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Communism Discussion

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How is that evil, exactly? Because it's money-centric?
Of course. People should be the center instead of money. If you are looking for money and ONLY looking for money, you will forget your humanity.

 

but I never actually said it.
But you actually mean that. Playing word game is fun, huh?

 

Get this through your head- An acknowledgement that there will always be evil men does NOT equal a moral copout on your part.
Ok I got it now. But I just wonder, if everyone are cleansing themselves, where's the evil person?

 

You have NO reason to hold a grudge against us.
Of course we have. The goverment didn't even told you why we have.

 

That was a clash of civilizations- industrial age meets stone age.

How can you claim ANY moral superiority with a straight face??

Let the weaker died out itself is a beastly behavior. And yes, I'm a Chinese, but I claim here because I hate what my country have done while you are supporting your country's.

 

I'm not sure -at all- what that last sentence meant, but you, as a "communist," SHOULD care about how communism is applied in the real world!
You are even not a communist, so you have no right to tell us what's a true communist.

 

And, as I've said a dozen times already, people CAN NOT be that "pure."
I must tell you that those massive bloodshed, are against someone that very evil. I don't think you are such an evil but why you fear?

 

It doesn't bend anything in my mind.
It already bend something. Drunk people never says "I was drunk", they say, "I'm far from drunk, gimme more wine!"

 

I have faith (well grounded faith) in capitalism. That's not "a faith" either.

My faith is in Christianity. THAT'S "a faith."

 

Seems you did have faith in capitalism. Otherwise, you will renegade from it anytime.

 

And we could call Christianity a religion here.

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I actually think capitalism is more evil because everyone is looking for money...
How is that evil, exactly? Some of the worst attrocities in the last century have been committed by communists, whereas capitalism has brought unimaginable wealth and prosperity to ALL the citizens of the countries that embrace it. How is that evil, exactly?

 

Um Bware who is feeding you this? Its almost as if your buying into corporate sponsored propganda. Capitalism has been the main cause of the poverty gap widening. Statistically 75% of the worlds wealth is now owned by only 15% of the worlds population. Even focusing solely on a developed capitalist nation such as Australia, ranked 3rd in the UN Human Development Index, the breakdown follows this trend. The richest 20% of Australians hold approximatly two thirds of the nations wealth.

 

The problem of social inequality does not apply solely to countries of the global south, and the UNDP report excellently describes the consequences of discrimination and social inequality for the national health system in the USA. 45 million Americans had no basic health insurance in 2003. 21% of Afro-Americans and 34% of Hispanic Americans were included in this number, but of white Americans only 13% had nohealth insurance. Consequently the infant mortality rate among Afro-Americans was twice as high as among white US citizens. According to the UNDP summary, the USA had access to the newest medical technology and most up-to-date forms of therapy, yet social inequality significantly limited the scope of medical progress.

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Ghostalker... You don't see what is bad about pure Communism and Capitalism?

 

In Communism people work in a factory (example) and this one guy is very fast and more productive in the factory, well that doesn't matter. He might get done faster and could be earning more money than his lazy coworkers, but he doesn't, because in Communism, its all the same. Everyone should have the "same" stuff and everything.

 

Capitalism.. If he was faster and more productive, that would bring the best out of him. He'd get promoted and move up in life. He'll reveal his full potential. That's what Capitalism is about, your potential. But Communism, there is none. You're all the same, it doesn't matter.

 

 

There are bad things about both, but I say more good lies with Capitalism. Also, there is no true Communism. Sorry, but no government could rule all its citizens without fear, oppression, and military muscle, its not possible. If you can name one nation within all of Earth's mighty history that ruled with Communism without any type of force that lasted longer than 25 years and prove it, I'll say Communism forever.

 

Its all about potential.

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@Ghoststalker- I'm going to quit the discussion with you right now. The language barrier is just too high... Your English isn't too bad, I guess, but it falls FAR short of anything except a very basic exchange. You're not understanding a single thing I've said.

 

Um Bware who is feeding you this? Its almost as if your buying into corporate sponsored propganda. Capitalism has been the main cause of the poverty gap widening.

Is that so? I'll have you know that there has been a massive "poverty gap" throughout pretty much all of history. Blaming it on capitalism is just silly.

 

Statistically 75% of the worlds wealth is now owned by only 15% of the worlds population.

Aaahhhh... I LOVE it when statistics used against me actually strengthen my argument. Alpha, I want you to try to wrap your head around something. First of all, I'd like to see you try to back up those stats. They're pretty far reaching. Secondly, I want you to look at my claim and then again at your statistic there. My point was that the machine of capitalism brings wealth to everyone it touches. You responded by immaturely whining that some people have "disproportionately more" than the others. Think of it like a large pie. Everyone gets a slice, but some people get a much larger slice (bitch about it all you like, but that's reality). Now capitalism makes that pie grow and grow and grow.... until even the tiniest slivers are big enough to feed a family. The gap is all but impossible to avoid, but capitalism brings wealth to everybody with a stake in the pie. What's better is that, in the course of your life, you have plenty of opportunity to grab MORE of the pie and increase the size of your slice! That's freedom baby.

