Personal Ethics

[BWare 0]

why not something safe?

 

i believe in:

abstinence b4 marriage

no infidelity....stay faithful to the wife

be a good father and dont be abusive

 

 

if u disagree with any of these......bware will lay the smackdown on ya

HELL yeah

Nah, I don't expect everyone to believe what I believe. I think (in some cases know) that I'm right, and will defend it, but won't force it on anyone. But yes, GeneralZ and I see completely eye to eye on this one.

 

Meh. I'll plow some girls before I get married. Whoopdee****. :roll:

You will? Doesn't it take 2 to agree on that? :lol: :wink:

(very romantic, by the way...)

 

 

A lot of this can be summed up in one old adage: "Why buy the cow when the milk's free?" Sex outside of marriage cheapens marriage and is harmful to society. DON'T START TELLING ME that it's been happening forever, because I'm not stupid or naive enough to think it hasn't. But what's different now is the NORMALIZATION of it and its widespread acceptance. There's no longer any shame in it. It's even glorified in many cases! It's just not a good or healthy thing. Sex should be a component of a lifelong relationship- not something recreational or casual.

But hey, that's just my take on things :wink:

[RKCoon 0]

LMAO!! no worries sonic, as long as ya ccan admit a screw up, all ish good. XD

 

anywho. as far as i go, lessee how to sum up.... i have my own set of beleifs, i nessence, dont cause harm to others first, dont screw up this world any more than it is, but if anyone threatens me or mine, deal with them. brutaly.

[BWare 0]

Man, I have to say how much I love these folks who have their "own unique set of ethics, unconfined by conventional blah blah blah." Here's a bit of news for ya: NO SET OF ETHICS IS NEW, ORIGINAL, OR UNIQUE TO YOU! There is a religion, cult, arts club, or whatever, a group of some kind out there that thinks EXACTLY like you. These issues, while complex, are not so multi-faceted that you can't describe them specifically. You aren't any weaker for naming the group that you most closely align yourself with, and none of us are impressed with your "enlightened, independent" thinking. Sheesh...

 

But yeah, that would have been one crazy conspiracy if RKCoon and redasblood were one and the same :lol:

[RKCoon 0]

Man, I have to say how much I love these folks who have their "own unique set of ethics, unconfined by conventional blah blah blah." Here's a bit of news for ya: NO SET OF ETHICS IS NEW, ORIGINAL, OR UNIQUE TO YOU! There is a religion, cult, arts club, or whatever, a group of some kind out there that thinks EXACTLY like you. These issues, while complex, are not so multi-faceted that you can't describe them specifically. You aren't any weaker for naming the group that you most closely align yourself with, and none of us are impressed with your "enlightened, independent" thinking. Sheesh...

 

But yeah, that would have been one crazy conspiracy if RKCoon and redasblood were one and the same :lol:

 

 

Oh i dunno, theres other things too, as far as i go. for example, im all fore gay rights, marriage and so on. i agree with EQUAL representation, freedom of speech, religion and so on. I dont consider myself racist, i jsut dont like the mass of humanity. And no, i wouldnt be any weaker for saying what im closest to, but i prefer saying it in my own time.

 

Oh, and it would not be the first time theres been some form of massive conspiracy involving me. ask me what happened on EZBoard(Whore) sometime :lol:

[TheBlackOut 7]

No abusive? If my child acted like that German kid I would hit him over and over again. :?

[RKCoon 0]

Me ya mean? oh id kick his scrawny ass. force only when warranted tho.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

to BWARE

 

my ethics and ideas as well as probably yours...are unique...cuz they are ours..and we got them the way WE did...and im sure noone thinks and reacts the same in EVERY situation with all types of details.......

 

alot of what i wrote here isnt unique...i wasnt the first to think it or live it or w/e...but what i wrote relative to my life is unique...

 

i duno how to explain it...its just a gut feeling...or maybe its the rice i had lol....jk

[Alphabear 11]

its hard to describe ethics with no tipic behind it. For instanc i agree with the church in some areas but not others. Every topic is unique no matter how similar they are.

