Controversy in the C&C Community

[Sonic 295]

Its been a heated week in the community this week. And the part I like the most is that CNCNZ.com was at the center of it, well sort of. We posted 2 very hard hitting and straight to the point articles that really struck a nerve with some people, you only need to read the news comments on Lion's CNC Den to see the backlash created by Acerz492's article called The Skaggs Conspiracy. We then stirred things up even more with a verbal assault on EA with C&C King's EA Vs The Ghosts of Westwood article. Of all the people that voiced their anger about these articles I personally believe its a case of the truth hurts, that combined with no future C&C game on the horizon they all simply lashed out. Someone who disagreed with the Skaggs article suggested I screen or approve every article that gets posted on the site, this will never happen because I always want our articles writers have the freedom they need to write and not have a higher authority above them to reject their work.

Good or bad, you can't deny that controversy sets a buzz through the community.

[Saracen 16]

Holy crap, this was supposed to be a basic, "I support a Empire at War game rather than a BfME 2 game". It's turned into something so undenyably controversial, that even Aaron Kaufman has fired back a rebuttal!!! (I think he's rather pissed off at me!)

 

BFME2 is our focus right now. The development team is working extremely hard and we have no angst or David vs Goliath attitude towards our friends at Petroglyph. Goodluck to them, I hope to play a great Star Wars RTS game we've all been waiting for. I can see where anticipation is high. After numerous mediocre Star Wars RTS attempts, when you finally have a team with some experience, then one would be more hopeful. We have our own agenda just as they have theirs, but ultimately, competition is great for the genre. It forces developers to make better games.

 

C&C:TFD is something many many fans are looking forward to. We've also reiterated thru interviews with Louis Castle that we are 100% dedicated to the future of this franchise. Here is a reminder:

 

http://www.gamespot.­com/news/6139246.html

 

Articles­ like the one written above by King don't help me do my job better. If that is the intent of the letter to send some fires up, we already know. I understand you are desperate for C&C news, but that does not correlate with my efforts to grow community support nor should it cover up the efforts that have been made and which are growing. Considering what you had for two years before 2005, i'd say it was a tremendous shift. What I've done with BFME2 is just a sampling. EA awarded me the EA Action Award for Community Support, they understand. This coming year 2006 I am confident I will have a lot more "back-up support."

 

As we build to the launch of C&C:TFD i'll be hosting some very cool promotions and working to interact with this community as much as I possibly can while continuing to manage BFME2 thru. If you want to talk about David vs Goliath, that is the real article to write.

 

I've spent the past year working relentlessly on both communities. I got this community two Zero Hour patches, an exclusive portal thru XWIS to have a community safe haven to play the old Westwood games online, community leader support to celebrate the 10th anniversay, and overall, as much interaction with the C&C community leaders as possible. It is not an easy task and managing my e-mail box is an even bigger challenge.

 

For me, it is just the beginning with this community, but I think this article shows no consideration for the amount of change in community support given from myself as the face of EA to the BFME community and this most-important one.

 

And I ask you this, if Empire at War has a pretty site and has a bigger stake in community, where is their community section? Where are the community leader reports on a community summit? Did they have one? Did they invite community balance testers to their studio to help balance their game? How lively are their official forums? You can have a pretty site, but at the end of the day, people want news, they want interesting stories, and they want an easy way to talk to their community manager. Our site might not have the flash and "play me" everywhere, but it's easy to navigate and it gets the point across. People want to play the real game.

 

I love this community, and that's why I'm commenting on this.

 

Read this article for a recent community event I hosted with the dev team with hardcore BFME players who are all hardcore C&C players as well:

 

http://www.ea.com/official/­lordoftherings..._Community_Test

 

I­ can fully understand the frustration and passionate anger, but I don't agree with the way this article is written. That's my two cents. I look forward to working strongly with this community in 2006.

 

Thanks for listening,

APOC

 

EA Community Manager for C&C

 

I have had e-mails flood in from people supporting me, and e-mails from people saying they question whether I should even stand down as a community leader of the C&C Community. I'm quite shocked by this, but you know what. It's an opinion, and I stand by my guns to what I have wrote.

