Personal Ethics

[Cygnus X-1 12]

to be humble is to realise that you alone cannot do it all, you do not know it all, and there are others who are smarter and know more than you. Approach things with an open mind. Be willing to accept change, but dont let yourself be run over.

 

ect ect :wink:

 

The Bible isnt as easy to understand as many people seem to think, but then again, its not that bad, after all wee little 4 year olds learn and memorise verses and their meanings.

[BWare 0]

So RK, have you completely abandoned your previous points? :?

 

but i cant base my whole value system on a book...it doesnt feel right...and i dont think my ethics and values will EVER stay the same..they should evolve with my life and mind..no?

If they are continually "evolving," swayed by your relative moods and own selfish desires, then they are no good to you at all. The point of morality is to hold you to a higher standard that you CAN'T follow alone. Morals should never be based on what you're feeling at any particular moment dude. If your morals aren't absolute, then they will never stand the tests of real life, and you will be a victim to your own impulses. In short, relative, "evolving" morals are essentially useless.

 

Your damend right they should -- which btw,. has happened to some small degree in regards to the bible. i mean, are non whites and women held in servitude? do we still sell our daughters? Do we kill people for not keeping to the "sabbath"?

You have completely missed the point here dude. The Bible is part history you know. When you look at the story of, for instance, the Jews wiping out an entire civilization, the point isn't that we're supposed to do the same :roll:

The Bible is not about the great people of God... it's about the great God of people. That's the key difference. The PEOPLE you read about in the Bible are usually a complete mess! You've missed the point here.

 

To be blunt- i found it funny s***. Just WHY would i be humble when approaching religion?

If you are actually asking this question with a straight face, then you're already hopeless :roll:

You have absolutely NO RIGHT to be arrogant. In the face of issues like this, we are nothing but tiny piles of trash. You need to understand that and GET OVER YOURSELF to hope to gain any understanding :roll:

Arrogance from you, especially when it's apparent that don't understand any of these issues very deeply, is the worst possible thing for your understanding and learning while looking at these topics.

 

Those tell me theres more than just a small amount screwy when it intails the bible, so you bet yer ass im gonna question hard, question often, doubt like biatch and feel free to tear it apart to my satisfaction.

This is fine if done intelligently and thoughtfully, but from your attitude I can tell that you'd relish attacking it and making people mad a bit too much :roll:

Healthy questioning and criticism is good, but wanting to "tear it apart" is just childish idiocy.

 

If people dun like it? too bad. if "god" (to which ive seen absolutely ZILCH to convince me of) dont like it either, he/she/it/they can come down here and tell me in person. THEN PROVE IT.

Do you actually think that God needs to listen to you? :roll:

God has plainly revealed himself through general revelation, a la nature, our own souls, etc. Then there's that little issue of Jesus Christ, God incarnate, to deal with... But if the sheer magnificence of the universe alone doesn't convince you, then you would be too stubborn to believe even if God himself lowered himself to actually appear before you, an insignificant piece of garbage (like all of us). It just isn't his job to satisfy our whims and demands of "proof" :roll:

 

To be meek, in my mind, invokes possible submission, then slavery -- something i dont agree with paticularly much.

You once again are using loaded, absolute terms as the basis of your thinking, which is horrifically stupid, to put it nicely.

Of COURSE submission is involved when dealing with GOD. Man, if you can't get over your own over-inflated ego while dealing with GOD HIMSELF, then how on earth could you ever even get a job and deal with a boss in real life? You must be a real pleasure to work with... someone who thinks he can tell God what to do :lol:

But holy cow dude...... submission is just a part of life. This is especially true with a kid who spends his time posting on a video game website (myself included) :lol:

 

Have i made my point yet?

What "point?" :?