 

Now the communists, on the other hand, seize the entire pie from the start and then ration it out as it shrinks and shrivels into nothing, their people starving all the way. So yeah... capitalism FTW.

 

Even focusing solely on a developed capitalist nation such as Australia, ranked 3rd in the UN Human Development Index, the breakdown follows this trend. The richest 20% of Australians hold approximatly two thirds of the nations wealth.

Again, what does this even prove?

It's you looking from your house with plumbing, electricity, and internet acces and seeing your neighbor who has a bigger tv, and then feeling sad. GET OVER IT. Just because people have more money doesn't hurt you in any way. You've still got your slice, and you know that you'renot going to be starving to death any time soon :wink:

 

 

And in that UN Development Report (hell of an organization to cite, by the way :roll), it noticeably fails to point out that there is ample opportunity in this nation for ANYONE to do as well as they want to do! You're free to sink or swim. The choice is up to you.

It points out infant mortality rates and the disparity there between race groups. It fails to mention the stats for the number of children born out of wedlock and to teenage mothers in those certain groups. Clearly they aren't suited to handle the financial or time burdens required by children at those ages/situations, but yet they choose to have sex. The difference there is not an injustice in our system. It's a representation of a larger percentage of irresponsible people, a CULTURAL, not NATIONAL failure. In America, stats like these tend only to prove problems with the group and not with the system. The system is open ended! You can sink or swim, depending on what you choose to do. Nobody is holding a gun to your head... This isn't China. :wink:

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Yes and i see why i should believe your unsubstanciated claims over the US.

 

Let me run you through Economics for Beginners. As people become wealthier the cost of goods and services also increase. As average walth increases so too does inflation. As the wealth distribution gap widens WHILE wealth continues to increase across the board, costs continue to increase based loosly on the average wealth that was thrown out of proportion by small percentage that owns practically everything. The effects are seen throughout developing nations.

 

And again some proof of what im saying (yes Bware UN statistics again) Since opening up of world markets, 70 develiping nations are now poorer than they were in 1980 (that sorta kills your argument that everyone gets richer). Also these nations are democratic and the majority of which have been receiving aid from the World Bank and various other nations and NGOs.

 

Take Ethiopia as a case study. Before foreign investment, food supplies in Ethiopia were much higher as their economy was based on subsistance farming. now however the majority of Ethiopias productive farmland is foreign owned and the food produced is exported by the parent company leaving Ethiopia with hardly enough to support itself and without the money to import.

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Guest Rabbit

**** you, and your ****ing debates in every ****ing forum thread.

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Ghostalker... You don't see what is bad about pure Communism and Capitalism?

 

In Communism people work in a factory (example) and this one guy is very fast and more productive in the factory, well that doesn't matter. He might get done faster and could be earning more money than his lazy coworkers, but he doesn't, because in Communism, its all the same. Everyone should have the "same" stuff and everything.

 

Capitalism.. If he was faster and more productive, that would bring the best out of him. He'd get promoted and move up in life. He'll reveal his full potential. That's what Capitalism is about, your potential. But Communism, there is none. You're all the same, it doesn't matter.

 

 

There are bad things about both, but I say more good lies with Capitalism. Also, there is no true Communism. Sorry, but no government could rule all its citizens without fear, oppression, and military muscle, its not possible. If you can name one nation within all of Earth's mighty history that ruled with Communism without any type of force that lasted longer than 25 years and prove it, I'll say Communism forever.

 

Its all about potential.

 

 

 

You are right, but this is a passive mood called "Lazy", which should be remove.

 

 

 

 

And I'm going to quit the discussion because my English is not very good. And my anger may lead me to misunderstand. I should stop. The truth will still be truth even if every cruse it.

 

BTW, In communism country, maybe there's a bloody revolution, but it's only in the beginning. And the same time, in early British, the early Capitalism is bloody enough.

 

 

 

P.S. to SovietBlackOut : I love your style, you are the real one who make a debate. Bware and I are just like simply argue...because we both angered each other. Sorry to argue here, and sorry to let you see my crazy side. m(-_-)m

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**** you, and your ****ing debates in every ****ing forum thread.

 

No ones forcing you to follow it. Just ignore it if you dont like it. Thats what i do with the music one.

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@ Alphabear - you are a supporter of Capitalism, and have lived off of it your entire life, correct? So I ask, why the hell are you sporting an argument (:roll) against it? IN capitalsm, if you work harder, you will earn more. If I work 17 hours and BWare works 20 hours, he earn more money, and lets just say that King leaves the shop after his shift and its sprkling clean and the store is getting complements left and right, hes more likely to be promoted than (for example) Louis who just sits in there and ignores customers and doesnt clean up after himself.

