French and Dutch reject EU constitution.

[apocolyp4 0]

Unification has its purposes. Like in America. hmm.......What if Europe was like American government, with one nation, but many smaller provinces or states. The government would be in 3 levels, Federal (all of Europe) state (former countries that are now states of the EU) and local (cities)

 

Hehe, once again though, that would be an American influesnce in Europe.

 

Sorry to burst your bubble but that isnt an a American idea of unification or government as its been done in europe for thousands of years. Ever heard of the Roman Empire? That government all most mirrors the US one hell it even created the phrase senate. I could also talk about the Greeks and Even the UK which was founded well before the US. Also it was Winston Churchill in 1946 that came up with the idea of having an united european nation.

 

I beleive the reason that the US is opposed to the idea of a strong europe is that for thousands of years europe has been the dominate force in the world and for the last 60 American has been the top dog due to europe being bankrupt of money, men and resources due to 2 epic wars.

But since then Europe has recovered from the first half of the 20th century and is now becoming the most infuentual when it comes to trading at least. This means Americas bully tactics wont work as a bully might be able to force a someone to do his will but its a different ball game when trying to bully some one when 25 of his friends are standing by him.

[Mina Synd 0]

ah right yah... we are in so much as we get to be in the UN and NATO, and we get basic EU rights. (single votes in group deals, we pay them protection money) etc etc... even if we did unite fully into the EU we wouldn't gain anything out of it, only lose more. As you said, it was generally better for you 'cept the farmers... for us it's the farmers, fishermen and factory workers, some other jobs like that. However it wouldn't improve the economy for us... the pound is one of the highest rates around. i looked into it and the majority of the time, they just change the symbols of the coin type. now what do you think something like that would do do the British lifestyle? we have one of the most comfortable (and expensive) countries in the world. if you suddenly pull an extreme change like that and make it equal, not only do we lose hundreds of years of history in one go, but we're gonna be boosted down back to the stoneage. I doubt the EU is dumb enough to make it that extreme, but they will try to balance it out to such a way it makes it better for them... meaning the British people will definately loose out in the exchange. i do believe they did something like that in Denmark no? one of my friends from another game told me the goverment changed some stuff with the economy and everything got really expensive, but the income stayed the same so a lot of people got poor real fast. and being a student, he really lost out bigtime...

and believe me, before the EU we had a lot of a better lifestyle... like i said previously, we had an empire... then after the wars we fell into a slightly more submissive roll but still strong. The EU has done nothing but take advantage of England so far :

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Excuse me for getting my big American self in the way of European politics. I am aware that the general idea of the foundation of the current Amercian government. BUT, notice how the Greeks and the Romans (Imperially speaking, not of the current citizens) managed to get themselves killed or defeated with internal squabling. Here in the states, the states are a much more unified whole as compared to the EU, but each US state is noted for its own individualality and of the people within. Now their not as individual as European nations, hell, we've been a unified group of states for 229 years, plus we tend to mix everybody up quite a lot. Europe has only been the EU for what, 15 years? (correct me if I'm wrong there) what ever, yo uget the point. On top of that, European nations are completley different cultures, different languages, different ethnic backgrounds, different governments. There tends to be much more disagrements between terrirories in Europe than in the States. Then again, in a general sort of way, the states are all the same culture (essentially) and the same government.

 

Personally, I think the EU is a recipe for disaster, if exploited properly. And in this changing world, America cant be depended upon to come swooping in to the rescue in the event of another major war (that was NOT intended for offense, please dont take any)

 

I think that Europe as a whole should have some sort of lose-ish overal governing body, sort of like an advisory group with reps from each nation wishing to participate, but each nation should keep their own governments, but the Economic ties in Europe would be made a lot closer between the nations than in previous decades.

 

As far as military aid would go, which ever lunatic came up wit hthe idea of GDI was briliant. The UN should be an international economic aid group. Leave the military and political issues to GDI. It would work something like this. When you applied for the military, you would either apply to your nations home defense corps, or to GDI. IF you went to defense corps, but then wanted to transfer, you could. ONce with GDI, you would essentially be required to discard all sense of nationality and favoratism. You would be sent all over the world with either diplomatic units or war divisions. If one nation attacked the other, the defending forces would be holding off as best they could unti lGDI arrived to pound the aggressor nation to the dust. And with orbital command and communications, they would respond very quickly. Every member nation would have limits placed on military size and strength, and member nations would be required to put forth a certain amount of money anually depending on the strength and size of their economy to support GDI. Any nation that owed money due to war debts would be held acountable until they paid off, none of this letting the debt go business (look at the US national debt) GDI would be run by its own military commanders, no embassadors or senate or parliament or any of that crap. Basicallu, no f***ing around with politics of a situation.

