Is the RTS genre really dying?

[PurpleGaga27 40]

I doubt if I mentioned this before earlier this year, but the search in this forum did not find anything I was looking for so I decided to start a new topic of this despite of what happened this week.

 

Earlier this year, PC Gamer ran two articles about this:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/06/face-off-is-the-rts-genre-dying/

and

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/02/ironclad-rts-genre/

 

and this other article too:

http://www.rtsguru.com/article/5074/The-RTS-a-Dying-Genre-Not-So-Fast.html

 

It's still beyond questionable why most people are thinking that Blizzard will save RTS gaming just because they still had their e-sport experience and retaining the good old stuff (just like Apple). I mean Starcraft II lack three other great things that Company of Heroes had: 360 degree camera display (allowing to see the sky), support powers and unit veterancy (although there will be a SCII mod to support unit veterancy).

 

So:

1) EA flunked C&C F2P this year

2) Relic flunked COH2

3) Easy Studios saved Tiberium Alliances (but probably will be gone in the short term)

4) Trion is still active for End of Nations (still WIP)

5) Blizzard is working on SCII's second expansion (with no release date yet)

6) a future Dawn of War III is doubtful for Relic/Sega.

7) A promising RTS indie game could soon be rising: http://forums.cncnz.com/topic/18379-universum-war-front/

8) More RTS gaming is heading towards MMORTS and/or MOBA. (C&C had attempted but axed and Starcraft/Warcraft have yet to go into that direction)

 

So as to the question topic, could this be really happening?

Edited October 30, 2013 by zocom7

[Tore 33]

It's still beyond questionable why most people are thinking that Blizzard will save RTS gaming just because they still had their e-sport experience and retaining the good old stuff (just like Apple). I mean Starcraft II lack three other great things that Company of Heroes had: 360 degree camera display (allowing to see the sky), support powers and unit veterancy (although there will be a SCII mod to support unit veterancy).

 

StarCraft 2, just like StarCraft 1 has tons of "support powers". They are just part of unit/structure abilities.

 

I haven't been excited for any RTS game in a very long time. The only game that comes to mind is Planetary Annihilation which is shaping up to be a good spritual successor to Total Annihilation.

 

RTT games such as Men of War Assault Squad and WarGame AirLand Battle (soon WarGame Red Dragon and Men of War Assault Squad 2) have taken the place of RTS games for me since there really has been no releases of good RTS games lately. When I get the RTS itch I usually go play C&C1, RA1 or the Cold War Crisis mod for Generals Zero Hour.

[Chimas 7]

Sometimes I think, RTS will have to be done thru things like Kickstarter.

You have to clear of some risks and annoy big companies to the point of making them wanting your game.

Otherwise they will take this episode as the standard procedure: they get a studio and keep promising things for 2 years, and then, they dismiss everybody next morning.

[MrFlibble 31]

I haven't been excited for any RTS game in a very long time.

What about 0 A.D.?

[Guest Stevie_K]

Interesting debate.

 

I believe that in a time where time is shorter and more valuable than ever, only few people have the patience and interest to take on complex RTS games. It is a niche, a big one at that, but still I definitely believe it has become a niche within modern games for gamers.

 

I don't think the RTS genre is dying, but we are at a point where games like C&C needs to adapt to how people play nowadays. You can't expect people to invest a lot time into learning how to play a game and have fun with it (at least that goes for most people now). On top of that, the games need to better adapt to modern economic models in order to get revenue, which seems to have been hard for communities to swallow. Yes I am thinking microtransactions here. Perhaps there's much to learn from games like Leage of Legends.

[Gben 20]

Kickstarter or a small independent developer - or both.

Is my hope for the RTS future.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

The RTS genre isn't dying. It's on hiatus. The savior for this genre will be a properly done MMORTS. Unfortunately, I don't think End of Nations will be that savior.

[HeadClot 0]

The RTS genre isn't dying. It's on hiatus. The savior for this genre will be a properly done MMORTS. Unfortunately, I don't think End of Nations will be that savior.

 

Oh boy... Where to start.

 

I am currently backing an MMORTS on kickstarter. Here is the Link. It has been 100% funded by the devs of the game up to this point.

 

Also you have a PM Inbound.

[PerfectDeath 3]

The RTS genre isn't dying. It's on hiatus. The savior for this genre will be a properly done MMORTS. Unfortunately, I don't think End of Nations will be that savior.

Oh god, I really have to hold back my sales pitch here.

I am one of the devs for an MMORTS that is 6 months form completion; however, as we have announced on our very recent livestream the MMORTS is a genre that has few metrics. Thus, we're needing to launch a kickstarter to push our 6 remaining months of development to get more stuff in by launch.

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2122031929/novus-aeterno-a-true-aaa-mmorts

 

Our team are avid strategy gamers who really wanted to play this kind of game, but no one was making one. So, 7 years later, we're emerging form our caves.

I'll stop this here to avoid any topic take over, but I do want to bring up that there are still some strong RTS games emerging.

 

Some of these tend to bring very new and experimental twists to the RTS genre.

Some go down the very tactical route like Men of War, this game has not recieved much notice due to the lack of replay support. It is very difficult to create replay files with that kind of engine (everything is under the effect of physics, no dice rolling accuracy, just spread).

These generally break away from the older traditional mechanics of RTS games. I do think it is out of intimidation of titans like Star Craft.

 

curses... guess I took too long, someone from our stream already beat me to commenting here about NA, I was nerding out too much. =P

Edited November 25, 2013 by PerfectDeath

[Guest Rabbit]

Christ... 200 grand?

