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Nmenth

Conspiracy!

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okie i'm gonna try to keep this as short as possible (ha! XD)

 

mace? lordie no. like i said, non-lethal defences such as rubber bullet rifles and things... it's all fair and dandy giving people guns... but if you give everyone a gun do you really think people won't mess with them and use them? not to mention if you give guns to people that haven't had much experience with them may end up shooting themselves or other passengers...

 

i mean it would be good if during a terrorist attack all the passengers had guns... but you can bet it would end in a lot of casualties on both sides. passengers would shoot themselves or try to go against the terrorists and discover at a bad time what a safety catch is.

 

unless you mean keeping all the guns stored away incase of a "situation" and everyone had been told how to use them at the start of the flight then maybe...

but remembering that there probably would be some kind of legal issues involved, especially if there is an accident like someone shoots themselves or a civvie shoots another civvie...

 

and y'know, we'd all rather miss out on the delays of security checks... but the fact is these checks regually catch criminals out. drug runners, wanted escapees, and the occassional nut who plans on pulling something... among other types. face it, security checks are a necessary evil. we may not like them but they keep out 99% of the people who would screw with our lives...

 

yah it's a pain... but if we didn't have airport security checks everything in our way of life could be destroyed. and i mean that literally... for all we know someone could bring in an animal or plant-based disease which could destroy the enviroment (the simpsons, aussies and bullfrogs anyone? XD it happens...) and quite frankly i'd rather run the risk of being delayed for a while then some nutball with a knife suddenly jumping out of his seat and stabbing loads of people. even if it's not a terrorist, just some guy carrying a bowie knife.

 

...i'd rather not run the risk...

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mace? lordie no. like i said, non-lethal defences such as rubber bullet rifles and things... it's all fair and dandy giving people guns... but if you give everyone a gun do you really think people won't mess with them and use them? not to mention if you give guns to people that haven't had much experience with them may end up shooting themselves or other passengers...

 

That's fine, but how would you tell the guns that shoot rubber bullets from the ones with live ammunition?

 

i mean it would be good if during a terrorist attack all the passengers had guns... but you can bet it would end in a lot of casualties on both sides. passengers would shoot themselves or try to go against the terrorists and discover at a bad time what a safety catch is.

 

That's why during teaching them the self-defense stuff, you remind them how to properly handle the weapons in what situations. If they forget that within a minute or whatever like you'd said before, well, that's their problem. Otherwise, fear of chaos like that should diffuse a situation before it can get started. Such is part of the advantage I described earlier.

 

unless you mean keeping all the guns stored away incase of a "situation" and everyone had been told how to use them at the start of the flight then maybe...

but remembering that there probably would be some kind of legal issues involved, especially if there is an accident like someone shoots themselves or a civvie shoots another civvie...

 

Then I have an idea. What about keeping the weapons easily and publicly accessible from about anywhere on the aircraft, but they can ONLY be unlocked by the pilot and co-pilot? Of course, there's the problem of terrorists storming the cockpit and the pilot and co-pilot being killed before the self-defense weapons can be unlocked, but why not put a terrorist alarm system in each seat? Like... above each seat is a button. Push it once, you make a loud din to allow others to know what you're doing. Then the button locks itself for 5 seconds to avoid rapid pushing, then one more push makes more noise, then one more after THAT, the cockpit gets an alarm and an indicator to unlock the weapons. Not the best idea I've thought of, but it would suffice in the short-term.

 

and y'know, we'd all rather miss out on the delays of security checks... but the fact is these checks regually catch criminals out. drug runners, wanted escapees, and the occassional nut who plans on pulling something... among other types. face it, security checks are a necessary evil. we may not like them but they keep out 99% of the people who would screw with our lives...[/quote

 

yah it's a pain... but if we didn't have airport security checks everything in our way of life could be destroyed. and i mean that literally... for all we know someone could bring in an animal or plant-based disease which could destroy the enviroment (the simpsons, aussies and bullfrogs anyone? XD it happens...) and quite frankly i'd rather run the risk of being delayed for a while then some nutball with a knife suddenly jumping out of his seat and stabbing loads of people. even if it's not a terrorist, just some guy carrying a bowie knife.

 

...i'd rather not run the risk...

