CNCNZ.com Roundtable #20 - Fan Input Edition

[Sonic 295]

The 20th edition of the CNCNZ.com Roundtable has arrived. For the first time ever control over the questions was put into the hands of the fans, our core veteran team of panellists have done their best to answer them. In this new Roundtable we discuss EA's post release support, famous names in the games, C&C on the Wii, Generals 2 speculation, Art of C&C book, Improving special editions of future C&C games.

 

 

Here is the panel for this month.

• Sonic - CNCNZ.com Webmaster
  
• Luk3us - CNCNZ.com Forums Moderator
  
• Lion - Red Alert Den
  
• Banshee - Project Perfect Mod
  
• Chickendippers - CNC World
  
• Blbpaws - CNC Generals World
  
• JohnWE - CNC-Files
  
• Assassin - CNC Source
  

Click here to read Roundtable Discussion #20.

[Silverthorn 0]

I am happy to see how this one goes so far, well, let's get started :

 

1. As for the support system, I'm proud of it so far, yeap, with EA using beta tests & more patches coming right up, I'm pleased with them. Good job!

 

2. As for the celebrity thing, it is ok, it was fun, but they wasted too much money just to hire some great ones. Let's say if the next C&C game features celebrities again, let's say a total of 8 famous ones, if I were them, I'll crop them down to only 3 or less or even 0. I agree with you, Sonic, all that celebrities don't make any huge differences, I did tell my friend about Tim Curry as RA3's Cherdenko, but he asked who is Cherdenko and he said he never played RA3 before, he knows him more from the movies like Spamalot. That's why video games do not have lots of influences though (Only for today, the future maybe), which is pretty sad. Same case for Josh Hollaway, if you tell a non-C&C friend he stars in C&C3, he'll give you the same answers just like my Cherdenko example.

 

As for Chicken said, I do not remember in RA2 which Westwood hired any Hollywood stars, not even Yuri's Revenge, most of them are just non-Hollywood people I know, the key people I remember the most are Carville & Yuri. After EA took control of the franchise, they begun with that idea in C&C3 instead.

 

And another thing, I recommend EA should focus on expanding the CGI scenes which I nearly forgot to mention, although I now know that EA doesn't have a CGI room & forced to outsource them, but it's best that EA create their own CGI room, in that way, all that overused celebrity expenses will be changed to CGI expenses instead.

 

3. No comment as I'm not a console fan.

 

4. What I meant about hardcore fans is like JohnWE said, yes, we the players in the old Westwood days from TD to YR, sorry for not being specific in the first place which I thought you all knew about it. I agree with Banshee the most, many players will be focusing more on the front lines, just like the recent BCPT's main event, they rarely concentrate in base constructions when they already got whatever it's already needed. But Sonic, there's a real problem, if Generals 2 would to carry on the Dozer system, the hardcore WW fans will flame all over again just like they flamed Generals 1 (I am forgiving even if you tell me to move on, but what about them?). If Generals 2 would to use the MCV system, I'm worried that hardcore Generals fan or even any new RTS fans will complain that Generals 2 is not a sequel from Generals 1 as they don't match with each other (In terms of its gameplay systems, fast-paced gaming like C&C3 & RA3, and without the actual use of FMV & CGI, the poor storyline does not count.), just like how Tiberian Sun doesn't match with Tiberium Wars very well. That's why I recommend EA to nail the coffin in that universe and create a brand new one instead.

 

As for Assassin's comment, I cannot 100% agree, C&C is ALREADY using key systems which other RTSes does not have, it uses the MCV system (And the sidebar, FMV & CGI of course), if you look at other RTSes, they don't use MCVs, if one of them does, then it's already a copycat and EA have the right to sue that company for copying & utilizing the MCV system without permission (Even if there's permission, gamers will not like it as they'll say is a clone rip-off of C&C). And here are other key systems for other games like Starcraft, Zerg utilizes their creeps (Spawn from Hatcheries & Zerg Creep Colonies) for base buildings & Protoss use pylon radius to build their structures on, if Blizzard remove those which is one of the key systems, SC fans will be very angry and will demand an explanation why (Or worse, BRING IT BACK!), excuses is not what they like to hear. Same goes for C&C, the MCV & sidebar systems WILL stay, no matter if one is trying to throw away or not, Generals gambled it and already did that, in the end, it triggered flames from many of us, that's why it's best that you should not throw away key systems when they're not supposed to.

 

5. Concept arts or art book maybe beautiful, but only when the artworks are totally NEVER BEEN SEEN before. Those already been seen before as many will practically "Save As" the picture from the game site and keep it in their hard disk. That's why a new artwork which was never been seen by the public is recommended. Existing ones? No way!