[BWare 0]

Oh i dunno, theres other things too, as far as i go. for example, im all fore gay rights, marriage and so on. i agree with EQUAL representation, freedom of speech, religion and so on. I dont consider myself racist, i jsut dont like the mass of humanity.

Haha, same here actually. I guess we'd be considered "species-ists" :lol:

I'm actually with you here on everything, but a side note is needed for gay rights. I am 100 percent for gay rights, but please understand what a right is :wink:

 

And no, i wouldnt be any weaker for saying what im closest to, but i prefer saying it in my own time.

Yeah man, that's cool. I wasn't talking about you specifically (you seem bright and actually thoughtful). I was more referring to this whole movement of people who feel that they are above conventional wisdom (you know, stuff accumulated and refined over generations) with their own shallow, unenlightened insights. Those people drive me nuts.

 

Oh, and it would not be the first time theres been some form of massive conspiracy involving me. ask me what happened on EZBoard(Whore) sometime :lol:

Oh boy! Do tell :lol:

 

my ethics and ideas as well as probably yours...are unique...cuz they are ours..and we got them the way WE did...and im sure noone thinks and reacts the same in EVERY situation with all types of details.......

Oh I know man, and I see what you mean. I was just saying that generally your ethics and ideas fit into some mold. No matter how unique you may think something is, it has already been pored over by hundreds if not thousands of people with far more insight than you. I guess I'm basically pushing for humility here. No one knows 100 percent, and no idea is truly unique.

 

alot of what i wrote here isnt unique...i wasnt the first to think it or live it or w/e...but what i wrote relative to my life is unique...

Ah, exactly. And it's that personal relationship to it that can make a common idea unique. I see what you're saying.

[RKCoon 0]

Oh I know man, and I see what you mean. I was just saying that generally your ethics and ideas fit into some mold. No matter how unique you may think something is, it has already been pored over by hundreds if not thousands of people with far more insight than you. I guess I'm basically pushing for humility here. No one knows 100 percent, and no idea is truly unique.

 

True -- but id say using such generalisations can usually backfire. Me for example, the closest "faith" for lack of term that i fall into is Luciferian -- but then apon saying that name, how many of you are getting mental images of a devil worshipper? More than you folks like to admit to id bet. (tho, to split hairs, some do and some dont on THAT topic lmao)

 

As far as EZWhore goes, long story short i had a dissagreement with the owners of one board, and a ****load of drama later, they worked up a few other boards and got me banned from that paticular message board system. I got the last laugh, however, as the key person responsible for that lil incident is now my GF.

 

As a side note, id be interested in hearing what your concept of right is. Just morbidly curious *shot*

[BWare 0]

Me for example, the closest "faith" for lack of term that i fall into is Luciferian

Okay.... now that definitely warrants some explanation :?

 

As a side note, id be interested in hearing what your concept of right is. Just morbidly curious *shot*

That is a very broad question, but I suppose the answer lies with the moral law, which according to the Bible (my primary source for wisdom), is "written on our hearts." The natural law coincides with God's will, and anything that follows it is "right," and anything that goes against it is "wrong." The 10 Commandments are a good basic explanation of this. A VERY strong case can be made for it, as every civilization on earth has very similar morals and ethics (the differences are not as broad as you would think). CS Lewis did an incredible job exploring this topic in his lifetime, so if you're interested I'd recommend some of his written stuff. It's phenomenal.

All this is of course in direct contradiction to Locke's "tabula rasa," or blank slate point of view. I believe that we are all born with inherent knowledge of this universal moral law, and the evidence for it is very strong. No societies uphold murder or admire cowardice and selfishnes, or any other basic example of morals you can think of. So yeah, my answer to what's "right" is whatever lies within the natural law, and therefore God's will.

[RKCoon 0]

*grin* ok, ill see yoru bible and ten commandments, and raise with my own counter - Ever read the book, Devils Apocrypha, by Jon A De Vito? ive read most of it (havent gotten the whole book yet myself), and in paticular, one section within. in it, he claims to quote Lucifer/Satan (he was called by both in the bible i do beleive, was he not?) as he sits down and has a rather lengthy chat wit hCain after the latters expulsion from paradise.

