What the Hell Happened?

[Guest Rabbit]

Ya know, I really did start to think about it, and, half the stuff I said... I really was a bit disillusioned or something...

 

For one, I believe that some of the reasoning I'm feeling this way is merely because of more loss of communication. People (Not just us on staff) have been talking less, at least, from what I've seen, and, I've taken it as a bad thing.

 

I realize that some of what I said can never be taken back, however, I have put some serious thought into it, and I realise that half the stuff I went along with was primarily because I've tagged along with King for the past year, merely because I wanted to be like him. He was always a role-model or something to me on this site.

 

I don't know, C&C is a good game, when I think about it, there really is no true problem with it other than the fact that the music isn't the greatest... there are still missions, there are still good units, good animations, Kane, good actors... I really like it, I just... I dunno... something felt like it was missing.

[Saracen 16]

you don't like the game you know what to do..... leave.

 

I took your advice and now you're complaining at me? I can not deny it, I do not like C&C 3. So I've left. End of Story.

 

I did mention about a year ago that however C&C 3 turned out would determine whether or not my stance in the community would change. I remember saying that if I don't like it, then I would have to possibly leave the C&C community.

 

I really don't care anymore, I'm here because Zee directed me to the thread. Nothing more.

 

It's been a fun 10 years, but I'm sick of this community and I'm sick of a game that only lived up to my expectations Graphically and not much else.

 

You know what, for the record, I'm gonna post my article here. Then Aaron can see it, cos I'm sure he's confused about this right now: k so here goes....

 

OK let’s cut the mustard here. I haven’t had the time of late to produce a post community summit report, neither have I had the time to write a long constructive review on the whole game. So instead I’m gonna write an article. It’s gonna be partially constructive yes, but I tell ya what, count this as a review and the shortest summit review ever instead and I’ll chuck in a few rants along the way.

 

OK 8 years ago almost now, we were wondering where Firestorm would take us. 8 Years on and you know what? I’m still wondering where Firestorm will take us. Cos even though we’ve waited so long, C&C 3 has left a sour taste in my mouth. Because C&C 3 is here, great, but I wonder what’s on the Sky or the sci-fi channel, because I’m dying for some real sci-fi.

 

I went to LA early march, got there on a Saturday, met up with other community summit peeps. Monday we played single player, and Tuesday, we kicked ass in Multiplayer. And there was a whole load of other stuff in between. But I wish to draw attention to the Monday in particular. Playing the game was great, I was emphatic about the whole game. I really got into it and was hyped. I even told our community manager that the game was indeed better than anything Westwood have ever produced. The production values, the spit and polish, the whole game seemed full of grace.

 

But holy hell, that’s the summit review over, and for every C&C 3 game review you’ve seen, stop reading now! I have a problem, I’ve played the game properly, and you know what, I take back about 50% of the things I originally had praise for in the game. Because now I realise that size matters, in more ways than one.

 

Big bucks buy you big actors, but do big bucks buy you good story writers, directors and music writers? I’m afraid they don’t, not in C&C 3 in any case. I just have to say this bluntly. The Campaigns for C&C 3 are just god-damn awful!! Why? Well let’s take a look shall we.

 

I’ve got to mention Westwood, cos when these guys created a C&C game, it was done with passion, pride, and limited resources. This has shown greatly in the past, because music was done by Frank Klepacki, who gave C&C a signature, then there’s Joe Kucan himself, who wouldn’t care how long shooting took, he wanted it right. And then there was the senior development team who took time over a table, in their homes, and through many small meetings to work a story that would fit the franchise. The story had to be detailed, contain a lot of information through the movies, and have many in-game FMV EVA sequences that would dictate the story in a thought provoking way…. That was C&C.

 

From what I’ve played for the last 72 hours, there seems to be a drastic overhaul of the entire paragraph above. When I see C&C 3, I see music composed by a guy who shouldn’t be touching games, cos even though Harry Gregson Williams could do a better job, the C&C signature which everyone has countless debates about, has gone. It’s atmospheric yes, but is it memorable and does it fire up people in the heat of a great battle? Unfortunately no, no-where near, because the music composed for this game sounds like something out of a low budget action movie. Enough said there.