 

Y'all should have started with a smaller number. I really hope this works out for you though.

[PerfectDeath 3]

If only game development was that cheap. =P

 

Skull Girls reported that they would need $250 grand for a single character.

[Sonic 295]

Oh cool.... some Kickstarter spam on our forums.

[PerfectDeath 3]

Should I open a new topic? I did not intend to derail this topic. (I was hoping for some good conversation about the current RTS market developments outside of the MMOs)

[Guest Stevie_K]

I think it looks interesting. Best of luck to you guys. ​

 

Oh cool.... some Kickstarter spam on our forums.

 

PerfectDeath is simply adding to the discussion by referring to a relevant game in development that could use support. I don't see any harm in that.

[Sonic 295]

Should I open a new topic? I did not intend to derail this topic. (I was hoping for some good conversation about the current RTS market developments outside of the MMOs)

 

Might be a good idea. Would help keep the discussion more relevant.

 

PerfectDeath is simply adding to the discussion by referring to a relevant game in development that could use support. I don't see any harm in that.

 

Actually, I was just making a joke.

 

Personally I would never back any project on Kickstarter. Not even if we ever saw Command & Conquer on there. All power to anyone using Kickstarter to get their projects off the ground. But the real AAA games require funding right away, not some false promises from total strangers. Its just the way I see it.

[Guest Stevie_K]

Hehe, oh well.

 

Kickstarter is great for making creative and innovative projects come true, but it's a tough road and tossing your money into a project is always a gamble.

However, some projects might see the light that never would have otherwise.

[PerfectDeath 3]

Funding is definitly one of the factors that influences the development of RTS games. A more traditional design can be a difficult sell in a market where very vocal people will discredit it for "not innovating" without realizing that polishing a title requires iterations to build on itself.

Even with the title I am working on the new and never seen before stuff grabs people's attention first. However, I have found that what keeps someone playing is not the new bells and whistles, it is the core gameplay and balance.

[HeadClot 0]

Might be a good idea. Would help keep the discussion more relevant.

 

 

Actually, I was just making a joke.

 

Personally I would never back any project on Kickstarter. Not even if we ever saw Command & Conquer on there. All power to anyone using Kickstarter to get their projects off the ground. But the real AAA games require funding right away, not some false promises from total strangers. Its just the way I see it.

 

Personally, If EA Put Command and Conquer on Kickstarter or anyother site I would be calling Shenanigans. They have the money to make Command and Conquer (Insert Number here).

Why ask for money if you already have it.

 

Also fund Innovation not the same thing that was released last year. I am currently playing Novus AEterno and the game is well worth its asking price.

I am trying to get a stream of the game up and going but my internet is being well slow.

 

Sorry for the long rant.

[Chimas 7]

I agree with Jehal about the time consuming issue of an RTS.

My initial bet would be making a cross-genre game. You start playing it as a RTT. Say like you first specialize in squadron game-play style. Instead of joining a campaign, you play small missions with the same combat squadron. Then you have 2 options: move to another type of squadron and receive new missions or move to another level of squadron management with more different units to deal with.

 

So, this would be 2 directions for the player, but I'm not sure how appealing that could be. This format would be targeted to new RTS players (players not familiar to the genre) and would keep up (theoretically) with the regular RTS players. By the time your learning curve evolves it is already an RTS. And if you're not into the strategy element you can keep playing it as a video-game in the squadron level.

 

The other important thing I think the RTS game should be able to provide is to be accessible or open-minded in terms of map making and modding. The player should be free to expand the sub-universes of the game. This activity could be seen by the studio as a way to generate a secondary market of the game. Instead of launching an expansion, be the dealer of the fan made games. The studio stays focused in patches and quality control and let the fans trade about the creativity of the established universe, by making maps, units and backstories.

 

This is not a conviction, I went on improvising on the ideas.

[PurpleGaga27 40]

Sometimes I think, RTS will have to be done thru things like Kickstarter.

You have to clear of some risks and annoy big companies to the point of making them wanting your game.

Otherwise they will take this episode as the standard procedure: they get a studio and keep promising things for 2 years, and then, they dismiss everybody next morning.

 

The problem is that EA never use Kickstarter to bring back C&C (or other titles -- not even Dune series) unless it's the fans to bring it back with donations.

Edited November 26, 2013 by zocom7

[PerfectDeath 3]

Solo, that reminded me of some RTS mods where the moders hosted a website where you could customize a card "deck" which the player could bring into the mod's online battles, level up, etc.

 

Only game I know off hand that does that is wargame.

[HeadClot 0]

Solo, that reminded me of some RTS mods where the moders hosted a website where you could customize a card "deck" which the player could bring into the mod's online battles, level up, etc.

 

Only game I know off hand that does that is wargame.

 

One mod that comes to mind is Europe in Ruins for Company of Heroes.

[PerfectDeath 3]

yup, after that mod I thought, why hasn't relic or someone else done this yet?

[TheBlackOut 6]

I haven't been excited for any RTS game in a very long time. The only game that comes to mind is Planetary Annihilation which is shaping up to be a good spritual successor to Total Annihilation.

 

I'm in the beta for this game (donated to the Kickstarter when they first tried to get funds) and I haven't gotten to play it a lot due to finals coming up and Thanksgiving break mostly being spent with friends and family, but the game is wicked fun. It's a blast to play and the AI is pretty wickedly crafty.

 

For those not in the know,

 

[media=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He0NCeSxnAU][/media]

 

There's many more recent videos on YouTube and other reviews, discussions elsewhere, etc but it gives you a general idea of the mayhem that occurs in this game.