 

The catch in this is, if you do some checking on the book and auther, youll find that originally, De Vito claimed to of translated this book from ancient tect, supposedly a counter to the bible. he later revieled that he made the whole damned thing up based on his own personal experiences and beleifs. now, the common arguement that i get from many, when i state this, is that its "not a "respected" text such as (insert bible here)". thats the whole reason i personally like it so much -- far as im concerned, thats al lthe bibles are anyway, older sure, but nothing more than books written by some wakkos eons ago.

 

Anyway back on track. the statements that were made in this, some 50+separate short comments, are the closest ive ever found, or rather, the best that describe to me my own base set of morals. like many other people do with thier bibles, or to an extent, military folk and thier various codes of conduct, i use this to fall back on if i need to sort something out.

 

as a side note, if ya want, i can email ya the statements, or ill post them up here/new topic for people to view.

[J-Fire_Man 0]

My mistake :oops:

The IPs do not match at all. When made that original post I had lots of tabs open in Firefox so I guess I got a bit confused, s*** I could have had the same tab open twice.

lol, sorry for starting all the mess. It was only one of my stupid opinion

[BWare 0]

*grin* ok, ill see yoru bible and ten commandments, and raise with my own counter

Your "counter" is a lie by a satanist? You're actually using this to counter the most widely read, studied, and verified work of literature in all of mankind's history? Alright dude, whatever you say.

 

in it, he claims to quote Lucifer/Satan (he was called by both in the bible i do beleive, was he not?) as he sits down and has a rather lengthy chat wit hCain after the latters expulsion from paradise.

Yeah... Lucifer or Satan was once the arch angel of heaven until he was banished. He now gets his kicks doing everything he can to counter God's will on earth where he is given a tight leash. Hence the spiritual warfare that's going on- good and evil and so forth.

 

The catch in this is, if you do some checking on the book and auther, youll find that originally, De Vito claimed to of translated this book from ancient tect, supposedly a counter to the bible. he later revieled that he made the whole damned thing up based on his own personal experiences and beleifs. now, the common arguement that i get from many, when i state this, is that its "not a "respected" text such as (insert bible here)".

Yes... it's a "common" argument because it RENDERS THE WHOLE DAMN THING COMPLETELY USELESS! Sheesh. Why don't you feel the same way? If it's completely a lie, then what good is it? How is it still credible in any way?

 

thats al lthe bibles are anyway, older sure, but nothing more than books written by some wakkos eons ago.

Are you serious? :shock:

You know, you seem pretty bright, but I don't know.... how much do you actually know about the Bible??

 

like many other people do with thier bibles, or to an extent, military folk and thier various codes of conduct, i use this to fall back on if i need to sort something out.

Again, you do realise that this is fiction and can do nothing to help you, right? :wink:

 

as a side note, if ya want, i can email ya the statements, or ill post them up here/new topic for people to view.

That would be interesting. Although I feel like I'd be wasting my time, it has piqued my curiosity. But just so you know, satanism is not a joke and is nothing to mess around with. Seriously.

[RKCoon 0]

*cracks knuckles* ok, lets see if we can hash this out then. To start with, i dont think i was quite specific enough; i meant that ,as far as personal ethics goes, i found that the one section of DA was what i found best suited me, and not the other various bibles out there. Next, as far as rendering De Vito's work useless -- i fail to see how in all honesty. What makes the bible, which in essense is as much, if not more, a collection of morales written by a group of men any more or less values than a set of the same written by one man in the current age? Lets keep in mind, that if you really wanna analyse any given bible, it takes vbery little effort indeed to locate a great deal if inequalities, contradictions, and indeed, things we today consider greatly absurd. As a direct historical document, the bibles, any of them you want really, have been translated, rewritten, modified and so on so many times over the last thousands of years as to, i would venture to state, render nigh on useless to begin with. in short -- have you seen an ORIGINAL bible, the actual "Authors copy" anyplace? i know i havent tho i am quite certain it was NOT written in 21st century english. How do we know that much of it is NOT fiction? sure, SOME of whats there has been proven -- but no where NEAR all.

