Westwood VS Blizzard at 1UP.com

[Sonic 296]

Westwood is no more, we have known that for years. But that doesn't stop the media insisting that there was a rivalry between Westwood Studios and Blizzard. This is the basis of a new feature at 1UP.com, as the gone but not forgotten Westwood go head to head with Blizzard.

 

Without Westwood Studios and Blizzard Entertainment, real-time strategy games as we know them would likely not exist. Through the mid- to late-1990s, the two studios competed to release what are still considered the landmarks of the genre, and their rivalry forced each other to innovate and refine and hone the RTS into what it is today. But which developer left the most lasting impression? Westwood (the studio's gone, but some employees stayed at EA Los Angeles while others went on to form Petroglyph Games) with its groundbreaking work in Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty and the Command & Conquer series? Or Blizzard with its dual juggernaut of WarCraft and StarCraft? We look at five aspects of each of the studios' games to decide.

Read the full article to find out who IGN declared as the overall winner. But remember this, all of 1UP.com's points are debatable and its their view point.

[Luk3us 63]

Yeah Blizzard has a lot going for it, but so did Westwood back in the day. Its a pity they are no more, but lets not digress into that flamewar frest.

 

Long live Westwood.

[rEdaSbLood 1]

yea they both rocked...but the who's better? i'd give it to Blizzard simply because they are still alive, but that could be ignorant.

 

imagine petroglyph merging with blizzard...they should consider that. that's a team to be reckoned with..

[G0NE2W4R 0]

I will have to go with Westwood, they created the best PC games ever.

If only they where still at work

[JahSpoR 0]

tricked by the candy man gneh

[Pyrodaimon 0]

Yeah Blizzard has a lot going for it, but so did Westwood back in the day. Its a pity they are no more, but lets not digress into that flamewar frest.

I personally wouldn't mind a flame war between us, the anti-EA ones, and the others. I'd flame here if this was another site.

 

As for the comparison, I think it was a little biased.

[TheBlackOut 7]

I personally wouldn't mind a flame war between us, the anti-EA ones, and the others. I'd flame here if this was another site.

 

As for the comparison, I think it was a little biased.

How do you feel they are biased? 1UP isn't Blizzard owned... I agree, on the most part, Blizzard's Starcraft/Warcraft is a bit more influential than C&C. Doesn't mean I like it more, I like C&C way more than SC.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Nobody gives Westwood enough credit. I'd say they're about even rather than Blizz being out on top.

[Duke 0]

To be honest while I enjoy C&C games a lot more than War/Star-Craft games I do agree with their final analysis. At the end of the day Blizzard has been the most succesful in the business of rts games. If Westwood had been on the same level of sucess they wouldn't have needed to ever sell out etc.

 

Majority(/money) rules I guess...

 

[hagren 0]

To be honest, while I enjoyed WCIII back in the day immensely, and dig SCs general gameplay very much, WW titles are much more fun and rewarding at the end of the day. Every point in this article is debatable, except one: Spin-offs.

 

WoW is a unbelievably successful game, no doubt about that, but it's neither good or innovative. Renegade at least was fresh. WoW, as with every Blizz game, is merely refining an already established formula.

[Sonic 296]

They way I see it is this, If Westwood never made Dune 2 and then redefined RTS with Command & Conquer, Starcraft and any other RTS would not have had so much success. Westwood is responsible for making RTS games popular just like id software did with Doom and FPS.

 

Westwood tried other games, like Nox, an RPG, Earth and Beyond, and didn't always fall back on C&C all the time. What has Blizzard served up over the years? The same "Craft" games for the most part. Oh look what Blizzard have next, the long overdue Starcraft 2, a game that should have been out around 5 or 6 years ago

[Pyrodaimon 0]

Don't forget also that WoW can easily have many more expansions. So far, there's one and another in development. According to Wc lore (whatever lore there's left since Blizz butchered Wc lore with WoW anyway) they can still make two more expansions. If they feel the need for more money, they can as well make more. MANY more.

 

Perhaps even a World of Starcraft? World of Diablo would be more fitting however.

[Sonic 296]

Don't forget also that WoW can easily have many more expansions. So far, there's one and another in development.

