Command & Conquer 3 Designer Diary at IGN

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Too much of anything is bad. "Normal" doses arent considered dangerous, because if they were, we'd be dead, seeing as how we recieve the "normal" doses quite regularly. :wink:

[BWare 0]

As with the normal gamma radiation that we receive is not condidered dangerous but depending on the dosage it can be

Of course, but my point is that when there is an excess of radiation, you're worried about the gamma rays- not the alpha particles. That's what's relevant here.

 

lets hope this stays on topic....

Please, unless you have something to contribute, don't bother saying anything.

My point about mutation and evolution was very relevant. If, in real life, every single observable mutation is a negative, tell me why we're supposed to believe that random mutation is the key to improvement and progress? Mutation is chaos.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

it is...

 

but not in C&C as we all know....

[Saracen 16]

shall we entend this debate to radioactive area of effect based how far you need to be from Tiberium before you start to become exposed

 

One thing we have to remember here, Tiberium is Alien. Tiberium may have the scientific anomaly of a black hole or dark matter. The same way a black hole bends light or a tea spoon of dark matter can weigh millions of tonnes. Tiberium could effectively deny all laws of physics.

 

Tiberium may have growth cycles. Remaining at a steady state for many years before it's pods break away and it imbeds itself into the ground. Of which point since Tiberium is rooted within the soil, it gains direct access to minerals, causing the giant glacier effect seen in red zone pictures.

 

Blue tiberium, may only have a limited life-span, hence the reason that once it dies, it does not come back, and does not regenerate at all, effectively making it extinct.

 

The same goes for all Tiberium based life forms. Maybe they are unable to reproduce. Trees, While they are able to create more Tiberium based plants they may not have the power to pollentate, and other fauna are the same, dying off due to a lack of atmospheric requirements enabling it to photosynthesise.

 

Animal based lifeforms, may be able to reproduce, but the offspring dies due to the severe lack of evolutionary time expenditure. Who know's.

 

Fact is Tiberium is deeper than just the old plant we saw in previous games. EA are expanding the explanation of Tiberium to a whole new level, based on life cycles of the Tiberium crystal and how it affects the atmosphere, plant life, animal life, all sorts.

 

There are reasons why it is like it is, and regardless what people may say. Tiberium has evolved into something new.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

you all just got SERVED(movie quote)

 

ownd

[Cygnus X-1 12]

You more so than the rest of us.

 

Perhaps Tiberium's way of "reproducing" is to have the trees spread it far enough so that it can infect other trees. But this is flawed, because once all the trees are infected, Tiberium dies.

 

Then again, we have seen it spreading on its own without trees, just a lot slower.

 

Good point about Tiberium being alien, btw. makes you think of the possibilities...

 

"The possibilities of Tiberium...are endless." - Dr. Mobius

[rEdaSbLood 1]

i was so not ownd...

 

i was lazy to say what King did...

 

i thought everyone had what he said about it defying psychics in mind already ...

 

anyways...

[BWare 0]

One thing we have to remember here, Tiberium is Alien. Tiberium may have the scientific anomaly of a black hole or dark matter. The same way a black hole bends light or a tea spoon of dark matter can weigh millions of tonnes. Tiberium could effectively deny all laws of physics.

This is a very poor way to look at it. Black holes and dark matter are very real aspects of the universe that we just don't fully understand. Dark matter is likely matter with opposite charges at the subatomic level, and black holes are infinitely small points (singularities) packed with more matter/energy than you could even imagine. How does this relate -in any way- to Tiberium? :? Black holes bend light (so do any sources of gravity, by the way), so Tiberium can one day cause mysterious alien mutations and the next be radioactive crystal? Just because it sounds "scientific" doesn't mean it relates dude.

 

Now I know this is all fiction, but it used to be great fiction, and now it's looking mediocre. That's all I'm saying. There should be some continuity, and I hate to see a great concept messed up.

 

Tiberium may have growth cycles. Remaining at a steady state for many years before it's pods break away and it imbeds itself into the ground. Of which point since Tiberium is rooted within the soil, it gains direct access to minerals, causing the giant glacier effect seen in red zone pictures.

Okay, maybe... but the fact is that they are redefining it as a "self-replicating crystal." It never was that. The crystals of Tiberium never started to change whatever they touched into MORE Tiberium. That would have definitely been noteworthy....

 

Blue tiberium, may only have a limited life-span, hence the reason that once it dies, it does not come back, and does not regenerate at all, effectively making it extinct.

