Life after Death

[chickendippers 1]

There is no way to proove that the Big Bang is the correct theory, neither is there any way to proove if a god exists - so by that standard both theories are just as plausable as each other.

 

Personally I find the idea of nothingness before the big bang an easier concept to understand than some sort of omnipresent being.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

So intriquing (again, teh speilingg) About the random appearing particles, wouldnt that be a theory of improbability? Not to be confused with probability, improbability is the exact opposite, how often would the said thing not occur

 

Because there is now more matter in the universe than there was at the begining of radomly appearing particles, wouldnt that make it more improbable that these random particles would appear with a certain random amount of energy attached?

[GeneralZ 0]

An experiment was conducted. an electrical current was sent through a bunch of gases, resembling earth's ancient stmosphere. Proteins formed, which is basis of amino acids, and the basis of DNA was also formed, so it has been scientifically proven how life is formed. And when one dies, their brain shuts down, they decompose and thats it. They don't exist anymore. for afterlife believers, what is needed is a real ghost, or something from the afterlife.

 

There is no definite proof on whether there is an afterlife or not. We don't know what its like or if its real, but does that mean it doesn't exist? (Ponder :?

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Questions, questions. No definite answers.

 

Some theorise that if you truly believe in an afterlife, then youll get one. Some say if you truly believe in Heaven/Hell, youll end up in one or the other.

[Luk3us 63]

Personally I think that any type of an afterlife would be torture.

 

Maybe not immediately but after a few million years its gonna start ta suck. And then you're be reminded that you're gonna be there for the rest of time. How ever long that is....

[BWare 0]

...so it has been scientifically proven how life is formed.

 

:lol: no, it has not.

Oh GeneralZ... I know all about that experiment you are referring to, and it is inconclusive at best. The conditions were so tampered with that it can not be accurately said that life sprang from nothingness.

 

And okay... even if the impossible occured, and those acids really DID come from nothing (even though the building blocks were thrown into the mix in perfect proportions and tampered with by overly-eager scientists), then how did they form as the first cell... a structure of incredible complexity (yes, even the simple "ancient" ones.. the eubacteria I believe).

 

And let's say that that cell did somehow develop. How would it obtain its energy? Everything has to eat. What resources were available to it? The simplest forms of life obtain chemical energy by digesting other living things, and that cell was the only living thing. If it was photo or chemosynthetic, it would be a FAR more advanced creature, and even MORE unlikely to develop at random (if that's even possible). No scientists claim that it was.

 

And okay... now let's say that these impossible odds were somehow overcome, and the cell became a system of cells that became an organism. How do you account for the INCREDIBLE complexity of living species? Look at our eye and its 17 part system of sight. Look at the bacterial flagellate (the most efficient motor in the known universe) and its dozens of PERFECTLY working molecular parts. Look at the very chemical reactions and exchanges inside cells, the ones thought once to be simple by early Darwinists.

 

Systems working in your body right now, and in pretty much every creature on earth, are irreducibly complex. If they truly evolved, then, as they developed, only one component of the whole system would show up in a generation. The system as a whole would not work, making it a liability instead of an advantage, and natural selection would remove it from the gene pool. The variation would die out, and the system wouldn't develop any further. To put it simply... let's say that our eyes were developing. Every part would have to show up INSTANTLY, in ONE GENERATION, or the adaptation would be a needless drain. Imagine eyeballs with no method of watering, no optic nerve connection to the brain, and no adjusting lense (and that's more than half way there!). They would be useless, and a disadvantage rather than an advantage. Oh, and don't even get me started on the human brain... the most complex structure in the known universe. 100 trillion cells, each with 50,000 neuron connections to other cells :shock:. Yeah. Explain that one.

 

 

It just doesn't add up GenearalZ. Creation is the only theory that makes ANY sense.

[J-Fire_Man 0]

In this case, I mostly agree with BWare, however, I don't make this thread to talk about religion. Please continue. I just wanted to know the way of the CNCNZ community thinks

 

I'm not a very religius person but, I believe that when we die, we will be judged wether to go to hell or heaven.

[Luk3us 63]

What about purgatory then? I like that idea if I thought there was anything to the whole "after life" crap. Spend a few while there then off ya go to Heaven.... Not that Heaven would be such a great place... I mean ya won't be able to do anything fun....

[General immeyourenot 0]

In a universe the size of our anything can happen, the odds for all the building blocks of life to come together are very slim, but the universe is so big that it was bound to happen, that is why I also believe that their is life other than ours, although most likely far far away.

 

The God theory is fine for religious types, but it just explains absolutely nothing to the rest of us.