 

So what about the movies, the acting side of things. Yes, I give EA credit, they got the great Joe Kucan back, and have managed to gain a huge cast. But big talent doesn’t count for anything if the direction and the passion for the game by the director isn’t there. And it isn’t, the direction is awful, and therefore the acting, and overall tone of the FMV sequences as well as C&C’s secondary signature, lays in ruins. Let me elaborate here.

 

Firstly, everything does not feel refined. The acting is wooden because the movies feel like they were done in a single take. The speech is quickly done and seems like it’s been read off an auto-cue. Take Lieutenant Kirce James. While talking about the pentagon under siege, she reels off about the attack on the pentagon, and almost within the same breath, she raises her voice and says “you cannot let this happen!”…. OK it won’t happen, and I know there’s supposed to be an urgency about getting your ass to the pentagon. But there’s no emotion, no body language transmitted to me about this attack. There’s also no real urgency or panic in her voice. After all shouldn’t a woman like that, no matter how professional, be crapping herself over the fact that she and her superiors could be about to die? I thought not….

 

Without spoiling too much, even the arrival of the Scrin is just damn awful. There’s no hint of panic, no emotion, nothing seems to be there. Only one actor in this game does justice to his Character and that is Joe Kucan himself, who knows how to play Kane. There’s emotion there, he gets angry, depressed, happy, sad, and you can connect with him, because after all, he’s done it so many times before, it works! But everything else? It’s relaxed, it’s distinctly average, in fact, Act Of War, despite many unknown actors within it’s FMV sequences, did a better job. The fact is everything feels rushed and I hate it.

 

Then there’s the script to the FMV. The core of this game’s polish, where did that go? I wanted to follow a story in the movies that had everything, leading me by the hand pushing me deep into the game’s narrative. But no, that’s extremely shallow, if you want to follow the story of the game, it lies in essay style intelligence data that you have to unlock as the game unfolds. So instead of spending that extra minute watching that info like during the great Westwood days gone by, you have to spend 2 – 5 times as much time reading about it instead of getting on with the game. Sure you can read it at your leisure…. But the FMVs do absolutely nothing to the game’s infrastructure.

 

I lost count the amount of times I would have to read a loading screen after a movie to find out exactly what I had to do, or jump into the mission objective screen just to find out what my mission really was. Because the poor effort put in by the script writers to tell me what my mission is, in between missions, adds more insult to injury than I could ever measure. I wanted to watch a movie, be informed and then play like Westwood so greatly made us, do, you can’t do it here, not for $50, £30 or free whatever you happened to spend or torrent in your own country.

 

I can’t complain much about the mechanics of the game though. That hard and Raw C&C feel is there. Build your base and defences, commence operation Spam-a-tank, and then go rush your opponent. It is great. But oh dear, why on earth did the fast, fluid and fun have to come into the Single player campaigns?

 

With the exception of perhaps 4 or 5 missions across the whole game, I found missions taking no more than 20 minutes, most actually were under 10. The result that I completed the Nod Campaign in under 3 hours, the GDI even less so, and the Scrin, let’s not even go there, that was a waste of time. My verdict is what a load of crap that was. Fast? Damn Yes! Fluid? Way too much! Fun? No!

 

Missions are over far too quickly. The only way you can make them last longer is if you use the dead end units (way too many!) in the game, destroy everything but the mission objective, and attempt to beat the game that way. But you’ll be out of luck, since if you don’t use the top tech units, and by that I mean at least 50 of the bastard things. You aren’t gonna complete a mission through Strategically using thought. But what can I say, no strategy needed. Just charge, destroy a few structures (you can leave the rest) and mission accomplished. So much for the kill everyone and everything protocol!!! And that’s it for the game play. But you know what? People in the community were shocked when I completed both campaigns in Tiberian Sun in under 2 weeks….. and after 2 days of 100% completion, I’ve come to this conclusion: They don’t make C&C like they used to eh?