 

6. Well Sonic, I agree with you on the maps & skins, true, all these special downloads will have their values decreased over time when they suddenly become publicly available for download. Like the Age of Wreckoning map, it was supposed to be exclusive for Warhammer fans who also play RA3, but few months later, that map is now available for download. Making it useless or not worth it.

 

And wow, I never know a lot of you love the pewter figurines which I never seen them before. And well, no matter if it's going to be a figurine, bobble-head or a plushie, that kind of special stuff is technically cannot be downloaded or very hard to be found in online markets such as Amazon or Ebay. So yes, I also prefer the figurines.

 

------

 

Anyway, it's a good roundtable this month. Thanks for arranging this opportunity for the fans to ask the questions, Sonic.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Silverthorn

[recover 2]

Yay, my question was picked as #1.

My thoughts:

1) So far it has been pretty good for C&C3 and RA3, but I agree with others that KW received almost no post-release support, most likely due to it being outsourced.

2) Yes, I think the celebrity-hiring got a little overboard in RA3. The women with almost no clothes and that oh-so-distracting cleavage makes me a little ashamed to be part of the target audience.

3) Nah, I don't think C&C will ever be on the Wii, unless it's outsourced.

4) Hmm... I think the sidebar would work well in Generals, but I don't think they necessarily should use a Conyard.

5) As with most others, I don't think this would sell well if sold separately... Maybe they could give it out on summits or include it in a special edition.

6) I think pewter figurines would work. More and better behind the scenes footage, I think the behind the scenes footage included in the Kane Edition was very short.

[chickendippers 1]

Haha, it's unanimous then; pewter figurines in the next C&C game!

[hagren 0]

Seconded! Pewter figruines are teh awsomez. Add that to the content that the RA3 premier edition offered, and we have ourselves a delicious special edition.

 

Btw, I disagree with the statement of EA adding too many celebrities. It's certainly a good thing to bring in new audiences- the question is: Is it effective? Since if not, then the funds should be spent on something else, no doubt.

 

I'd also like to add that there isn't more nudity in RA3 than in, say, TS or RA2. It was only marketed that way, for humoristic reasons.

 

Lastly, even though this is a bit off-topic, there isn't actually much that sets apart RA2 FMVs from RA3; we only need some more sets (especially outdoor), add some real footage into the mix (Marches, explosions etc), and we're set. I am disheartened that there are people hating on the greatness that is RA3 for all the wrong reasons.

[Malevolence 6]

I'm sorta running out of time today and here's my quick opinions.

 

Question 1) How do you think the post release support of EA's recent C&C games has been? What can they improve on?

 

I agreed with the majority, they are improving, but since I'm not a modder of any sorts currently (thanks to my busy schedules and my painfully ancient rig, able to play UR is considered quite a miracle though) the SDK issue isn't much of my concern.

 

Question 2) Is EA putting too much focus on hiring celebrities and famous names in the latest games?

 

Sonic's response FTW!

 

Question 3) Do you see any potential for a C&C game on the Nintendo Wii?

 

Agreed with Silverthorn's post above. Not a console person.

 

Question 4) If Generals 2 is the next C&C and it uses the classic C&C MCV/Conyard, sidebar system. Would it be more acccepted by the hardcore fans?

 

As for me, if possible, EA could implement both modes in the game, players can choose to use classic sidebar or the generic RTS format with a simple click in the Options Menu. No complaints everyone will be happy, except Generals haters. Dozers can be back, as well as MCVs, if EA is able to create something as unique as the same manner

 

Question 5) Do you think there is a market for an "Art of Command & Conquer" book full of concept art and/or CG renders?

 

Yes, yes and yes.

 

Question 6) What would you like to see included in the special editions of future C&C games (EG the RA3 Premier or C&C 3 Kane Edition)?

 

I am very disappointed in the "special editions" EA marketing team made in C&C3KE, Preorder C&C3, Preorder RA3 Premier. It's just bonus disc and pretty uninteresting and incomplete software junk readily available in other methods. These exclude special bonuses in some countries marketing strategies.

 

Fans want something physical, something worth keeping, a souvenir of sorts. Almost every C&C members are crying out loud for Pewter figures since the production of C&C3, or at least something else such as keychains or ... for crying out loud something physical thats worth keeping.

 

Seeing the current cost cutting direction EA is heading, products going digital and so on, such dreams may not happen anytime soon.

[Sonic 295]

I'd also like to add that there isn't more nudity in RA3 than in, say, TS or RA2. It was only marketed that way, for humoristic reasons.

Damn what version of RA3 did you get

 

There is no nudity, only cleavage and bit of leg from the ladies..... its all good.

[hagren 0]

That's exactly what I'm saying

One popular complaint is that the game is all about boobs, but it isn't in the slightest and/or to any greater extent than before.

 

Malevolence: Keychain is a good idea Or an alternate-universe coin?