 

Problem is, certain people are now firing back at Aaron saying why we're upset. People are directly attacking EA's actions, and the community is now rising up against EA by saying that what we're being told is total bull****. I'm just sitting here thinking what an amazing power the freedom of speech is! What have I started guys!!??

 

Evidence of this C&C Community vs EA War is here: http://cncden.com/index.php?action=fullnew...nts=1&id=42

 

Read onwards from Aaron's comments. This could get nasty! :shock:

[Doctor Destiny 41]

I hope people see why I dislike the C&C Den so much. They have too many overreactive twits over there that take everything way too seriously. Give me time guys and I'll write an article myself... and it won't be pretty.

[Saracen 16]

I look forward to that. You can certainly argue down posts in the forums, so this article will pose some serious interest. :wink:

[Sonic 295]

Yeah I noticed Aaron comments on CNC Den, he did seem pissed but now maybe he will get the message. This is the C&C community not the BFME2 community.

 

I have some comments from Delphi (Chris Rubyor) at Petroglyph about the article but I promised Delphi that they would remain between me, him and C&C King. Lets just say what he had to say was interesting, well to me at least.

 

Now if Aaron is all for the community why doesn't he come to the site where the article is hosted and post is comments here. I can't understand why the **** the articles we post on CNCNZ.com generate so much flak on CNC Den :?

 

I hope people see why I dislike the C&C Den so much.

I think you mean you dislike the people who visit/post comments at the CNC Den. Lion is a good guy, don't judge his site by the troublesome users that post their crap there.

[Tree 0]

Lion's good people, I'd agree. But the people over there I can't speak for...

[Acerz492 1]

Good or bad, you can't deny that controversy sets a buzz through the community.

 

Absolutley right. Although, I'm wondering why people haven't emailed me about the controversy surrounding my article. Backlash through a newspost commenting section, on another site entirely, seems very cowardly to me. >_>

 

I have had e-mails flood in from people supporting me, and e-mails from people saying they question whether I should even stand down as a community leader of the C&C Community. I'm quite shocked by this, but you know what. It's an opinion, and I stand by my guns to what I have wrote.

 

Bloody hell, you serious? :shock: Some people...jeez...:roll:

 

Problem is, certain people are now firing back at Aaron saying why we're upset. People are directly attacking EA's actions, and the community is now rising up against EA by saying that what we're being told is total bull****. I'm just sitting here thinking what an amazing power the freedom of speech is! What have I started guys!!??

 

A misunderstood gathering of EALA-bashers/Westwood Purists, dude. Seriously though, here's hoping that it will all smooth out in the end. I'm confident that it will.

[Sonic 295]

More from Aaron in the CNC Den comments....

My comments directed at Petroglyph are not in disrespect to them at all. I see tons of comments from C&C fans claiming that Petro has more heart for the community because they come from the old Westwood team, and we, being EA, do not. I can't speak for all of EA, but when I reference EA, I am refering to my RTS development team. I'm only defending my position based on what i've done this past year and what I intend to do in the coming months and beyond. Yes I am fulfilling a legacy, but that legacy dissappeared the two years prior to my taking this position on. I don't fault any C&C fan for feeling enraged for the dissappearance of a community manager for 2 years, support, etc. I'm filling big shoes, trust me, they are huge shoes. It is no easy feat hitting a brick wall while running lightning fast. Delphi warned me of that.

 

I know nothing I can say will ease this communities pain for more C&C news, but I assure you, we're not just saying we are 100% dedicated just to ease you. Putting out C&C:TFD is a multi-pack we did a lot of research on before committing to. Yes many fans have all of the C&C games already, but the old ones cannot be played on WIN XP without modding them, which many of you may have done, but for the thousands of C&C fans who don't talk on message boards, they appreciate "collector editions", and the Bonus DVD is really going to be a nice treat. The fan videos are absolutely hilarious and well done at that.

 

I'm not asking for appreciation or complaining for lack thereof. That's not the intent of my rant up above nor my role as a community manager. I appreciate you guys and your passion. You choose your own opinion and appreciate what you feel is right for you to. My comments are directed at the arguments made in King's essay, of which I have my own opinion as you saw. I think I am entitled to that.

 

I'm the community manager, not the PR dude, thats why I can come on here and express what I feel just like you.

