Darwin Vs Intelligent Design

[BWare 0]

redasblood, man, I love ya, but that entire response deserves one big :roll:

 

Sheesh.

 

...so your sayin in my previous post none of those ideas are fathomable? are you saying they are impossible? because we all know (i shouldnt say this it will start a fire) nothing is impossible...expect the unexpected

I never made any of those points. Again I encourage you to READ' date=' PROCESS, THEN RESPOND.

 

now how could you guys laugh at the fact that i used movies to provide examples of what could possibly be the nature of the known universe...movies are not jokes...well comedic ones are...but there is alot of creativity and inspiration in movies...even fictional ones...

Okay, but I wouldn't base too much serious thinking around a Hollywood production designed to do nothing more than make money.

 

ok now your saying that drugs makes some ideas look more profound.....Not for me at least...

Yes' date=' yes it applies to you. :roll: You are NOT special. Drugs affect you just like they do everyone else.

 

all these ideas ive been throwing in the air....with the movie examples....are not just science...they are somewhat ID...incorporating spirituality with science and unpredictability..and creativity

ID is not incorporating spirituality with science, "unpredictability" (whatever that means), and creativity. Like I've already said a million times, ID is simply the acknowledgement that there is far too much order in this universe to rule out the possibility of some creative element. It goes no deeper than that.

 

so BWare says that the ideas i used are stupid and unscienctific W/E u said...well then that makes religion...and in turn ID stupid....

What the hell did that even mean?? Are you on shrooms now?

And again' date=' you have NO IDEA what I even said earlier. This is just annoying. Once again... READ, PROCESS, RESPOND.

 

my ideas arent clouded and scattered...they are open...which is in a way incomplete/partial....but like i said a couple of times...i like having an open mind esp. about metaphysical ideas...and that means not making any fully constructed claims...

So...... your ideas are completely worthless. I call it clouded and scattered (which they ARE), and you call them "open" :roll:

To each his own. Frankly I prefer the ACTUAL UNDERSTANDING of science... not these vague, esoteric, "open-minded" ramblings of pretentious, idiotic druggies who are sooooo convinced that they understand the world on such a higher plane than everyone else, simply because they have chemicals ravaging their brain. Frankly, as a guy working his ass off to actually understand this stuff, it really angers me to be totally honest.

 

and i have only taken drugs in moderation...so my mind wasnt that wrecked when i came up with that universal idea...

And you can actually judge when your mind is in fact impaired by drugs? Sorry' date=' but NO ONE knows that limit, because one of the things being affected is that perception itself. Frankly, if those drugs were actually that harmless, they wouldn't be illegal.

 

when i said we all have our own personal truths...did you know what i meant? did you ever take philosophy? when i said that i meant everyone has their opinion about the universe and their own philosophy...plus i said ABOUT LIFE AND EXISTANCE.....basically could be tranlated as beliefs...stop disecting my friken statements...they are more simple and general than they seem

I'm not dissecting your statements... I'm understanding them. The fact that they don't stand up to ANY analysis is your own fault :roll:

And yes, I took philosophy :roll:, but here's something you may have missed: Opinions do NOT equal truth. You said that everyone has "their own truth," which is, of course, patently absurd.

 

when i said spirituality and all that could only be made up by man...did you read the word COULD...i was just giving out an idea...

You did not use the word could....... that may just have been the mushrooms expanding your mind :roll:

 

you agreed with me earlier in this topic that we should have an open mind about it.....that means considering more than we think to be true...not dismissing something because it sounds far-fetched...

I'm not dismissing because it "sounds far-fetched." I'm dismissing because it's silly and doesn't stand up to any sound reasoning. That's what you do with ideas like that......

 

i find it sad that you laugh and judge creativity...even cinematic

Creativity?? Where did "creativity" come from??? How am I "judging" your cinematic creativity??? :lol:

[rEdaSbLood 1]

pretentious, idiotic druggies who are sooooo convinced that they understand the world on such a higher plane than everyone else, simply because they have chemicals ravaging their brain

Im not pretentious,idiotic, or a druggy...I am not claiming any merit..

Also, man i am not idiotic..just lazy/tired and lack motivation to go into detail

I am not saying that i understand the world better than anyone else...what i would like to say though is that i have been into understading the world and all that WAY BEFORE drugs...

