US Sen. puts motion to Censure Bush

[BWare 0]

...are you actually defending some jackass with a shirt on that has a freaking hammer bashing in the head of the commander in chief during a time of war? There is absolutely NO REASON to defend that "free speech!" Same goes for yelling that you have a bomb on an airplane. There's such thing as legitimate dissent that should be defended. This is NOT it.

 

You know, it speaks volumes that the officers had the restraint not to shoot him on sight. That is just completely unacceptable. I know that you kids love how trendy it is to hate Bush, and that MTV propaganda is so much fun, but come on. This isn't a joke :roll:

Any day we could wake up and find that Bush has, in fact, been assassinated. Stranger things have happened. To wear a T shirt like that is just unbelieveably irresponsible.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

No it isn't. It's perfectly reasonable unless the guy is making a big scene out of it. If he's just wearing a ****ING SHIRT, I don't see the problem. Not to mention, yelling "BOMB!" on an airplane doesn't qualify for free speech since that will cause a panic. A shirt, on the other hand, should not cause such a stir.

 

This is first amendment violation at its finest. Can we get the ACLU on this one?

 

 

EDIT: Don't be a hypocrite, BWare. You'd bitch about the same thing if you were wearing a similar type of shirt.

[BWare 0]

No it isn't. It's perfectly reasonable unless the guy is making a big scene out of it. If he's just wearing a ****ing SHIRT, I don't see the problem. Not to mention, yelling "BOMB!" on an airplane doesn't qualify for free speech since that will cause a panic. A shirt, on the other hand, should not cause such a stir.

The shirt is depicting graphically horrible, violent action against the commander in chief. It's absolutely unacceptable.

This is first amendment violation at its finest. Can we get the ACLU on this one?

I'm sure the ACLU would just loooove that :roll:

EDIT: Don't be a hypocrite, BWare. You'd bitch about the same thing if you were wearing a similar type of shirt.

Are you seriously making a point based on how you think I'd react? Wow that's solid. :roll:

Well, whatever. I'll indulge you. First of all, I'd never wear a shirt like that. EVER. Secondly, if I for some reason suffered major brain damage and decided to, I wouldn't be enough of a jackass to assume that people would be just fine with it.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Are you incapable of being a reasonable person? No, seriously, this is just stupid. I know you're a Bush fanboy, but come on, it's a ****ing shirt. I'd agree that it's not the most intelligent thing to wear but he's perfectly within his legal rights to wear it.

[AnestheticXI 0]

MTV? What is this you speak of? Oh...Those two horrible channels that I can't f'ing stand! Kid, I don't get my information from the news or from "MTV", but from Books. MTV needs to burn in hell. They don't play any good music anyway. >.>

[BWare 0]

Are you incapable of being a reasonable person? No, seriously, this is just stupid. I know you're a Bush fanboy, but come on, it's a ****ing shirt. I'd agree that it's not the most intelligent thing to wear but he's perfectly within his legal rights to wear it.

I am NOT a Bush fanboy. That's untrue and you know it. I agree with him about 70% of the time, probably. "Fanboy" implies that I blindly follow, which is not fair and you know better of me than to think that.

 

So would you consider yourself a libertarian or what? Where do you stand on the political spectrum? I dunno... I'm generally very much an advocate of free speech, but this just seems unreasonably over the line to me. Anything encouraging violence to that extent just shouldn't be accepted, especially considering the current global climate. You DO realize that the president is now under constant threat of assassination, right? This isn't something that should be taken lightly.

How is my line of reasoning "unreasonable" here? Please stop hurling words like that without thinking dude. I see where you're coming from, and I disagree, but I won't call you unreasonable just for disagreeing with me.

 

 

Oh and Anesthetic, shut the hell up already with this "kid" stuff, okay? I'm 20 years old and on my way to med school. You're, what was it, 16, and probably still in high school? Learn your place :roll:

[Doctor Destiny 41]

I am NOT a Bush fanboy. That's untrue and you know it. I agree with him about 70% of the time, probably. "Fanboy" implies that I blindly follow, which is not fair and you know better of me than to think that.

You've been in his defense way too often lately. That makes you a silly fanboy and you goddamn know it.

 

So would you consider yourself a libertarian or what? Where do you stand on the political spectrum?

That stupid political compass test says I'm the far left, which isn't possible cause I hate the far left. I'd say I'm in the middle most of time since I don't back either 'party', and have agreements with each of their philisophies. However, lately, I've not found anything on the right with which I can fully agree.

