WMD's Press here" and then they leave and say he is clean, completely forgetting that 12 years before they told him to disarm, forgetting that he rearmed, as well as used chemical weapons against the kurds, and had Scuds, and was using them against various nations, including the US troops at the begining of the invasion.

[General Leang 0]

As Knights of the Old Republic and maybe others have pointed out, the Jedi are not perfect either, but the point is that by going against the UN America look like the bad guys, to the extent that human shields go over to Iraq to defend Saddam's military and mulisha that is fighting there after Saddam was ousted is considered the good guys and the coalition forces the bad guys.

 

Hmmm, another Star Wars similarity there, if you wanted to read into it. The rebels being the good guys and the empire, accepted as the law and order, the bad guys.

[BWare 0]

If you want to look at reality through the lens of star wars, sure...... :lol:

 

@Cygnus- very, very well said dude.

[General Leang 0]

Now you know what happens when you play KOTOR for weeks on end.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

That is a good comparison, however there are few things thsat need to be said here.

 

If we were really like the empire, you would have bombed Irag to the ground, stolen the Oil, then help the people under oppresion. whereas what we are doing is helping htem set up a government and have "peace keeping' forces in place until we feel that everythign is secure

[BWare 0]

WHY are some people so stupid that they can't see what we're doing?? It's the same thing the US ALWAYS does when we invade a country. We destroy it to some extent of course, but then we nation build! We left Germany and Japan better than when we found them in WWII, and then we gain an ally and take another step towards peace (well, maybe not so much in the case of Germany lately... :roll:)! Yes, that's peace through WAR you pacifist morons.

 

But OMG 1r4q iz war 4 0il!!!!11!!eleven

No bl00d 4 oil lolz!!!!111!!

 

I am so SICK of that intellectually vapid nonsense. Ugh. As Cygnus said, if we WERE like that, Iraq would be a smoldering crater with many working American oil derricks, and we'd be paying a quarter a gallon. But NO! We're there to spread FREEDOM AND DEMOCRACY, and therefore peace and prosperity. Why is this so hard to understand or such a horrible thing?? I just don't get some people... :roll:

[General Leang 0]

Look through what I wrote. I said how the UN is currupt and ineffective. People ignore this and consider them holier than thou, or holier than America, and in large because America defied the UN we have people going 'Bush is Hitler' and 'ZOMFG 1r4q iz war 4 0il!!!!11!!eleven

No bl00d 4 oil lolz!!!!111!!' and other comments that would make Hybrid's head hurt. This is how I see the situation with Iraq. Now my feelings over it are this. America bombed Iraq and got rid of Saddam. Yes they might be after oil. The war was declared over and Saddam was captured two years ago. If America has done wrong then find evidence of it. Until then I am going to move on from Iraq and not live in the past about it.

[BWare 0]

Very well said Leang. I completely agree, even though I honestly don't believe that oil was even a motivation to any real extent. It's a factor, sure- everything is- but I don't believe that it was in any way even a sub-reason of why we made that move.

[Acerz492 1]

Whatever the case, in a few decades, or maybe in a century's time, people will look back and remember this as one of the biggest controversies of the new millennium.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

that they may

 

then again, it may be forgotten in the turmoil to come....(oh boy, MORE conspiracists!!)

 

people are stupid. A lot say that we are tyrannical and have no hearts in our leadership. Well I dont see them in there freeing these people. I have spoken with 2 Mariens persaonlly, and I saw a video one of them shot while he was in Iraq.

 

The people out there love the US troops. Villages that were just cardboard housing now have structures, cars, and the children have clothes.

 

The kids love the US troops, especialyl their sunglasses. US troops have also been warned by kids about mines and stuff quite a few times. One of the Marines talked abotu how some kids told them about an ambush, so the Marines ended up capturing or killing 15 or so guys who would have attcked their vehicles with RPGs.

 

That is not bad. In fact, that shows that we are doing a lot of good over there. But yes, as Leang said, Saddam is in our hands now, the Iraqi's are nearly ready to go with thier own government, and we are training their troops to be very efficient at what they do, and as well, Iraqi troops have surplus US equipment from Desert Storm.

[General Leang 0]

It is also worth noting that there are countries a lot worse than America (yes there is) that these people do not seem to go after. Countries such as India and Pakistan, who may have nuclear weapons to use on each other and support terrorism. Countries such as Somalia, where rival gangs and warlord fight for control over the poverty stricken wasteland. It is a pity that fat prick Mugabe cannot be assassinated, he really deserves to be given what he has done to Zimbabwe. You can justify Palestinion attacks on Israel all you like, but using children as suicide bombers is more than a little rich. And yes, Iraq when Saddam was in power. Where were all the naysayers before America started talking about invading Iraq, or was the world a perfect place then?

[Cygnus X-1 12]

well said Leang.

 

Its funny how the US sees the problem and goes after it, the UK follows, the UN sits on their fat arses and says we are wrong, and the rest of the world critizes, but only when the US leads the opperation (and we have led just about every one since WWII)

 

yet no other nation ever stands up and says "now wait jsut a minute here...."

 

:? this world is a very strange place :?

[BWare 0]

The western world has gotten fat, lazy, and corrupt (*cough* oil for food program! *cough*), and I fear that the US, the last country it seems willing to go out on a limb and DO something, is getting the wind taken out of its sails. The foolish criticisms and mindless pacifism here from the aging remnants of the 60s hippy movement (MORONS) and their newly programmed neohippies (MORONS) have gotten pretty ridiculous, and I just pray that we can maintain what's left of our warrior metality.

 

But yeah.... those stories from Iraq are common, but tell me WHY they see no coverage or exposure? The progress happening in Iraq is truly remarkable, but all we hear is endless pessimism and gloom and doom from our idiot media dinosaurs. Thank God for the new media and the internet!

[F15pilotX 4]

Thank God for the new media and the internet!

In other words, Fox News

[BWare 0]

and Rush Limbaugh :wink:

[Doctor Destiny 41]

I do hope both of you are being sarcastic. I really do. And if not, I pity your foolishness.

[General Leang 0]

I saw something that should have C&C King worried. The WWE is supporting the troops in Iraq, sending their talent over and all. Quick, go after the wrestling (again) because they support war for oil and are telling the world that wiping out the innocent people in the armies of Saddam Hussein, a freedom fighter standing up to the evil power of America, is a good thing.