You could call that a "G-0 meitotic phase." It could follow, on a much larger scale, the growth pattern of nerve cells for example. They reproduce and grow to maturity, but once they stop, they're irreplaceable. That could be an interesting way to explain it... but no, they seem to be getting rid of blue Tiberium without much of a second thought.

Now I wasn't that big of a fan of the stuff, but there really should be some continuity between games. There are a lot of loose ends turning up.

 

The same goes for all Tiberium based life forms. Maybe they are unable to reproduce. Trees, While they are able to create more Tiberium based plants they may not have the power to pollentate, and other fauna are the same, dying off due to a lack of atmospheric requirements enabling it to photosynthesise.

So you're allowing Tiberium crystal to break "all laws of physics," but you're assuming that Tiberian plants MUST pollenate? :lol:

If they came into being in the FIRST place, then what happened to the mechanism that created them? According to the fiction at the time, it was the Tiberium itself- they were part of the burgeoning Tiberian ecosystem, as important as the crystals themselves. But, again, it looks like they're going the way of the blue Tiberium- disappeared without any explanation.

 

Bottom line: Tiberium used to cause major, dramatic mutations (ie visceroids, fiends, etc), and now we get nothing except radiation... which, I'll say again, was a cool and cutting edge thing back in the '50s.

 

Animal based lifeforms, may be able to reproduce, but the offspring dies due to the severe lack of evolutionary time expenditure. Who know's.

"Evolutionary time expenditure?" What on earth is that supposed to mean? :?

Again, at the VERY least, Tiberium should be causing the same freaky alien mutations it used to cause instead of the whole radiation/self-replication thing.....

 

Fact is Tiberium is deeper than just the old plant we saw in previous games. EA are expanding the explanation of Tiberium to a whole new level, based on life cycles of the Tiberium crystal and how it affects the atmosphere, plant life, animal life, all sorts.

That's EXACTLY where they took it in TS and Firestorm. What EA is doing now is DUMBING IT DOWN. This is exceedingly clear. Instead of the mysterious and ambitious concept they had earlier, where Tiberium couldn't be explained in a couple sentences (though they were written by guys from MIT! :roll:), what we're getting is a lackluster, basic explanation of what used to be one of the deepest, most mysterious, and most compelling concepts in gaming history. It's a crime.

 

But hey, it'll sell.

 

 

 

Oh, and has anyone else noticed that redasblood is pretty much a waste of skin?

[rEdaSbLood 1]

hahaha NO

 

Bware you have many points...

 

I, on the other hand, am too busy and lazy to get in depth...so im just going to agree and disagree

[BWare 0]

I, on the other hand, am too busy and lazy to get in depth...so im just going to agree and disagree

Haha, wow... it took you all of 2 seconds to prove my point

[rEdaSbLood 1]

you know me BWare, unintelligent and useless :roll:

 

 

[Cygnus X-1 12]

He does have a point, and more than just about the lack of Tiberium continuity. Then again, theres no rule saying you can just post your agreements and disagreements. Personally, I dont care whether you post a book or 3 sentences, so long as it doesnt kill the thread :wink:

 

@ BWare - once again, not poking, but blasting holes in EA's explanations. One thing I think discussion like this is really good for is putting hte ideas out there. Hopefully one of 2 things happens. Either A:(unlikely) EA reads this and thinks "o wiat a minute" and fixes a few things, or B: (somewhat more likely) They have some good things planned, and havent shown them to us yet because they dont want to spoil the surprises or dont have them rendered out yet.

 

If neither of those happen, I (and at least one other) will be unhappy campers. BUT like King says, there are still orginal Westwoodians working with EA, and I dont think they would still be working on C&C3 if it was being completly butchered. So we're all good fornow

[BWare 0]

One thing I think discussion like this is really good for is putting hte ideas out there.

EXACTLY. Please note, those of you who hate what you perceive as "EA bashing" (you couldn't be more wrong): This is constructive criticism over what game info has been revealed thus far. We, as the ridiculously diehard fans of the series, are natrually concerned over where they're taking it. We know and love the series, and I think that EA understands this. According to their latest podcast, they responded to criticisms over the size of the Tiberium crystals, and scaled them down. Did they see that as "EA bashing?" No. They saw it as concerned fans of the series with legitimate and constructive criticisms. It's really interesting how EA tends to understand that more than some folks here......