[Silverthorn 0]

I agree, all that boobs and sexy legs are quite distracting, they're not necessary! Beautiful looks are more than enough already, especially when RA2's Lieutenant Zofia is already sexy enough, but boob cleavage and sexy smooth legs? No way, that's just a little too much! I prefer the seriousness of acting, Yoshiro's acting was serious during the RA3 intro, but he lost them when he should be more menacing and a little extra evil during his speech to the world.

 

Wow, hagren, alternate universe coin? Now that's sweet, I would love to have each of the faction's 50 cent coins. Or another, car stickers.

[Nmenth 291]

One popular complaint is that the game is all about boobs, but it isn't in the slightest and/or to any greater extent than before.

Been a while since you played an older game, has it?

[mirza044 4]

Been a while since you played an older game, has it?

Maybe Hagren played some "nude" versions of old C&C games, which not seen before by anybody :lol:

[Silverthorn 0]

Lol, that cracks me up, and I do not remember the old C&C games feature sexy girls of some sort, all I remember is RA2 began with that with Lieutenant Zofia. That's what I know.

 

I'm sorta running out of time today and here's my quick opinions.

 

Question 4) If Generals 2 is the next C&C and it uses the classic C&C MCV/Conyard, sidebar system. Would it be more acccepted by the hardcore fans?

 

As for me, if possible, EA could implement both modes in the game, players can choose to use classic sidebar or the generic RTS format with a simple click in the Options Menu. No complaints everyone will be happy, except Generals haters. Dozers can be back, as well as MCVs, if EA is able to create something as unique as the same manner

 

Putting both into one game can be catastrophic and nearly impossible to solve. I encounter one game that uses a small dose of C&C elements, it's Atari's Act of War RTS. The game doesn't have a sidebar, it's just the regular bottom bar. The Task Force Talon faction utilizes its drones to build buildings like the Empire's Nanocores (But AoW was made first before RA3), but when it comes to repairs, it's Dozer style. And sorry, the US & Consortium factions are using dozers too. So far, sorry, if I were the EA devs, I rather not gamble into such huge risk to put the franchise into another horrible disgrace again. I got the feeling Dozer & MCV cannot mix, it's just like you're trying to mix oil & water.

 

As always, I still recommend they nail the coffin to that universe and never revive it again.

[hagren 0]

Lt. Zofia and Tanya definitely contained some sexappeal (Heck, Wuhrer's fake boobs almost bounced out on multiple occasions, and Sofia wore a sleek leather outfit indoors!), plus there were bikini-wearing gals playing with Vladimir briefly, so, I don't think RA3 is any "sexier" than before, the marketing department just pumped it up.

 

And I for one would like to keep Generals 2, if there will be one, as it was. Remember, amongst hardcore CnC fans it wasn't very popular, but the MP crowd loved it- So why rain on their parade? We already have the RA and Tiberian universe, they're much more intriguing anyways.

Edited June 1, 2009 by hagren

[Malevolence 6]

I'm kinda neutral to the issue of boobs/sex appeal in RA3. RA2 has a fair share of those as well. However, if such stuff (massive deliberate boobs and more boobs and sneak peek-a-boos of various feminine parts) appears in Tiberian universe and any C&C universe that is unrelated to Red Alert 2 or 3, I'll say C&C has jumped the shark.

[recover 2]

Lt. Zofia and Tanya definitely contained some sexappeal (Heck, Wuhrer's fake boobs almost bounced out on multiple occasions, and Sofia wore a sleek leather outfit indoors!), plus there were bikini-wearing gals playing with Vladimir briefly, so, I don't think RA3 is any "sexier" than before, the marketing department just pumped it up.

I agree that RA2 had some pretty ladies, mostly Kari Wuhrer as Tanya but also Zofia (can't recall the actresses name), but RA3 brought it well over the top.

I wouldn't say that Wuhrer's boobs were fake per se. The proper push-up bra can make most boobs look bigger.

But yea, the majority of the sex appeal in RA3 might have come from the advertising, but I guess the major complaint there is that EA is trying to make it more lucrative so more people buy it, which I consider is a foul trick in itself.

[Silverthorn 0]

A foul trick which I don't find it pleasing, it did make us buy the games, but it can't make us keep into our memories very easily. RA2 is everlasting in my opinion, but RA3 isn't. It's best that you sell something that makes it worth FTW, not some gimmick which works very well but later on, it's going to plummet or the value of it decreases, makes us forget about it.

 

Take the Dragon Ball movie for example, the title said so, many people bought the tickets, the profits were high. But when they watch it and rate it very terrible, any other people who want to buy the DVDs later will think of not buying it at all, which means the sales fall into losses instead after that.

