Extinguishers banned as a fire safety hazard

[sith_wampa 6]

Linky.

 

I lol'd when I read this, and then realized that the government is inept at teaching anything useful, like how to use a fire extinguisher, or algebra.

 

Discuss.

[Saracen 16]

Welcome to the UK.

 

I hate this damn country

[sith_wampa 6]

 

LOL

[BioBen 3]

I got that exact one too

[Doctor Destiny 41]

I have ABP so I don't see ads.

 

Anyway. What in holy hell? A FIRE HAZARD? Extinguishers are a freaking godsend when you gotta put out that little fire. I mean, they're not that hard to use. Pull the pin, point and spray. Tough.

 

They say it encourages people to fight fires. No it doesn't. People are still wusses and won't be a damn hero if they could die, unless they're really fool-hardy. >_>

[Duke 0]

That's more ridiculous than words can describe.

 

They say it encourages people to fight fires.

 

Well actually the flipside of that is that people could save more lives by putting the fire out quickly when it's small before it gets a chance to spread.

[sith_wampa 6]

Well apparently that's a bad idea now.

[Chronojam 3]

Hey can we get some statistics going either way here?

[Julbri 0]

That's just stupid, a quick blast of a fire extingisher when i fire is still small would save alot of time and fire fighting resourses. And I have to agree with DD, anything that can't be extingished with an extingisher would cause people running away in panic, no running towards it to try fight it.

 

 

[Chronojam 3]

Julbri do you have any data to contribute or is this just personal observation or anecdotal evidence, or worse guessing?

[Julbri 0]

Julbri do you have any data to contribute or is this just personal observation or anecdotal evidence, or worse guessing?

 

Just personal opinion, worked well for me so far.and generaly people don't need to have data to express that

 

Just like my personal opinion that your very opinionated and don't like to be proved wrong but if you want evidence i have the obverseration of my father (ex-firefighter) to base myself on. many fires he attended where easily extingishable with a small extingisher and he had never encountered an unextingishable (with an extingisher) where someone had attempted to extingish the blase with an extingisher,they just got out and called the fire brigade.

 

Happy now?

 

[comander starlin 6]

to be honest that is just dumb, i have used them for meny things but fires, and if one ever happened i would control it if it can be done iff not i am out of there and calling the right people......

 

 

the GhostBusters!!!

[BioBen 3]

@ Chronojam

 

2.2% of people who use forums use orange font. 100% of these people are utter twats.

 

Data can easily be faked, and you don't need data and facts to prove common sense.

If you want to turn this into an argument, get some data of your own to prove otherwise.

[Julbri 0]

comander starlin just reminded me that there a really effective way to cool beer if there gas instead of powder (according to mythbusters) but what else can they be used for??

[BioBen 3]

lol propelling yourself at speed through an office on a swivel chair?

[Nmenth 291]

what else can they be used for??

Distracting your enemy by shooting it and making it explode.

[Chronojam 3]

@ Chronojam

 

2.2% of people who use forums use orange font. 100% of these people are utter twats.

 

Data can easily be faked, and you don't need data and facts to prove common sense.

If you want to turn this into an argument, get some data of your own to prove otherwise.

Oh, I get it; any kind of discussion here on current events just decays into namecalling by the regulars, with them pulling out false claims left and right. Instead of being all HURF DURF I WAS ON WESTWOOD CHAT AND VTED GAVE ME TEMP OPS POWERS WHEN I WAS NINE BACK THIRTEEN YEARS AGO SO YOU'RE A ****** I will just continue on with the thread You realize the only people "turning this into an argument" are the people who, for some reason (maybe because THEIR BROTHER is a firefighter or THEIR DAD'S FRIEND once saw it on TV) think they should second-guess the professionals on this kind of thing-- that's the argument, and I'm not the one starting it or agreeing with them on it either.

 

So US and UK fire officials have warned for years (I first recall hearing it ten years ago at a local fire department complex, heard again at demonstrations, and once again visiting a chemical company's private fire department) about fire extinguisher misuse because the equipment (even in our modern 21st century world) is unreliable and often well due for a refill/replacement both in homes and institutions, resulting in a false sense of security for civilians who most likely have never attempted to use an extinguisher in their lives. Maybe you've seen it on your favorite sitcom, or in Sims 2 or something.

 

In the panic that sets in when you realize your kitchen is on fire, you might not rationalize taking a few seconds to read the instructions, check the inspection date, or the pressure/content guage. You may not read the instructions, and may not even know what kind of extinguisher you have (Halon vs CO2 vs water vs etc etc) or how to properly aim it. You might not even realize the size of fire that you can safely contain, and likely have not seen a kitchen or living room or dorm catch fire in front of you to understand the speed they progress at, dangers to watch for, and probably aren't thinking about smoke inhalation.

 

Civilians just don't know enough to make it safe, it is a gamble, and people get hurt because of it. That's the thinking, and I've heard this for years now. The very best thing to do (unless for whatever reason you know everything beforehand) is to let somebody professional handle it and accept the loss in personal property over the health risks and the danger of making it worse.

 

Let's take an informal sampling for anybody posting in here, and please answer off the top of your head without checking---

Do you have a fire extinguisher?

What agent is contained within?

What is its maximum capacity?

What is the current guage reading?

When did you last test-fire it?