[rEdaSbLood 1]

BEWARE YOU QUOTED THE WRONG PERSON....I DID NOT WRITE ANY OF THAT...IT WAS rk..... :roll:

 

If they are continually "evolving," swayed by your relative moods and own selfish desires, then they are no good to you at all

i said "with my life and mind," not emotions

[RKCoon 0]

Ya know, when i see items like above, i tend to really disregard any credibility of the poster. i mean seriously, if you cant take the ten seconds to get the right damned poster, whos to say your taking any time at all to review the points i or anyone else make when questioning your base? i clearly state where my flaws are, but youve yet to admit to any of yours. sorry but maybe ya oughta backup and reload.

[BWare 0]

BEWARE YOU QUOTED THE WRONG PERSON....I DID NOT WRITE ANY OF THAT...IT WAS rk..... :roll:

Whoops, simple mistake

....fixed

 

i said "with my life and mind," not emotions

Whatever dude... same thing really. If you're willing to give on them at all, then they just won't stand up to real world pressures. They'll "evolve" at very opportune moments :roll:

 

Ya know, when i see items like above, i tend to really disregard any credibility of the poster.

Are you serious??? Man you are the most fragile debater ever! After my exhaustive response to your points, you "disregard" me because I copied and pasted the wrong tag?? Wow :roll:

 

i mean seriously, if you cant take the ten seconds to get the right damned poster, whos to say your taking any time at all to review the points i or anyone else make when questioning your base?

It's not about "taking ten seconds" to get the right poster dude, it was copying and pasting the wrong tag. Calm down, it has nothing to do with anything :roll: :roll:

 

i clearly state where my flaws are, but youve yet to admit to any of yours. sorry but maybe ya oughta backup and reload.

You actually haven't "clearly stated" what your flaws are. You haven't stated much clearly, to be totally honest. What flaws of mine are you talking about? If they do exist, I'm not afraid to acknowledge them, but what specifically are you talking about?

 

 

Also, how about responding to the substantive points here? You seem to want to nitpick the coding of my post and not do any actual debating :roll:

[rEdaSbLood 1]

oooooooooooooooo he went there...yea he diiiid :wink:

 

and i didnt mean that my ethics and values would change dramatically and shortly/easily...just meant over time i will learn more and my perspective and all will morph...no?i think everyone's does... :lol:

 

now as for core values...of course those wont change...

[Masked Shah 5]

i believe in what the bible imposes as the truest values of humanity..somewhat

 

All religions play the part of moral guide and laws that guide society...

Nietzsche would agree with you, but not in the fashion you'd think.

 

Nietzsche would say "God is Dead", but he doesn't mean that mighty God is killed or dead. What Nietzsche is pointing out is that people are coming closer to abandoning their religion...

 

As more people abandon religion, who will keep Christainity, Judism, Islam alive? No followers means no religion.

So the "God is Dead" serves as warning...

 

A warning that the masses are not ready to act on their own free will, and religion is still needed in the world.

 

If everyone was to find out there was no God or heaven, this would be the great disaster Nietzsche also mentioned. Riots would break out, laws would be meaningless and people would suffer as the world plunged into hell.

 

In all I may not be Christian, but I am not against the religion...

People are not strong enough to sustain their integrity on their own.

So I celebrate we have religions like Christainity, Islam, and Judism...

They reflect the nature of fair play, and compassion at times.

 

So as a humanist, I seek those things reguardless of what you may believe... as long as it serves the benefit of man.

 

Hats off to Christainity...

 

 

http://forums.philosophyforums.com/

Philosophy Forum I visit....

 

http://forums.philosophyforums.com/thread/19069

More on anti-Nihilism

 

EDIT:

I would post my personal thoughts on ethics, but some nameless board-member would probably spend more time attacking my views.

 

Discussion is meant for listening to other points or thoughts, not for quick ridicule or put down.

 

Locke would say you'd need to look at an issue in other viewpoints.

 

I hate to go through another session where some kid decided to attack my intelligence and my personal ethics, just because he feels threatened by a point that could shatter the way he thinks about the world.

 

I'm not here to cut down view points, but I am not here to receive it either. You can not expect to win me over to your side by calling me dumb.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

word...I just baught a book byt Nietzsche called "THus spake Zarathurstra"....for philosophy 101...lol i took 104(ethics) before 101 :?