 

And you can actually judge when your mind is in fact impaired by drugs? Sorry, but NO ONE knows that limit, because one of the things being affected is that perception itself. Frankly, if those drugs were actually that harmless, they wouldn't be illegal.

Well, after taking the drugs more than once you start to understand how your body reacts to it..and how you handle it..so therefore you, through comparison and trial and error, determine your tollerance..which leads to the ability to moderate certain drugs..

Also, some drugs are illegal because of conspiracy..but thats another topic

 

Opinions do NOT equal truth

They do if you are any part relativist..which i am part

 

You did not use the word could....... that may just have been the mushrooms expanding your mind

Well thats what i intended to use...sometimes people get caught up in things and niglect to keep focus

 

How am I "judging" your cinematic creativity???

i didnt mean MINE...i meant creativity in general including cinematic creativity...i know movies are just for money but i myself believe there is a creative mind behind most movies...esp. the ones i mentioned...

 

im a big fan of quality movies...

 

and if having clouded and scattered opinions means being open-minded then so be it...i accept either :lol:

 

The mysteries of the universe are more complex than humans can understand..all we can do is succeed/attempt to classify and clarify the universal enigmas....

 

^^ that is what ive been meaning to say the whole time...pardon me for ranting ive had trouble being able to let some pent-up physical energy out today 8)

[GeneralZ 0]

ahh....another bware argument war....

 

fire the page long argument missiles!

[BWare 0]

Im not pretentious,idiotic, or a druggy...I am not claiming any merit.. Also, man i am not idiotic..just lazy/tired and lack motivation to go into detail

Hehe, fair enough. I was generalizing about people who use drugs to "clear their minds" or "think more clearly"..... which is ALL a load of crap. I know you're not totally like that

Well, after taking the drugs more than once you start to understand how your body reacts to it..and how you handle it..so therefore you, through comparison and trial and error, determine your tollerance..which leads to the ability to moderate certain drugs..

So..... you learn to take them up to the point where they don't kill you. Really dude, there is no possible way for you to judge how they're affecting you mentally. Psychoactive drugs like that have actually been known to cause permanent chemical imbalance in the brain in the long run. Basically, they can literally drive you to the point of insanity. So...... I'm not a big fan.

Also, some drugs are illegal because of conspiracy..but thats another topic

Oh dear lord no... don't even start with that conspiracy theory nonsense. There is literally NO POSSIBLE WAY that you could convince me of even a possible conspiracy about, say, why marijuana is illegal. But I can come up with plenty of reasons why it is and should be illegal (that don't involve aliens, crop circles, and the Cuban Mafia :wink:).

They do if you are any part relativist..which i am part

Relativism is just not an intellectually sound position, period. If you're "part" relativist, then to what extent?

Well thats what i intended to use...sometimes people get caught up in things and niglect to keep focus

fair enough :wink:

i didnt mean MINE...i meant creativity in general including cinematic creativity...i know movies are just for money but i myself believe there is a creative mind behind most movies...esp. the ones i mentioned...

Of course there is! You're preaching to the choir dude. I LOVE movies like that.... but I also remember that they're simply creations of Hollywood, and really not all that serious or even legitimate. I appreciate them, but to let them shape my thoughts and actions and views on the world would be downright stupid.

and if having clouded and scattered opinions means being open-minded then so be it...i accept either :lol:

Alright dude.... but that sounds like an intellectual copout :wink:

The mysteries of the universe are more complex than humans can understand..all we can do is succeed/attempt to classify and clarify the universal enigmas....

That is true. Of course, some of us believe that the creator of all this reveals himself to us through both general and special revelation, and in so doing pulls away the shroud of those mysteries.... but that's another point for another time :wink:

^^ that is what ive been meaning to say the whole time...pardon me for ranting ive had trouble being able to let some pent-up physical energy out today 8)

Quite alright. Just lay off the poison mushrooms man :wink:

 

 

 

ahh....another bware argument war....

 

fire the page long argument missiles!