 

The true "equal" opportunity in this world resides within capitilasm. Everyone has the chance to do their best. Those who dont, get left behind.

 

-Sure the whiteman has killed quite a few Native Americans, displaced them, and fought them off. Defending his own territoy, family, and way of life. No Capitalist ever ordered the deaths of 20 million of their own people because they feared that those who could think would rise up against them. Why havent capitalistic countries ever had to do that? Because the leaders know that the people all have the chance to earn a living and work for it. There is NO oppression, there is no rationing of wealth by the government.

 

Some of you state stats that say X% of the wealth is in Y% of the population. Sure it is. Now look at the population minus Y%. Still pretty well off in those countries. Now look at say..Cuba and the USSR. Much more wealth in much less people's hands, and many more poor people with even less money. Yet you would still call capitalsm evil....

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I'm digging the way this thread swerved right off topic into "AMG AMERICA IS EVIL BAD COMMUNISM OOLOLOL" land.

 

Quite seriously, I thought this was a topic about if you're gonna preorder and get C&C3 or not. Please, create your own Crybaby Politics Thread and let everyone else continue talking about... well, buying C&C3.

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Im buying it. Even though I may not have a comp to run it.

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-Well said on that earlier post Cygnus.

 

Alpha, don't talk down to me about economics. I'm well aware of those -general- trends, and I know full well that they aren't iron-clad rules. You're speaking more in terms of microeconomics. I'm talking global trends, and larger trends that override those that you cited. Your rules require a tiny, closed market, and frankly don't really apply too well in the real world. You may not understand this, though, since, despite the overwhelming evidence, you're arguing pro-communism and anti-capitalism :haha:. If you're so intent on bemoaning the evils of capitalism and the horribel *gasp!* disparity in wealth, then what do you propose to fix it? It's so incredibly easy to point out a problem.... even though, as Cygnus (the realist) pointed out, there ISN'T a problem.

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Um Bware who is feeding you this? Its almost as if your buying into corporate sponsored propganda. Capitalism has been the main cause of the poverty gap widening. Statistically 75% of the worlds wealth is now owned by only 15% of the worlds population. Even focusing solely on a developed capitalist nation such as Australia' date=' ranked 3rd in the UN Human Development Index, the breakdown follows this trend. The richest 20% of Australians hold approximatly two thirds of the nations wealth.

 

The problem of social inequality does not apply solely to countries of the global south, and the UNDP report excellently describes the consequences of discrimination and social inequality for the national health system in the USA. 45 million Americans had no basic health insurance in 2003. 21% of Afro-Americans and 34% of Hispanic Americans were included in this number, but of white Americans only 13% had nohealth insurance. Consequently the infant mortality rate among Afro-Americans was twice as high as among white US citizens. According to the UNDP summary, the USA had access to the newest medical technology and most up-to-date forms of therapy, yet social inequality significantly limited the scope of medical progress.
  • In capitalism, you can't be lazy and prosper...the reason 90% of those people are in poverty would be because they are just living their lives, not trying to thrive/do better...that takes discipline :wink:

[*]I'm not commenting on the study because I see the UN as a worthless piece of crap that does no good, and can't (and doesn't have to intestinal fortitude to) enforce it's resolutions against terrorists or anyone who threatens it :roll:

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preordering it.

 

hypno whats wrong with arguments...u caused madbadger to be kicked casue u made an uproar when he argued with sum zh newbies and now ur complaining about having a heated political discussion in the forums...calm down man....although this should be a topic on its own. digression!

 

now to the arguments:

 

 

lets see....all these poor african 3rd world countries....maybe if they stop shooting each other and making civil war, they wouldnt be so poor and have many deaths....but no....all that money we send over is used on type 54 machine guns thats are 100$ each from china, and rpg-7s and ak47s. (type 54s are chinese copy of the ak47 but much cheaper)

 

i agree the UN is useless. i support Bolton all the way. the UN only hinders us down. why are tiny little countires rotated around on the security council when they dont have much military power? how does several poor countries will small economies and influence manage to drag us down with their votes?and yet we still pay most of the UN funding. we should cut payment for a year just to make a statement how the UN is weak and useless....not to mention most of europe are cowards and infiltrated by muslims. only the brits stand with us and the muslims who oppose our policies can go screw themselves over. what got me angry was in the news, sum british muslim leadership group blamed british policies for causing the terrorist acts. they are so stupid...its the terrorist who want to kill innocent people who are to blame....but no they'll rather smooch up to their fellow jihadists in iran.

 

and about communism...: dunno how this argument got so complicated.....

i believe communism is a failures and those who believe in it are dummies.