 

No, they don't. Go try even a theoretical comparison in your head of drug runners/convicts/etc. vs. clean people that have been checked at airports. Which gives me another idea. Why not, instead of in-terminal checks, on the way to the aircraft, you walk smoothly through a scanning system divided into 2 sections after the scanner itself, which would have x-rays, food and drug detectors, bomb detection, etc.; the first section is a straight run to the airliner, which you'd go through if the system did not indicate as you passed through. The second is a re-routing for just that passenger, they get a quick but thorough hand check by personnel, and if he's clean, he can double back through the system and board the flight without causing much of a fuss. If he's flagged, he can't board the aircraft.

 

Even before 9/11, how often did an in-flight attack of any sort occur? Security was relatively lax way back then, which allowed the hijackers to board the 4 flights on that day, but before that, things seemed pretty fine and dandy most of the time.

Edited by Fiesta

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Has anyone seen the plastic forks & knives they give you on Qantas flights nowadays? They're pretty sharp looking, I reckon you could do some damage with them and they give them to you ON the aircraft.

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i dunno. all i know is on british airlines (and apparently american ones) after 9/11 they changed the cutlery to blunt plastic sporks o.O; you could most likely still kill someone with them... but let's face it, if you tried hard enough you could kill someone with a piece of paper...

 

and really you need -something- to eat your meals with on the plane o.o;

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Tbh a well trained person can do heaps of damage with their own body, weapon or not their still gonna kick the average persons arse.

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An easier solution would to have the cockpit door locked and only unlocked from the inside while in flight with a camera mounted on the cabin side of the door. That way if there are terrorists on board the pilots simply don't open the door.

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yaaaaah... they've already had that system installed in planes since the 70's...

the reason the terrorists gain hold of the plane is because THEY HAVE A PLANE LOAD OF HOSTAGES... all they have to do is hold someone up to the camera with a weapon pointed at them and the pilot -has- to open the door, otherwise they end up with a massacre on their hands.

 

although the pilots are given these security measures, the whole crew is told to completely obey any terrorist demands. kind of renders the door a little pointless y'know?

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yaaaaah... they've already had that system installed in planes since the 70's...

 

Uhh...... where in hell did you get this idea? If there were cameras on the planes AT ALL, the 9/11 hijackings would have been quite difficult if not impossible since the pilots would have seen what was going on. Of course, since they were to follow demands in the first place, the terrorists could have easily said "open up or we'll kill all the passengers" and done it anyway.

 

the whole crew is told to completely obey any terrorist demands. kind of renders the door a little pointless y'know?

 

They were up until 9/11. That was a contributing factor as NOBODY on board ever thought the planes themselves would be used as weapons against high-profile buildings.

 

I may also note it would take a lot more work to kill someone with a plastic spork than with your own hands and feet. Which is sort of the point.

Edited by Fiesta

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i wasn't talking so much about the camera systems... but more the bigass doors. they have those little spyglass things to see through them (or they did have until recently. NOW they have cameras on some airlines...)

 

aaaand it's just as easy to kill someone with a spork as hands and feet. possibly easier... if you are just an average joe off the street, there are many weak spots on a human which a spork could do damage to... o-o; mainly the eyes and neck...

 

assuming you had average or high training, you could probably do lethal damage with both spork and hand...

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This is a locked battle between stubborn opponent, it probably will never end, anywhere.

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This is a locked battle between stubborn opponent, it probably will never end, anywhere.

shhhhhhhhh you're only egging them on :P

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...the "QFT" threw me for a minute there o.O; i was like "wut? quantum field theory? how does that even gel with the topic..." before i worked it out xD;

 

because sporks are awesome. we all need sporks. you need it. he needs it. i need it.

 

i mean c'mon, how cool would it be to kill someone with a spork then be able to brag about it? XD

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lol I was like "I love sporks, lets cut the tension" :P

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i mean c'mon, how cool would it be to kill someone with a spork then be able to brag about it? XD

You're cool until one of your friends turns you in for reward money and then Bubba makes you his new old lady when you're convicted. Yeah, real cool. :rolleyes:

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You're cool until one of your friends turns you in for reward money and then Bubba makes you his new old lady when you're convicted. Yeah, real cool. :rolleyes:

Hey, Bubba gives you protection... for a price XD

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aaaand it's just as easy to kill someone with a spork as hands and feet. possibly easier... if you are just an average joe off the street, there are many weak spots on a human which a spork could do damage to... o-o; mainly the eyes and neck...