 

Now, im going to prolly slit my own credibility in the throat here somewhat by stating, i have never once sat down and read the bible from cover to cover. that being said however, i have spent a great deal of time searching and researching various items both on and off the web, with one site in paticular being of great assistance to me --- www.skepticsannotatedbible.com. I dont profess to be the greatest philosofer or historian out there, but after going thru that paticular site, i have to say, theres an awful lot of items in that and other forms that ive only heard about, to say nothing of actually looking into, that leave me to wonder a base point -- if these people hold thier religions so highly, why the hell do they constantly contradict both each other and thier base faith? (as a side note, in my own personal experience, many of the right wingers ive ran across, when i questioned them, have never once did the same -- sit down and read thier bible from cover ot cover, while actually analising it.)

[BWare 0]

A couple things, RK...

 

First of all, you keep referring to the "bibles." I am here talking about the ONE BIBLE.

 

Lets keep in mind, that if you really wanna analyse any given bible, it takes vbery little effort indeed to locate a great deal if inequalities, contradictions, and indeed, things we today consider greatly absurd.

Name ONE example. Keep in mind that I've been trained as an apologist for most of my life and have in fact studied the Bible cover to cover very thoroughly and from every skeptical angle imaginable. I don't approach it with blind faith- I doubt and critcize. I know the arguments against the Bible, and I also know the gaping flaws in them. Everything I've learned and studied only strengthens my belief that the Bible is basically a perfect document. When considering the vastly different times, cultures, and people through which it was written, and then the sheer consistency of its message, it's hard not to be completely blown away.

 

As a direct historical document, the bibles, any of them you want really, have been translated, rewritten, modified and so on so many times over the last thousands of years as to, i would venture to state, render nigh on useless to begin with.

Aw, I'm disappointed RK. I expected better of you! This is a very tired and misunderstood point, and frankly I'm pretty sick of responding to it. But okay, here goes my robotic response....

The Bible is the single most verified and unaltered historical document in mankind's history. Ever. There have been entire civilizations that have devoted their lives to protecting it and preserving it, and it has been passed down in written form for over 2,000 years, yielding exponentially more manuscripts than any other document ever.

Well guess what? All that hard work throughout the millenia must have payed off, because even now when ancient manuscripts are found, not a SINGLE INCONSISTENCY of any substance has EVER been found. When you consider the sheer volume of manuscripts, this is truly an incredible achievement. The Dead Sea Scrolls, New Testament manuscripts found pretty recently, prove this dramatically. These were basically original documents that were recovered from the side of a mountain, and they have proven zero deviation from the copies of copies thousands of years down the line.

The argument that the Bible has been altered over time is quickly and easily shut down, so I can tell that you haven't talked much about this before. It's okay though, because it is legitimately a good question, and I used to wonder the same thing.

 

But every historian out there will bet their lives on the veracity of the Bible. It's just a fact, all religion and faith aside. The Bible is today as it was originally written.

 

in short -- have you seen an ORIGINAL bible, the actual "Authors copy" anyplace?

Have you seen original copies of the Histories of Julius Caesar? No? Do you still accept it as fact, because there is NO POSSIBLE WAY for an original copy to last on paper for thousands of years?

This is another very basic argument, very closely related to the last one, but I do basically understand where you're coming from, again. But let me say again that throughout its entire history the Bible has never been altered in any way shape or form.

 

i know i havent tho i am quite certain it was NOT written in 21st century english.

Um, would you rather read it in the original Hebrew or Koine Greek? :roll:

The fact that it's translated to English is not really a point at all. I don't think anyone's arguing that..... plus, a lot of Christians do read the exact wording in the original languages, or at least the direct transcriptions to English.

 

How do we know that much of it is NOT fiction? sure, SOME of whats there has been proven -- but no where NEAR all.

