Religious beliefs

[Acerz492 1]

6000 years??? I don't where did you get that. I never read other holy books other than mine, in mine the evolution of the universe took 6 era, and each era took million years, not 6000 years.

 

I dunno about you, Fenring, but that sentance tells me that in J-Fire's 'Holy Book', the Universe evolved in 6 million years.

 

6 million years ago our primate ancestors were just learning to stand up on two legs. :wink:

 

Scientists at a lab used modern dating methods on rock from Mt. Saint Helens (a volcanic eruption in 1983) not knowing where it was from, and were 8 BILLION YEARS OFF

 

You say that the rock in question was from Mt. St. Helen's, right? Then how the hell did scientists -NOT- know where it was from? :roll: Get your facts straight fool. No rock on Earth is 8 Billion years old.

 

That statement dosen't tell us anything anyway. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. -Not- 8 billion years old. If you're telling us that then it contradicts your whole arguement anyway, which is that God created the Universe in 6,000 years or so. :roll:

[Guest Rabbit]

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. -Not- 8 billion years old.

 

4.6 Billion to be exact. :lol:

[F15pilotX 4]

Acerz, they told the scientists to date the rock WITHOUT TELLING THEM WHERE IT CAME FROM. :roll:

[Doctor Destiny 41]

If it were volcanic, it would have been older than any surface rock. :roll:

[Guest Rabbit]

Acerz, they told the scientists to date the rock WITHOUT TELLING THEM WHERE IT CAME FROM. :roll:

 

Does it really matter where the rock came from? Point is, if it didn't come from earth, it was probably from an asteroid or something. Just cause it's from MT. Saint Helens doesn't make any difference at all.

[Waraddict 0]

The following reply is to all the posts sent since my last post.

 

I wish far fewer people fell under religion's mind control but that's not going to happen with all the idiots milling about in society.

 

Not so much in physical ways but in the abstract. Cygnus is referring more to human nature, which is very flawed. Backstabbing/unloyalty, greedy behavior and a disregard for other life... I'd consider those flaws in the human psyche.

 

Put those two things together Fenring, that is the summation of an Athiest world, yes people have killed and done other evil things in the name of religion but it was not because of the religion, it's because of the flaw of the human psyche, religion represses this flaw to a certain degree but it does not fix it entirely, some people expect it to and so lose their trust in religion and assume an athiest society is the way to go, wrong, this is another typical flaw in the human psyche which thinks 'if we find we are unsuccessful in something, try the complete opposite approach', what you will find in an athiest society, although a good amount of people would be decent, humanity's full psycological flaw would be exposed, you will see people much more people kill in the name of greed, anger, entertainment then before as there would be no moral standards.

 

Yes Religion is not free of its own share of evil, but that's because of the simple fact humans are its followers, No is Religion the cause of this evil, we are.

 

How do we even know there is a creator? Logically, there would be a creator but how do we know? We don't and in all seriousness, we can't know.

 

No, we don't know, if we knew we wouldn't need faith, God's not testing our loyalty much if he simply let us know. We BELIEVE in God, just as you BELIEVE in the non-existence of God, infact, when it comes down to it, there's more proof towards God then the non-God, the universe itself.

 

Ugh.. Denial is a horrible thing... Especially in the absence of any "decent" proof..

 

That's not denial coming from Cygnus, it's faith, and faith is a vital element of life, if you have no faith, who's to say what you see, hear, smell, touch is all true? This is why Athiesm does not make sense, true Athiesm is Nihilism, and if you are a Nihilist you're waisting your life.

 

Also, what in your opinion luk3us IS proof? To quote my post earlier.

 

Athiesm for example doesn't understand religion's concept of God, God is the creator of the Universe and for some reason they believe his existence can only be proved in his creation (the universe), which is sort of right, the Universe itself is evidence but I think Athiests are looking for a signature under a rock somewhere...

 

To summerise, if you think religion is what's wrong in the world today, you're wrong, Athiesm does more damage, but that still isn't the reason, though it is sometimes a sympton of the reason, it's us, as we get greedier, more materialistic and have richer trouble free lives, we chuck God out the window, thinking he didn't have a hand in our success.

