Next U.S.S.R?

[BWare 0]

GeneralZ: You are exactly right in pretty much every point there

 

apocolyp4: Yes, the Russians did overwhelm the Germans, and actually reached Berlin before the Allies. However, you just can't ignore the massive contribution that America made to your war effort. Without our supplies and manpower, you guys could easily have been crippled, and possibly even invaded. The Russians wouldn't really have any vested interest in saving much of Western Europe anyway... maybe to expand their own borders. Just admit that America played a crucial role in the liberation of Europe, and I'll be happy :wink:.

[akbob 0]

One of the major factors that led to the downfall of Germany in WWII was that the Japanese attacked America instead of Russia. if russia had been forced to wage war on two fronts they likely would have lost. American isolationist policy would have lasted untill the soviets and europe had fallen. without allies and with no place to land in europe, waging war on two fronts america would have fallen. the current language would depend on whether the german or japanese armies had taken higher losses. the nation with the advantage would have declared war, and conquered the other. the world would have been unified under a terrifying and cruel facist rule. as far as an american war with china, the result was made apparent during the Korean War. more advanced tech, artillery, and air supremacy versus 3/4 million guys with soviet era armaments will end in a long drawn out conflict that will cripple and destroy both involved parties(100 years war), or internal pressure on both sides would force some sort of a peace resolution. America's war record is not perfect, but every nation loses wars. Rome, the nation that in my humble opinion was the most powerful nation of all time(not called the eternal empire for no reason), had much greater defeats than Vietnam. i hold up for example the legions that they sent to quell the rebellions in gaul. four legions were decimated, with nearly no survivors, trying and failing to conquer it. they were slaughtered with nothing to show for it. about 20,000 men in an era where to kill someone you had to stab them, and factoring in population differences between 1960's america and rome, is a worse defeat than vietnam. (yet again, in my humble opinion) not to say vietnam wasn't a defeat. 1812, however, was not a complete defeat. america remained a nation. having the capitol torched doesn't mean defeat. if it did, britain lost WWII. the capitol was bombed and buzzed worse than washington was burned in 1812. somalia was a lack of effort and a politician who spent 2102400 minutes in his term trying to get reelected.(for those of you who are lazy, that is 35040 hours or 1460 days or 4 years or his whole term) bay of pigs was the mentally retarded brainchild of kennedy and the CIA director. not america's most brilliant moment. in summary, post vietnam american defeats have been caused by selfish politicians and low levels of public support. History lesson/Insane rant is over.

[Gazdude 0]

oh man... this thread is about REAL LIFE, Gazdude. Now that is just embarrassing.

 

I was simply stating that this part of the game was based on reality

 

...and we didn't attack China in the past because we had no reason to do so.:

 

If your country knew it could win, it wouldve made up a reason to attack like it does everything else...

[BWare 0]

Wow. The thoughts of a simpleton.

 

I was simply stating that this part of the game was based on reality

Okay... a simple lesson in logic here, Gazdude. The game may be based on reality, but that does not mean that it can be used as the ONLY supporting evidence for an argument in the REAL WORLD. Real life can apply to the game, but the game DOES NOT apply to real life. Yikes. It really is scary when that line between fiction and reality starts to blur...

 

If your country knew it could win, it wouldve made up a reason to attack like it does everything else...

Like what else? You need some sort of supporting evidence here dude. And, for the LOVE OF GOD, make sure it's something other than an example from a VIDEO GAME. Oh man.....

Okay, if America just invaded any country it thought it could beat, as you so subtly implied here, then we would truly be a colonial monstrosity, making even the British empire of old pale in comparison. As I said before, America resorts to action like that only when necessary. I gues it takes a while for some people to get this kind of thing... but don't worry, I'm patient.

[Azrael 0]

BWare wrote:

oh, we can handle it Very Happy

The US military is the single greatest force this planet has ever seen... plus, none of the civilized world would stand for a move like that on China's part. It just ain't gonna happen. Nuclear weapons have effectively stopped territorial expansion like that. The natural flow of conquest and war has been abruptly halted by the proliferation of nuclear weapons. Invade a country, get nuked.

 

Oh, and I think that America handled the double war with Japan and Germany just splendidly in WWII. Since then, America has grown in power even further. We're not afraid of a 2 front war Wink, and China will not be dumb enough to start one.

 

I don't think so. Russia has a heavy nuclear arsenal. Especially because they have the 80-Megaton H-Bomb, the most powerful nike the world's ever known. U.S. only has a 20-Megaton H-Bomb as a super nuke. Plus, it's about to become useless as nukes have a lifetime. China also has developed capabilities to launch Nuclear ICBMs & in a freak accident, a test non-nuclear ICBM hit U.S. territory.