 

assuming you had average or high training, you could probably do lethal damage with both spork and hand...

 

...what? Plastic sporks aren't dangerous unless you go for the eyes, neck, or the balls, like you said. They're just too dull. It's much faster to use your hands and feet.

 

Well that's a given.

 

Bly, you be silent unless you want to try to help. Which I can't see happening.

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I can't believe that its been seven over years and you guys are still talking about 9/11, which is "done by demolition and those power mongers are responsible blah blah blah". Get over it. So what if its really power mongers? or so what if its really terror attacks? its over.

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The reason people like us don't quiet down about it a whole lot when it's brought up is because the official investigation took an enormous amount of time, and conspiracy theorists like to base their claims on that fact as they can effectively argue unopposed by the government. Which is exactly why they're wrong, as Doc. Destiny and I said before.

Edited by Fiesta

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also the fact that it's never technically over. it doesn't matter if it's the/a government or terrorists, at the end of the day there will always be a continous threat. because it is a plan and an ideal, it can't be stopped unless you completely crush them

 

as the original people grow older and/or die, others will take their place. you can't win. THAT'S why we talk about it. we want to know who did it and why. if we find that out, we can make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

if it was terrorists, we can find out exactly who was responsible and who funded them and stop the processes. if it was a government we can weed out all those responsible and crush the plot.

 

i think the conspiracy theorists are just worried that the american government did it, and as a result they no longer feel safe in their country.

 

...

 

also plastic sporks are good weapons in any sense. even something blunt can do damage... it's not like a plastic knife. the only way you could do damage is if you stabbed very hard (or like the knives i had round my aunt's house for x-mas. they were metal but they had NO teeth on them at all. it was just a curve of metal, like butter knives. and we were expected to cut turkey and beef steaks with them xD go figure...)

 

but sporks have points on part of it o.o even if you stab someone in the hand or leg that'll do damage. but y'know, just about anything is dangerous. you just need to know how to use it. it falls down to decades of training or simply panicked spur of the moment action...

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also the fact that it's never technically over. it doesn't matter if it's the/a government or terrorists, at the end of the day there will always be a continous threat. because it is a plan and an ideal, it can't be stopped unless you completely crush them

 

Bush assumed this mindset and you can see how far down the political ****ter it took this country.

 

as the original people grow older and/or die, others will take their place. you can't win. THAT'S why we talk about it. we want to know who did it and why. if we find that out, we can make sure it doesn't happen again.

 

if it was terrorists, we can find out exactly who was responsible and who funded them and stop the processes. if it was a government we can weed out all those responsible and crush the plot.

 

Al Qaeda publicly assumed full responsibility. If you think they were put up to that by someone else, then you really don't understand them.

 

i think the conspiracy theorists are just worried that the american government did it, and as a result they no longer feel safe in their country.

 

I think it's more like they want the government to be responsible because they don't think Muslim extremists could ever hope to get as far as they did.

 

also plastic sporks are good weapons in any sense. even something blunt can do damage... it's not like a plastic knife. the only way you could do damage is if you stabbed very hard

 

but sporks have points on part of it o.o even if you stab someone in the hand or leg that'll do damage. but y'know, just about anything is dangerous.

 

Very dull points that are on VERY flimsy and short tines. Unless you went for the eyes, you can't stab deep enough to do real damage. If you DO want to stab someone with a spork that badly, you'd break off the lower part so all you have is a jagged handle. Which could be a weapon. But the point is, plastic sporks the way they are just aren't that dangerous.

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Al Qaeda publicly assumed full responsibility. If you think they were put up to that by someone else, then you really don't understand them.

Why wouldn't they assume full responsibility? They want to create fear through intimidation, anyone could have done it and they just claim responsibility, Al Quaeda would be believed over any small terrorist organization because people would assume that Al Quaeda has the time to plan this out, the people to carry out the plans, and the motive to carry it all out

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I only mentioned that to him because people like Bly, especially, seem to think our govt. paid them or something.

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we can settle that it was a terrorist organization and the 9/11 debate is over

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