 

i read almost all of Marcus Aurelius' "meditations"..i think its pretty good....

 

i agree alot with masked shah...

 

If everyone was to find out there was no God or heaven, this would be the great disaster Nietzsche also mentioned. Riots would break out, laws would be meaningless and people would suffer as the world plunged into hell.

 

yea well everyone aint no "super man" as, who was it, nietzsche?

 

i agree the majority of the world would feel no purpose without religion...

it provides hope when there isnt anything else...

 

anyone know any symbols that represent KARMA and/or something similar? i wanna geta Tattoo

[Masked Shah 5]

Thanks Red

anyone know any symbols that represent KARMA and/or something similar? i wanna geta Tattoo

 

I was going to get a tattoo of the Tree of Sephiroth, but had a change of heart... tattoos, a lot of things can go wrong.

 

I wanted the Tree of Sephiroth, to serve as a reminder that ascending and coming closer to God requires steps and virtues.

 

As far as Karma, the only thing I can think of is the Yin Yang... I dunno. Hmmm...

[rEdaSbLood 1]

hmm yea...

 

about the tree...christian god?

 

or a god in general..like just divinity?

[Masked Shah 5]

hmm yea...

 

about the tree...christian god?

 

or a god in general..like just divinity?

 

The Tree symbol is a jewish concept within the Kabbalah of Judaism and it was later adopted by some Christians.

 

I wanted it in God in general...

[Cygnus X-1 12]

how about a 6 ointed star on the upper left, a crecent moon on the upper right, and a cross on the bottom.

 

Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Maybe combine them somehow. Throw in a yin-yang for good measure i suppose.

[BWare 0]

Sounds like a nice generic grab bag for those who just can't make up their minds.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

BWare...to be ok with uncertainty and be aware of it...is outstanding

 

human nature is to fear the uncertain...so those who dont....are 'special'

 

say what you want..if you dont know what i mean then...eat me :wink:

 

it takes good judgement to decide what is simply trivial and what is not

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Sounds like a nice generic grab bag for those who just can't make up their minds.

 

or something for those who accept other ideas besides their own :wink:

[RKCoon 0]

*Hands the point to Cygnus* Nice Shot. :lol:

[BWare 0]

or something for those who accept other ideas besides their own :wink:

Why accept something that you don't believe is right? Sounds pretty spineless to me. Tolerate it, yes, but not accept.

 

If you accept every idea out there, then you are an idiot. Simple as that.

[Acerz492 1]

Why accept something that you don't believe is right? Sounds pretty spineless to me. Tolerate it, yes, but not accept.

 

If you accept every idea out there, then you are an idiot. Simple as that.

 

I couldn't agree more there mate.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

maybe cyg doesnt care :?:

[RKCoon 0]

Perhaps then, Bware, the idea is to Accept the idea that not everyone is going to agree with you or yours or your religion, and no amount of speaking is going to change that. Further, perhaps the idea is to Accept that no one is going to change just to suit an old religion -- and will defend thier right to beleive as such. That, I think, is the key element to accept.

 

That being said, it is alaready blatantly clear that most religions wont accept this. my question, for you and everyone else here - Can YOU accept that others will be different, and leave it at that, or are you going to be like those peons that kill for THE most stupid reason ever in existance -- aka religion?

[BWare 0]

Perhaps then, Bware, the idea is to Accept the idea that not everyone is going to agree with you or yours or your religion, and no amount of speaking is going to change that.

Then perhaps they're being closed-minded?

The whole idea of debate and the public forum on ideas like this is to, in fact, persuade people that you're right!

 

Further, perhaps the idea is to Accept that no one is going to change just to suit an old religion -- and will defend thier right to beleive as such. That, I think, is the key element to accept.

No no no. You simply can not accept other points of view that you see are blatantly wrong. You don't kill over it, and you don't hate them for believing it, but you do what you can to show them what you believe, why you believe it, and yes, that they should change their minds. What's wrong with this? It's called debate!