[BWare 0]

In this case, I mostly agree with BWare, however, I don't make this thread to talk about religion. Please continue. I just wanted to know the way of the CNCNZ community thinks

hehe, gotcha. I'm not talking about religion though... :wink:. Religion sucks.

 

The God theory is fine for religious types, but it just explains absolutely nothing to the rest of us.

it explains absolutely everything..... You're not a special type of "non-religious" person here. We're all just trying to figure it out :wink:

 

What about purgatory then? I like that idea if I thought there was anything to the whole "after life" crap. Spend a few while there then off ya go to Heaven.... Not that Heaven would be such a great place... I mean ya won't be able to do anything fun....

That's an awfully foolish way to look at it Luk3us... it's an enigma, no doubt about it, but it would be a place where we would be fulfilling the very reason for our existance, which would bring the deepest joy imaginable. Plus, time would loose all relevance. You're looking at a supernatural thing through natural terminology dude . We wouldn't be stuck in some room with old magazines listening to backround music for eternity :lol:. That would be hell!!!

 

In a universe the size of our anything can happen, the odds for all the building blocks of life to come together are very slim, but the universe is so big that it was bound to happen, that is why I also believe that their is life other than ours, although most likely far far away.

I see where you're coming from, but it still falls FAR short of explaining anything. Mathematicians have looked at this, and they have come up with a percentage that is so small that it is, for all intents and purposes, impossible. Even given infinite chances, the event would simply not occur. The sheer chance that life would somehow come together so perfectly, like it has on earth, passes that threshhold by a WIDE margin. I read somewhere that the odds of even the first amino acids forming together well enough to make any sense at all are the same odds a blindfolded person would have of picking up, in one attempt, the one marked silver dollar in a pile that would cover the State of Texas several feet deep. These odds are mind-blowingly small, and still fall far short of explaining us! Here we are, wondering how we got here. Would matter truly arrange itself to contemplate itself?

 

Look at it this way... even given infinite attempts, could you learn to sprout wings and fly at mach 7 without suffocating? The stuff these early organisms must have pulled put that little analogy to shame. I WISH that stuff could happen... :wink:

[General immeyourenot 0]

I can understand where you are coming from, & I can see why you might think it that way, after all, America is a very religious country, but it just doesn't hit me saying "this is how it happened", after all, there is so much unaccounted for that I refuse to believe it.

 

About the odds thing, no-one knows how old the universe is, it is hard to even speculate, some scientists think that the universe has always been here, even if it hasn't its age will be more than just serveral googleplex-googleplex years! A time so LARGE that IT may well be infinite. In an infinite universe near impossible things are nothing, if it truly is so large then it is more than possible that it would eventually happen.

[BWare 0]

I just covered that though. No, it is not "more than possible." It is more than impossible! The odds are so INFINITELY low that any mathemetician will acknowledge the impossibility. Given infinite attempts, it still will not happen! Spontaneous generation simply does not occur. Ever. Life comes from life! The question is where that life came from....

[General immeyourenot 0]

But the odds for it to happen are not completely impossible, just highly improbable, the formation of life is definatly not impossible otherwise i would not be sat here writing this, there is a chance that it could happen, even if it is a 0.googleplexgoogleplex1 it still exists, & in infinite time everything improbable will eventually happen.

 

Life is nothing more than elements, mixed together to create DNA, enough strands forms an organic life form & there you go, Robert is your proverbial mother's sister's husband. Life is nothing so amazing or increadable really, merely the product of endless drifing particles in an endless universe. Im not saying anything spontaneously generated, & this theory is easily as plausable as the one in the bible, except there is more evidence that this theory is possible, wheras there is not so much to back up the bible.

 

Im not critiscisng the bible, I may not be christian but the old testement particularly is very interesting in some of the things it advises, i just personally don't think it ever could happen.

[GeneralZ 0]

The religious creation story, or Spontaneous generation (abiogenesis) has been disproved by science. (Like magots spawning from rotten meat)

 

It was created by ancient man, who came to conclusions through what he saw with his plain eyes and what he thought. They were the people who thought the earth was the center of the universe, etc. They came to these conclusions with no scientific method whatsoever. They only used their primitive reasoning and imagination. They made up stories to explain things they didn't know about. What proof exists to support the bible creation story? Although the scientific theory is improbable, its still possible. Abiogenesis, or instant creation, is impossible.

 

Personally, I believe in a mix of christianity(being a regular christian as a little boy), and science. I believe God created the origins of the universe, from nothing (caused the big bang), and let it develop by itself, into planets, earth, life.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

I like your thinking GeneralZ. If God micromanaged the universe and its evolutions, then why would Genesis (in the old testament) say that he gave man freewill?