 

For example, if a nation build nukes, GDI says "get rid of 'em yesterday, or we will **** all over you" if they dont, then they get pounded. If they do, then GDI troops occupy for at least a year to clear out weapons and what not, then leave. Any GDI base, no matter what country it is in, would be considered on international soil.

[Mina Synd 0]

... uuuh... i dunno if you checked lately but we have the whole continent grouping thing going on... *coughs* they call themselves the UN... and NATO... and for your little GDI assaults? i put this forth to thou! HASN BLIX xD with his angry letters... or of course the whole nato/un storming thing in kosovo an stuff. man that was classic... if europe has a nam, that's gotta be right up there. But i pretty much agree with you in every way there...

only thing is we don't live in a perfect world with Team America or the GDI... go figure :

problem is each country is looking out for it's own people and has it's own visions of global domination with everyone speaking their language. and the way it's going? methinks all europeans are gonna end up speaking some strange long-dead language... like german or french XD!! (i joke i joke. don't hurt me)

[Waraddict 0]

EU has been around longer then you think Cygnus, it started as the ECSC in 1951.

 

and a small note for Mina, the euro is not a large part of being in the EU, if your country doesn't use the euro it's not any less a member, and I would question a country which feels part of its identity lies in its currency, surely there are other British qualities then that?

 

Overall though, I would agree there is reasonable doubt to vote no, however there is a lot of fear about the future of the EU going about, mainly from the fact we are going into unchartered waters and the fact the EU is doing nothing to make understanding of these issues we've been allowed to vote on any clearer.

[apocolyp4 0]

BUT, notice how the Greeks and the Romans (Imperially speaking, not of the current citizens) managed to get themselves killed or defeated with internal squabling.

 

So the American Civil War which cost the lives of 620000 people wasnt an internal squabling?

 

America cant be depended upon to come swooping in to the rescue in the event of another major war (that was NOT intended for offense, please dont take any)

 

Why would we need the help of America since we have a combined force that greatly out numbers America plus we are on a technological par with America. Also Europe has more than enough of a nuclear deterant.

[dapperdan 0]

I don't 'think' I'm European, I AM European, and so are you, I was merely stating a fact, describing myself as European simply indicates that my nationality is one of those that reside in Europe, that being Irish.

 

Being European and Irish is not a mutually exclusive thing, besides you cannot BE European on its own anyway.

 

Next time try thinking.

 

Trust me pal, i aint european, just because i live on a continent so happened to be called europe doesnt make me so. i find it quite offensive to be called european when i am English, and damn proud to be so. just because our political leaders think being one with europe is good doesnt mean the majority of the English, and British, public have to think so.

[Waraddict 0]

You don't get it do you? being European only means you're from a country that's in Europe, nothing further. If you are English, you are European, don't be an idiot and draw this out further, I wasn't talking about some strange new European culture.

[Mina Synd 0]

I also consider myself 100% English. and Technically speaking, we're not Europe as we're a seperate island. sure in politics and geography we are to be refered as "european" but last time i checked, the Irish don't like being considered part of the UK under British rule, so why should the British like being under rule of the EU and losing all of our history? Guess it's one of those strange underdog situations where we feel like we're being crushed or something. I for one still consider myself part of the British Empire xD Sod the French and Germans, i'm sticking to the pound thank you very much.

[Waraddict 0]

There is a lack of logic with the perception of what is European, and like you said Mina, it IS only geography, it's not a particular set of people, saying you're European means nothing but that you're from this continent, its nothing comparable to another country running yours and I would suggest to watch your wording with the independence of my country, we cannot ever be 'considered' to be under British rule, we're not.

[dapperdan 0]

Just because we are on the continent of Europe, still doe not make us european. Go tell the Canadians that they are North American, i'm sure they wont be too happy. Tell the indians that they are the same as Pakistan and that Israel is the same as Palistine. You said that you could never be considered to be under British rule, we could never be considered to be under European rule.

[Mina Synd 0]

Last time i checked, Ireland was part of the UK overall which was pretty much laid down by the British. once again, you as a people don't like it but it's tolerable. and i said "don't like being considered" as in you don't like the idea of it. By proving me wrong, you just proved me right in defending your people as such that they utterly dispise the thought of British rule (technically you aren't, but think of it as a political plothole i set up for you to fall into) and thanks Dapperdan, you worded that perfectly. With that little point you helped prove me right there, proving me right overall

Dispite what newspapers may say, the majority of Brits utterly hate the idea of losing things like trade rights and our currency... for example, today i had to put up with a whole day of idiots in my class doing impressions of French, German and American typesets... the French and German for obvious reasons, and the American because one of the boys' played against an american online on a gamesystem with a headset on.