 

At the end of day, I fully understand your anger and resent and will continue working to erase that. I plan to do more than just use words. I know this is going to be a great year.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Jesus, I go to sleep, wake up 7 hours later and look what happens

 

I agree (not entirely, but somewhat) with Hypnotist abotu how too many people get so rilled up at EA because they ahve a lot on their hands. Yes we have been left in the dark for 2 years, and we all get a little too exited last year when Saggs "announced" the possibility of RA3. And when that didnt happen everyone got all angry at EA. And right after that we saw a huge effort, Arron Kaufman to note, by EA RTS group to get in touch with community. Looking back on C&C 10 and the new patches for ZH, I would say this is a huge accomplishment, considering we were ignored for 2 years. And now they have fullfilled another of our long awaited wishes. All the C&Cs in one package, with XP support.

 

However, the other side has merit as well, what with EA ignoring the community for 2 years. But I think, as I have already mentioned, that we have seen that ignorance totally disapear. I fail to see how people are still mad at EA about things that they wished EA would do. C&C is not their only franchise. What about all fo the BfME fans out there who dont particullarly like C&C ? They have other people to cater to as well. I dont think its fair to rave and rant at them for just doing their jobs. On case you (general you) havent noticed, Generals was inovative for C&C play, and ZH brought it up to a whole new level of play. And even now there are great mod teams mixing things up, such as Boss Generals. People were pissed at EA and blinded by the fact that they didnt give us TT or RA3. Yes Generals was different, and its story isnt anything like RA or TD. But give them a break, everybody has to start somewhere. Looking at it from EA's perspective, their first C&C game they made with almost no-one on the team that was with Westwood, and They did a damn good job on it.

 

my two cents. Take it as you will :wink:

[Saracen 16]

C&C wasn't Westwood's only Franchise either... We didn't see them put a C&C game on hold. :roll:

[Cygnus X-1 12]

No but they also didnt do C&C 24/7

 

and with those games all being on "older" systems, it wasnt as hard to make them happen into a game (not to slight all of the work that does go into those games)

 

And as we saw, the previous community manager at EA suked, now we have Arron, who is giving us quit the effort. I dont think its fair to slight them the way those 2 articles did. HOWEVER, yes we all are frustrated with the aparent "lack" of happenings with EA and C&C. Despite patched for ZH, which should have come long before, but hey, we said we wanted them, and they pulled through. EA got WOL setup with XWIS so older C&Cs could still be played online, helpd with C&C 10th anniversary, and now ahve C&C the first decade out soon. While RA3 or TT would have been a million times better, at least take in stride what we have for us.

 

Besides, they have more franchises than Westwood ever did, plus we have EAW to look forward to. And between you, me, and the whole community, I personaly dont think Petroglyph would want us to be putting them vs EA in a "war" as it is. Despite their history togehter. (or rather, apart)

[Banshee 28]

Holy crap, this was supposed to be a basic, "I support a Empire at War game rather than a BfME 2 game". It's turned into something so undenyably controversial, that even Aaron Kaufman has fired back a rebuttal!!! (I think he's rather pissed off at me!)

 

BFME2 is our focus right now. The development team is working extremely hard and we have no angst or David vs Goliath attitude towards our friends at Petroglyph. Goodluck to them, I hope to play a great Star Wars RTS game we've all been waiting for. I can see where anticipation is high. After numerous mediocre Star Wars RTS attempts, when you finally have a team with some experience, then one would be more hopeful. We have our own agenda just as they have theirs, but ultimately, competition is great for the genre. It forces developers to make better games.

 

C&C:TFD is something many many fans are looking forward to. We've also reiterated thru interviews with Louis Castle that we are 100% dedicated to the future of this franchise. Here is a reminder:

 

http://www.gamespot.­com/news/6139246.html

 

Articles­ like the one written above by King don't help me do my job better. If that is the intent of the letter to send some fires up, we already know. I understand you are desperate for C&C news, but that does not correlate with my efforts to grow community support nor should it cover up the efforts that have been made and which are growing. Considering what you had for two years before 2005, i'd say it was a tremendous shift. What I've done with BFME2 is just a sampling. EA awarded me the EA Action Award for Community Support, they understand. This coming year 2006 I am confident I will have a lot more "back-up support."