 

That being said, it is alaready blatantly clear that most religions wont accept this.

Untrue.

 

my question, for you and everyone else here - Can YOU accept that others will be different, and leave it at that

Hell NO I won't leave it at that. Look how selfish that is! If you think you've found the answer, the meaning of life, then why would you keep it to yourself? You should want to tell everyone! You don't do it out of anger or hostility towards opposing viewpoints, but out of a desire for them to discover what you've discovered.

 

The problem with you is that you look at religions like some club you join. Until you understand that it's far deeper than a simple affiliation, you will never get it. You're completely and utterly in the dark here my friend.

 

or are you going to be like those peons that kill for THE most stupid reason ever in existance -- aka religion?

Religion is stupid, yes, but you seem unable to separate the religion from the spiritual beliefs. Religions fail because they become a man-centered power group. Those always go corrupt and fail. I'm personally talking about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ- something that transcends all religion. Religion is a completely man-made thing. People like you over-simplify this, and assume that all people who actually have core convictions and beliefs are willing to become modern day crusaders, slaying those who don't believe. Take a good long look at your point of view here dude. You are WAY off.

[RKCoon 0]

Then perhaps they're being closed-minded?

The whole idea of debate and the public forum on ideas like this is to, in fact, persuade people that you're right!

 

Perhaps BOTH sides are. either way, that is the truth about a debate - the peaceful diplomatic attempt to convince the other side your right.

 

No no no. You simply can not accept other points of view that you see are blatantly wrong. You don't kill over it, and you don't hate them for believing it, but you do what you can to show them what you believe, why you believe it, and yes, that they should change their minds. What's wrong with this? It's called debate!

 

True, i missworded that -- i did not mean to completely rule out peaceful discussion and debate, but what i WAS driving at, is the fact that much of whats going on today is that most of these brainless peons going around blowing **** up dont have that intellect to politely discuss and decently talk.

 

Untrue.

 

Eh?? Since WHEN has that been untrue?? the history of Christianity, Catholism, Muslim, hells you name it, virtually every "major, popular, long standing" religion has had its long past built on the blood suffering and murder of billions of people. Yaya, i keep hearing the age old excuse, "No, those peopel that committed such atrocities were acting outside the faith, and were not acting in accordance with said faith." BULLSH!T!! i actually took some time earlyer to not fully, but QUICKLY read the bible, the one your so damned defendant of. Mark Twain was damned right, its chock full of too many lies to count, more bloodshed and demanding of bloodshedding by its writers (oh, im sorry, "god") than any propoganda leaflet from history ive EVER read. i was quite thurourly disturbed when i set that damned thing down. Thats MY oppinion, MY take on it, and if a reasonably well educated 25 year old can come to that conclusion, why cant others? Well, they have. in ANY event, the point stands rather poignantly - if thats just in the Christian bible, just what all else is in other bibles?

 

Hell NO I won't leave it at that. Look how selfish that is! If you think you've found the answer, the meaning of life, then why would you keep it to yourself? You should want to tell everyone! You don't do it out of anger or hostility towards opposing viewpoints, but out of a desire for them to discover what you've discovered.

 

Again, i repeat -- i didnt mean to rule out decent, peaceful debate - just that very often that in modern history these differences are what bring much of bloodshed these days.

 

The problem with you is that you look at religions like some club you join. Until you understand that it's far deeper than a simple affiliation, you will never get it. You're completely and utterly in the dark here my friend.

 

Ive had this thrown at me a LOT in the past, and the response is almost instinct now. I take the time, i pause, i ANALYSE what people would have me be a part of, as my spirit, "soul" as some put it, What makes me ME, is perhaps the nearest dearest thing to me of all, and theres no way this side of Hades id give that to ANY thing without being damned certain of it. If people find sucha thought offensive, then thats a good warning bell to me -- if they dont want me analising, seems to me they may have something to hide.