You know, I really am a sucker for these things... and I apologize.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

If you're "part" relativist, then to what extent?

well to make it short...im only part because not everything is relative...like sugar exists no matter what people think...DUH...im a relativist when it comes to the unknown..also to some extent ethics and metaphysics

 

I LOVE movies like that.... but I also remember that they're simply creations of Hollywood, and really not all that serious or even legitimate. I appreciate them, but to let them shape my thoughts and actions and views on the world would be downright stupid.

yea i remember that they are simply creative artworks...but i do consider how and why the 'artist' came up with such storyies...and i dont let them shape my views and actions...but i do set them free to inspire, to incite question, and so on..

 

Alright dude.... but that sounds like an intellectual copout

well about being open-minded, but in your eyes scattered, ...i am simply open to entertain new ideas..therefore when i am unsure of something..i do not always assume.....being open-minded is all about receptiveness..which you have not displayed too well..but to a good extent :wink:

 

Just lay off the poison mushrooms man

there has been studys on it and i have read up alot on them...and i have also tried them 4-5 times...and i am mentally stable...more so than people who havent done them...and i have intelligent friends who can vouch for that...not that it makes a difference.......

 

You know, I really am a sucker for these things

so m i....im up for an intellectual convo 95% of the time...

 

NOW I GOTO SLEEP ENOUGH FOR ONE DAY>>>

[Masked Shah 5]

Hey I believe in God... but I believe god made us with evolution...

 

"God took the part of the earth and shape and molded it into man"

 

that was evolution I honestly believe....

 

I believe in intelligent design we were made by a god... but by evolution (God's tool).

 

I think of God more a a scientist and math teacher, but do not believe in divine intervention... This would make sense, God doesn't want to spoil findings if he intervines... so he doesn't. The result of the world suffering isn't the fault of God or a devil, it our own damn fault... and we got to clean our own damn messes up (feed Africa, stop tryanny, stop polution, stop war) Hell! God ain't gonna do it for us. If we're advnce to start the troubles we make, we're advance enough to stop them.

 

I do not believe we should teach IT in the classroom....

You have to come up with your own opinions and thoughts free of influence... period.

[Acerz492 1]

HE SPEAKS!!

 

Nice to see you again Shah. :wink:

 

ahh....another bware argument war....

 

fire the page long argument missiles!

 

I've already got a special something to protect us from these page long arguement missiles. It's called ignorance.

 

You know, I really am a sucker for these things... and I apologize.

 

You're forgiven.

 

So... would you people who believe in the latter view STOP calling the legitimate opposing viewpoint "a load of rubbish?" You don't have the authority to do that.

 

Although here you're not. I can call ID a load of rubbish if I want to. :roll: Yeesh.

[BWare 0]

well to make it short...im only part because not everything is relative...like sugar exists no matter what people think...DUH...im a relativist when it comes to the unknown..also to some extent ethics and metaphysics

Fair enough, but don't you think that if what you know for certain is absolute, then the things just outside your understanding are relative? Why would the solidity of the universe stop arbitrarily at your understanding? I completely understand opening your mind to new and opposing ideas, but not to the point where your brain falls out :wink:

 

Although here you're not. I can call ID a load of rubbish if I want to. :roll: Yeesh.

Like I said Acerz... you just don't have the authority to do it with any credibility. It's obnoxious, argumentative, and ignorant. So..... go ahead if you really want to :roll:

If you disagree, that's great... but if you just stoop to calling it a "load of rubbish" without so much as a single point against it, you're just being childish.

 

Hey I believe in God... but I believe god made us with evolution...

"God took the part of the earth and shape and molded it into man"

that was evolution I honestly believe....

That is exactly what ID teaches.

I think of God more a a scientist and math teacher, but do not believe in divine intervention... This would make sense, God doesn't want to spoil findings if he intervines... so he doesn't.

You have me up till this point. I believe in divine intervention as far as the Bible is concerned, but in principle I'm completely with you.

The result of the world suffering isn't the fault of God or a devil, it our own damn fault...

Hm... I half agree with you here. I believe that there are supernatural forces at war, but not to the paranoid extent that they're responsible for every one of our hardships. Yes, most of it is "our own damn fault."

I do not believe we should teach IT in the classroom....

Now why is that? Seriously, if you believe it makes sense and is a sound alternative to "things just kinda happened," then why in the hell wouldn't you expose children's minds to a legitimate opposing viewpoint? To deny its teaching is indoctrination.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

Why would the solidity of the universe stop arbitrarily at your understanding?

what do you mean?...and if i am right about what you do mean...i said it in one of my posts that the universe is beyond human comprehension

[Masked Shah 5]

Now why is that? Seriously, if you believe it makes sense and is a sound alternative to "things just kinda happened," then why in the hell wouldn't you expose children's minds to a legitimate opposing viewpoint? To deny its teaching is indoctrination.