 

As we build to the launch of C&C:TFD i'll be hosting some very cool promotions and working to interact with this community as much as I possibly can while continuing to manage BFME2 thru. If you want to talk about David vs Goliath, that is the real article to write.

 

I've spent the past year working relentlessly on both communities. I got this community two Zero Hour patches, an exclusive portal thru XWIS to have a community safe haven to play the old Westwood games online, community leader support to celebrate the 10th anniversay, and overall, as much interaction with the C&C community leaders as possible. It is not an easy task and managing my e-mail box is an even bigger challenge.

 

For me, it is just the beginning with this community, but I think this article shows no consideration for the amount of change in community support given from myself as the face of EA to the BFME community and this most-important one.

 

And I ask you this, if Empire at War has a pretty site and has a bigger stake in community, where is their community section? Where are the community leader reports on a community summit? Did they have one? Did they invite community balance testers to their studio to help balance their game? How lively are their official forums? You can have a pretty site, but at the end of the day, people want news, they want interesting stories, and they want an easy way to talk to their community manager. Our site might not have the flash and "play me" everywhere, but it's easy to navigate and it gets the point across. People want to play the real game.

 

I love this community, and that's why I'm commenting on this.

 

Read this article for a recent community event I hosted with the dev team with hardcore BFME players who are all hardcore C&C players as well:

 

http://www.ea.com/official/­lordoftherings..._Community_Test

 

I­ can fully understand the frustration and passionate anger, but I don't agree with the way this article is written. That's my two cents. I look forward to working strongly with this community in 2006.

 

Thanks for listening,

APOC

 

EA Community Manager for C&C

 

I have had e-mails flood in from people supporting me, and e-mails from people saying they question whether I should even stand down as a community leader of the C&C Community. I'm quite shocked by this, but you know what. It's an opinion, and I stand by my guns to what I have wrote.

 

Problem is, certain people are now firing back at Aaron saying why we're upset. People are directly attacking EA's actions, and the community is now rising up against EA by saying that what we're being told is total bull****. I'm just sitting here thinking what an amazing power the freedom of speech is! What have I started guys!!??

 

Evidence of this C&C Community vs EA War is here: http://cncden.com/index.php?action=fullnew...nts=1&id=42

 

Read onwards from Aaron's comments. This could get nasty! :shock:

 

 

That's funny, but this kind shows improvement on EA support and care about us. Likewise you, I was quite used to bash EA everywhere, until the day I bashed a certain problem there, in a very light way, inside the webbies (which was suposed to be a more private place, not public) and I received an email in the same day from Aaron Kaufman. At least, it apparently sorted prize issues, although [bashMode]I still haven't received any confirmation that was suposed to be sent two weeks ago[/bashMode].

 

But anyway, I'm one of the few webbies here that used to be active in the Westwood days and I never praised them like you guys do. I know they were certainly better than what EA does today. Back then, each C&C game had its own site, which was constantly updated till the time they announced another C&C game. They used proper VBulletin forums and had a good support on forums, also on WOL (although XWIS is much better). Also, the same activities you see them promoting sometimes today, they used to do in the Westwood days, with a bit more frequency. Also, certain features such as publishing fan submitted maps, community site of the month, interview with mod teams (although Aaron did that too, with BfME), the modding school thing for Renegade, constant chat with fans, the events where employees played against the fans, and few other stuff. Also, I miss the fact of having C&C sites properly linked in the game site. This is how I, and many people, find good community sites and join them.

 

But, there were problems too. The main problem is, with the exception of Red Alert 1, Westwood used to stop patching a game too early. YR was left with too many bugs and it only received a patch 2 months after the game release. In this point of view, I really appreciate APOC's efforts on getting a dev team to patch Zero Hour, last year. He's trying the same with BfME 1 now. Westwood stopped supporting WOL properly before their closure, Earth And Beyond fans were abandoned few years after the game release. They didn't had appropriate mod support, until they released Renegade with GMAX. The Renegade Public Tools rocked, but they could have noticed the potential of modding earlier, since it used to boost the community since the TD times. Something I see Aaron doing often and I never seen the old Westwood crew doing before their closure is that he visits several popular community forums and sites, which is a very good thing.

