Silly Australlian ;)

[Cygnus X-1 12]

/ ok that takes the crown. (pardon the pun :wink: ) Rum currency. :lol: :lol:

 

Imperialsim did do a lot of good for the world, but it had its downsides. Like the surpression of local culture. But aside from that and slavery, it was all good.

 

Closest thing to a United Global Government this planet has ever seen. :wink:

[Alphabear 11]

yeah currency production was low and rum was relativly easy to produce compared to the existing currency

 

but without imperialism countries like America, Australia and canada would not be developed would not be developed

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Thats why its a good thing :wink:

 

But without WWII Israel as a nation would never have happened, so.....not all things that are good turn out good, and not all things that are bad turn out bad.

[Alphabear 11]

eh controversial issue there so i dont really want to go into the whole israel being good or bad thing

[BWare 0]

Imperialsim did do a lot of good for the world, but it had its downsides. Like the surpression of local culture. But aside from that and slavery, it was all good.

2 things:

-I'm pretty quick to question the value of "local culture." Many "local cultures" were and are responsible for some of the sickest and most inhumane stuff you could ever imagine. Take, for example, the African countries that practice genital mutilation on their young girls. In many cases... MANY cases... the destruction of local culture and imposition of a more advanced culture was a good thing. I think I may have made some enemies with this point... but there it is, and if you disagree, give me a good reason why.

 

-Secondly, the slavery issue has been very often blamed on western countries like Britain, especially because they used it so extensively during colonialism (and it's soooo freakin' trendy to hate the west :roll:). One thing you have to realize, though, is that slavery at that point had been around since the beginning of time. Not that it's an excuse, but those who practiced slavery didn't even see it AT ALL as wrong. Hell, they were very often sold slaves by the African leaders themselves. To them, it was legitimate business. They were not monsters, and slavery wasn't at all what we see it as today... it was not good, but we really need to keep it in context historically. Most of us are guilty of seeing slavery as an absolute evil... just think of the gut reaction you get just hearing the word. Try to look beyond that, realizing that it violates human rights (our modern perception of them, at least), but also keeping an objective outlook.

 

 

So that's just my 2 cents.

 

 

 

 

...oh, and Alphabear, I'll tackle that issue: Israel = good. :wink:

[Alphabear 11]

Slavery still exists in most of the world today so it really cant be used against western culture anymore

 

ah but if israel didnt exist there would not be the troubles we now have in the middle east

[BWare 0]

...and if the US or Britain didn't exist during WWII, we wouldn't have caused such massive turmoil by getting in Hitler's way :roll:. That's a very very bad way to look at history dude. Israel is not the CAUSE of the problems in the Middle East. If anything, they're a bastion of good in a very dark place in the world.... and sure that can cause problems, but whose side are you on? :?

[Alphabear 11]

Im on neither side. im not necessarily against israel but more against its choices. Its been holding the Palestinians under occupations for years under appauling human rights. And now as israelis want to settle in the palestinian land that is under this occupation the IDF is forcefully taking the palestinians out of their homes and moving them back so Israelis can build. Therefore i fail to see how the Israel is better than the palestinians.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

They havent been holding Palestinians for years :roll:

 

Israel was given that land fair and square, and instead of trying to get it back peacefully, Palestinians went striaght to the Egyptians and Iran and said help us kill the Isrealis.

 

May I remind you that Isreal still stands, and they fly F-15s, which still havent taken a single combat loss.

 

 

As for slaver-I agree with BWare. The modern world makes it out to be a horrible horrible thing. But looking back on the American Civil war, I feel sympathy for the C.S.A. (and yes I do recognize it as a legitamate government) they fought to defend their right to be different. Slavery is bad yes, but it doesnt have to be.

 

Looking at African cultures, BWare has a very good point, Civilization and technology has saved millions of these people. but it has alos supressed much of their culture and various others that didnt involve attrocoties as we see them today. Remember, in their eyes, what they did wasnt evil.

 

"No one sees themselves as the "bad guys". You must remember that. Waging war just because the enemy is "bad" makes you just as bad as you see them to be. Always always have sound reasons for doing anything, especialy something as far out as war." - Oromis, Dragon Rider

[Alphabear 11]

the total land that israel has now was not what was given to them. It was origionally split fairly equally between them and Palestine but israel has claimbed it in the wars. Anyway what the palestinians did when israel was created is the same thing that would happen if the USA or any other country was forced into giving up half its land against its will to people they dont get allong with. If my country was forced to give up half its land so another country could be created that hated us i know what i would be doing.

[TheBlackOut 7]

Eh, I just don't want to piss God off.

[BWare 0]

Eh, I just don't want to piss God off.

You are very right about that TSBO :wink:

 

But Alphabear, you are just spewing anti-Israeli propaganda that has little to no grounding in actual truth. Just tell me again who the real aggressors are here- the Israelis who are trying to defend their tiny piece of land from the insane amount of opposition they face on all sides, or the animal Palestinians whose primary mode of attack is the suicide bombing of school buses and squares filled with women and children? The fact that you can actually side with those animals is just amazing to me.

Also bear in mind that Israel just gave up the Gaza Strip to the Palestinians... a bad move in my opinion, but one that was met with widespread looting and vandalism- smashing all the Israelis had built- by its new owners :roll:

Great people.

Oh, and about Israel unfairly taking land that was once Palestinian after WWII? THAT was the result of more wars, all fought by countless surrounding enemies whose sole objective was the elimination of the tiny country. They NEED that buffer (small as it is) to survive. It's as simple as that. The fact that they didn't take a giant chunk of the Middle East for themselves when they had the chance (you know, when they whooped the collective asses of the surrounding Muslim aggressors) is a testament to their "fairness." Their single goal is survival, and you seem to have a problem with it!