Sure, but NOTHING has been DISproven. Compare it to any other religious text out there. It's incredible. Also, you're really talking in generalities here dude- it's hard to respond.

 

i have spent a great deal of time searching and researching various items both on and off the web, with one site in paticular being of great assistance to me --- www.skepticsannotatedbible.com.

Okay.... once skeptical, anti-Christian website is not going to give you exactly the most ubiased and helpful perspective :lol:

 

Now as a Christian, of course I have a biased point of view, as does the author of that ridiculous website. I would strongly encourage you to look at what's said and decide on your own. I believe that the Bible speaks for itself, and it doesn't even really need my puny assistance. But for heaven's sake... don't just use one internet source like that on an issue as important as this!

 

if these people hold thier religions so highly, why the hell do they constantly contradict both each other and thier base faith? (as a side note, in my own personal experience, many of the right wingers ive ran across, when i questioned them, have never once did the same -- sit down and read thier bible from cover ot cover, while actually analising it.)

There's no question that there are a lot of idiots out there, and a LOT of overzealous right-winger Christian nutjob stereotypes that tend to give us a bad name. But don't you agree that it would be INCREDIBLY foolish to let them stop you from keeping an open mind to the Christian perspective? Does one bad experience at a restaraunt stop you from eating out ever again?

[RKCoon 0]

Not bad. i actually had to take soem time on this one. butthat being said...

 

First off, when i refer to bibles plural, its two fold -- bibles that are not christian, and second, the fact that the chrstian "bible" is no more than a compilation of various bibles, written over the ages by various persons and groups.

 

Next, as to consistency? would you not mean, the lack thierof? a quick perusal would demonstrate this point acutely, between the various sections, and within sections at times. furthermore, wit h the insane amount of intolerance for others demonstrated within its pages should be more than enough of a wake up call to anyone that isnt automatically saying waitaminute. More than that, the raw assumtion that an organization that has been charged with the preservation of said compilation would ensure on its authenticity, or even the direct assumption that the book is authentic, church notwithstanding, is mindblowing in and of tiself. simple fact is, no one here was there when the original form of ANY of these were written, and as any linguist specialist wiill tell you ,there are always minor, and major, miscues of translations of words between languages, to say nothing of the evolition of languages over the stretch of time. more to the point, YOU prove it IS authentic -- without falling back to the bible to do so.

Im not sure which of it it is more of -- arrogance, blindness or what, but somewhere something is making you beleive this utter fallacy. but please, prove it.

 

 

As far as proving the bibles authenticity as a historical document, we could ewasily start with the origins of mankind -- the bible would have us beleive were created by a divine entity, yet as science is doing consistently, steadily and more and more easily, such a statement is foolhardy.

 

next to last, very true, theres too many wakkjobs out there thatll skewer Christianity -- or any faith -- for thier own design. however, to me, Christianity at its core , as worded by many ive encountered to be summerised as "the bowing down of christ and expect salvation by worshipping such" is flawed. im not saying YOU beleive this, but rather htis seems to be the general concensus of the bible, moreover of the Christian faith. another example would be the thought of "kneeling before your god, your creator" -- excuse me, but if you wanna get technical, my parents created me, and i dont kneel to them -- nor do any here kneel to thier parents, i imagine, so why would i to some whino that, to my personal experience, ive yet to see materialise in any direct solid PROVABLE form? i dont think so.

 

Lastly, you seemed overly eager to dismiss the site i meantioned, mjore so than i was to say that the bible is far from perfect, further, the time it took for you to do so would indicate a lack of time spent studying such site. could it be that your self professed bias is preventing you from studying such a site with an open mind?

 

Just to repeat -- iom not trying to be harsh, insulting or so on, but rather, stating my views and defending them. uysually that means a nasty grey area. but iether way any offence isnt intentional.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

The only Compilation of the Christian Bible is the Hebrew Scritpure (Old Testament) and the Christian additions to it (New Testament).