 

There is something that I think it's funny when Aaron says that EALA is "100% dedicated to C&C" is that the community manager has to work on several game series, which is the main reason for his responses be slow, because he gets overloaded. I understand that the studio has several people dedicated to the C&C franchise, but the dev team's current focus is clearly Battle For Middle Earth, which kinda makes his claims invalid.

 

 

 

Very popular places, such as CNCDEN, are hard to moderate and it's a natural tendency to see people overreacting at things. It might suck, unless you already expect this kind of thing and have fun with it. It's also funny how a simple comment from Kaufman can smooth all EA bashers. It shows how people likes to bash people behind them, but once they notice that EA listen to the bashes of the fans, people stop.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

nice to see ya Banshee

 

those are very good points. While I wanst an active community member back in the "Golden Days" I did like the site support, as opposed to what they have now. Patching was a probelm, but people still say its a prob despite EA getting us another ZH patch when it was brought to their Attention that it was requiered.

[Thierry 0]

Simply put...same old story

[Mr_Lee_ 0]

Well I for one am SEVERELY pissed off about having a rebuttal article and something to show Acerz and King what the realistioc minds are thinking and the bloody article template isn't working AGAIN.

 

:x

[Saracen 16]

You'll need to log in to the staff section top attain the new template. Sonic did notify everybody about this :wink:

[Mr_Lee_ 0]

I'm fully aware of that king...

 

Its my first attempt at uploading the article. I'm giving it another shot later, when my willpower is back, including the wonders of paragraphs and grammar.

 

Heres the actual article with paragraphs etc

 

http://www.leepratt.net/articles

 

Its called 'Marketing Strategy'

 

The second one coming soon is called 'Out with the New, in with the Old' - a psychological profile giving reasons why First Decade will beat BFME2, and ultimately EAW.

[Sonic 295]

Article fixed. Details e-mailed to Lee.

[Guest Rabbit]

You'll need to log in to the staff section top attain the new template. Sonic did notify everybody about this :wink:

 

Everybody except me!

[Sonic 295]

I did e-mail you details. Everyone who needed them should have got them.

 

[Guest Rabbit]

Hmm, maybe it's cause i didn't bother since you sent me most of the info over MSNM.

[TheBlackOut 7]

Yeah I noticed Aaron comments on CNC Den, he did seem pissed but now maybe he will get the message. This is the C&C community not the BFME2 community.

 

I have some comments from Delphi (Chris Rubyor) at Petroglyph about the article but I promised Delphi that they would remain between me, him and C&C King. Lets just say what he had to say was interesting, well to me at least.

 

Now if Aaron is all for the community why doesn't he come to the site where the article is hosted and post is comments here. I can't understand why the **** the articles we post on CNCNZ.com generate so much flak on CNC Den :?

 

I hope people see why I dislike the C&C Den so much.

I think you mean you dislike the people who visit/post comments at the CNC Den. Lion is a good guy, don't judge his site by the troublesome users that post their crap there.

 

I wonder what would happen to Aaron if he came here... Sonic, I wonder that too...

 

About the Lion thing, he is awesome. He is real nice and tought me some stuff about who to call on if I needed a map scripted or something, but yes, alot of people over there are fools. Thats why I really particular join the forums there and I have made my little online home on this wonderful community.

 

Tis sad and good what is happening. All I know is EA, you can get me back if you make a new C&C in the next 2 years, you really can. I don't hate you right now, but I do somewhat dislike you EA for what you have done to Dune/C&C/Nox. I have been a C&C fan since I was 5, and about every 1-3 years a new one came up, but when they stopped coming I got DSL and started to join C&C Communities and learned the downfall of Westwood and the possible doom of C&C, but Generals gave me some hope, but it didn't recindle my love for C&C as did RA 2 or TS, but Renegade 2/RA3/TT could make me happy for C&C and EA.

 

I just hope EA will learn soon that most of us will eventually switch over to Petro and never forget what EA did to C&C...

 

When I was little I always thought to myself, "EA is a bigger and richer company, they should be able to do great things with C&C!"... Thats somewhat gone now, they can and still can do great things with C&C, I guess they just don't realize that some much potiental is still in C&C...