If you haven't, when did you last test-fire any fire extinguisher?

How many fires have you stopped?

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Fire extinguishers are extremely handy. They can prevent unnecessary trips from firefighters to fight small fires a simple little tool can stop. Hell, I'm even trained in their use as it was part of my job training as a vehicle inspector. So if I had to learn, why the hell shouldn't everyone else? They're not hazards and when they are, proper regulations were not followed.

 

[EDIT] As far as I can tell, most fire extinguishers are foam-based.

[Nmenth 291]

(Halon vs CO2 vs water vs etc etc)

Halon? What country still has halon extiguishers?

[Julbri 0]

I have often used compressed water extinguishers to help contain small controlled fires and have a small CO2 extinguisher in our house.

 

DD, you said you were trained, what would you say you were instucted as basic directions to using an extinguisher?

[Chronojam 3]

Halon? What country still has halon extiguishers?

First google hit appeared to be a place out of LA

 

http://www.h3rcleanagents.com/h3r-halon-po...tinguishers.htm

© 2008 H3R Clean Agents, Inc. All rights reserved.

 

H3R Clean Agents

483 Magnolia Avenue,

Larkspur, CA 94939

 

 

Halon was very popular before the 90s and the ozone-hole crisis coming to light; aerosol sprays and halon came under great scrutiny. There are still legacy systems in place in many locations; depending on local and national fire code, you may actually have to pay a fine if the system discharges but not require immediate removal depending on circumstance (The UK also had them up until five years ago when they were banned)

 

 

 

A critical danger is definitely that many civilian fire extinguisher operators do not know what their extinguisher has, perhaps because they were not the purchaser, never reviewed the details upon purchase if they were, or it was simply so long ago and so trivial a detail; I mean, do you know what kind of actual smoke detector you have (methods + materials)? Pressurized water, although not really suitable for kitchen use where most homeowners would want one handy, is cheap and easily recharged... but it'll screw you if you try to use it when your toaster lights on fire or your bacon goes up in flames.

 

Those who work directly around critical systems or machinery involving combustibles are more apt to get fire safety training; for example, somebody working as a mechanic or in a vital server room. I wouldn't take it for granted that most accountants, biochemists, gym teachers, sports players, IT specialists, or retail clerks have undergone even a one-day training course beyond "Here's where the alarm is, here's the local and internal security numbers to call, here's where the evac locations are." They're not going to recognize differences between ABC/BC/D/[E/F/K] extinguishers. For these reasons, companies that are OSHA compliant actually are required to explicity discourage/prohibit employees who have not received specific training from using extinguishers. There becomes much more liability, as people may hesitate to leave the area, contact authorities, etc. The people are also specifically trained of the risks involved in attempting to fight a fire, as it turns out.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, in the US and elsewhere a water or dry-chem/powder extinguisher is the most common. Foam, wet-chem, and other special purpose/hazmat/flammable-metal specific extinguishers are also available but often are more expensive and relegated to particular industrial use at chemical plants, machine shops, etc

 

e: This raises a good question. Who is responsible for teaching you all of this, and when? There are obviously existing requirements/standards for particular companies to adopt, but I want to know what you think. I'd wager the national governments don't see it as THEIR job to teach you this any more than it's their job to teach you to not play in the middle of the highway, but yet recognize the risk of overconfident/undertrained would-be firefighters.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Chronojam

[Doctor Destiny 41]

DD, you said you were trained, what would you say you were instucted as basic directions to using an extinguisher?

Pull the pin, aim the nozzle, squeeze the handle and douse the flames with a sweeping motion. Not really that hard. And when it's done, you send it back to be refilled and properly pressurized.

[BioBen 3]

I'm pretty sure any person even under pressure can do that, maybe not with a steady hand but still put out the said fire.

[Chronojam 3]

Pull the pin, aim the nozzle, squeeze the handle and douse the flames with a sweeping motion. Not really that hard. And when it's done, you send it back to be refilled and properly pressurized.

Right, but what do you do if it's a wall or ceiling fire? Did they train you to verify the pressure, contents, or dates on the extinguisher first? Which type should you use for burning styrofoam packaging? What if it's a pump motor that lit on fire? And don't tell me what you know you should do, tell me what your training indicated.

 

People don't know more than scant basics, that's what makes it dangerous; people do now know enough and can't remember enough under pressure. Bioben I'm wondering why you have such faith in the majority of people to have been trained, be cool, be aware, and remember enough to safely deal with a fire that's been burning more than a minute or two. Apparently corporations, standards organizations, firefighters, and governments all disagree with you so surely you have some compelling reason they've never considered; please share it. You know that during fires, even small fires, many people literally trample each other to death.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

I didn't check the extinguishers on site. Those were routinely checked by other staff and were always in working order. Not to mention, I would have sprayed out a car fire if at all possible to be done without being hazardous. And you also have to remember I was trained for my job specifically and it was all car fires.

 

Even still, we only had one while I was there. And it wasn't on my side, it was on the auction half where the engine blew out and started a fire because of low oil. No one ran to douse it I don't think so to say it poses a risk seems kinda... blown out of proportion.

 

Then again, no one wants to highlight any positives like lives it has saved. Nah, just report the negative to scare people. Nine out of ten people won't ever have to touch one. Where's the risk?