I understand WoW is popular but expansion after expansion is just beating a dead horse, its just more of the same gameplay in a new location in a made up fantasy land. Thats why part of me likes that there won't be any second expansion for C&C 3. We don't need C&C falling into something like The Sims endless line of expansion packs.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

World of Warcraft is continuing the WC storyline, they have to have the expansions. Besides, a lot changes between each x-pack.

[GeneralZ 0]

I agree with their final choice. While Westwood was the innovator, Blizzard was the one who finetuned more, while also building a single consistent storyline and adding more content and exploring their universe. C&C did that, but it wasn't a focused, with RA2 and TS as different spinnoffs in alternate dimensions. Warcraft universe is one big epic story and World of Warcraft just allowing the players to explore more. In WoW, you meet the same NPCs and locations made famous in the RTS battles of Warcraft II and III.

 

Also look at how their paths have diverged. Westwood was bought over by EA, and their quality has suffered, focusing more on quantity than quality. Blizzard takes a much longer time to release each game, but gets it perfect everytime. The facts can speak for themselves, over 3 million in suscribers (including me lol) paying 180$ a year (thats like 3 new pc game releases a year), WoW is just a juggernaut C&C can only hope to look up to. This is how EA screwed up C&C and once loyal C&C fans like me have shifted to WoW.

 

I understand WoW is popular but expansion after expansion is just beating a dead horse, its just more of the same gameplay in a new location in a made up fantasy land.

Sonic you do not understand WoW at all. WoW expansions is not beating a deadhorse, its exploring and giving the fans more of what they really want. Wrath of the Lich King is set in Northrend, the place where Arthas went mad and merged with the Lich King in Warcraft III. WoW doesnt need to innovate its gameplay, when its already really good, they're exploring and going into detail the story that every blizzard player knows. There is a huge history and story behind the new expansion pack thats has been set into place by the RTS games, similiar to what Tiberium is trying to do to C&C. Besides C&C has a lot more expansions that Warcraft.

 

Thats why part of me likes that there won't be any second expansion for C&C 3. We don't need C&C falling into something like The Sims endless line of expansion packs.

Isnt that what's already happening?

Edited May 13, 2008 by Sonic

[Sonic 296]

Firstly learn to quote reply so you don't end up with a giant wall of text

I fixed your post to make it readable.

 

Sonic you do not understand WoW at all. WoW expansions is not beating a deadhorse, its exploring and giving the fans more of what they really want. Wrath of the Lich King is set in Northrend, the place where Arthas went mad and merged with the Lich King in Warcraft III. WoW doesnt need to innovate its gameplay, when its already really good, they're exploring and going into detail the story that every blizzard player knows. There is a huge history and story behind the new expansion pack thats has been set into place by the RTS games, similiar to what Tiberium is trying to do to C&C. Besides C&C has a lot more expansions that Warcraft.

Well done defending WoW, your clearly a fan boy aren't you?.

 

C&C 3 has 1 expansion, Kane's Wrath. How is that more? Don't count the other C&C's, different games.

 

Isnt that what's already happening?

No.... please think before posting.

[hagren 0]

I agree with their final choice. While Westwood was the innovator, Blizzard was the one who finetuned more, while also building a single consistent storyline and adding more content and exploring their universe. C&C did that, but it wasn't a focused, with RA2 and TS as different spinnoffs in alternate dimensions. Warcraft universe is one big epic story and World of Warcraft just allowing the players to explore more. In WoW, you meet the same NPCs and locations made famous in the RTS battles of Warcraft II and III.

The level of immersion is poor though- NPCs which just stand in one place, barely any voice acting, huge landscapes filled with very few doodads, shallow quests, few scripts etc. The minigames are good though. As is the music.

 

Also look at how their paths have diverged. Westwood was bought over by EA, and their quality has suffered, focusing more on quantity than quality. Blizzard takes a much longer time to release each game, but gets it perfect everytime. The facts can speak for themselves, over 3 million in suscribers (including me lol) paying 180$ a year (thats like 3 new pc game releases a year), WoW is just a juggernaut C&C can only hope to look up to. This is how EA screwed up C&C and once loyal C&C fans like me have shifted to WoW.

Perfect? The whole Diablo universe is by no means perfect, as is not WoW. And what does an RTS have to do with an MMORPG anyway?