 

So what would I give C&C 3 in terms of a percentage? Well if I’m being generous I’d say 81%, but if I’m honest I’d say more in the region of 69-71%. The game moves forward enough to be satisfactory, but once it’s there it doesn’t advance much further. How can I put it? Well let’s just say it’s as much like C&C: Generals in the respect that I’m doing a bunch of missions, but there is no backbone or substance to the story and production values.

 

With all this time it’s taken to develop C&C 3, I was expecting something more. But the game has turned out to be a huge disappointment campaign wise. It’s been 8 years too long and 8 years not so much worth the wait. The core of the whole game is there. But anything that fleshes the game out and gives it a meaty appeal is lost in only what I can see as a rush to get it out. This is either due to time, community/corporate pressure, or an overspent budget, and it shows in too many areas.

 

So, that’s the end, but let’s just tag on a little disclaimer that says that before you all attempt to flame me, send me e-mails about how I’m destroying the community, shooting down EA, and written the worst piece of crap ever because my English is terrible, let me tell you this….

 

I’ve tried to like the weak elements of C&C 3. Getting to go to a community summit was just an awesome experience and purely appreciated. It will never be topped! What I played and did there, I enjoyed every moment, and Kudos to the Dev team for getting a huge majority of it right. But everything I’ve outlined above just feels rushed and could be done so much better in the future.

 

There ya go.

[Cabal 0]

Dave,

 

To tell you the truth I'm disappointed in you. Yes I've only met you the once but you seemed enthiusiastic about the community as a whole not just about the nostalgia value of still being in the community.

 

I don't see the point in leaving the community just because you're annoyed at EAs apparent destruction of the game.

 

But whatever your reasons and views its your decision and you will be missed.

 

The fact is that EA have been overhyping it and it's not the game thats disappointing... its the fact that we've had since 2000 to wait for another true C&C game. We've been putting it up on a pedestal almost bowing down to the day that C&C3 is released so if it's anybodys fault that C&C3 isn't what we expected - then it's our own fault.

 

C&C3 is a good game. Sure it has some bad points but I'd like anybody here to be able to pick through every detail of every previous C&C game and find no bad points. The fact is many of us bought the game or got given the game solely to look for the bad points and show that the EA / Westwood thing is a mistake. Yes I'm sad that the family aspect isn't there anymore like it was with Westwood and I'm sad I don't have as good a relation with the entire studio like I did in the Westwood days but the fact is times change... we need to change with them.

 

I haven't had a chance to play C&C3 much since release because of university but I like what I've seen and I will still be here. It's my love of the game thats keeping me here. I love the C&C universe, love the community, love the developers... and I've put too much into the community and CnCWorld to just run off. I just don't want to run away anyway. Sure I haven't been around too much of late but I've just finished my final year of university this week and things have been hectic. However much or little i'm here, for all the things I've said in the past and for all the times I drift away... I'm a C&C guy at heart and will always be here in the community where I belong.

 

Hopefully you find your place with the petroglyph community like you did with the westwood / C&C community. Hopefully it will be like you want it to be... but times have changed since 2002.

[Sonic 293]

I took your advice and now you're complaining at me? I can not deny it, I do not like C&C 3. So I've left. End of Story.

Yeah but banning yourself from the forums, ignoring me in the process, I just don't get it. You could have sent me a PM or an e-mail and told me personally but they way you went about it was all wrong. One quick PM/e-mail from you and I wouldn't be so pissed off.

 

The whole reason I started questioning staff motivation last month was because I actually wanted some input from the people carrying the CNCNZ.com staff badge below their name. Get more activity from you and then the site would actually look alive like it used to.

 

I feel like I've done something wrong, and you have stabbed me in the back.