 

In summary, RA2 did it well with going up and stay still without dropping. But with Dragon Ball (Possibly RA3), the sales were sky-rocketed at first, but later on, it's plummeting downwards, making the values decreasing badly. RA3 will do better than Dragon Ball, that's why I hope EA focuses on selling things seriously rather than using gimmick sex sell tactics. Sex sells will work at first, but when the first buyer spread the word to the next customers, they'll re-think and might reconsider not buying it, that will be the side effect if EA is not careful.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Silverthorn

[Nmenth 291]

Lt. Zofia and Tanya definitely contained some sexappeal (Heck, Wuhrer's fake boobs almost bounced out on multiple occasions, and Sofia wore a sleek leather outfit indoors!), plus there were bikini-wearing gals playing with Vladimir briefly, so, I don't think RA3 is any "sexier" than before, the marketing department just pumped it up.

RA2 Tanya had a very tiny top, but RA3 (through a near impossible feat) gave her an even tinier top, now not much more than a drab green bra. RA2 Eva had a rather short skirt, but RA3 hacked that shorter too and misplaced two-thirds of her top buttons. RA2 Zofia had a tight-fitting leather suit, but RA3 Dasha did away with the suit for a similarly small skirt and button-lacking top combo like Eva. You mention bikini-wearers in RA2, but they only appeared shortly and really, the standard female cast of RA3 are only one step short of bikinis themselves. RA2 certainly went with revealing outfits for the women, but RA3 went a lot farther with it.

 

I wouldn't say that Wuhrer's boobs were fake per se. The proper push-up bra can make most boobs look bigger.

They were.

 

However, if such stuff (massive deliberate boobs and more boobs and sneak peek-a-boos of various feminine parts) appears in Tiberian universe and any C&C universe that is unrelated to Red Alert 2 or 3, I'll say C&C has jumped the shark.

The Tiberium universe has not gone as far as Red Alert, but there has definitely been some clothing removal going on there too.

[hagren 0]

In RA3 I don't mind because it's an over-the-top cheesy universe. For any Tiberian game of course, I'd prefer believable clothing (Even though EA did a tremendous job with the male Soviet uniforms, much better than Romanov's).

Edited June 2, 2009 by hagren

[Malevolence 6]

I was kinda disappointed when the Nod FMVs in C&C3 and KW seems very cheesy and goofy, and less realistic, violent and evil, almost of RA2/3's standards.

[Silverthorn 0]

The C&C3 one is kind of ok to me, but except they're not used properly as an outdoor CGI compare to RA3. There was 1 in KW, which is the MARV, but was used as an FMV instead, which is a mistake but at the same time not a mistake too.

 

But C&C3 has more, I remember the Ayers Rock mission's FMV have Avatars walking & Vertigos flying is another outdoor CGI, but sadly, EA keep that as a TV scene for the FMV, that's a horrible use of them! Put them as outdoor CGI instead! And for RA3's 1st Soviet mission, DO NOT recycle the HM3 intro. Although no choice but I just don't like the looks of it.

 

But anyway, I better hope EA create their own CGI room so it'll solve many of the CGI problems, enough with those outsourcing, they're just making things more complicated and yet expensive by the second.

[Gben 20]

1. I agree the broken game and balance support for C&C games has been pretty good, but the lack of mod support seems to be leaving a sour taste in the mouth.

2. Well, with RA3 selling a million games, it's not hurting them. I think the celebratories are the icing on the cake, not the main reason for the purchase.

3. I think because the console is so popular, that EA have to be thinking about it. A port of the ipone to DSi would make sense. Maybe a Wii version could be a third-person squad based game.

4. I still want to see a modern world C&C game (ie Generals 2)

5 & 6. I think a special edition should inlcude something physical that can't be easily downloadable. Booklets, posters, medallions, alternative universe coins, pewter figurines, die-cast matchbox sized orcas or mammoth tanks etc, bobble-heads, kane rings, global maps showing blue/yellow, red zones, recruitment posters, mouse pads, computer mouse, usb drives... anything *physical* makes the collector's box worth collecting.

 

.

.

.

Regarding boobs in C&C... don't you recall the GDI ending in the original C&C???

Apoc's C&C movies (go for gdi ending 1 or 2) or Recover's single GDI Campaign video (starting at 33mins 20secs) here

 

I've watched this video a million times, and I still have no idea what she is saying!

 

[Nmenth 291]

I've watched this video a million times, and I still have no idea what she is saying!

That is one boring actress, it's no wonder why you had problems keeping attention...

[Gben 20]

Aaah... so we *do* want celebrity boobs!

 

[Nmenth 291]

Flat-chested, unknown women that can act > Celebrities that acquired their fame and large paychecks by silicone rather than talent.

 

Flat-chested, unknown women that can't act < Celebrities that acquired their fame and large paychecks by talent.

Edited June 8, 2009 by Nmenth