 

Religion is stupid, yes, but you seem unable to separate the religion from the spiritual beliefs. Religions fail because they become a man-centered power group. Those always go corrupt and fail. I'm personally talking about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ- something that transcends all religion. Religion is a completely man-made thing. People like you over-simplify this, and assume that all people who actually have core convictions and beliefs are willing to become modern day crusaders, slaying those who don't believe. Take a good long look at your point of view here dude. You are WAY off.

 

Ahhuh. as i said above, im analising it before i even consider sucha thing -- because as i see it, the guy got shafted by his own people, ie those he tried to "save", and got hung out to dry. that instance in history has caused much of the bloodshed that his worlds seen in the last 2000+ years -- and i personally would like to see why. Further, I do beleive many people of many religions -- Muslim, Christian, etc -- are good people, and not out to harm anyone, hell most find the idea of violence abhorrent. thats all fine and good -- then i run into zealots -- or even more than somewhat overbearing mouthpeices -- and such instances give me plenty reason for pause and examination. Finally, i may be way off -- but in YOUR view, not mine. Dont B!itch me out for it if you dont want it thrown right back in your face, with interest. ;) Finally -- Spirituality can exist, mostly, without religion -- but religion desperately requires spirituallity to survive. the idea, i might add, of giving your spirit to any outside being, god or otherwise, isnt spirituality, as i see it -- its religion. Spirituality comes from within and stays there, only let out in what you do with it.

[BWare 0]

Perhaps BOTH sides are. either way' date=' that is the truth about a debate - the peaceful diplomatic attempt to convince the other side your right.[/quote']

How does presenting an idea make one side "closed-minded?" :?

 

the fact that much of whats going on today is that most of these brainless peons going around blowing s*** up dont have that intellect to politely discuss and decently talk.

Very much agreed.

 

 

Eh?? Since WHEN has that been untrue?? the history of Christianity' date=' Catholism, Muslim, hells you name it, virtually every "major, popular, long standing" religion has had its long past built on the blood suffering and murder of billions of people.[/quote']

Another typical anti-religion rant. Ugh. I've never understood what these are supposed to prove, besides an illogical emotional reaction against religion in general.

 

Yaya' date=' i keep hearing the age old excuse, "No, those peopel that committed such atrocities were acting outside the faith, and were not acting in accordance with said faith." BULLSH!T!![/quote']

Really? That's pretty damn arrogant of you.

 

i actually took some time earlyer to not fully' date=' but QUICKLY read the bible, the one your so damned defendant of. Mark Twain was damned right, its chock full of too many lies to count, more bloodshed and demanding of bloodshedding by its writers (oh, im sorry, "god") than any propoganda leaflet from history ive EVER read.[/quote']

So according to your exhaustive analysis of the Bible, you've come up with some "lies?" Oh do share! It's funny, because hundreds of thousands of lifetimes of dedicated study and analysis over 2000 years haven't turned up one! Damn you're good. And you didn't even read the Greek or Hebrew! I must say I'm impressed.

 

i was quite thurourly disturbed when i set that damned thing down. Thats MY oppinion' date=' MY take on it, and if a reasonably well educated 25 year old can come to that conclusion, why cant others?[/quote']

Maybe others did more than take a cursory glance over what's arguably the most complex and powerful document in history and dismiss it with an arrogance that would make Donald Trump blush. Frankly, I wouldn't at ALL consider your conclusion here educated.

 

Well' date=' they have. in ANY event, the point stands rather poignantly - if thats just in the Christian bible, just what all else is in other bibles?[/quote']

Other "bibles?" Again I tell you that there is ONE Bible. But yes, other religious texts can be pretty scary. The Quran, for instance, orders the slaying of the infidel (aka us). Peaceful Muslims argue that it doesn't technically, or choose to follow the passages that contradict it in that jumbled mess, but tell me... where in the Bible, besides many admittedly bloody stories (that's history, deal with it), does it order anything similar? If anything, the bloody stories are a testament to its utter, gritty realism.