 

Heres my stance on things, as based on the 15 *craaaack*, er hem, 10 commandments ( :wink: )

 

1: If you believe in a deity, be faithful to them. God, Bob, Allah, Yahweh, The Giant Marshamllow, whatever it is, dont go around saying you believe in this diety, and then saying you believe in another to somebody else. Keep consistent.

 

2: 1 God. I buy that. However, Some may notice Im trying not to force any one God upon anyof you. I think that no matter what name he/she/it goes by, God/Bob/Allah/The Marshmallow is one and the same.

 

3: Idols. Mostly in the form of material goods. This should be watched against, but not persecuted against. Its ok to strive for more money, or an iPod, or whatever the case is. But if thats all you care about (Gambling) then you have issues.

 

4:Dont take the Lords name in vain. Would you want your name used as a swear word? I didnt think so.

 

5: Respect the sabath. This is fine by me, worship your creator (whichever you believe in)

 

6: Honor they father and mother: agreed, because 8/10 they are right due to expirience. Up to a certain point. Once you hit the age of 14 to 18 (depending on the person) its ok to question them. but direct disobediance (unless they tell you jump off a cliff ect.) is uncalled for.

 

7: No killing: Hopefully not. In warfare, go for it. You cannot win a war by dieing for a noble cause. If we all died for a noble cause, the enemy would ultimatley win. But if you start the war for unprovoked reasons, then you are at fault.

 

8:No adultery: Sex before marriage, if you are comfortable with it, then Im not gona stop you. Persoanlly, I'll pob refrain from it. Deffinelty dont cheat on your spouse.

 

9:Though shall not steal: true, unless you are stealing from the enemy in a just war i.e you are the defendant

 

10: no false witness. dont say they did it when they didnt. i agree.

 

11: no wanting thy neighbors good. I think you can want them, but to be obsessive about it, that is a sin. Same with the neighbors spouse

 

yes I know i said 10, and theres 11, i messed up something in there. anywho, thats my stance on things.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

Oh I know man, and I see what you mean. I was just saying that generally your ethics and ideas fit into some mold. No matter how unique you may think something is, it has already been pored over by hundreds if not thousands of people with far more insight than you. I guess I'm basically pushing for humility here. No one knows 100 percent, and no idea is truly unique.

also, today i determined that the way i think makes me unique...i have yet to find someone that thinks close to 90% like me...opinion wise and all...ex-personality..

 

1: If you believe in a deity, be faithful to them. God, Bob, Allah, Yahweh, The Giant Marshamllow, whatever it is, dont go around saying you believe in this diety, and then saying you believe in another to somebody else. Keep consistent

Id say my version of this is...stay true..be HONEST

 

2: 1 God. I buy that. However, Some may notice Im trying not to force any one God upon anyof you. I think that no matter what name he/she/it goes by, God/Bob/Allah/The Marshmallow is one and the same.

i still havent decided if there is one God or not...but i know there is something out there having some influence

 

4:Dont take the Lords name in vain. Would you want your name used as a swear word? I didnt think so.

i disagree with the ways this is translated...ive basically turned this one into "dont curse god..or use him as a curse"

 

6: Honor they father and mother: agreed, because 8/10 they are right due to expirience. Up to a certain point. Once you hit the age of 14 to 18 (depending on the person) its ok to question them. but direct disobediance (unless they tell you jump off a cliff ect.) is uncalled for

i think questioning parents is NEVER uncalled for, and for that matter questioning ANYONE...but there still should be adequate respect and obedience...

 

8:No adultery: Sex before marriage, if you are comfortable with it, then Im not gona stop you. Persoanlly, I'll pob refrain from it. Deffinelty dont cheat on your spouse

id say sex before marriage is ok as long as its not with someone you dont know enough...and if its purely for physical pleasure i dont think its right..enough......and of course no cheating...if you do..be honest and tell your mate...

 

good idea cyg...give you credit..good way to compare values to the common ones :wink:

[BWare 0]

First off' date=' when i refer to bibles plural, its two fold -- bibles that are not christian, and second, the fact that the chrstian "bible" is no more than a compilation of various bibles, written over the ages by various persons and groups.[/quote']

The singular "Bible" is accepted by just about everyone as the Hebrew Old Testament and the New Testament. If you want to throw in the other "holy books" out there, then that's a whole different story.