 

I have to be honest, I gave the ultimatum, by I was shocked that you really did quit. You should know me know, you should know I work and run things. I've used the same scare routine in the past to jump start things with site staff.

 

Now the strange twist, you shut yourself and cut all links to CNCNZ.com and the C&C community yet turn around and say your sinking your efforts in Petro-Gamers.com and the Petro community.

After everything that has been said can you honestly say that you can even speak with me and work with me on Petro-Gamers.com in the same way we have in the past for CNCNZ.com?

 

But in the end if thats how you feel, you want to quit so be it.

But man you really spit the dummy and dropped the ball at the same time by the way you went about things..... a disappointing end.

[fox34343 1]

All I know no is that Universe at War is coming out soon and it's from the creators of the once REAL C&C. I'll start following Petroglyph, at least then we'll have a story and music we can appreciate.

 

-REAL- story lines Aha you are kidding right?Iif the RA2 story line is anything to go by? That killed the whole RA universe for me.

[Guest Rabbit]

For the record, RA2 was designed while EA was in control. :roll:

[sith_wampa 6]

King, I agree wit you're points completely. You really gave a good description of what you didn't like, and you have good reason not to like it. But I also think Sonic is right. You can't all of the sudden leave the community and going on ranting about how much better of a job EA should have done on C&C3, and expect things to be all fine. Abandoning a problem will NEVER help fix it. Leaving now when the community needs more support than ever is only setting the example for everyone else who has ever had hope for future C&C games to just go off in a wild rant and leave all those years of hard work behind for nothing. Seriously, I don't think you will find a better RTS than C&C, no matter which game in the series (including Generals).

 

I think you need to read over all of what you said and keep in mind that you are contributing to the very downfall of something that is so great, something that you have put 10 years of hard work into. You are a fool if you think that leaving the community is a good thing for anyone, including yourself.

[blodnukl 0]

well everyone knows that C@C has gone downhill since ea took over...but the fact that all people do is complain about how bad of a job EA is doing and WTF this is such a waste is pissing me off.

 

i think that just becasue ownership changes off and it goes into a slump is no reason to turn your back on it, in fact to use a example say someone bought sonic out(hopefuly this never happens)and some corrporation takes over. they might not care as much or listened as much,but the fact is that the community does not change.the people in it do not change. and when a company doesnt have a community behind it it is then that the game or series truly dies not the swithching of companys or ownership,but the people that suppeort the game. if you are a true fan you support through the good and the bad.not just get in a bandwagon for another game only to do thesame thing when that game goes into a slump. even if you are pissed off at the new games that EA has come out with there is no reason to turn away from classics such as tib sun or RA.

 

sure you may get bored of doing the same thing over but that is what internet play is for,and even then if you do decide to take a break or even stop playing you are still part of a community...and to break off in such a way is wrong to compleatly turn your back on something that has not met your expectations...your willing to get rid off 10+ years for only 8...wich i remind you the games that made you part of the community are still out there and are still being played...

 

and there are always patches that come out to change up the old games and make them better

 

and look at A PATH BEYOND it is such a great game because it is made by fans that love the game and do it becase of that

[fox34343 1]

For the record, RA2 was designed while EA was in control. :roll:

 

Yes but It was way before the mass exodus of Westwood people; most probably including the -Westwood- writers.

 

The point I'm trying to get at is that surely the production of RA2 was under a lot less EA influence than the production of TW, and RA2 had a much worst story line.

 

It's just my opinion that there have been CNC games with worst story lines before Tiberian Wars, which I think has a good story*although the Nod ending left me a bit confused* but at least it keeps us guessing before the expansion pack, right?

[rEdaSbLood 1]

i agree with Sonic's last post...and i can understand where hypno is coming from, and even where you KING are coming from with your complaints...

 

but to leave the community? the COMMUNITY..goto dictionary.com and define that...more so define to me what that word means, and then tell me that since CnC3 isn't what you or anyone else may have expected...that you should leave the community...