EA released two CnC games in 4 years, btw.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Well done defending WoW, your clearly a fan boy aren't you?

OMFG! The hypocrisy here is just staggering. Blizzard chose to release story in an entirely different genre and you're chastising them for it? Then you complain about EA not releasing story or then doing it wrong? I mean Jesus Christ, have a little consistency.

[Gben 20]

Well this would've been a good topic for roundtable... certainly sparked some good concersation points!

 

(It constantly suprises me how quickly people lose all sense of reason, and resort to school boy taunts defending their emotional favourites.)

[Sonic 296]

OMFG! The hypocrisy here is just staggering. Blizzard chose to release story in an entirely different genre and you're chastising them for it? Then you complain about EA not releasing story or then doing it wrong? I mean Jesus Christ, have a little consistency.

Nothing to add based on the fact that I have no idea what your talking about.

 

I just don't buy into the WoW hype, why do people waste their days playing this game? Whats so great about?

 

Also when someone comes to a C&C fan site to defend their WoW lifestyle they will get some **** back.

 

Well this would've been a good topic for roundtable...

I purposely left this news topic out of the next Roundtable, this abomination of a thread should give any idea why.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Nothing to add based on the fact that I have no idea what your talking about.

You're the bazillionth C&C fanboy I've seen chastise Blizzard for their multiple expansions with World of Warcraft.

 

I just don't buy into the WoW hype, why do people waste their days playing this game? Whats so great about?

There's is a lot to do, it's not just running around and beating the **** out of creatures to gain levels. That's how you start the game, the real game doesn't begin until about level 60 with raids. If you play the game heavily enough, you go deeper into Warcraft lore and get some epic fun out of the experience. Not everyone who plays the game is a pasty-faced nerd with no life. I play it on rare occasions and it's a lot of fun.

 

In short, the depth is waaaaaay beyond anything C&C has.

[GeneralZ 0]

The level of immersion is poor though- NPCs which just stand in one place, barely any voice acting, huge landscapes filled with very few doodads, shallow quests, few scripts etc. The minigames are good though. As is the music.

 

 

Perfect? The whole Diablo universe is by no means perfect, as is not WoW. And what does an RTS have to do with an MMORPG anyway?

EA released two CnC games in 4 years, btw.

 

This is coming from someone who definitely never got past lvl 20. Huge landscapes with few doodads? Have you ever explored Outlands on a flying mount? Wow landscapes are pretty rich and very interactive. And you don't get voice acting an mmorpg.

 

I dont give a damn about Diablo and I still dislike Starcraft. C&C is still my favorite RTS, but its left me feeling rather empty. Have you played C&C regularly, online, every night for several years? I have, and looking back upon it, its not that replayable. Kane's Wrath promised to be like ZH for vanilla gen, but it was very dissapointing. WoW on the other hand, has delivered what I expected and more, engaging its players deeply into Warcraft lore. I started WoW with absolutely no background knowledge, but the it has explored and piqued my curiosity. As of now, the epic endgame boss to kill is Illidan, requiring a 25-man raid. Illidan is one of the major epic characters in Warcraft lore, how's that for interaction. (Tiberium FPS should allow GDI players to kill Kane at the end )

 

But again WoW is a MMORPG, the industry standard, in a class on its own. It shouldn't be compared to C&C, its like comparing apples and oranges, but it sure a better alternative

 

If we stick purely to the RTS genre, C&C is the winner. However, the 1UP comparison was Blizzard v.s. Westwood, not Warcraft/Starcraft v.s. C&C. Blizzard has managed to develop their story, expand from an RTS to a juggernaut MMORPG, much broader and successful in terms of financial success as well as marketshare/fans. From an industry perspective, Blizzard is the obvious winner, with more revenue, a broader and crazier fanbase (the koreans), and wider distribution/marketshare. Blizzard has managed to do well in traditional U.S./European Markets, but it has also made deep inroads into Asia, something C&C can't match up to.