 

I dunno... I'm generally very much an advocate of free speech, but this just seems unreasonably over the line to me. Anything encouraging violence to that extent just shouldn't be accepted, especially considering the current global climate.

So does that mean we should shut down everything that would be considered racist or prejuduicial? No. Just because we disagree with something or someone doesn't mean we have the right to force our opinions down his throat. Remember, free speech is a two way street. You have to take the good with the bad and bite the bullet when someone says, does or wears something outrageously stupid. Current global climate is no excuse for such a mockery of civil rights.

 

You DO realize that the president is now under constant threat of assassination, right? This isn't something that should be taken lightly.

Well, think about it. Why wouldn't he be? He's done some stupid ****... while I wouldn't do it myself nor do I see it as a good solution, I can see where some of these people are coming from.

 

Oh and Anesthetic, shut the hell up already with this "kid" stuff, okay? I'm 20 years old and on my way to med school. You're, what was it, 16, and probably still in high school? Learn your place :roll:

I thought the same thing.

[General Leang 0]

Have you an image of the t shirt by any chance? I might be able to say whether or not it would be acceptable. Just an an example, here are a few from T Shirt Hell.

 

 

 

These two are alright, but the ones below really are not acceptable in my view.

 

 

Because I doubt Harry Potter fans would enjoy having this spoiled for them, even if it is common knowledge.

 

 

Do I really need to explain this one? This is poor to the nth degree, and as a Christian gives me a reluctent understanding to the outrage of the Mohammed cartoons.

 

 

Given how the real life incident further inflamed violence in Iraq and anti Western sentiment, I would say wearing this is not a good idea if you want an end to tensions with the Muslims.

 

 

Okay, this is in pretty bad taste.

 

 

And considering the real trauma that comes from the school shootings, so is this one.

 

 

A couple of people may like this one, but eagerly watching the death tote board for more victims of terrorist attacks is not only morbid, it portrays you as an ally of Al Qaeda and the Iraqi Insurgents.

 

 

 

Wear these two shirts and I can guarentee that you will get your head kicked in.

 

 

 

Now, yes there is freedom of speech, but I do believe it is accepted that is not an ultimate right. You do not make bomb threats on board a plane, make out and out racist comments or send death threats. Even if you were silly enough to say you had a bomb on a plane that does not automatically mean arrest. You would be removed from the flight certainly.

 

Certainly there has been moves made to amend freedom of speech laws in Australia, and when you take into account flag burnings that is probably one form of expression that should not be allowed. You can still freely criticise and attack John Howard, I was even published this week going after Bush and had faced no reprocussions. To threaten to kill anybody is a crime, and rightfully so. Verbal, written and physical death threats are a crime.

 

With the wiretaps, this is nothing new. The FBI, CIA, N...wait, that one is still classified. They were doing this back when Clinton was in power. And the NSA basically reads everybody's mail, everybody's phone calls, and had been doing it for ten or more years.

[Mr_Lee_ 0]

BWare - have you read the patriot act?

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Have you an image of the t shirt by any chance? I might be able to say whether or not it would be acceptable. Just an an example, here are a few from T Shirt Hell.

Those were hilarious!

[BWare 0]

You've been in his defense way too often lately. That makes you a silly fanboy and you goddamn know it.

So being on the defensive makes someone a fanboy? Does that actually make any sense to you? You can't be that stupid Fenring. I know you aren't.

 

Just because I step in when someone says something ridiculous about my president doesn't make me an apologist or "fanboy" as you say.

 

Just for those of you out there who can't see shades of gray in issues like this, here are the things I despise about the Bush administration:

1) spending like drunken sailors. Tax cuts are great, but at the same time we need fiscal responsibility. The current administration is spending FAR too much... more than many democrats would... and Bush has yet to veto a SINGLE DAMN SPENDING BILL.

2) lack of resolve in securing our borders. With 11-12 million illegals in here and more hemorrhaging over the border every day, Bush isn't being a true leader by offering a real solution. He's playing politics, and it pisses me off.

3) por communication. Bush needs to speak directly to the American people more often, and in a more natural setup. Press conferences are not his friend. Luckily he's been doing this a bit more often lately.

 

So there ya go. I am in no way a Bush apologist or blind "fanboy" (man I hate that word :roll:), but I would say I'm a Bush supporter.... and every American should be at least to some extent because he is, after all, the commander in chief, and we are at war. Simple as that. I would be behind any president in power right now.

 

That stupid political compass test says I'm the far left, which isn't possible cause I hate the far left. I'd say I'm in the middle most of time since I don't back either 'party', and have agreements with each of their philisophies. However, lately, I've not found anything on the right with which I can fully agree.

