North Korea's Nuclear Status

[F15pilotX 4]

So, North Korea has finally exploded a nuclear bomb

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/0...0510/index.html

 

Discuss!

 

In my opinion, this is where the US needs to draw the line firmly and eradicate all caches of nuclear materials North Korea possesses, using any means possible, up to and including tactical nuclear bombs. We CAN NOT allow this country the capability to launch at one of our allies, and if we don't do anything soon, us

 

By the way, I excluded the UN from the topic for a purpose :roll:

[BWare 0]

uh....

[Guest Rabbit]

So, Iran has finally exploded a nuclear bomb

 

I could swear it was North Korea. :roll:

[Alphabear 11]

Actually i believe the UN is the best place for this issue at the moment. North Koreas only real ally China condemed the move and is looking to the UN for a resolution. With Chinas participation the security council can work more effectively.

[BWare 0]

Actually i believe the UN is the best place for this issue at the moment.

Seriously... I mean, they've done such a great job with these same situations in the past, right?

 

North Koreas only real ally China condemed the move and is looking to the UN for a resolution. With Chinas participation the security council can work more effectively.

They have YET to EVER work "effectively". When it comes to actually getting things done, it's usually up to the US. What's worse is that when we DO finally step in, we're called war-mongering monsters, or some other pacifist gibberish. Ugh.

 

I say we follow the Reagan example (which DID work in the past, and brilliantly) and place strategic nuke launch sites at our bases in Japan and even South Korea. I think we have a couple nuke subs off the coast at the moment anyway... but the more the merrier.

[Alphabear 11]

Actually i believe the UN is the best place for this issue at the moment.

Seriously... I mean, they've done such a great job with these same situations in the past, right?

thats because in the past china has blocked such moves.

 

North Koreas only real ally China condemed the move and is looking to the UN for a resolution. With Chinas participation the security council can work more effectively.

They have YET to EVER work "effectively". When it comes to actually getting things done, it's usually up to the US. What's worse is that when we DO finally step in, we're called war-mongering monsters, or some other pacifist gibberish. Ugh.

Sure the US will probably want to lead the operation anyway but at least it will be under the UN flag like previous operations.

 

I say we follow the Reagan example (which DID work in the past, and brilliantly) and place strategic nuke launch sites at our bases in Japan and even South Korea. I think we have a couple nuke subs off the coast at the moment anyway... but the more the merrier.

recent events have proved us that the North Koreans are unpredictable. What happens when you back a dig into a corner and pressure it? It attacks back

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Actually, I agree with alhpabear this time. We need to let the UN and diplomatic talks run their course with North Korea. There's a better chance it would work NK than Iran. Despite the UN's lack of efficiency, we should at least give them a chance... can we really afford to attack someone else?

[Thierry 0]

I dont even really see all the fuss here...So now we can destroy the world 220 times over instead of 219...big deal!

Basicly the world is saying that NK cant have weapons that the world itself DOES have.

I do get that people think NK are a little more triggerhappy with those nukes but I highly doubt a nuclear war is imminent. (from NK anyways)

[BWare 0]

I dont even really see all the fuss here...So now we can destroy the world 220 times over instead of 219...big deal!

That has absolutely nothing to do with it.

 

Basicly the world is saying that NK cant have weapons that the world itself DOES have.

You're drawing a moral equivalency here that is both idiotic and dangerous. North Korea is a VERY dangerous rogue country, and the fact that it has nukes is bad for the whole world. Would you be as willing to give nukes to Syria? How about Iran? What about Al Quaeda? They're just people like us! It would only be fair, right? :roll:

[TheBlackOut 7]

U.N. is a good bet for the moment. If we can get China (And now China is kind of paranoid by N. Korea ) on our side then it'd be good.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

im with bWare on this..but im not sure what we should do...

[BWare 0]

It's a really rough situation no matter how you look at it. :?

[F15pilotX 4]

So, Iran has finally exploded a nuclear bomb

 

I could swear it was North Korea. :roll:

hmm...now that I've corrected that, I dunno...that other topic about Iran confused me :wink:

 

The US can't/won't take on 3 wars at once, idt, so I guess it's up to the UN for now :?

[Saracen 16]

When things go nuclear, it's a whole new ball game. And the only route to consider at this time is diplomacy. While the fear certainly rains down on a possible attack towards the US, it's south Korea and Japan that have to be the most concerned at this point. South Korea's reasons need no introduction they have a history. And japan is the same, and they know what nukes are like. But since it's home to a large US Naval base as well, it's kinda unsettling.

 

The UN is a joke, I bet they've done nothing since the nuclear test but sit around a table coming to no clear cut conclusions other than the fact that North Korea is a very bad little boy indeed. I do not need say anymore than that.

 

One thing you have to realise is that this is not Iraq. Yes they have WMD, and they've shown their might to the world. Going in there and givin' them hell? I'm sure Bush would love to do that, but it's just not possible or anywhere as easy as that.

 

This is a cold war situation as it stands. Sure we're not up against Russia, but these bastards are crazy sons of a bitches and they know what they're doing. Kicking their front door in will give them a valid reason to retaliate as strongly as they feel is necessary. And if their old ally China (even if they're unsure) wants to lend a hand, it's more than likely that some sort of suffering could occur.

 

Hence why diplomacy has to be at the top of the agenda now. As much as NATO countries wouldn't like to admit it, North Korea now stands as a nation that has to be feared, but also respected. But something has to be done quickly, the more time that's left wondering what should be done, the more time NK can build more weapons into their arsenal, thus increasing the threat level even further.

