How did you come to like your favourite band?

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Being wrong is relative.

[BWare 0]

2+2=7

[Cygnus X-1 12]

*coughredlensescough*

 

Come on Cygnus, Rush has a lot of poilitical influence. It's just not as obvious and it actually makes a good song.

 

kinda what I was saying :roll: :wink:

 

BTW Red Lenses started as a random peice of writing that eventualyl went "polical" as you say

 

Heresy is a good mix of political and social writting (song)

[Doctor Destiny 41]

2+2=7

If you want to say that, be my guest. I can't stop you.

 

And I'm still right, being wrong is relative... and don't be stupid, you know I wasn't talking about math. :roll:

[BWare 0]

No no no... holy cow Fenring. Things can be absolutely wrong. Right and wrong aren't just limited to math dude.

Relativism pisses me off. It's an incredibly weak and intellectually dishonest point of view.

 

Oh, and nice rolleyes. Presumed superiority? Yes.

Just take a look at this phrase and see if you can point out the glaring contradiction- a trained chimp could:

And I'm still right, being wrong is relative...

[Doctor Destiny 41]

How is it weak? What you see as right may not be right to another person. It's relative to the individual how he sees the world and his own actions. However, I don't condone breaking the law for any reason and I also believe people should keep some of their more controversial thoughts to themselves or at the very least, a writing tablet.

 

And you're being relative right now. You don't like it and I see that it has some merit.

 

Oh, and that rolleyes was just for you pal.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Im gona stick with fen here on hte relativity issue, but not for the math part of it

 

lets keep the rolleyes to a minimum and the yelling to a nonexistent point :wink:

 

BWare-right and wrong is relative. The Native Americans did what they could to get rid of the British, because the British technically "invaded" yet the British saw the American natives as savages and saw them selves as the bringers of justice peace, and the American way (cept for the last part :wink: )

 

but you see my point.

[BWare 0]

Relativism is weak because it is, more often than not, a haphazard attempt to reconcile all points of view, even those that fiercely contradict each other. It's for people who don't like argument or confrontation- they want everyone to be right. It's very politically correct.

This also makes in incredibly intellectually dishonest.

 

My point is that right and wrong are usually very clear, and people and beliefs can be proven wrong. That's just how the universe works- it's governed by rules, like it or not.

eg. Doctors used to believe that bleeding people cured disease by removing the "bad blood." We now know that it only weakens them and hurts their ability to fight off infection and heal. The old doctors were W-R-O-N-G.

On a side note, Fenring, are you really into the restriction of debate, just because some topics are "extreme" relative to your point of view? Just wondering.

 

 

Cygnus, come on man. Obviously there are disagreements about what is "right and wrong." I think you missed my point. I'm talking about more fundamental things, like facts and the interpretation of facts. I don't hesitate to say someone's wrong when I really truly believe or know it. That's all I'm saying.

 

If you believe everything is relative, then why have an opinion at all? How about you figure out what you believe and why you believe it, grow a spine and learn to defend it, and then make changes when you're proven wrong? It's what I do. Don't just sing kumbaya by the fire and pretend that everyone can be right. We all don't get little trophies in real life :roll:

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Relativism is weak because it is, more often than not, a haphazard attempt to reconcile all points of view, even those that fiercely contradict each other. It's for people who don't like argument or confrontation- they want everyone to be right. It's very politically correct.

I thought poloitical correctness was the big trend these days. You know, don't hurt someone's feelings. I've always been against that but I'm also against people who can't accept both sides of the argument.

 

My point is that right and wrong are usually very clear, and people and beliefs can be proven wrong. That's just how the universe works- it's governed by rules, like it or not.

There are laws of nature, we accept that. That's not what I mean.

 

eg. Doctors used to believe that bleeding people cured disease by removing the "bad blood." We now know that it only weakens them and hurts their ability to fight off infection and heal. The old doctors were W-R-O-N-G.

You just proved my point. They thought it was right and we know it isn't. Relative to them it was right and to us, wrong. Not that hard to understand, is it?

 

On a side note, Fenring, are you really into the restriction of debate, just because some topics are "extreme" relative to your point of view? Just wondering.

No. There are too many topics that will turn into a shouting match between the particiapnts and end up going NOWHERE! It's not because I disagree, it's because I know what will happen. I've been on enough to forums and I've seen it time and time again.