Normally i'd pass this off as general mass-idiocy, however there suddenly seems to be widespread views like this along with flags flying everywhere. Everytime an EU issue pops up in the news, we become a lil more patriotic. It's now at the stage of weeks after 9/11 in social US (ie: flags, songs everywhere and a desperate craving to hurt anything not of this nation)

Lord knows what other countries have going by ways of patriotism, but i'll stick to what i know.

[Saracen 16]

Well I am not patriotic towards a continent..

 

Most English would rather have absolutely nothing to do with Europe altogether. Although economically impossible most people would be happy to see the back of brussels altogether and let the country run itself entirely without the intervention of the EU.

 

Geographically the British isles is moving at 0.5 - 5cm a year further north away from Europe... It's about time we headed West and started connecting to the USA... that way we'll all be able to easily get to some of the kick ass places in the states.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Heck yeah, you guys had it right back in the 1500's with the american colonies :wink: :wink:

 

The American Civil war: yes it was internal squabling. Notice how 150 years later, the nation still stands strong is twice the size and strength it was back then.

 

The Eu since 1951. See? I didnt know that. Thanks for the update.

 

Nato-primary function-to halt Soviet agression.

 

UN-primary function-to negotiate to stop warfare, to hold and restore peace in war torn area, to provide economical aid to disaster struck nations. Current power in global theatre: next to non-existent.

[chickendippers 1]

Honestly I couldn't care less if we were more-euro, or less-euro.

 

Being more-euro could benefit the country in providing funding for projects (there are so many projects here in Liverpool part sponsored by the EU).

However with the new countries joining I'm sure most of this money would go to them.

I do think it's a double-standard to accept money from the EU for such projects but complain that we'd loose this funding because more needy (sometimes ex-communist) countries could recieve it instead.

 

It's also unacceptable that France and Germany ignore financial limts set by the EU.

[Waraddict 0]

Last time i checked, Ireland was part of the UK overall which was pretty much laid down by the British

 

I'm afraid that unless you were around in 1937 you have just proved you haven't got a clue about the world outside the UK, Ireland has been a fully independant state for 68 years, I hope you're not basing your knowledge on the British people's arrogance of labeling 'British Isles' or 'United Kingdom' across the Irish Republic and the UK on political maps.

 

Only Northern Ireland could be considered part of the UK but even Northern Ireland behaves like a seperate country to an extent compared to the rest of the UK.

[Mina Synd 0]

I was pretty much talking about Northern Ireland. but either way it's not my problem... maybe you lot should stop fighting and sort everything out y'know? i mean i understand everyone has got their political and religious beliefs but surely it should be settled just for the sake of common decency and saving human life... I mean even if Ireland linked together and cut all ties to England/Scotland/Wales, it would be better then the constant fighting... And i'm not basing my knowledge on arrogant views, i'm basing it on political discussions which suggest Ireland is trying to sort it's stuff out o.O; an y'know, when i say the UK, i do mean all four nations. i dunno how you were raised but here we get taught that all four are equals in the UK o.o

The only way i learnt about Irish history was by watching various documentories... so i do know vaguely about the history but i prefer to study on the larger threats... ie: stick to the enemy you know.

 

On the British Isles scooting away: maybe if we got all the patriotic Brits to go to the seaside and swim while holding some ground (maybe with some speed boats pulling too) we might speed it up XD!!!! lolol

In theory i guess we should be slightly concerned for our great-great-great grandchildren... cos they're going to be living in the middle of the atlantic on a tiny island o.O

but then again who cares? the human race (or at least our families) are gonna be wiped out long before then by any number of problems, be it nature, political crisis, war or terrorism o.o

 

Either way can we stop the bloody Irish-English squabbling?! i don't wanna fight with you i love the irish. (was raised alongside some irish kids who got teased about being gypsies.) hell, because i lived alongside them for lord knows how many years i had a heavy irish accent for about half a decade, dispite being pure British born and raised in London XD!!

[Waraddict 0]

Believe me I wish they could figure out the problems up North for once and for all, but what you have to understand is there is a completely different mentality down here, apart from Sinn Féin supporters (which are are a very small minority) everyone down here couldn't care less whether your Protestant or Jew, or even Muslim, up north the Catholics there are hypocrites, frankly I think both sides are equally to blame.

 

In other words, the Republic of Ireland in terms of mentality IS a different country aswell as politically, and I would give you a freindly warning in future (to prevent any other further misunderstanding between you and any Irish) that 'Ireland' on it's own refers to the Republic by default, not the North and rarely the whole island (Island of Ireland is used).

 

As for the EU, I really do see good reasons to vote no (lack of clarity, stubborness to preserve culture and economy is improved at the expense of everything else) , however I would vote yes as I trust the EU and believe my country owes alot to it. Problem is though, the majority of the no camp vote for other reasons.