 

capitalism gives opportunity to entrepreneurs and every1 has a chance to work hard and get richers. theres incentive to work harder

 

communism on the other hand....look at the former USSR. many factory workers were very unproductive...no matter how much they worked, they all got paid the same. so whats the point of working hard, if u still get paid the same if u do nothing?

 

true, laziness should be gotten rid of...but its human nature. external influences like money are needed to overcome our laziness.

 

so stop living in dreamland and snap to reality. capitalism works and is good. communism is an utter failure. the only communist country thats actually doing ok today is china, and its booming. why? cause its adapting capatalist polivies, allowing a more market economy. i think of china as communist government+capatalist economy.....they are such big hypocrites...

 

there is NOTHING GOOD ABOUT COMMUNISM. and if u live in a capitalist country like the US :), u should be deported to cuba or sumthing and see whats real communism is like.

 

i'm proud to be a capitalist. 100% capitalism!

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Well said, except General, you forget this is a forum not an aim box ( :wink: )

 

Ever wonder why the US has illegal immigration problems with Cuba? Because the people there hate the COMMUNIST governement.

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**** you, and your ****ing debates in every ****ing forum thread.
I'm getting tired of your complaining whenever we have a civil debate. If you don't like it, then don't read the topics. Thank You.

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Communism is a hell of an idea and it would work if it weren't for 2 flaws: you need an iron fist central government to keep everything running and human nature.

I mean, amirite?

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yourite :D

 

except for the fact that people accomplish more when they are rewarded fr more effort...incentive creates accomplishment a lot more than getting the same no matter how hard/well you work :wink:

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Communism is a hell of an idea and it would work if it weren't for 2 flaws: you need an iron fist central government to keep everything running and human nature.

I mean, amirite?

Yessir :haha:

Those are damn big flaws too. But you missed one (F15 touched on it). People only work really well when there's a reason to do well. Remove the incentive for work (ie, wealth), and civilization falls apart. It's like a cell... when the ion/nutrient gradients reach equillibrium, the cell dies. There MUST be differences and inequities for a living thing to exist, including and especially an economy. Equality is stagnation is death. Welcome to the real world hippies!!! :P

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haha..thats why i am getting a yingyang tattoo..specifically a pheonix symbol thats filled in with the yinyan design....represents the need for difference...i wont preorder i never did and never will...ill wait till i read reviews then buy it.... 8)

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In capitalism, you can't be lazy and prosper...the reason 90% of those people are in poverty would be because they are just living their lives, not trying to thrive/do better...that takes discipline :wink:

 

Paris Hilton?

 

People in developing nations work harder than most of us in developed nations. They need to if they want their 50c US a week. I see how thats fair.

 

The problem I have with capitalism if that if you succeed you are doing it at the expense of others. And most of the time to get the better positions its not how hard you work, its who you know. I can live with most of the problem in capitalism, but the way big bussiness exploites the working class and developing nations. One of my mates is an ethieopian refugee and came here in 2002 so he knows firsthand how those corperations work and its not pretty

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well well well f**k it up you dude.

ask any dude who ever works in China and mostly they'll find it;s not quite different to work here.and who cares? just do what you want and get you pay. and finish this stupid politcal thread.

It's time to finish the sin.

and GeneralZ haven't you got a family in China?

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om... ok

 

ask any dude who ever works in China and mostly they'll find it;s not quite different to work here.and who cares?

when you say here do you mean china also because thats where you location is?

 

Im not sure if im gonna preorder it yet. I definatly will get it when it comes out but it depends if i will get anything extra for preordering

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Unfortunatley, not everyone is lovey-dovey (thank Bob) and people get greedy. Human nature revolves around being better than others. Some people get that by being greedy and accumulation wealth. It happens no matter what economic system you live under.

 

China wont ban Tiberium Wars will it? Ya know, the whole anarchy in the Yellow zones thing wont get to them will it?

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In capitalism, you can't be lazy and prosper...the reason 90% of those people are in poverty would be because they are just living their lives, not trying to thrive/do better...that takes discipline :wink:

 

 

 

People in developing nations work harder than most of us in developed nations. They need to if they want their 50c US a week. I see how thats fair.

 

The problem I have with capitalism if that if you succeed you are doing it at the expense of others. And most of the time to get the better positions its not how hard you work, its who you know. I can live with most of the problem in capitalism, but the way big bussiness exploites the working class and developing nations. One of my mates is an ethieopian refugee and came here in 2002 so he knows firsthand how those corperations work and its not pretty

I didn't say it was completely fair did I? The world's not fair. And it's not fair in communism if you work harder, but don't get more benefits :wink:

 

btw, when the big businesses go into developing countries (sometimes poor) they bring jobs to that country, which helps it's economy, because money from overseas is flowing into the country from the people that business hires :wink:

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