Okay... but I'm not talking about an internet test dude. I'm talking about the universal political spectrum.... from radical, to liberal, to conservative, to reactionary. It's interesting, because complete and unrestricted freedom of speech is very much a libertarian, or now "reactionary" point of view.

 

So does that mean we should shut down everything that would be considered racist or prejuduicial? No. Just because we disagree with something or someone doesn't mean we have the right to force our opinions down his throat. Remember, free speech is a two way street. You have to take the good with the bad and bite the bullet when someone says, does or wears something outrageously stupid.

You're preaching to the choir man. I couldn't agree more... but there are limits to this philosophy, and frankly I think that the shirt in question leaped over them. Tell me, would you allow Germans in full Nazi uniforms to march down Times Square and claim it for the fatherland? Is this protected free speech? How about if the KKK gathered en masse and marched through a black neighborhood, chanting "death to (insert offensive word)" and burning effigies of black people? Dude, while I wholeheartedly agree that you need to take the bad with the good, I think that the horribly, horribly offensive needs to be considered.

 

Current global climate is no excuse for such a mockery of civil rights.

That is in no way a "mockery of civil rights." You're being overly dramatic dude. Come talk to me when they burst into their house and kill their families because they wrote a bad article about them in the newspaper.... oh wait, that was what it was like in Iraq before we liberated them. Haha, seriously dude, it's hysterical that you're so gung ho about defending this horrible T shirt and then so down on the new freedom of the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan. When their rights were trampled on, it didn't just result in a change in wardrobe :lol: :roll:

 

Oh the horrible hardships these little anti-Bush punk kids are facing... now they're making them change their shirts. What next? A call to their parents? Oh MAN this government is out of control!!

 

Well, think about it. Why wouldn't he be? He's done some stupid s***... while I wouldn't do it myself nor do I see it as a good solution, I can see where some of these people are coming from.

I can't. Also, I don't think that anything he could possibly do would warrant that kind of a T shirt. I would never imagine wearing ANYTHING like that, no matter how much I disagreed with the administration! I couldn't stand Clinton, yet I would NEVER wear anything like that. Do you realize how ridiculous this is?

 

BWare - have you read the patriot act?

Actually yeah, I've read about 3/4 of it or so. It's very lengthy :lol:

Why do you ask?

 

 

Oh and Leang, those were hysterical :lol:

[General Leang 0]

Um, thanks, bu they were not meant to be. They were meant to be an example of why there is not a complete freedom of speech. Go ahead, wear the Koran shirt in Saudi Arabia, or the Arrest Black Babies one around Rucker Park, if you have the guts. Not only would you be upsetting the people there, a lot of them would be seeking to do a lot more than upset you.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

I see your point, BWare. I agree it's crossing a line but he's still able to wear it should he choose to do so.

[Inferno 22]

Wearing t-shirts like that is like crossing a line. But as far as I know, giving your opinion is a lot less harmful than wearing such a t-shirt. They were hilarious though

[AnestheticXI 0]

Oh and Anesthetic, shut the hell up already with this "kid" stuff, okay? I'm 20 years old and on my way to med school. You're, what was it, 16, an

probably still in high school? Learn your place :roll:

 

Nope. You are a kid in my eyes by level of maturity and a few other things you wouldn't really like me to get into.

 

Now, about the T-Shirt, I cannot find the exact one that I was looking for, but I found a few similar ones. The shirt my friend had he aquired from a Ministry concert when they were here a few years back. It depicted the "Commander in Chiefs" head on the center of the shirt with a hammer slamming down on top of him. I believe it said "No W." under that. It had the Ministry logo on the sleeves, and the tour dates on the back. Problem is, I can't find it online. Anywhere. >.>

 

However, I did find a few that I really liked.

 

"Lets get Bush a BJ, so we can Impeach him too!"

 

"If you can impeach a president for lying about having sex, why not impeach one who lied to start a war in which thousands died?"

 

"Bush Lied. Soldiers Died."

 

and a few more along those lines.

[BWare 0]

Nope. You are a kid in my eyes by level of maturity and a few other things you wouldn't really like me to get into.

Are you serious?? Ugh. Just shut the hell up you obnoxious little punk. You aren't impressing anyone, although I'm sure it's fun to talk like this on the internet! You're an awfully big man in text. Careful though, your parents may revoke your internet privileges! :roll:

 

Can we ban this clown or what? He's done nothing but try to pick fights with me since he got here :roll:

 

"Bush Lied. Soldiers Died."