 

Next' date=' as to consistency? would you not mean, the lack thierof? a quick perusal would demonstrate this point acutely, between the various sections, and within sections at times. [/quote']

You base your claim of inconsistency in the Bible on a "quick perusal?" Hmm. I think that's all that needs to be said here........ :roll:

 

furthermore' date=' wit h the insane amount of intolerance for others demonstrated within its pages should be more than enough of a wake up call to anyone that isnt automatically saying waitaminute.[/quote']

You know, you jump to this typical bleeding-heart point of "intolerance" pretty darn quickly dude. What can really be said about this? It's a typical, loaded, intellectually weak point. I don't mean to sound harsh, but accusing GOD of being intolerant? Since when did "tolerance" become THE absolute good anyway? It's just so obnoxiously trendy....

But anyways, I again ask you to be more specific. I just can't respond to these simple loaded adjectives you're throwing at such a deep and complex issue. Surely you see how silly this is. EVERYTHING in and about the Bible is backed with mountains of centuries of analytical work and theology. Don't think you can personally render that useless with your insight and charges of "intolerance."

 

More than that' date=' the raw assumtion that an organization that has been charged with the preservation of said compilation would ensure on its authenticity, or even the direct assumption that the book is authentic, church notwithstanding, is mindblowing in and of tiself.[/quote']

What "organization?" Is this a conspiracy theory now?? Come on dude. There isn't one universal church, and Christianity has and has always had PLENTY of enemies. Hell, just about all its founding apostles were tortured to death (explain its success in light of that!). Don't you think that an inconsistency or flat out error would get PLENTY of press? Do you have ANY idea how many manuscripts have been uncovered (not by a single "organization." Get over that :roll:), all without error? My point stands. It's just the truth dude.

 

simple fact is' date=' no one here was there when the original form of ANY of these were written, and as any linguist specialist wiill tell you ,there are always minor, and major, miscues of translations of words between languages, to say nothing of the evolition of languages over the stretch of time.[/quote']

What are you even talking about?? You are REALLY wandering. Are you claiming inconsistency in the preservation of the original languages? This I've already covered. It kinda looks like you're attacking the translation to English (correct me if I'm wrong, but your point here is NOT clear). This is a debated idea, and there are several different philosophies in translation. I won't bore you with them, but, among many, we have from them the NKJV version, the NAS, and the NIV, which is largely the most popular for the mainstream.

 

And of course, changes in language (like you cited) don't affect any of this. At all.

 

more to the point' date=' YOU prove it IS authentic -- without falling back to the bible to do so.[/quote']

When did I fall back on the Bible to prove the Bible's authenticity? That WOULD be very stupid. I cited the thousands and thousands of perfect manuscripts, all maintained without error over 2000 years. I'm not sure what more you want.... no other document in history has been subjected to nearly as much scrutinization or verification. Documents and historical accounts MUCH older and with FAR less verification are always accepted as fact, even if many of them are at the earlest 3rd or 4th hand copies, sometimes even later.

 

 

As far as proving the bibles authenticity as a historical document' date=' we could ewasily start with the origins of mankind -- the bible would have us beleive were created by a divine entity, yet as science is doing consistently, steadily and more and more easily, such a statement is foolhardy.[/quote']

So you can accurately discern between a "divine entity" and mankind? Wow, no one else in the world seems to understand this as perfectly as you! But all joking aside, we don't KNOW what a divine entity is or should be like. Knowing just one half of a comparison really doesn't prove or DO anything....