 

in reality i have spent more time on this forum talking about things BESIDES CnC..than CnC ITSELF...

 

KIng, i dont even know you but by your posts and whatnot i have respect for you...but you leaving, is a disappointment..equal to CnC3?

 

you are a respected individual on this site and in this community and does that not matter to you? are you going to let EA's breed detach you from us?

 

FINE...if that is what you decide, then so be it..i will still be here as will others...and we will act as if it makes no difference...

 

CnC3 isnt true to CnC but we remain...King isnt true to CNCNZ? then we will remain...

 

ill miss ya king :cry:

[Guest Rabbit]

I put out the 8th podcast, and it directly relates to this topic. I suppose you'll see a dramatic turnaround.

 

http://forums.cncnz.com/viewtopic.php?t=7757

[sith_wampa 6]

Very nice. It's good to see some positive energy going around.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

"and um..yea uhhh...its uhh...a really good game...and um...well uhhh"

 

jk

 

nice podcast...did better than i could...i like how you checked the community news...the end was corny but clever i like

[GeneralZ 0]

C&C 3 is great. Screw the campaigns, all i've been doing is playing online the last few days. not complaining here

 

I enjoyed all the C&C games. I dont really hate EA, other than Generals wasnt true C&C. But it was still fun and a good game

 

C&C 3 is a bit lacking in storyline and new substance, but its still fun to play.

[TheBlackOut 6]

Screw the campaigns

 

I'd run, now.

[GeneralZ 0]

the campaigns are ok. watching Nod pounded into rubble is very enjoyable

 

otherwise, once its over, not much u wanna do again. i really dont feel like replaying missions over and over cause i havent found any cool ones. There needs to be more of the 1 commando take out entire enemy base by himself, kinda like the RA1 inside-building maps. those i enjoy

[sith_wampa 6]

Yeah, that would have been interesting. It also would have been a good step towards the in-depthness that we all want.

[TheBlackOut 6]

I've never really found myself wanting to play the missions again on any game. But I have, especially if I've forgotten some little detail in the FMV after it. (I'd rather play the game then just watch the videos on YouTube)

 

Though now you can watch the videos you've unlocked in C&C 3 without replaying the missions or going into a program to view the video files!!

[Mario 0]

For the record, RA2 was designed while EA was in control. :roll:

 

Yes but It was way before the mass exodus of Westwood people; most probably including the -Westwood- writers.

 

The point I'm trying to get at is that surely the production of RA2 was under a lot less EA influence than the production of TW, and RA2 had a much worst story line.

 

It's just my opinion that there have been CNC games with worst story lines before Tiberian Wars, which I think has a good story*although the Nod ending left me a bit confused* but at least it keeps us guessing before the expansion pack, right?

 

allo stranger long time no see

 

i have to agree with King it really is disappointing how quickly you can complete the game i have only found a few missions difficult other than that its easy i too dont like the idea of just destroying a few buildings and mission done and the acting is rather ****e imo and as King say the only one who is any good is Joe because he has done great before

[GeneralZ 0]

I like Boyle, he's still too much like Lando. I feel like its Lando talking everytime.

 

Every1 else sucks, cept the Nod actors. Whyd they make them good and GDI actors bad

[rEdaSbLood 1]

prolly cuz NOD is a passionate side..while GDI are DUM and misguided?

[Luk3us 63]

The Nod actors had something to go with, kicking the almighty GDI's asses and then just trying to survive afterwards....

 

Whilst GDI was kidna like, yeah same old stuff, we blow everything up angle... Yawn, where is my coffee, oh Aliens? Pff we're blow them up too, where is my coffee?

[Alphabear 11]

Yep, pretty much it. Maybe next time Nod should Try and win a war for once.

[Luk3us 63]

What and end the great and almighty C&C franchise? I think not!

 

Besides GDI have won three world wars now, and Nod still exists.. That speaks greatly to how effective GDI really are...

[Alphabear 11]

Germany lost two and they're still going strong