If he micromanaged evolution, would we really be on earth, as a screwed up species as we are. The only species to enslave, the only species to wage war other than for survival, the only species who have tons of time to waste on things that have nothing to do with survival. The only species that doesnt fit into the natural world. Humans play no part in global ecosystems, except to destroy them.

[BWare 0]

The religious creation story, or Spontaneous generation (abiogenesis) has been disproved by science. (Like magots spawning from rotten meat)

:roll: Come on dude... you're smarter than this. The fact that spontaneous generation was disproven is a blow to the flimsy scientific explanation for the origin of life. Not to the creationist theory! The creationist theory is NOT abiogenesis. After all, God wasn't bound to scientific laws. He created them! I'm telling you dude... creationism makes perfect sense.

 

If he micromanaged evolution, would we really be on earth, as a screwed up species as we are. The only species to enslave, the only species to wage war other than for survival, the only species who have tons of time to waste on things that have nothing to do with survival. The only species that doesnt fit into the natural world. Humans play no part in global ecosystems, except to destroy them.

ugh. You are very misguided here my friend... If you want to look at it that way, well, humans are also the only species to feel love, act selflessly, create technology (which benefits us all), and do charity work on a masssive scale. The difference is that we have souls... God-given souls. The animals are just biological machines. The Bible explains that we were created in a perfect environment, but God gave us free will. He didn't want robotic creatures who didn't have a choice but to worship him. We, of course, screwed it up, and were thrown out of that perfect setup (the Garden of Eden...). Now we're in a world where yes, we are very screwed up, and there is much pain and suffering (the result of a seperation from God), but there is an option to reconcile with God. There's still hope for us. Earth is nearly a lost cause though :lol:

[General immeyourenot 0]

Earth is already a lost cause, that is because of what we are doing to it! Global dimming was disguising the effects of global warming, the pollution we were causing was saving us from ourselves, but now visual pollution is being cut down & global dimming is being reduced, global warming is going to cook our planet is less than a century if global dimming calculations are correct, we are allready doomed.

 

As for souls, i don't believe in them, conciousness is fine, that is a fact & the universal consciousness theory is the only one surrounding it that makes sense. When our organic bodies die our consciousness will return to the universe as part of it where it came from, what happens then is unknown.

 

Due to certain circumstances I stopped believing in God at around the same time as the tooth fairy.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Perhaps conscience and soul have a close relationship.

 

And yes, Earth is in a deepening pile of ****. Our fault.

[Luk3us 63]

Souls? Naa.. No belief whatso ever in em'.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Sad. Dont you believe in something anywhere near to something similar?

[Luk3us 63]

No and I don't see how its "sad".

[BWare 0]

I have to agree with Cygnus. It is sad. Nihilism is depressing... and you know why?? It's because we have in us a yearning for something supernatural... something that transcends this temporal reality. Why on earth would we have such a yearning if there was no reason? "Evolution" sure doesn't explain it.

 

And no, the earth is not dying. :roll: For heaven's sake.... global warming is a myth. It's junk science. We are giving ourselves FAR too much credit in thinking we can so drastically alter the climate of earth. Even if we DID manage to cause a climate shift, it would take MILLIONS of years to take effect. For those effected by nature lately... the many hurricanes in Florida last year (me!), or the tsunami disaster, it is hard for me to believe that you are really arrogant enough to believe that we have nature at our mercy. I actually find it pretty funny. Nature is a juggernaut, and a few fumes from our factories aren't going to plunge us into an ice age. :roll:

Tell me this... did you find "the Day After Tomorrow" to be an acurate depiction of our future? :lol:

 

global warming is going to cook our planet is less than a century if global dimming calculations are correct, we are allready doomed.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol:

I'll tell you this: they aren't!

[General immeyourenot 0]

Even IF global warming isnt true, & even i doubt it, the evidence for global dimming is much more substantial that the evidence for global warming. Global warming doesnt exist YET, it might, but for now we are just coming out of an ice age.

 

Global dimming is not a myth, it is true, it is dangerous, already it has killed millions (etheopian famine 1980s - result of GD stopping the moving of rain belt). Carbon emmisions kill. Funnily enough the biggest breakthrough in the global dimming theory come about from the 11/9 twin tower disaster.

[Luk3us 63]

It's because we have in us a yearning for something supernatural... something that transcends this temporal reality

 

You maybe. I don't believe in any of that supernatural crap. :roll:

[Cygnus X-1 12]

I seem to recal a National Geographic article on Global Warming. We may not be seeing its effects yet, but if current measurements are accurate, then in 150 years a map of the Earth will look drastically different. Although here in the States its been pretty cold latley. Not as cold as Russia or Canada, but for midwest U.S. Pretty cold. Doesnt feel like global warming anytime soon.