Also, if you want to talk about the Bible being a "historical document," I don't think you should have your point rest with the creation account :lol:

That kinda, you know, PREDATES history :wink:

 

however' date=' to me, Christianity at its core , as worded by many ive encountered to be summerised as "the bowing down of christ and expect salvation by worshipping such" is flawed.[/quote']

First of all, this is just flat out incorrect charictarization of the core theology of Christianity. Secondly, DO SOME FREAKING RESEARCH before jumping to such a hasty conclusion. Just a suggestion :wink:

 

im not saying YOU beleive this' date=' but rather htis seems to be the general concensus of the bible, moreover of the Christian faith.[/quote']

Oh! So you've moved from a "quick perusal" to a "general consensus" of the Christian faith! You know, something that generations of people have devoted their lives to. I'll tell ya, it really is a good idea to get a "general consensus" of it and just, you know, run with it :wink:

 

Lastly' date=' you seemed overly eager to dismiss the site i meantioned, mjore so than i was to say that the bible is far from perfect, further, the time it took for you to do so would indicate a lack of time spent studying such site. could it be that your self professed bias is preventing you from studying such a site with an open mind? [/quote']

Okay... first of all, comparing the Bible, a book whose history and veracity I've already stressed enough, on an even ground with ANY website, is just foolishness. Secondly, that site redirects me automatically to "turbonet.com," so... I'll do my best to keep an "open mind" to the great deals turbonet is offering me :lol: Thirdly, would you please not redirect all of your arguments to someone else's site? I don't have time to pore through all those anti-Christian ramblings and still get into med school. I'm a busy dude, and this is a fun distraction, but please... do the research yourself and debate with your own words.

 

Just to repeat -- iom not trying to be harsh' date=' insulting or so on, but rather, stating my views and defending them. uysually that means a nasty grey area. but iether way any offence isnt intentional.[/quote']

Dude, it's been a pleasure. It's been almost a page and you haven't yet insulted my mother, even ONCE! :lol:

You have not at all been offensive, but have been very thoughtful and thought-provoking as a matter of fact. I thank you for it.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

awwwwwwww how cute haha jk

 

see RK ive learned not to make any big claims without backing...cuz this is what happens...

 

me and BWare both understand something very important...dont argue about something if you dont know about it...

[BWare 0]

see RK ive learned not to make any big claims without backing...cuz this is what happens...

 

me and BWare both understand something very important...dont argue about something if you dont know about it...

EXACTLY. If you don't approach these massive issues with humility, then you're screwed and have no hope of truly understanding it. It's bigger than any one of us.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

i believe in what the bible imposes as the truest values of humanity..somewhat

 

but i cant base my whole value system on a book...it doesnt feel right...and i dont think my ethics and values will EVER stay the same..they should evolve with my life and mind..no?

[RKCoon 0]

i believe in what the bible imposes as the truest values of humanity..somewhat

 

but i cant base my whole value system on a book...it doesnt feel right...and i dont think my ethics and values will EVER stay the same..they should evolve with my life and mind..no?

 

Your damend right they should -- which btw,. has happened to some small degree in regards to the bible. i mean, are non whites and women held in servitude? do we still sell our daughters? Do we kill people for not keeping to the "sabbath"? To Quote: "It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies." -- Mark Twain, Letters from the Earth, p.14

 

 

Next, thisll sound funny, but i actually went to dictionary.com and looked up the term humility, just to be dead certain of it. i quote -

 

Humble-

Marked by meekness or modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful.

Showing deferential or submissive respect: a humble apology.

Low in rank, quality, or station; unpretentious or lowly: a humble cottage.

 

To be blunt- i found it funny ****. Just WHY would i be humble when approaching religion? ill be honest sure, and i said so up front -- im not the wisest out there, no great philosofer or anything -- but i WILL trust myself and my instincts. Those tell me theres more than just a small amount screwy when it intails the bible, so you bet yer ass im gonna question hard, question often, doubt like biatch and feel free to tear it apart to my satisfaction. If people dun like it? too bad. if "god" (to which ive seen absolutely ZILCH to convince me of) dont like it either, he/she/it/they can come down here and tell me in person. THEN PROVE IT. To be meek, in my mind, invokes possible submission, then slavery -- something i dont agree with paticularly much.

 

Have i made my point yet?

[rEdaSbLood 1]

dont pay attention to the 'meek' but the 'modesty'

 

to be humble isnt exactly to be weak-minded and quiet...but honest and respectful i think