[Azrael 0]

BWare wrote:

Oh, and I think that America handled the double war with Japan and Germany just splendidly in WWII.

 

Hm... That happend with a terrible loss. They abandoned Philippines after the Japanese attacked. I'm a Filipino, and I couldn't think how horrifying it was for the survivors of The Bataan Death March. Also, the U.S. did not give proper weapons to the Philippines during WW2. By the way, Corrigedor (the fortress of Phillipines during WW2) was captured too easily. Gen. McArthur had to retreat. "I shall return." was his last words before retreating to Austrailia. President Manuel L. Quezon of the Phillipines during that time said, "Pity how the U.S. worries about a distant cousin (Britain) while a daughter (Phillipines) is being r**d back door."

[GeneralZ 0]

What good is a hydrogen bomb if you shoot down the bomber carrying it before it gets to the target? We can shoot down planes fairly easily. Russia and China have long range missiles, but so does the US. We are fully capable of hitting Russia and China. In fact, we're developing out missiles defence system. There's been quite a few problems like guidance and targeting during testing but thats going to be corrected.

[GeneralZ 0]

and we did kick the Japanese back to their islands, we won back the islands like rabual, Iwo Jima, Miway, Guadacanal, etc. We dropped a nuke on Japan. 2 nukes in fact. Again, our superior numbes and technological advantage over the Japanese overcame their sneak attacks early in the war. Again our huge productivity was the major and most important factor during WWII. For example, Japan could ony build a few carriers a year, while we could build dozens of the largest size available in additions to numerous smaller size ones. Russia prevailed because we sent tanks and equipment there. Th German military during WWII was the most admirable force. They had good weapons and tacitcs. The problem was mutiple fronts and several insane leaders. For example, Hitler believed the bigger, the better. He removed some important projects and started some useless ones, like a creating the elephant. A humongous gun on tread that was extremely slow and inmaneuvarable and was easily destroyed by infantry and tanks coming up from the sides and behind. Well they did have quite a few geniuses.

[apocolyp4 0]

BWare i did not mean that America did contribute a lot in WW2 in fact they contributed alot. What i was meaing they were not the main reason germany lost.

 

Genralz Midway was a naval battle as the japanese aircraft fleet force was almost wiped out in what was called the turkey shoot (as turkeys arrent that good at dodging bullets). Midway was not captured by the japanese and was the turning point in the naval was against japan.

Les not forget in mainland Asia where British and Commonwealth forces had pushed back the Japanese as they approached India.

The biggest battle involving japan occured a few days before the surrender between russian and Japanese troops in Manchuria where the russians defeated the japanese.

[GeneralZ 0]

I know that that Midway isn't an island. I meant Iwo Jima and Rabaul, etc. But the main reason for Japan's defeat was because we forced them to spend and lose manpower and forces fighting us. If Japan had not sent most of its troops to fight the Americans on the islands, than they might not have been defeated in Asia. They had taken over indonesia, indochina, etc. They had their raw materials frim their conquered territories and were pretty powerful, but were no match for us.

[apocolyp4 0]

I dont think anyone can argue about America out produing and over powering the japanese in the end but the japanese did not divert many troops from fighting in mainland asia as it was their priority especialty manjuria but they did make sure that they had most of their experience pilots and most aircraft sent back to the mainland to defend it from the american bombing. If the A-Bombs werent drop it was estimited that at least 1 million allied casulties would be expected if they did try to invade the mainland as there was still a large well trained army in japan as well as 14 million people in their "home guard".

Another interesting thing if the war with japan lasted onto 1946 was that the british were developing a jet aircraft that could land and take out from the sea to fight against the japanses it was scraped after the japanese surrender.

[Azrael 0]

Also, the U.S. thermonuclear armament is deteriorating. Russia, on the other hand, still has a very powerful 80-Megaton(!) H-Bomb while the U.S. only has a 20-Megaton H-Bomb. And, FYI, Russia can deploy it's missiles without using bombers. I also have seen the National Geographic's show about space travel &, Russia, at that time, had some thermonuclear satteilites orbiting earth. When one collides with earth, there is NO way the U.S. has won. Russia will win. Plus, they developed an orbital Missile Shield, which isn't easy to breach, as it is deployed in space. It just shoots down the U.S. nukes before they get near Russian territory. And, yeah, I agree that the British have a jet aircraft that time. In fact, even the Germans did. The British has the Goblin Parasite fighter, which is jet-propelled, has double machineguns & can be carried by the British Lancaster Bombers and are to defend the bombers. The Germans, on the other hand, has the Natter aircraft, a crazy experiment. The plane has only one missile salvo (one rocket) and no landing gear. Of course, it's jet proppeled. Each Natter can only be used ONCE. It was so fast that it terrified U.S. and British pilots when they encountered them. Then there's the Wasserfall Guided AA missile. You can guess what it is just by looking a the name. Also the Strumtiger tank, which has a VERY POWERFUL cannon that can anniahilate infantry and tanks easily. Also the Flying Wing, a jet-proppeled bomber made by the British. It can either be loaded with missiles or bombs. Search these things in Google, and I swear that the exist. Henceforth, these are the top-secret weapons of world war 2. :roll:

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Half of these, I never heard of. Then again, I never Goggled them. Russia aint what it used to be, and if the Airforce and Nasa would get their heads out of the local lotery spitbucket, all of the Russian missile satelites would be sitting under Cheyene mountain or headed for the sun. And the whoevers that fund military anti-missile department screwed up, the current missile defense system sucks! It would be more effective to use FB-22's to shoot down incoming missiles. And the US said it wouldnt make anymore nukes, either they are very stupid or they are relying on newer, more advanced weaponry (if Area 51 or something similar doesnt exist, then I doubt this is true) But the rumored DESTINY project is no match for a nuclear arsenal. But it could cripple launch facilities.

 

By the way, DESTINY had or has something to do with earthquakes. And for those of you who are possible crazy, start a new thread to discuss the recent earthquakes and Tsunamis being caused by test failure of DESTINY

 

 

And no, I'm not crazy.

[BWare 0]

oh for heaven's sake.... :roll:

 

Isn't that from a bad movie or something? Earthquakes have always happened and will always happen. There doesn't have to be a massive government conspiracy behind everything. Sheesh.

 

And no, America is not stupid because we have stopped manufacturing nuclear weapons... the Cold War is over, dude. We already have enough nukes to destroy the planet many times over anyway. Any more seems like overkill, don't you think?

[Luk3us 63]

That DESTINY thing was in the movie "The Core"... Which by the way was boring and highly predictable.

[BWare 0]

oh yeah... THAT'S where it's from!

 

Yikes... do you believe every crappy formula Armageddon knockoff you see, Cygnus? Geez. I think it's time to learn to seperate fiction from reality.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Not my idea. I posted that for the record. Some person keeps messaging my inbox all kinds of stupid stuff, that was one of them. Like I said, I'm not crazy, or stupid. And as was mentioned before, the nukes have a limited lifetime. While China and North Korea and India and who knows what other nations have fresh nukes, ours are pretty much useless(give 'em a few years) If we dont have something other than our big mouths holding these other nations in check, the right spark could start the wrong war.

 

Listen to Manhattan Project

Power Wnidows, 1985 AnthemEntertainment, Mercury Records,

 

RUSH

[BWare 0]

ufortunately, it became your idea when you posted it. You seperate yourself from stupid ideas by saying "this is what this guy says (insert source)." But don't worry about it... we forgive you

 

About the degrading of the nukes... I'm pretty sure that America's scientists know a little bit about their shelf life. We did create them. Do you really believe that America, the single superpower on earth, would be stupid enough to abandon its nuke supremecy? Trust me... there is PLENTY holding the nations in check... more than you or I can even see. We're living in post Cold War times. A nuke attack by any country would result in their own annhialation. Simple as that. No one wants to take that chance... nuclear aggression = suicide.

[J-Fire_Man 0]

Bah....whatever you say

[Azrael 0]

Aside from degrading nukes, America's Thermonuclear scientists are dwindling in numbers. Most of them have alredy died. The remaining scientists are desperate to train younger scientists.

[BWare 0]

Yeah... the Cold War is over. We don't need as many "thermonuclear scientists." Those who have died have probably written some stuff down in the course of their work.......

[J-Fire_Man 0]

You guys even didn't win the cold war properly, if the treaty wasn't successful, Soviet will win the cold war I think. Bah....anyway, whatever you say.

[BWare 0]

We didn't win it properly? What is that supposed to mean? Are you for the commies or what?

[General immeyourenot 0]

Well if you knew history properly neither power actually won the cold war.

 

However. had it come to nuclear war, the USSR had far more potential to nuke the USA off face of the earth than vice versa.

[BWare 0]

yeah... yeah, I definitely know history "properly," and know that America did in fact win the cold war.... oh, and were it not for the GENIUS of Ronald Reagan, and had it come to nuclear war, America had a definite leg up. Your "proper" understanding of history seems to forget about the American Strategic Air Command (SAC). We had B2 bombers carrying nuclear payloads constantly in the air and ready to nuke Russia off the map at a moment's notice. Russia had no such program, and DEFINITELY didn't have "far more potential" to nuke America.

 

Your claim that no one actually won the Cold War is really very strange... please elaborate and set me straight if I'm way off base here.