 

A little T shirt delivered perspective for ya:

[Alphabear 11]

Ok you missunderstand my stance here. I in no way beleive that suicide bombings or anything along those line attack innocent civilians. However none of us here has any idea of what it would be like to be born into an area such as the gaza strip which is one of the most densely populated places on earth and growing up with the israeli millitary watching everything you do with little to no chance of leaveing the area. Children are growing up with their families being forcefully moved around by isralei soldiers and that therefore is going to create more resent towards Israel

 

Also Israel although being backed and supplied by the US was told not to attampt to continue its wars into egypt or syria as the USSR had deployed large ammounts of tactical nuclear weapons into egypt and syria incase Israel continued on.

 

There are terrible human rights abuses on both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict so calling all Palestinians "animals" and stating " Israel = good" clearly shows that your arguments are based purely on propaganda. Not that i blame you as that is the intended result from such propaganda no matter what side it comes from.

 

Even amoung the Jewish community the zionists and anti-zionists are fairly evenly matched with regards to their arguments annd supporters.

[BWare 0]

However none of us here has any idea of what it would be like to be born into an area such as the gaza strip which is one of the most densely populated places on earth and growing up with the israeli millitary watching everything you do with little to no chance of leaveing the area.

Agreed, but this does NOT excuse their actions. Besides, what do you expect the Israelis to do?? They act as humanely as they possibly can! Keep in mind that the surrounding nations can't stand the Palestinians- they're the scum of the earth to the other Muslim nations. If they should be allowed to move anywhere, why should Israel take a venomous enemy in when the other Muslim nations have room to spare? Think about it. The only way they get any support from their fellow Muslims is through a common hatred for Israel- but they will still NOT accept Palestinian refugees. Keep in mind also that they settle for nothing but the complete destruction of the Israeli nation. How would you deal with people like that knocking on your door? Invite them in??

 

Children are growing up with their families being forcefully moved around by isralei soldiers and that therefore is going to create more resent towards Israel

...so the rape victim is more responsible than the raper? I'm very sick of that argument.......

 

There are terrible human rights abuses on both sides of the Arab-Israeli conflict so calling all Palestinians "animals" and stating " Israel = good" clearly shows that your arguments are based purely on propaganda. Not that i blame you as that is the intended result from such propaganda no matter what side it comes from.

:roll:

Please don't insult my intelligence. I'm not a mindless victim of propaganda, and I don't claim that you are either. Let's assume that we're both thinking individuals who happen to disagree on a certain topic, k?

I was saying those things partly for comedic effect and because I like to avoid long drawn out points as much as possible (it's hell for the other readers to go through). But hey, what would you call a group who actively supports and commits suicide bombings that target innocent civillians on a REGULAR basis, causing an entire country to live in constant fear?? I don't know about you, but it's hard for me to consider them fellow human beings....

[Alphabear 11]

Let's assume that we're both thinking individuals who happen to disagree on a certain topic, k?

Wow thats one thing that i never expected from you. I always thought you hated the agree to dissagree thing.

 

but yes i think thats probably the smartest thing to do as we both have differing viewpoints on the issue as does most of the world.

[BWare 0]

Wow thats one thing that i never expected from you. I always thought you hated the agree to dissagree thing.

Yeah... I don't think that you totally understand my point of view here.

Just for clarification, I absolutely think that there's room for disagreement, and that 2 people can agree to disagree, but I also believe strongly in absolute truth and that people can still be right or wrong (we can't all be right...). The trick is in discussing and finding out who is right! I can see how I can be confusing about that at times, but that's what I believe. There's right and wrong, but people can still disagree on what's right or wrong. See what I mean?

 

but yes i think thats probably the smartest thing to do as we both have differing viewpoints on the issue as does most of the world.

Exactly. Lively debate is great, but everyone should leave room to be corrected and change their point of view, myself definitely included. It's how ya learn, and it's the chief benefit of debate.

[Alphabear 11]

See what I mean?

 

i do now

[TheBlackOut 7]

Lets just give France to Israel... Come on... Nobody would care.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Lets just give France to Israel... Come on... Nobody would care.

 

theres one thing I agree with. Cept the French would probably just have another revolution. :roll: :wink:

 

The Israelis lived in peace in the middle east, until 2 days after they had been given their land and were attacked. from then on its been constant war.

[TheBlackOut 7]

Lets just give France to Israel... Come on... Nobody would care.

 

theres one thing I agree with. Cept the French would probably just have another revolution. :roll: :wink:

 

The Israelis lived in peace in the middle east, until 2 days after they had been given their land and were attacked. from then on its been constant war.

 

Erm, who said we will let the French stay in France? Also, they are not fighters anymore.

[Tree 0]

Sooooo, that Austrailian guy is really dumb, huh.

 

:roll:

[General Leang 0]

You want crazy, how about Damir Dokic?

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10917587/

 

He and Hybrid should get hitched.

 

Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo. Cookoo.

[Acerz492 1]

Bloody hell. Some people....:roll:

 

I remember that freaky guy who wanted to have a place in Australian parliment, Leang, that First Muslim Party of Australia or something that you told me about. :shock: Still got that link floating around?

[General Leang 0]

Yes, the First Muslim Party. That lasted long. Rings were run around the person behind it. The recording would have been replaced with current news, such as Greens demanding they are in power and the yearly phenomenon of arsonists lighting fires. I could find or put up the recording somewhere, people could probably do with a laugh at him trying to explain the party and continually contradict himself.

[Acerz492 1]

If you still have the link just post it up on this thread, Leang. You're right about one thing though, people could do with a laugh.