 

But what can I say, for the last 12 or more months the world has seen this coming, and no doubt other governments had more warning than that. Had they done anything apart from get on their knees and beg NK not to do this? No, they haven't really. I keep saying the word diplomacy, but when you think about it, NK has made sure it's fallen on deaf ears.

 

Everyone might as well call in the cleaners to visit a few silos, they need dusting off ready for that possibiliy, that if, if, any allied nation is attacked, the defcon goes up and we'll be threatening nuclear war as a sheer last resort. As extreme as it sounds, there's always that consideration in the back of leader's minds. But let's all pray to god that we don't have another Cold War, the last one was painful enough!

[rEdaSbLood 1]

This is a cold war situation as it stands

 

yea i totally agree this looks too much like a show of arms...

 

but everything King said is what we all know is true..just put into words because King has the capacity and patience to do it like he does....

 

we should really update our silos..the threat of retaliation is our only defence against a wild state such as NK...at least when it comes down to taking civilian casualties due to a nuclear attack

[BWare 0]

I'm sure Bush would love to do that, but it's just not possible or anywhere as easy as that.

I pretty much totally agree with you on this, but I had to say something about your Bush comment. That really isn't a fair charicarization at all. He's a good man, and sees war as a LAST resort (as any sane leader should). Do you think that he takes pleasure in sending the young fighting men in his country to fight and die overseas? Do you think he sleeps easily at night questioning whether he's doing the right thing? Just imagine the weight of the decisions he's been forced to make and the mental anguish it must bring. The kind of cold callousness, monstrous mischaracterization, and raging hatred that some people show toward him really doesn't help, as you could probably imagine. This is nothing but a false stereotype of a man who has had to put up with FAR too much hatred in his few years as president.

Please... you're a smart guy. Don't stoop to the level (popular as it is) of considering Bush a trigger-happy cowboy. It's insensitive and false, and it gets old quickly.

 

This is a cold war situation as it stands. Sure we're not up against Russia, but these bastards are crazy sons of a bitches and they know what they're doing. Kicking their front door in will give them a valid reason to retaliate as strongly as they feel is necessary. And if their old ally China (even if they're unsure) wants to lend a hand, it's more than likely that some sort of suffering could occur.

It is a pretty terrible situation, no question. North Korea is nuts, and China is cold, calculating, and really even more dangerous. We need to be smart, but we also need some strength in our leadership. Modernizing our nuke sites and increasing our nuclear presence overseas is probably a good idea. Historically, strength is the only thing that works. It's how we won the Cold War, and looks like our best bet with dealing with the crazy dog-eating midget in North Korea.

 

Hence why diplomacy has to be at the top of the agenda now. As much as NATO countries wouldn't like to admit it, North Korea now stands as a nation that has to be feared, but also respected.

Feared, maybe... they have yet to get the warhead delivery system down. But respected? Why do you believe that they deserve respect? Kim Jong Il IS a James Bond villain, and North Korea is pretty much a real life mirror of Orwell's nightmarish vision in 1984. I don't think that they AT ALL deserve our respect.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

well.. an arms race that isn't followed by death would be good for our economy...

 

and IMO i dont like bush

[Alphabear 11]

The key to this is not US pressure, but pressure from China and Russia. NK has already proven in the past that when pressure comes from the US and a few other countries alone it is ignored. They only listen to the few countries they still have diplomatic ties to. China is at the crossroads here. If the US decides to act forcefully (either diplomatically or militarily) on its own it is likely to push china back the other way supporting NK. It would have a similar effect with russia who would probably move back to a more neutral stance.

 

The smartest option here would be first to get China on side and then direct the pressure through China

[BWare 0]

and IMO i dont like bush

Well said, and very original. :roll:

 

 

Alpha, you're pretty right there.... the key IS pressure. You don't see US pressure as an option because it's been ignored in the past, but I don't think that ANY country would ignore a beefing up of our nuclear capabilities in their neck of the woods. That's what you call leverage.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

simplicity rules...and i hate going into it about bush..si i figured to leave it at that just to get my opinion across...guess not.

[Alphabear 11]

and IMO i dont like bush

Well said, and very original. :roll:

 

 

Alpha, you're pretty right there.... the key IS pressure. You don't see US pressure as an option because it's been ignored in the past, but I don't think that ANY country would ignore a beefing up of our nuclear capabilities in their neck of the woods. That's what you call leverage.

 

Which would then push china back and the chances of a peacefull solution would be very slim. Sure similarities can be drawn to the cold war but expecting it to be the same makes no sence. Wars evolve, every conflict is different. Expecting a new crisis to have the same result if you use the same methods of a previous conflict is a major flaw. Something France learnt in WW2

[BWare 0]

...agreed, but wouldn't you admit that you can LEARN from historical examples? I never said that it should be handled in the exact same way... but it should be handled similarly.

[Alphabear 11]

Agreed but the conflicts are'nt really that similar other than the involvement of nukes. Even the nuclear similarites dont number very high

[F15pilotX 4]

As much as NATO countries wouldn't like to admit it, North Korea now stands as a nation that has to be feared, but also respected.

why should they/we respect North Korea?

[Saracen 16]

During the 2nd Gulf war, George Caffentzis wrote an essay addressed to the US anti-war movement. In a nutshell it says this:

 

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

Military Generals too, as much as they hate their enemy have to learn to respect them to understand them. As the old proverb also goes:

 

Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer

 

There are many more. But there is an unwritten law, that to estimate and understand your enemy, you have to respect them.