 

Of course, the other half of Athiests are those that lose faith because they're niave and expect God (when they believed) to take care of everything for them.

 

I will assert though, that you can be good person and be athiest, sure I have a few freinds who are, but Athiests are certainly not in a position to judge religion (mainly because they don't understand it) and definitely cannot debate it, rather they try to poke fun or create doubt in followers instead (can be subconsciously).

[F15pilotX 4]

Acerz, they told the scientists to date the rock WITHOUT TELLING THEM WHERE IT CAME FROM. :roll:

Does it really matter where the rock came from? Point is, if it didn't come from earth, it was probably from an asteroid or something. Just cause it's from MT. Saint Helens doesn't make any difference at all.

 

One thing before I clarify this: I WAS wrong about the 8 million years, as you will see later on :oops: I was too lazy to look it up, but now I have...

 

My Proof:

 

"In June of 1992, Dr. [steven] Austin collected a 15 lb. block of dacite from high on the lava dome of [Mount Saint Helens]. A portion of this sample was crushed, sieved, and processed into a whole rock powder as well as four mineral concentrates. These were submitted for potassium-argon analysis to Geochron Laboratories of Cambridge, MA, a high quality, professional radioisotope dating laboratory. The only information provided to the laboratory was that the samples came from dacite and that "low ar. The laboratory was not told that the specimen came from the lava dome at Mount St. Helens and was only 10 years old. The results of this analysis, shown in Figure 2 (below), were recently published."

 

the results were (In millions of years):

 

Whole Rock- .05 to .35

Feldspar-.06 to .34

Amphibole- .2 to .9

Pyroxene- .3/.6 to 1.7/2.8

 

Creationists say the earth is about 6,000 years old: if you average that by this measurement, the creationist:evolutionist ratio in time is, respectively, 6,000 [years]:1,680,000,000 (1.68 billion years)

 

My point: Modern dating methods are inaccurate, and since evolutionists base their whole theory on the how old the earth is, the theory of evolution is out of date, and completely WRONG :roll:

 

Any questions :wink:

 

EDIT: The source site

[Guest Rabbit]

Yes. One question...

 

You do realize that most creationists aren't scientists who actually take the time to figure out the origins of earth, right? How would they know how long this world has been around?

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Put those two things together Fenring, that is the summation of an Athiest world, yes people have killed and done other evil things in the name of religion but it was not because of the religion, it's because of the flaw of the human psyche, religion represses this flaw to a certain degree but it does not fix it entirely, some people expect it to and so lose their trust in religion and assume an athiest society is the way to go, wrong, this is another typical flaw in the human psyche which thinks 'if we find we are unsuccessful in something, try the complete opposite approach', what you will find in an athiest society, although a good amount of people would be decent, humanity's full psycological flaw would be exposed, you will see people much more people kill in the name of greed, anger, entertainment then before as there would be no moral standards.

Text bolded to highlight your insanity. Religion can bring out the worst in people. Not all cases but there are many more than you want to acknowlegde. *coughwestborobaptsistchurchcough*

 

Let me tell you this right now. Atheists are not against religion in any way or form. Atheists deny the existance of a god... that is the true definition of atheism. You mentioned nihilism later on in your post and that's not where every atheist falls. But I do prefer to place my 'faith' in something that is more substantial than "people were told this a long time ago."

 

Yes Religion is not free of its own share of evil, but that's because of the simple fact humans are its followers, No is Religion the cause of this evil, we are.

Religion created the division among humans that is the root of the evils of which you speak. So thinking logically, religion is the root of all evil.

 

No, we don't know, if we knew we wouldn't need faith, God's not testing our loyalty much if he simply let us know. We BELIEVE in God, just as you BELIEVE in the non-existence of God, infact, when it comes down to it, there's more proof towards God then the non-God, the universe itself.

Actually, there is no proof of a God... just a simple belief. The universe isn't proof of anything but existance. You believe what you want and I'll do the same so long as you don't harass me for having a differing belief.

 

That's not denial coming from Cygnus, it's faith, and faith is a vital element of life, if you have no faith, who's to say what you see, hear, smell, touch is all true? This is why Athiesm does not make sense, true Athiesm is Nihilism, and if you are a Nihilist you're waisting your life.

 

Also, what in your opinion luk3us IS proof? To quote my post earlier.

It is denial... denial of proof. What makes faith so important? And if it was so goddamn important, why do I see it as a waste of time? Faith is important to those who want it to be.

 

Atheism denies the existance of any god(s) of any religion. So in effect, if I don't believe in any god(s), I'm wrong. Is that it? It must be since that's what you god-fearing folk keep telling me.

 

By the way, being able to see and touch something seems to help out its credibility.

 

No, "true" atheism is not nihilism. Go look it up, there's a huge difference between atheists and nihilists. Biiiiiiiiiiiig ****ing difference.

 

To summerise, if you think religion is what's wrong in the world today, you're wrong, Athiesm does more damage, but that still isn't the reason, though it is sometimes a sympton of the reason, it's us, as we get greedier, more materialistic and have richer trouble free lives, we chuck God out the window, thinking he didn't have a hand in our success.

 

Of course, the other half of Athiests are those that lose faith because they're niave and expect God (when they believed) to take care of everything for them.

How does denying your god do damage? Is it because you're finally being challenged and are finding people aren't as gullible and stupid as they once were? Are you running low on money? What's the deal here?

 

Religion has done very little in the way of good... during ANY period of time. The current age, Roman times, the Crusades... millions upon millions of dead mother****ers... All dead for not believing in the same thing you do. If you ask me, religion does more damage than it prevents.

 

Don't chuck greedy mother****ers in with my group of people. I'm not an atheist because I have rich success in life, nor is it because I've not recieved assistance for your god... I'm an atheist because I have a tendency to form my own opinions, something you religious folks have a hard time dealing with. Well, maybe I am a nihilist but you know something, it sure is better being free from your religious mind control.

 

I will assert though, that you can be good person and be athiest, sure I have a few freinds who are, but Athiests are certainly not in a position to judge religion (mainly because they don't understand it) and definitely cannot debate it, rather they try to poke fun or create doubt in followers instead (can be subconsciously).

Here's what I understand: religion has convinced you that there's an invisible man, living in the sky who watches everything you do every minute of every day and he has a list of 10 things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of those things, he will send you to a place of fire, smoke, anguish and torture until the end of time but he loves you.

 

That's what I understand. I hate to say it but religion is nothing more than one big bull**** story. And if I may be allowed a pun here... HOLY ****!

 

Oh wait, I just made fun of religion...

 

By the way, I don't try to create doubt... I just get people using their minds instead of blindly following something that will never make sense.

[Waraddict 0]

Here's what I understand: religion has convinced you that there's an invisible man, living in the sky who watches everything you do every minute of every day and he has a list of 10 things he doesn't want you to do. And if you do any of those things, he will send you to a place of fire, smoke, anguish and torture until the end of time but he loves you.

 

BINGO! THAT'S the typical Athiest summation of religion, you will never find someone who has the proper idea of religion and is an athiest, why? Because if you DID understand religion, you'd believe in it.

 

Oh, and I never said the majority of Athiests are true nihilists, rather what I meant was Athiesm itself does not make sense, if you cannot have faith, then you are a nihilist, if you can, then you are religious, you cannot draw the line logically where faith stops and non-faith starts as Athiesm does.

 

Oh and please humour me and provide me your proof that God doesn't exist, you will find that in terms of belief and non-belief, physical proof, besides the universe itself, does not exist for either, therefore logic points more in the direction of the existence of God (due to existence of us and universe) rather then the non-existence of God. The only reason you don't believe in God is because of a partial nihilistic belief which constantly nags "But do we really know God exists?" or that you misunderstand God so much that you express your anger towards him by acerting yourself as an 'Athiest'.

 

And don't tell me an Athiest world would do better then religion, the full negative psyche of humanity would then be exposed simply because there is nothing to standardise morality and a persons interpretation of right and wrong will be completely up to them. (I am not saying all humanity will turn evil, rather humanity will turn as evil as it can). It is niave to assume humanity will somehow work out better ideas of right and wrong without religion.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

BINGO! THAT'S the typical Athiest summation of religion, you will never find someone who has the proper idea of religion and is an athiest, why? Because if you DID understand religion, you'd believe in it.

And someone doesn't understand sarcasm. See? Here's that lack of critical thinking I'm talking about when it comes to you religious people.

 

So tell me, what is the proper definition of religion? My sarcastic answer seems pretty damn close to me.

 

Oh, and I never said the majority of Athiests are true nihilists, rather what I meant was Athiesm itself does not make sense, if you cannot have faith, then you are a nihilist, if you can, then you are religious, you cannot draw the line logically where faith stops and non-faith starts as Athiesm does.

I deny there is a god and think logically. What is so hard to understand about that? I don't have faith in the same thing you do. How does thinking for yourself and explaining the same mysteries in your own way "not make sense?"

 

Oh and please humour me and provide me your proof that God doesn't exist, you will find that in terms of belief and non-belief, physical proof, besides the universe itself, does not exist for either, therefore logic points more in the direction of the existence of God (due to existence of us and universe) rather then the non-existence of God. The only reason you don't believe in God is because of a partial nihilistic belief which constantly nags "But do we really know God exists?" or that you misunderstand God so much that you express your anger towards him by acerting yourself as an 'Athiest'.

I can't prove a god doesn't exist and you can't prove one does. There's evidence on both sides but it's not enough, nor is it clearly defined or absolute. Neither side will 'win' this argument. I deny gods exist and you place your faith in one.

 

I don't believe in [your] god because I think for myself. I see the mixed signals coming from religion and it bothers me that people who are so 'religious' can be so immoral. Take a long, hard look at some of the people of your faith. Kinda hard for me to believe the same thing if someone can really tell us that god "let 9/11 happen" or "sent the tsunami in Asia because we're sinners." If that really is the case, I don't want any part of your religion or your faith.

 

And don't tell me an Athiest world would do better then religion, the full negative psyche of humanity would then be exposed simply because there is nothing to standardise morality and a persons interpretation of right and wrong will be completely up to them. (I am not saying all humanity will turn evil, rather humanity will turn as evil as it can). It is niave to assume humanity will somehow work out better ideas of right and wrong without religion.

We still have rule of law. I'm sure someone down the line would realize that murder is a bad idea and would make it socially unacceptable, as it is now. Humanity sucks because of your goddamn religions so don't tell me humanity is all evil. It only is right now because of the bull**** you nutters spew on a daily basis.

 

You guys need another Commandment: "Keep your religion to yourself." In short, don't bother me with it or try to convince me I'm wrong. You won't... it just isn't gonna happen.

[Waraddict 0]

Calm down, use logic there and realise I never promoted shoving religion down someones throught, we're in a topic that debates religion and you just told me to keep my religion to myself, what do you want? to debate religion amongst athiests only?

 

Of course religions will have maniacs and immoral people following them, religion is believed by people, people can be like that, its not because of the religion. Also Laws are irrelevant in the discussion, considering Laws should exist in both a fully religious and a fully athiest society we can simply disregard their relevance in the discussion, religion would compel people to be morality correct much more (which includes following laws) then the absence of religion which may tempt people to ignore laws. It's not exactly black and white though, you will get mixes such as religious finatics making their own law but their just hypocrites.

 

I shouldn't really be talking about religion in general though, you can easily have a negative religion which would be much worse then athiesm, e.g. Satanism, specifically I should be talking about the religions which positively follow God.

 

Anyway, all I am trying to get across is that religion of course is not perfect, simply because of the human factor, we tend to interpret things our own way for our own goals sometimes and we would still do this without religion. Athiesm is certainly not the answer to our problems though, it's just a desperate attempt to try something different without properly assessing the real problem, we need to stop people misusing religion for their own use, stop them from interpreting it their own way.

[Guest Rabbit]

Worse than Atheism? So, in a way, you are saying things like Atheism and Satanism or something like that is bad?

 

So, what, are all christians/jews just better than all of us, just cause we believe differently?

[Acerz492 1]

It's common practise for someone deluded by religion to say stuff like that. This gives them an "air of superiority", which just makes them look even more retarded.

 

Athiesm is certainly not the answer to our problems though, it's just a desperate attempt to try something different without properly assessing the real problem, we need to stop people misusing religion for their own use, stop them from interpreting it their own way.

 

The problem here, is that the purpose of faith, as I understand it, is how -you-, the believer, interprets it. Some people interpret it as an excuse to stand on the streets trying to convert people while they give 20% of their weekly earnings to the church. Other people, the extremists, interpret it as an excuse to kill innocent people for superflorous reasons. People who can think for themselves, yet still hold onto faith in a god or gods, are the kinds of people who haven't yet succumbed to the mind-control that is religion. Unfourtunatly, they are becoming rarer than teeth in chickens.

 

The point is, if we were all to believe in the same thing, all 4 billion of us, then that would mean the start of a Utopian society, which of course we know will never occour because of the fact that Humans have a tendancy to find and exploit loopholes, much like us Atheists have done with Christianity. It's impossible for everyone in, say, Christianity, to have the -exact- same beliefs, due to fact that all human beings are different and unique.

 

Of course, your statement just basically sums up what Religion, essentially, is: A method of control.

[Guest Rabbit]

Yep... I went out with a christian... If I wasn't such a dumbass, I would've realized the only reason she asked me out was cause she heard me talking about atheisism, and I was dumb enough to let her take me to church... every week.

 

I'm not saying that to say church is bad, I am saying it to say that people use religion for control in a way... but then again, she used herself to control me to get to the religion...

 

 

Stalin's Propaganda.

[F15pilotX 4]

Worse than Atheism? So, in a way, you are saying things like Atheism and Satanism or something like that is bad?

 

So, what, are all christians/jews just better than all of us, just cause we believe differently?

 

<1>Yes, I am saying Satanism is bad :roll: He rebelled against God

<2>No, we're not better than "All of us", we just believe that we are held to a higher standard (God's)

[Cygnus X-1 12]

the problem with Stanism, is that Satan wont come upo here until the near hte end of the world anyhow, so its pointless.

 

But some could argue the same for christians.

 

this is why religion is so foocked up now. Faith is good to have, but religion is all cult wars nowaday. its getting to be stupid, i think

[F15pilotX 4]

And also he'll be defeated after a short 7 year reign on Earth as the anti-christ :lol: :wink:

[Cygnus X-1 12]

but in the process damning litterlay millions of people

 

and ruining global infrastructure

 

and wars and famines and natural disasters of biblical proportions. :shock:

[Acerz492 1]

Pffft...that'll never happen and you know it. :wink:

 

Besides, by the time it happens, humanity would've taken to the stars.

 

Assuming it does happen, of course. :roll:

[F15pilotX 4]

Not really....a lot of the signs of Christ's return have already come to pass :wink:

[Guest Rabbit]

And tell me... what are these signs? Because, chances are, if you named one, we'd all be able to prove them to be coincidences of some sort.

[Guest Rabbit]

Exactly.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

alrighty you asked for it

 

Sept 11th

 

New madrid

 

London

 

and mroe recently

 

Tsunnamis (real bad)

Hurricanes (particullarly devastating this year)

Earthquakes (Pakistan)

Mass flodding (NE USA)

Blizzards (Colorado)

reverse weather patterns (MW USA)

[Guest Rabbit]

And how is that a sign of him coming back? Wouldn't that just be a sign that:

 

1. We are complete morons for not being able to help prevent/aid to some of this?

2. God wouldn't be returning, why would he have a calendar of destruction?

3. [cough]Terrorists? Bad weather?[/cough]

 

Fenring could come up with a better list than Me!