 

This is why...

 

People as individuals, are clever, logical, sane...

 

People when gathered as a group, are like cattle... easily controlled and easy to influence to a tainted idea (look at Nazis and the Communists).

 

To teach the class a certain way a certain person see the world... taints the mind, and keeps it closed.

 

Scenerio: not saying the preachers are evil (most are good people), but using one as an example of tainted influence...

 

Ever go to a sermon in church? Let's say you go to a church where the Preacher is Homophobic and has a seethering hatred of gays. The preacher is someone in charge of their spiritual growth so no one will question him, even if he twists the Bible into meaning what he wants it to mean.

When the Preacher talks about homosexuals, he'll influence and teach the hatred to others by warping the Bible text into meaning it's right to kill gays.... It wouldn't just stop there...

Because people go to the outside world, and practice what they learned.

 

And when you open the paper and see that a punk kid entered a gay bar, and opens fire on innocent people... You can see where tainted influence comes to play....

 

Self ideals and hatred can be pushed and taught, the preacher could very well teach the church to hate different races by warping the words of the Bible to mean what he wants them to mean.

 

The same could be done with teach IT in the classroom... or anything of religious, or ethic value...

 

A teacher could do the same with ethics and religion warping it to what serves them...

 

This is why great care is taken to this subject...

 

I rather a child discover God with logic, rather be told "This is how the world is". It deny's their freedom of choice... to be different...

 

I don't a world full of Mask Shahs or Bwares... I rather have the free thinkers and different people...

 

That is true freedom...

[Alphabear 11]

Shah hit the nail on the head there

[GeneralZ 0]

u mean this?:

 

[Masked Shah 5]

Yes, just like that...

 

exactly like that..

[Acerz492 1]

I think Shah's getting evil thoughts...:wink:

[rEdaSbLood 1]

freedom is a big word...id say what you said is educational freedom...

 

but then again that ties into much bigger things...

 

we're social..animals....but i think its beyond human nature to "follow the herd"...we're in an age of individuality...for the most part

[Masked Shah 5]

You'd think that...

 

but think about grouping beyond just political parties...

 

-Concerts (M Manson gather a crowd of the sickest freaks that hail in unison during songs)

-Church (Heavy with influence, always look for more sheep ... in mean people)

-TV Shows can sometimes eminate herd behavior... (look at the Oprah fans buy the Oprah book of the month)

-Yes even boards and forums...

 

Lemme give another example...

 

let's say three members decided to treat one person like trash, and say things reflecting his character... "He's no good, he cheats during games"

 

How is it going to be before all the forums treats him like trash...

You wouldn't treat him like trash cus you wanted to, it's because you are part of the group of friends who share same interest... and you would fall right in.

 

If Oprah hadn't convinced you of the human herd, then look at other group swayed by one person a "sheprd" if you will...

 

700 club, convinces people to give up some cash to "God"... there's suckers out there that actually give them money.

 

or perhaps... The whole Jihad movement could be blamed on human herding...

 

Fact of the matter is, it is who we are... Mankind will always herd, and become blinded following their leader(s)...

 

So ask yourself next time in the midst of other people, "do these people influence me to become something I'm not?" and "Why do I hang out with these people, if I'm going to disagree with them?"

[rEdaSbLood 1]

ive asked those questions..haha

 

i consider you and i...individuals...as many other forum members i guess

 

those questions you asked are important yo

 

cuz its not a bad thing to follow the herd unless its contrary to what you truely want....i think

 

individuality is SO FUN how couldnt anyone like it!?

 

anyone ever see garden state...when natalie does that wierd thing in her bedroom?? i liked tthat..she hada good point

[Masked Shah 5]

Hey HEY!!!

 

Herding is only bad when you are part of it....

 

leading it is another thing...

 

Leans back and rests his feet on the back of a Shodirkdirka rebel, draws his gun and orders another rebel to fetch him a drink

 

oh yes, very pleasing...

[rEdaSbLood 1]

HEY DONT BOSS ME AROUND! :shock: 8)