 

Hopefully one of 2 things happens. Either A:(unlikely) EA reads this and thinks "o wiat a minute" and fixes a few things, or B: (somewhat more likely) They have some good things planned, and havent shown them to us yet because they dont want to spoil the surprises or dont have them rendered out yet.

Bingo. Either of those would make me a VERY happy camper. On the latter option, there is obviously MUCH more to be revealed, and I for one am very much looking forward to what they do with Nod and the Scrin. I've made clear that I don't think the Scrin should be playable (making them mortal and beatable sucks the awe and mystery from them), but hey, pick your battles, right? Whatever happens, it will look and play amazingly well. That's for sure.

 

BUT like King says, there are still orginal Westwoodians working with EA, and I dont think they would still be working on C&C3 if it was being completly butchered. So we're all good fornow

True, true. Although you have to wonder... on projects like these, there tends to be one guy with the vision. They keep the other folks in check and are pretty much singularly responsible for the direction and continuity of their concept. It all stems from their creative vision. Since we've seen a major departure from some key players, what if we've lost that one guy? What if the remaining folks don't care much about the story? I guess we'll see.... and, of course, we the fan community are here to fill the shoes of that guy :wink:

[rEdaSbLood 1]

i really hope EA listens to us...

 

the C&C story and vision is carried through us...

 

i agree with BWare and Cygy

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Cygy now, is it... :wink:

 

I think EA realises that there is a lot of potential for the series, and the more they put into it, the more they get out of it (IE dedicated fans and returning customers) which is turn, relates to cash. Granted the MIT boys was a bad move, but you live, you learn.

[BWare 0]

The MIT thing was interesting....

 

They were, I think, looking to get some scientific street cred with some overly-complicated "analysis" of Tiberium, and the fancy new attributes it randomly got just now. The PROBLEM is that they sucked out the very scifi soul of the concept by doing that. The MIT boys are smart, sure, but their thinking and reasoning is entirely rooted in -known- science. Tiberium should be something that TRANSCENDS known science- something that will baffle and confuse scientists (as it DOES in the early games) for decades. To be able to explain it so easily (though it does sound complicated and "sciency" to the uninformed :roll:) is to destroy the depth of the concept, which is the most compelling thing ABOUT C&C. I think that those of you who AREN'T alarmed by this should take another look.

 

It really would be better if they kept it far more vague and inconclusive, perhaps going in depth into what it does- the what- instead of what it's made of- the how. That's how it used to be handled. We came to know Tiberium through what it did, and it blew us away.

 

Now we're looking at it through a microscope with this new ficiton and saying: "Oh."

[TheBlackOut 7]

Well time progressed and we found out more about tiberium... Thats how science usually works too.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Decades and decades and decades of research, and thats just things on Earth. You do realise that before the Sonic Resonator tech, any close Tiberium studies were in essence, suicide studies. Theres no way they found out all of that on volunteer suicide studies by researchers.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

im sure there were volunteers..

 

 

life is depressing regardless if tiberium is existent or not.. :cry:

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Please put a little more thought into this. You're sure there were volunteer suicide scientists...and enough of them to have detailed studies of Tiberium produced in the middle of a global conflict between Nod and GDI...

[rEdaSbLood 1]

yes..

 

possibly Forgotten scientists that cooperated

[Cygnus X-1 12]

I doubt it. Remember the game? Many of the Forgotten believed they had litterally been 'forgotten' by Nod and GDI. Hence the name. GDI did eventually start trying to help them, but very few returned the favor.

[Stevo 0]

I doubt it. Remember the game? Many of the Forgotten believed they had litterally been 'forgotten' by Nod and GDI. Hence the name. GDI did eventually start trying to help them, but very few returned the favor.

Remember firestorm how Traitos(*sp) was the leader(or a very important/influental member atleast) of the Forgotten and how he was working with GDI to make a (failed) cure.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

my point exactly

[Cygnus X-1 12]

I doubt it. Remember the game? Many of the Forgotten believed they had litterally been 'forgotten' by Nod and GDI. Hence the name. GDI did eventually start trying to help them, but very few returned the favor.

Remember firestorm how Traitos(*sp) was the leader(or a very important/influental member atleast) of the Forgotten and how he was working with GDI to make a (failed) cure.

 

Yes, take not. A Failed cure, as well as having to deal with the Tiberium plague, rescuing civilians, Nod assaults, and Cabals, bid for power, along with the Philledelphia being out of contact for the entire FS campaign, and that houses the vast majority of GDI research and tech databases.