 

f you believe everything is relative, then why have an opinion at all?

I see shades of gray, all sides to an argument. You see black and white, and only your side of an argument. Besides, isn't an opinion relative to everyone here... or anywhere for that matter. The way I see it, no one has the exact same ideas, thus making any idea relative to any person.

[General Kane Nash 0]

How the heck we finish talking about philosophy and dialectic?

[cnc_sage 0]

I guess it's inevitable that threads veer off-topic

[Cygnus X-1 12]

@ BWare - then you mistated your argument. If you argue logic (which is waht you seem to be saying above) then there is one right and no way to avoid it. Logic can be proven and proven time and time again. So yes, you are absolutley right there.

[BWare 0]

Yeah Cygnus, that was pretty much my intention.

 

Fenring, you're playing the typical "more enlightened than thou" card, and that's always annoying. Of COURSE I see both sides of an argument. You alone don't possess that amazing ability :roll:*. Understanding the other side is not my problem. Your problem is that you seem to want to reconcile them against all logic and reason. I see and understand the other side in issues ("other side" is, of course, inherently wrong, because there can be more than 2 sides), and, for whatever reason, I disagree with their points. Doing that is, well, sane! Why is logical debate- and the formation of a simple opinion (excluding, of course, those that oppose it)- so hard for you to tolerate?

 

*the rolleyes was used to imply sarcasm. I apologize in advance

[Acerz492 1]

Oh boy... I really do hope that was sarcasm

 

Sorry dude. Not this time. But it's not like I go expressing all the things S.O.A.D. sing about. I tried getting into politics once. Oh god. Don't remind me. >_> I leave politics to the politcians. I like them because of the way their music is played, which is something very different. And not -all- of their songs are based on political opinions, just the majority of them.

 

In a vain attempt to get back on topic. :roll:

[BWare 0]

...so you actually agree with a lot of their "political" points? That's frightening :shock:

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Why is logical debate- and the formation of a simple opinion (excluding, of course, those that oppose it)- so hard for you to tolerate?

It isn't. I just enjoy riling you up. You make it too easy.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

But it's not like I go expressing all the things S.O.A.D. sing about. I tried getting into politics once. Oh god. Don't remind me. >_> I leave politics to the politcians. I like them because of the way their music is played, which is something very different. And not -all- of their songs are based on political opinions, just the majority of them.

 

In a vain attempt to get back on topic. :roll:

 

yes indeed, staying on topic :wink:

 

SOAD does play their music quite differnetly than most, whith some possible exception for The Offspring

 

But I do think they go too political.

[BWare 0]

It isn't. I just enjoy riling you up. You make it too easy.

Bastard!

[Cygnus X-1 12]

you know King warned badger about using that word around here,

 

@ Fen - while that may be satisfying ot you, it still doesnt help your side of any debate at all :wink:

[Acerz492 1]

...so you actually agree with a lot of their "political" points? That's frightening. :shock:

 

That's not what I mean.

 

I find their music very appealing, again mainly because of the way it is played. The lyrics to their best songs aren't so much an outcry against, say, the U.S. government, it's moreso a form of poetry, to me. For lack of finding a better way to describe it. :lol:

 

It isn't. I just enjoy riling you up. You make it too easy.

 

He's right you know. You do sometimes walk into things. Then again, we all do. So it's all good.

 

 

But I do think they go too political.

 

Maybe they do. But hey, at least they didn't pull a Greenday. :roll:

[Doctor Destiny 41]

The lead singer has a unique voice... and that's all SOAD has. They're mediocrity to be perfectly honest. Nothing about them is all that great but then again, that's just me. Actually, not being Greenday is a big plus.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

/ that should read NOT being greenday is a big plus :wink:

[TheBlackOut 7]

Ontopic is on the stage and then leads off to offtopic... But then ontopic shoots offtopic and the head it ontopic is back!

 

Its funny how you guys do that.

 

Also I like Franz Ferdinand.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

I only have two of their songs, This Fire and Take Me Out

 

the only 2 ever played on the radio. Any of their other stuff as good as these ?

[Acerz492 1]

The Dark of the Matinee, or something random like that. 'Tis a great song. :lol: