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Nyerguds

1.06c development topic

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I've frequently seen it happening when GDI engineers stormed my Nod base, and were killed by my turrets.

 

As for the "copy-paste error", well, these are the sequences as they were originally: (taken from my ini conversion of the internal exe data)

 

Die1=146,8,0

Die2=154,8,0

Die3=162,8,0

Die4=162,12,0

Die5=182,18,0

 

(values are: start frame, length of the animation in frames, number of frames to add to start frame for each next facing)

 

The error is that the start frame of Die4 had to be 170. It definitely looks like they just copied Die3 and adapted the number of frames, but forgot to adapt the start frame :P

 

 

Oh, and I've seen FAR dumber bugs in C&C95. You know how civilians randomly wander around? That same behaviour was enabled on the chem warrior, for some reason. Really, you've seen the patch change log. There's tons of dumb stuff in there :P

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Really, you've seen the patch change log. There's tons of dumb stuff in there :P

 

True. Although I didn't experience most of them (I barely played with the chem warrior for example), so I kind of forget how long this bug list can be ^^

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Were the Orcas always so bugged in the original C&C?  If you have more than about 8 of them, the rest will just sit in their Helipads not doing anything when you tell them to attack.  If you click on a building like 20 times, they will all leave their pads at first, but most will return as if they are out of ammo.  This actually makes it impossible to mass attack and kill a Temple of Nod with Orcas.  Since only about 8 can attack it at a time, the AI will repair it before you can come back (and SAM sites will destroy you in the meantime in most missions).  Also, if you tell about 8 Orcas to target a second object after they kill the first, some of them will go back to the Helipads even though they still have ammo left.  Even if you keep clicking the second object, some of them still go back.  They are really quite bugged in large groups.

 

As a side note, I discovered something about Mammoth tanks that is quite interesting.  The rockets that they first fire when they approach the enemy - which are obviously way more useful against troops - can be fired all the time if you keep hitting "S" with the tanks selected.  This will prevent them from using the turret, and they will only fire rockets.  This makes Mammoth tanks far more useful against troops!  I wonder if Westwood purposely made it so the Mammoth tanks can only fire those rockets when they first encounter the enemy?  This trick I discovered seems to be a way around that.

 

Everyone here knows that you can sell troops by putting the money sign halfway between them and a wall, right?

Edited by Lightning_Hunter

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Thanks for the Mammoth tip, I'll try it later.

 

Personally, I wouldn't even use 8 orcas. Generally I do everything with 6, of course not so easily.

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As a side note, I discovered something about Mammoth tanks that is quite interesting. The rockets that they first fire when they approach the enemy - which are obviously way more useful against troops - can be fired all the time if you keep hitting "S" with the tanks selected. This will prevent them from using the turret, and they will only fire rockets. This makes Mammoth tanks far more useful against troops! I wonder if Westwood purposely made it so the Mammoth tanks can only fire those rockets when they first encounter the enemy? This trick I discovered seems to be a way around that.

 

The trick I always used, i think, is if you make them aim the turret away, and then have them target the infantry again, they will also shoot rockets. This makes my think that mammoth only uses rockets if the turret is not already aligned—which would also make the first shot that more likely to be missiles.

 

Besides targeting infantry, this trick is also useful because rockets sail over walls while shells don't.

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The trick I always used, i think, is if you make them aim the turret away, and then have them target the infantry again, they will also shoot rockets. This makes my think that mammoth only uses rockets if the turret is not already aligned—which would also make the first shot that more likely to be missiles.

 

Besides targeting infantry, this trick is also useful because rockets sail over walls while shells

 

Yes, I noticed this in the past also.  However, it seems to be a lot less clicking when all you have to do is have them selected and press "S" a few times.  They also seem to attack with rockets as often as possible no matter what direction they are aiming using this method. It also works great if you have a large group of them.  I never really thought about the rockets as being better for going over walls.  Thanks for that tip.

Edited by Lightning_Hunter

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"S" is the shortcut for 'stop', which means when a mammoth target something and you press S, it stop targetting and reset to iddle, if an ennemy is in its attack range when you do that, or if you give it a new order, it will fire the rockets like it does the first time it attacks something that is not straight in front of it.

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"S" is the shortcut for 'stop', which means when a mammoth target something and you press S, it stop targetting and reset to iddle, if an ennemy is in its attack range when you do that, or if you give it a new order, it will fire the rockets like it does the first time it attacks something that is not straight in front of it.

 

Yes. I know. ;)I'm an avid stop key user, because I hate when things don't listen to me. lol.

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The Mammoth simply uses its rockets when firing at an enemy it's not directly aiming at... because the secondary weapon is heatseeking and can curve towards the target.

They fixed the secondary weapon behaviour in RA1, where any unit will use the most efficient weapon it has depending on the target's armor.

 

As for the helicopters, yeah, I know, it acts weird... one way around it might be to split them in smaller teams.

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They fixed the secondary weapon behaviour in RA1, where any unit will use the most efficient weapon it has depending on the target's armor.

You say it like it's a bug, but I always considered it was an intended behaviour. It's part of the charm of this tank. I think in RA 1 the mammoth is just overpowered against infantry. In C&C it is more balanced this way.

Edited by Kamikave

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You say it like it's a bug, but I always considered it was an intended behaviour. It's part of the charm of this tank. I think in RA 1 the mammoth is just overpowered against infantry. In C&C it is more balanced this way.

 

Everything is overpowered against infantry in ra1, not just mammoths :P

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yeah, I know, it acts weird... one way around it might be to split them in smaller teams.

I tried that, but they still act the same. It appears to be an issue if too many of them exist in the map, rather than the size of the current selected group. If there are 3 small groups for example, one group might not respond at all, or several Heli's from each group.

Edited by Lightning_Hunter

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You say it like it's a bug, but I always considered it was an intended behaviour. It's part of the charm of this tank. I think in RA 1 the mammoth is just overpowered against infantry. In C&C it is more balanced this way.

Sure. But that doesn't mean it's not a bug. I'm not planning on fixing it, anyway ;)

 

I tried that, but they still act the same. It appears to be an issue if too many of them exist in the map, rather than the size of the current selected group. If there are 3 small groups for example, one group might not respond at all, or several Heli's from each group.

 

Well, just clicking several times until the stragglers come back is what I usually do. It works most of the time -_-

 

No idea what causes that, though, or how to fix it. I know very little of the way units process commands.

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You know what other "bug" has always annoyed me?  The fact that commandos are instantly shot by mini-gunners when they blow up a building.  I know this is not technically a bug, but it certainly is stupid.  Some of the commando missions in Covert Operations become pure luck, because your commando can be killed instantly after destroying a building.  You have to keep saving and loading before each building he blows up sometimes, especially if he is low health.  There should be a delay before the mini-gunners can start firing after a building is blown up.

Edited by Lightning_Hunter

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You know what other "bug" has always annoyed me? The fact that commandos are instantly shot by mini-gunners when they blow up a building. I know this is not technically a bug, but it certainly is stupid. Some of the commando missions in Covert Operations become pure luck, because your commando can be killed instantly after destroying a building. You have to keep saving and loading before each building he blows up sometimes, especially if he is low health. There should be a delay before the mini-gunners can start firing after a building is blown up.

 

Yes, that's more a flaw than a bug. Something that has been corrected in red alert, where there is no gunner spawned after a commando bombing. Rather than adding a delay before mini gunners can start firing, the easier way would be to increase the delay before the C4 explodes, giving time to the commando to really get out of firing range.

Edited by Kamikave

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Hmmm,

Annoying is using a squad of minigunners to destroy 5 barracks. This is annoying.

 

The commando risks shouldn't be changed.

 

 

[badguy]

Create a technic and stick to it.

If you fail you're not good enough to join Nod or to be in the extra payroll of GDI ... roughroughroughrough

[/badguy]

 

 

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The commando risks shouldn't be changed.

 

Are you going to give a reason why? Or are you not being serious with your post?

Edited by Lightning_Hunter

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I'm guessing it's to keep the multiplayer balanced.

Edited by Kamikave

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Perhaps it could be an option in CCConfig.exe that only applies to singleplayer then? It really is annoying when the commando missions rely on luck to destroy buildings. There are several covert operations that require your commando to blow up more than two buildings. If minigunners come out of all of the buildings, you are screwed. Sometimes if two minigunners come out of one building, you can die almost immediately.

Edited by Lightning_Hunter

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open the spoiler ...

 

I did. Your spoiler made no sense. During the Commando missions, you can still fail even if you have a perfect technique. Any time a commando is required to blow up more than one building, it's possible to fail the mission due to bad luck.

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The spoiler is (suppose to be) a joke.

 

Anyway, you might get people against or in favour of this change for many reasons. I'm an average player, so I probably had to save it some times.

 

Regarding changes in the originals, my default is to avoid changes until a lot of people say something. Loosing missions is not annoying, it's part of the game. And for the commando, there's always an edge you can run to and get less wounded (for each structure).

Yet, you'll need techcniques for everything that is annoying like sudden airstrikes or flamethrowers against infantry and so on.

 

And everyone will have a different "annoying feature" on top of its own list.

The top of my annoying list is the sound of the guntower/apache machine gun.

I've been studying how to create a personal AUD file with a lower noise or different noise, so.

 

Maybe Nyerguds can tell you where to change for your version.

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And everyone will have a different "annoying feature" on top of its own list.

Quite true. And for every requested feature there's at least one person who will complain about it if I enable it by default.

 

As for the commando stuff, I'd have to look into the whole sabotage logic to see where to change stuff. Timing related things are generally hard to change since I have no idea what the original values are. It's probably easier to make it not spawn infantry, like in RA. Making that an exception on single player level isn't hard, once I know what I actually need to change.

 

The top of my annoying list is the sound of the guntower/apache machine gun.

I've been studying how to create a personal AUD file with a lower noise or different noise, so.

That's not hard... using XCC Mixer, open sounds.mix, find Gun8.aud, then Copy as WAV (PCM). Then open the wav file in Audacity, go to Effect -> Amplify, and set it to -6 dB or something like that, and save as WAV again. Then, use the same Copy As technique to convert it back to AUD.

 

I think you can just dump the sound in your game folder, without it needing to be inside a mix file. Not 100% sure though.

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Yeah, real gameplay changes are usually avoided in a patch like this. However, there's nothing wrong with adding an *.ini option and letting people modify the missions if they please.

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