 

Conclusion: Westwood won the RTS battle, but Blizzard won the War overall. Thus 1UP's conclusion stands correct

 

 

In the end, poor Westwood got eaten up by EA, which is going down the drain, while Blizzard is going strong, merging with Activision, another hugely successful company that manages to get its games just right (quality over quantity), allowing them to take on EA. Just check Xfire's main page. In the top 10 games played. 4 of them belong to Actilizzard, and the Top 3 are all Actilizzard: WoW at #1, COD 4 at #2 and COD 2 at #3. Problem with EA, is that it spends too much money on superficial stuff, marketing on big name series and expansions, hiring actors to hype up its games, and deliver rushed games that are lacking. Activision and Blizzard don't release nearly as many games as EA, but each game released is done well, very deep, thought-out and a fulfilling experience, that is very replayable. EA wants you excited over a game, play it for a month, get ****** about it, then get hyped over the next expansion/game and forget everything before, and then buy that game, rinse and repeat. Although they tried to avoid that in C&C 3, they still fell into the same trap. C&C 3 was on top 10 Xfire for the first 2 weeks, then dropped off right afterwards.

 

 

P.S. Hey doctor destiny, what realm do you play on?

Edited May 14, 2008 by GeneralZ

[hagren 0]

I see my brother playing everyday with a variety of characters, of which at least two are Lvl 70, so yes, I've seen it, naturally BC too, and I don't find it all that exciting- It's simply too huge for it's own good and I too, don't see what's so great about it- What I see mostly is instances, walking (Or teleporting/using mounts) and brawls- I like the duels and CTFs though.

 

Play(ed) RA2 and TW regularly and yes, I still love them. There has not been any other RTS I love that much, and I tried many.

And imho, EA did a great job with TW. Sure, there's no such longevity as in Blizzard games, but it's far more fun to me.

 

Regarding MMOs, I'm simply the old-school RPG fan- A grinder that's mostly about leveling up, killing monsters, collecting loot and wasting time due to general gameplay is an abonimation to me- RPGs should be about story, morals, choice, interaction, dialogue, immersion and fun. I found nothing of that in WoW, and believe me, I tried. But what I see is blandness/repetition, as I experienced with CoD2- Which brings me to the "Activision-->Better than EA"-point. Out of all the CoDs, they've only got MW and the first installment right. Beside that, there's not a lot of great or influental titles except the Guitar Hero series and id games.

EA on the other hand released many top-notch and/or innovative games. It's just that they milk some series to death- No, I'm not counting in CnC, rather NFS, Sims or the sport titles. CnC3 was one of the best experiences I had in my 16 year gaming life.

 

Destiny: As Yathzee has put it so perfectly in his Halo 3 review, a game getting perfect scores should not have to be justified. So the real fun begins with level 60, eh? What about all the fetch-quests, walking and monster-slaying (Or should I say tedious repetition) up to that point? Blizzard did a superb job with WCIII, but damn, I don't know where all this love for WoW or the beatification of Blizz comes from. Diablo is meh and SC is qite one-coloured despite great gameplay and faction design. The only thing that I adore about Blizz are the easter eggs- I love me some eggs from the bunneez!

 

As generalz mentioned, let's not compare WoW with CnC. They have nothing to do with each other, and I don't refer to quality here.

Edited May 14, 2008 by hagren

[Doctor Destiny 41]

P.S. Hey doctor destiny, what realm do you play on?

I forget but I play on a Euro server with my boyfriend. However, you can catch my brother on Mal'Ganis.

 

Destiny: As Yathzee has put it so perfectly in his Halo 3 review, a game getting perfect scores should not have to be justified. So the real fun begins with level 60, eh? What about all the fetch-quests, walking and monster-slaying (Or should I say tedious repetition) up to that point? Blizzard did a superb job with WCIII, but damn, I don't know where all this love for WoW or the beatification of Blizz comes from. Diablo is meh and SC is qite one-coloured despite great gameplay and faction design. The only thing that I adore about Blizz are the easter eggs- I love me some eggs from the bunneez!

The real meat of WoW's gameplay starts at level 60 and beyond with raids. There are instances and smaller raids for lower levels of course and those are definitely fun to run here and there but questing is really the early game leveling and it is boring alone, I won't disagree but this is an MMO for a reason; you _need_ a friend, or family member to quest with.

 

Diablo sucks. D2 is epic. Especially with mods.

 

Now how can you call StarCraft one-colored? What does that even mean?

[spark 0]

I think the article went with Blizzard since WoW found great commericial success...

 

I am just a C&C fan, so I'm with Westwood... Starcraft and Warcraft games just didn't attract me...