 

Again' date=' i repeat -- i didnt mean to rule out decent, peaceful debate - just that very often that in modern history these differences are what bring much of bloodshed these days.[/quote']

How so in the civilized world? Good, productive religious debate has been going on for many, many years in America for instance with no bloodshed of any kind. What exactly are you talking about? :?

 

Ahhuh. as i said above' date=' im analising it before i even consider sucha thing -- because as i see it, the guy got shafted by his own people, ie those he tried to "save", and got hung out to dry. that instance in history has caused much of the bloodshed that his worlds seen in the last 2000+ years -- and i personally would like to see why. [/quote']

What is that supposed to mean?? If you're being serious, you really just have no idea what was going on there. You've totally missed the point!!

Also, how has Christ's death caused more bloodshed than the world has ever seen? I'd really like to see you back that up, because it just isn't true. Besides, even if it was true, then what would it prove? Does bloodshed automatically make something false? This is really strange logic dude.

 

Further' date=' I do beleive many people of many religions -- Muslim, Christian, etc -- are good people, and not out to harm anyone, hell most find the idea of violence abhorrent. thats all fine and good -- then i run into zealots -- or even more than somewhat overbearing mouthpeices -- and such instances give me plenty reason for pause and examination. [/quote']

There is NOTHING wrong with examination. Christianity- ACTUAL Christianity- is an intellectual pursuit, and welcomes examination and criticism. One thing I don't get here though is you equating murderous zealots with loudmouths. Good lord dude... I don't know if I'd lump those 2 together :roll:

 

the idea' date=' i might add, of giving your spirit to any outside being, god or otherwise, isnt spirituality, as i see it -- its religion. Spirituality comes from within and stays there, only let out in what you do with it.[/quote']

You're just playing semantics there dude. I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean :?

[rEdaSbLood 1]

Can YOU accept that others will be different, and leave it at that, or are you going to be like those peons that kill for THE most stupid reason ever in existance -- aka religion?

i can myself accept that others will be different...but i wont simply leave it at that.....and i would not say so my self that religion is THE most stupid reason...there are much stupider reasons...but of course religion can get out of hand..which is sad..

 

If you think you've found the answer, the meaning of life, then why would you keep it to yourself? You should want to tell everyone! You don't do it out of anger or hostility towards opposing viewpoints, but out of a desire for them to discover what you've discovered

well the meaning of life in this situation should be factual...otherwise it's still just a plain belief...

 

The problem with you is that you look at religions like some club you join. Until you understand that it's far deeper than a simple affiliation, you will never get it. You're completely and utterly in the dark here my friend.

well i wouldn't say he's in the dark completely...but he's not "in the club" :wink: ........and i agree that religion is beyond affiliation, as well as basic metaphysics..and so on or w.e

 

BWare--it would be SO nice for you to act less like you are ALWAYS right and that what you say is ALWAYS true 100% of the time..

People like you over-simplify this, and assume that all people who actually have core convictions and beliefs are willing to become modern day crusaders, slaying those who don't believe. Take a good long look at your point of view here dude. You are WAY off.

sounds mean when you say "people LIKE you."

 

theres no way this side of Hades id give that to ANY thing without being damned certain of it. If people find sucha thought offensive, then thats a good warning bell to me -- if they dont want me analising, seems to me they may have something to hide.

i agree...true

 

well..this debate is getting really close to becoming a religious dispute...if it isn't already 8)

 

wish it was beyond religion and anti-religion...(BWare and RKCoon)

[BWare 0]

BWare--it would be SO nice for you to act less like you are ALWAYS right and that what you say is ALWAYS true 100% of the time..

But aren't I though? :wink: just kidding

 

Why is it such a problem that I think I'm right? :?

I'm not being arrogant- I'm just confident in what I believe. Sorry if you're offended by confidence, but I really don't see why you would be (bear in mind that confidence is very different than arrogance. I am HATE arrogance, but respect confidence)