Tell me what lie Bush said. Seriously, just one. If it's about WMDs, then he and everyone else in the world is also a liar for claiming the exact same thing pre-invasion. Before we went into Iraq, there was next to no skepticism about WMDs in Iraq. Only now is it being used as a tool for you little bastards to slander your favorite new target, per the propaganda of MTV or whatever influences your sick, immature thinking. Ugh.

 

Seriously, this kid is getting on my nerves....

[Acerz492 1]

You are a kid in my eyes by level of maturity and a few other things you wouldn't really like me to get into.

 

BWare is pretty mature, his posts may not show it to you but, you see, BWare is a little hot-headed. Not that it's a bad thing, of course.

 

Just remember, personal attacks like that are one way to get a warning from the admins mate, so keep 'em to zero.

 

About these Bush shirts, well, hell, I would wear them in a crowd of Bush fanboys just for a laugh (when I say fanboys, I mean people who cannot accept that there are things that Bush cannot do well or , such as the things outlined by BWare). I wouldn't care if people found them offensive, and if they started anything I'd just say, "Grow up and have a sense of humour".

 

However, the shirts that Leang posted? I'd definatly think twice about wearing them in said areas. However, the Arabs and Blacks I know all have a really great sense of humour, and they wouldn't care, so I suppose it wouldn't be as much of a problem for me.

 

Funny thing is, I find that people take more offence to the Bush shirts than the racist ones. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

[General Leang 0]

If you think Bush is bad you should avoid watching Commander in Chief. McKenzie Allen sends soldiers into Saudi Arabia I think to rescue a prisoner there slated for execution, calls for an overthrow of a despotic country, has air strikes on said country and goes off on Russia because of a journalist they have hostage. Compared to her Bush should be a hero of the Left.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

But that's a mediocre TV series, not real life.

[General Leang 0]

Certainly, but if attacks on Bush have him compared to Palpatine, can defence not be comparing him to an equally fictional character? Or is that a ploy exclusive to the Left?

[Cygnus X-1 12]

Compare Bush to Palpatine-give me a break and a 12 guage PLEASE!

 

We do not loose rights via the patriot act. It really only dirrectly affects us if we are doing something wrong, ie conspiring with terrorists. I think they shouldnt have told anyone about hte patriot act, and just given the FBI clearance to do it. If the media found out about it, you can have those media members arested for jeapordising national security.

 

Now this is the part where all of the democratic and leftist idiots jump in and say "Well then theres no one to spy on the FBI!!" right, becuase they really care about your conversation with your GF, unless it involves blowing up the next baseball game. :roll:

 

Privacy invasion my ass, what are they gona do, black mail you because you talked to your friend about drinking and you are only 17? How many stupid people are there? (Rhetorical question, anyone who answers get slapped by me)

 

Comparing Bush to Palpatine-if I havent heard stupid before, I have now. I dont see Bush actually conspiring with a global power to start a war just so he can take over. I dont see Bush looking to undercut the Vatican (or any other, but this one especially) and betray them (Im not comparing the Vatican to the Jedi, but they both heavily influence everything in their said universes) I dont see Bush drawing up armies out of his pocket. I dont see Bush amending anythign to allow him to stay in office longer. I dont see Bush personally taking over control of every department run by the government. I do see him working to better secure our nation against attacks, and while it is not foolproof (nothing ever is) it is a hell of a lot better since 9/11. I see him working with other Great Nations (ie, Great Britian, and those Canadians who dont live in the Yukon) against terrorism and oppression in the Middle East. I see him continue to give support to NASA to keep our scientific drive alive. I see him attempting to get our economy back in line (attempting, key word there) I see him handling more stress than any president since Kenedy (maybe Reagan) and doing an admirable job, despite having half the nation calling him an uneducated asshole, even though they elected him into office again.

 

Equal to Palpatine? I severely disagree.

[General Leang 0]

I know, I know. Well, Bush haters probably ran out of real life monsters that Bush is meant to be, or they are not evil enough in their eyes. I have to agree that such comparisons are bull. We do not see Bush reveling in his evilness for starters.

[Doctor Destiny 41]

Evilness? He's not an evil person, just inept and daft most of the time.

[Cygnus X-1 12]

therefore he can be nothing like Palpatine at all

 

case closed 8)

 

As long as Hillary Clinton fails in her bid for office, I'll be happy.

[Acerz492 1]

What's up with that? Is she actually going to try and run for president in the next election? That'd be interesting..